Navigating honesty and neediness in relationships
June 28, 2021 3:10 PM Subscribe
So, I am kind of stumped: How can I be honest about emotions that are (or appear to be?) signs of neediness?
I have recently entered into a new relationship and am confronted with feelings of insecurity I haven't felt for awhile. Part of this is good, I think, as it shows I am opening myself up to the possibility of being hurt, which accompanies entering into a serious relationship.
Generally speaking, I think I try to be a kind and generous person, although I certainly also fall into the trap of being a 'nice guy', i.e. swallowing my own feelings in order to avoid conflict. I have come to realise that this behaviour not only doesn't make me happy in the long-run, but is also very dishonest. So, I would like to be a kind and generous person who does not eschew conflict and stands by his thoughts, emotions, and needs whilst being attentive to those of others.
Needless to say, this is very difficult. There are likely many reasons for this, but I think this behaviour runs so deep for me because, growing up, my whole family was very conflict-averse/there was no room to express how one really feels about something etc.
Still, I want to try of course! Which leads me to my current predicament:
I am a few months into a relationship, after being friends for a number of months before that. For the most part, our relationship has been going well. She has recently been sick with various relatively minor illnesses and has had a difficult time getting back to feeling healthy. I've tried to support her where I could out of concern for her.
She is slowly doing better now, but the time I cared for her has unbalanced our relationship a bit, even though we have become much closer over this time period too. I'm having a difficult time letting go of my worry for her, which may now come across as being a bit overbearing. I'm having a difficult time disentangling her frustration with not getting better (which I empathise with deeply) from my own (selfish) frustration that this is drawing us apart. Of course, I recognize that this has less to do with the actual situation and more with the fact that my insecurities have been triggered. We've talked about this and she understands that this isn't my 'normal' behaviour, but a result of the situation we found ourselves in. I am trying to take responsibility for these emotions of mine by working on lessening my anxiety without leaning too much on her for support.
So far so good, but I'm having a difficult time being honest about my emotions as I try to work on myself/take responsibility for these emotions. For instance, we saw each other the other day and went for a walk. She was still feeling a bit run-down and I wasn't too talkative either, seeing as I'm trying to deal with these emotions, which is quite draining. After heading back to her place, we laid together on her bed. She didn't pay me much attention, browsing on her phone instead.
Had I wanted to honestly express my emotions, I would have said: "I feel slightly ignored and would appreciate more attention for myself and our relationship" (by which I mean talking to each other a bit more, acknowledging the other's presence, showing some affection). I did not express these emotions because they are precisely the emotions I am trying to take responsibility for, not making her responsible for them.
This then finally brings me to my actual question: I would like to be honest about what is going on inside me, but I feel as though I can't without falling into the trap of being needy/placing too much of an onus on her when it's obviously fine if you are less attentive to your partner at times, especially when you aren't feeling well. On the other hand, I worry that I am being dishonest about my emotions and falling back into a pattern of conflict-avoidance and 'nice guy' role-play. Reflecting on all this, I felt a pang in my chest as I was laying beside her, unsure when I should deal with my own issues and when I should open up. It feels quite painful to not be able to talk about this with her, particularly when she likely senses that I'm feeling a bit off. What do I say when she asks me what's wrong?
(I also feel very guilty about all this, because her health problems are obviously more important and pressing than these insecurities of mine. Then again, that is what a nice guy would say.. I feel as though I am loosing my sense of self over this.)
Interestingly, a lot of advice on vulnerability and neediness doesn't really address this situation. You are asked to be vulnerable and expect nothing in return (how would that work in my situation?). You are asked to be honest about your emotions and to take responsibility for them (again, being honest about how I feel would reveal that I am not taking responsibility for my emotions).
So, here I am, stumped, and would really appreciate any (general) advice on how others have learnt to navigate this space of vulnerability in relationships!
I have recently entered into a new relationship and am confronted with feelings of insecurity I haven't felt for awhile. Part of this is good, I think, as it shows I am opening myself up to the possibility of being hurt, which accompanies entering into a serious relationship.
Generally speaking, I think I try to be a kind and generous person, although I certainly also fall into the trap of being a 'nice guy', i.e. swallowing my own feelings in order to avoid conflict. I have come to realise that this behaviour not only doesn't make me happy in the long-run, but is also very dishonest. So, I would like to be a kind and generous person who does not eschew conflict and stands by his thoughts, emotions, and needs whilst being attentive to those of others.
Needless to say, this is very difficult. There are likely many reasons for this, but I think this behaviour runs so deep for me because, growing up, my whole family was very conflict-averse/there was no room to express how one really feels about something etc.
Still, I want to try of course! Which leads me to my current predicament:
I am a few months into a relationship, after being friends for a number of months before that. For the most part, our relationship has been going well. She has recently been sick with various relatively minor illnesses and has had a difficult time getting back to feeling healthy. I've tried to support her where I could out of concern for her.
She is slowly doing better now, but the time I cared for her has unbalanced our relationship a bit, even though we have become much closer over this time period too. I'm having a difficult time letting go of my worry for her, which may now come across as being a bit overbearing. I'm having a difficult time disentangling her frustration with not getting better (which I empathise with deeply) from my own (selfish) frustration that this is drawing us apart. Of course, I recognize that this has less to do with the actual situation and more with the fact that my insecurities have been triggered. We've talked about this and she understands that this isn't my 'normal' behaviour, but a result of the situation we found ourselves in. I am trying to take responsibility for these emotions of mine by working on lessening my anxiety without leaning too much on her for support.
So far so good, but I'm having a difficult time being honest about my emotions as I try to work on myself/take responsibility for these emotions. For instance, we saw each other the other day and went for a walk. She was still feeling a bit run-down and I wasn't too talkative either, seeing as I'm trying to deal with these emotions, which is quite draining. After heading back to her place, we laid together on her bed. She didn't pay me much attention, browsing on her phone instead.
Had I wanted to honestly express my emotions, I would have said: "I feel slightly ignored and would appreciate more attention for myself and our relationship" (by which I mean talking to each other a bit more, acknowledging the other's presence, showing some affection). I did not express these emotions because they are precisely the emotions I am trying to take responsibility for, not making her responsible for them.
This then finally brings me to my actual question: I would like to be honest about what is going on inside me, but I feel as though I can't without falling into the trap of being needy/placing too much of an onus on her when it's obviously fine if you are less attentive to your partner at times, especially when you aren't feeling well. On the other hand, I worry that I am being dishonest about my emotions and falling back into a pattern of conflict-avoidance and 'nice guy' role-play. Reflecting on all this, I felt a pang in my chest as I was laying beside her, unsure when I should deal with my own issues and when I should open up. It feels quite painful to not be able to talk about this with her, particularly when she likely senses that I'm feeling a bit off. What do I say when she asks me what's wrong?
(I also feel very guilty about all this, because her health problems are obviously more important and pressing than these insecurities of mine. Then again, that is what a nice guy would say.. I feel as though I am loosing my sense of self over this.)
Interestingly, a lot of advice on vulnerability and neediness doesn't really address this situation. You are asked to be vulnerable and expect nothing in return (how would that work in my situation?). You are asked to be honest about your emotions and to take responsibility for them (again, being honest about how I feel would reveal that I am not taking responsibility for my emotions).
So, here I am, stumped, and would really appreciate any (general) advice on how others have learnt to navigate this space of vulnerability in relationships!
This is a lot of emotions for a new relationship. I applaud the amount of work you're willing to do on yourself, but at the same time you're doing a lot of work when you're both still in the very early stages of getting to know each other.
You sound like you're in your head a lot and it's making you very anxious and upset. This self-awareness isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems as though you're letting it spiral and churn instead of processing it. It shows particularly in that moment you described when you were both lying on the bed together and you were having a small internal crisis while she was relaxing on her phone -- no wonder you feel drained, you're clearly finding it hard to just chill out and be in the moment and enjoy your relationship.
Honestly, this sounds like something you need to talk about with someone who isn't involved with you (not your new girlfriend), who can give you frank and honest advice on how to interrupt these thought patterns and make use of what you're feeling. Do you have a therapist? This would be a good time to find one.
posted by fight or flight at 3:24 PM on June 28, 2021 [16 favorites]
You sound like you're in your head a lot and it's making you very anxious and upset. This self-awareness isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems as though you're letting it spiral and churn instead of processing it. It shows particularly in that moment you described when you were both lying on the bed together and you were having a small internal crisis while she was relaxing on her phone -- no wonder you feel drained, you're clearly finding it hard to just chill out and be in the moment and enjoy your relationship.
Honestly, this sounds like something you need to talk about with someone who isn't involved with you (not your new girlfriend), who can give you frank and honest advice on how to interrupt these thought patterns and make use of what you're feeling. Do you have a therapist? This would be a good time to find one.
posted by fight or flight at 3:24 PM on June 28, 2021 [16 favorites]
It just sounds like bad timing for a relationship. Just break up or open it up and see other people IMO, if you are that unhappy. IME men sometimes try to force the current women they’re seeing into a mold that makes them happier when they honestly should just move on and keep looking (women do this too but are less reluctant to just break up for whatever reason.) Go back to being friends and if it happens later, it happens.
posted by stockpuppet at 3:43 PM on June 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by stockpuppet at 3:43 PM on June 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
There is a lot here, but I wanted to say that "I feel like I'm being ignored" is using a feelings-sentence to not describe an actual feeling. Event: you're laying in bed, browsing phones. Interpretation: I'm being ignored. Feeling: sad, lonely, anxious, angry, whatever. Like use feeling sentences to describe actual emotions, not interpretations of events, "I feel lonely that we're lying here not talking." Or even, internally, 'i feel lonely', to your partner- "hey, wanna hear this ridiculous knock knock joke? So ...." It comes off as manipulative to do it the way you did it, even though that is probably not your intention. (And- a lot of people do this-- so not to make you feel bad about it.)
posted by erattacorrige at 3:48 PM on June 28, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 3:48 PM on June 28, 2021 [39 favorites]
The advice here is all very good, but in my experience, the relationships where I had to tiptoe around and say the perfect "I" statement and be conscious of taking responsibility for my neediness just never worked. The only ones that worked were the ones where we've been so confident of each other's utter enthrallment in the other that we could say in a type of situation like where one was just scrolling on the phone and the other was feeling lonely, "Pay attention to me right this very minute because I need 1000% of your divine attention immediately!" YMMV.
posted by ojocaliente at 3:55 PM on June 28, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by ojocaliente at 3:55 PM on June 28, 2021 [30 favorites]
There is a lot here, but I wanted to say that "I feel like I'm being ignored" is using a feelings-sentence to not describe an actual feeling.
Yes, this. When a friend taught me that whenever I say, "I feel..." the next word out of my mouth must be an adjective (lonely, angry, embarrassed, disappointed, frustrated), it totally transformed how those sorts of relational conversations went. "I feel like..." isn't actually an I statement as we are taught to understand them and whatever follows (like I'm being neglected, like you're not listening, like you're misunderstanding me) typically isn't going to lead anywhere productive.
So I've been in relationships where lying there while my partner silently scrolled on their phone triggered an internal meltdown because in retrospect I can clearly see I wasn't getting most of my larger needs met in the relationship, so of course I felt crappy and alone. And I've been in other relationships where I might have felt a bit bored lying there beside the phone-scroller but so secure with them in every other way that I felt completely comfortable saying something or I got up and found something else to do and either way it wasn't remotely a big deal. It's interesting you say you haven't felt this level of insecurity in awhile, is it being in a relationship that's triggering it or is it something to do with this relationship in particular?
posted by anderjen at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
Yes, this. When a friend taught me that whenever I say, "I feel..." the next word out of my mouth must be an adjective (lonely, angry, embarrassed, disappointed, frustrated), it totally transformed how those sorts of relational conversations went. "I feel like..." isn't actually an I statement as we are taught to understand them and whatever follows (like I'm being neglected, like you're not listening, like you're misunderstanding me) typically isn't going to lead anywhere productive.
So I've been in relationships where lying there while my partner silently scrolled on their phone triggered an internal meltdown because in retrospect I can clearly see I wasn't getting most of my larger needs met in the relationship, so of course I felt crappy and alone. And I've been in other relationships where I might have felt a bit bored lying there beside the phone-scroller but so secure with them in every other way that I felt completely comfortable saying something or I got up and found something else to do and either way it wasn't remotely a big deal. It's interesting you say you haven't felt this level of insecurity in awhile, is it being in a relationship that's triggering it or is it something to do with this relationship in particular?
posted by anderjen at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2021 [23 favorites]
In a situation like that, I would make what they call a bid for attention. Offer a conversational gambit. Suggest an activity. Touch her (at a level appropriate to your current physical intimacy). This is not the same as explicitly saying, "Hey! Let's engage with each other!", but it's what most people actually do to get that across.
(Now, if she doesn't seem to take you up on these bids, or is actively rejecting them, that may be a sign that she's not that invested in the relationship.)
posted by praemunire at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2021 [16 favorites]
(Now, if she doesn't seem to take you up on these bids, or is actively rejecting them, that may be a sign that she's not that invested in the relationship.)
posted by praemunire at 4:21 PM on June 28, 2021 [16 favorites]
Out of curiosity, how much does she make statements about her needs and wants? In the example you gave, did she say "hey, that walk kinda tired me out and now I just feel like zoning out on my phone"? Or did she just start doing that without saying anything, ignoring you in the process? If the latter, I'd say that's not great for 2-months into a relationship. You're in the early days when enthusiasm should be consistently pretty high, and generally if it isn't, people make a point of communicating why that is to their partner - i.e. "It's not you, I'm just still not 100% better." I think a reasonable request would be to ask that she let you know when she just needs to rest so you don't have to have this internal anxiety conversation with yourself over whether it's something you've done (not that you shouldn't work on that).
posted by coffeecat at 5:00 PM on June 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 5:00 PM on June 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Wow, I feel both like I could have written parts of this question (the worries about the line between vulnerability and neediness ring true for me) and like I’m in your girlfriend’s shoes in some way (I’ve been in a relationship for a little over a year and have had several health issues in that time, during which my boyfriend has been incredibly supportive).
From the perspective of the one with the health issues (although I don’t know how serious your gf’s are, so my experience may not translate well): I have felt sad when partners have told me they’ve withheld sharing their feelings because they thought I was going through something worse than they were. My feeling about this is that I’m dating a whole person, not a caretaker or a parent - I want to know how they feel, even if the thing that’s making them feel bad is rooted in my health issue.
With respect to wording: I agree with ojocaliente. My bf and I try to assume best intent when we share feedback with each other, which reduces some of the pressure of wording things perfectly to avoid any hint of accusation or sounding manipulative. If my bf were to tell me “I feel like you’re ignoring me”, I’d honestly be kind of excited to have that data and feedback to figure out how to be a better partner, even if it might be hard for me to hear. Is “I feel lonely” less accusatory? Sure, but as long as it’s not a pattern, I’d personally rather hear “I feel like you’re ignoring me” than hear nothing at all. (If it became a pattern, I’d eventually ask my bf to please consider his wording a bit more carefully because I do want to continue hearing his feedback but he might not realize it’s coming off harsh, etc. But it’s more important to me given our respective backgrounds, anxieties, and current situation to have an open channel of communication with minimal expectations around specific language.)
A few things that worked well for us at that stage of our relationship, in case they work for you too:
- Having a check-in time (I like once a month) where there’s an explicit recognition that it’s a good time to bring up feelings or feedback that you haven’t felt that you had a good time to share otherwise
- Thanking each other explicitly for courage and vulnerability whenever we have been honest about our feelings or shared difficult feedback!
- Going to therapy to work on things myself as my #1 responsibility...
-...and also valuing the connection we get when we share our emotions, which means that sometimes I take a risk and share something that in the end I realize isn’t really his problem and is instead something I should discuss in therapy, but it didn’t hurt to have shared it.
It’s a grey area, and the way that I handle the “is this vulnerability or neediness” question is to trust my bf to tell me if he does not want to or cannot help with a certain issue, and also trusting myself to decide which things I want to work on alone and which are important to share with him.
posted by chaiyai at 5:06 PM on June 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
From the perspective of the one with the health issues (although I don’t know how serious your gf’s are, so my experience may not translate well): I have felt sad when partners have told me they’ve withheld sharing their feelings because they thought I was going through something worse than they were. My feeling about this is that I’m dating a whole person, not a caretaker or a parent - I want to know how they feel, even if the thing that’s making them feel bad is rooted in my health issue.
With respect to wording: I agree with ojocaliente. My bf and I try to assume best intent when we share feedback with each other, which reduces some of the pressure of wording things perfectly to avoid any hint of accusation or sounding manipulative. If my bf were to tell me “I feel like you’re ignoring me”, I’d honestly be kind of excited to have that data and feedback to figure out how to be a better partner, even if it might be hard for me to hear. Is “I feel lonely” less accusatory? Sure, but as long as it’s not a pattern, I’d personally rather hear “I feel like you’re ignoring me” than hear nothing at all. (If it became a pattern, I’d eventually ask my bf to please consider his wording a bit more carefully because I do want to continue hearing his feedback but he might not realize it’s coming off harsh, etc. But it’s more important to me given our respective backgrounds, anxieties, and current situation to have an open channel of communication with minimal expectations around specific language.)
A few things that worked well for us at that stage of our relationship, in case they work for you too:
- Having a check-in time (I like once a month) where there’s an explicit recognition that it’s a good time to bring up feelings or feedback that you haven’t felt that you had a good time to share otherwise
- Thanking each other explicitly for courage and vulnerability whenever we have been honest about our feelings or shared difficult feedback!
- Going to therapy to work on things myself as my #1 responsibility...
-...and also valuing the connection we get when we share our emotions, which means that sometimes I take a risk and share something that in the end I realize isn’t really his problem and is instead something I should discuss in therapy, but it didn’t hurt to have shared it.
It’s a grey area, and the way that I handle the “is this vulnerability or neediness” question is to trust my bf to tell me if he does not want to or cannot help with a certain issue, and also trusting myself to decide which things I want to work on alone and which are important to share with him.
posted by chaiyai at 5:06 PM on June 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
The example you gave is interesting. It's possible she might have just been relaxing and comfortable with you and thought that it was okay to look at her phone. (I think that's not unreasonable, even though I personally try to avoid my phone when I'm hanging out with someone.) But there also might be this anxious-avoidant dynamic between you, where the more "needy" you are, the more she feels the need to pull away in some way (as in looking at her phone instead of talking to you), and you were sensing that. If I were in that situation, I might either try to start a conversation or gently ask if the other person needs some alone time. If you do feel anxious when she needs more space, you might not be the best match.
posted by pinochiette at 5:16 PM on June 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 5:16 PM on June 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh gosh. Okay I sympathize. But bleep is 1000% right, that is the tone here. You do not get to ask for closeness from your partner. That's a violation of her boundaries. Your job is to take a step towards them. You create closeness by bringing your energy and doing and saying things. Vulnerability means just doing something or saying something. You want closeness, reach out. You want a hug, hug her. You probably feel like you're not allowed, you'd be intruding, you don't want to presume... those thoughts only set you up to never do any of the work in your relationship.
Vulernabilty does not, not, not mean spilling your emotions and telling your partner that you feel needy and insecure and unhappy. That's dumping your problems into her lap and asking her to fix them for you. It's manipulative and a form of emotional abuse. This is a discussion for you and your therapist, not with her. Like yes it's normal for partners to offer some degree of emotional support for one another about problems in their lives. But these emotions you're experiencing are all about wanting to be taken care of. If you center these emotions in your relationship with her you will harm her.
Taking responsibility for your emotions also does not mean sitting there and stewing and not talking about them at all while they grow and grow. That's actually another form of abuse, because when you go silent like that, you're dumping your emotions on your partner's lap in a more covert way - by being increasingly uncomfortable around her until she is forced to respond.
What taking responsibility actually looks like is setting boundaries with her and with yourself, figuring out what you need, and doing whatever it takes for you to be present and attentive with your partner, and setting realistic expectations with her and then meeting them. It's implied when you enter a partnership that you will turn up for your partner reliably, in the same way that when you take a job you turn up to work every day. You don't ever dump emotional problems on your coworker's or boss's laps, you turn up and meet whatever challenges are there. Relationships are the same.
I think these emotions are showing up because you have no plan and no goals and no ideas of your own. That's the 'nice guy' syndrome, we learn to suppress ourselves and seek approval. All you know how to do is seek approval and when it doesn't come you feel more and more desperate. You have to unpack this and get over yourself. But the most important thing is to figure out what you want and do it. You want a close bond? You want cuddles on the sofa, a romantic evening? Make it happen. You want stimulating conversation? Say something. Stop thinking, stop obsessing, don't ever think when you could be talking, just open your mouth and start talking. The cure for these emotions is action. It's your agency.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:40 PM on June 28, 2021 [31 favorites]
Vulernabilty does not, not, not mean spilling your emotions and telling your partner that you feel needy and insecure and unhappy. That's dumping your problems into her lap and asking her to fix them for you. It's manipulative and a form of emotional abuse. This is a discussion for you and your therapist, not with her. Like yes it's normal for partners to offer some degree of emotional support for one another about problems in their lives. But these emotions you're experiencing are all about wanting to be taken care of. If you center these emotions in your relationship with her you will harm her.
Taking responsibility for your emotions also does not mean sitting there and stewing and not talking about them at all while they grow and grow. That's actually another form of abuse, because when you go silent like that, you're dumping your emotions on your partner's lap in a more covert way - by being increasingly uncomfortable around her until she is forced to respond.
What taking responsibility actually looks like is setting boundaries with her and with yourself, figuring out what you need, and doing whatever it takes for you to be present and attentive with your partner, and setting realistic expectations with her and then meeting them. It's implied when you enter a partnership that you will turn up for your partner reliably, in the same way that when you take a job you turn up to work every day. You don't ever dump emotional problems on your coworker's or boss's laps, you turn up and meet whatever challenges are there. Relationships are the same.
I think these emotions are showing up because you have no plan and no goals and no ideas of your own. That's the 'nice guy' syndrome, we learn to suppress ourselves and seek approval. All you know how to do is seek approval and when it doesn't come you feel more and more desperate. You have to unpack this and get over yourself. But the most important thing is to figure out what you want and do it. You want a close bond? You want cuddles on the sofa, a romantic evening? Make it happen. You want stimulating conversation? Say something. Stop thinking, stop obsessing, don't ever think when you could be talking, just open your mouth and start talking. The cure for these emotions is action. It's your agency.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:40 PM on June 28, 2021 [31 favorites]
You use the word "needy" like it is bad thing that you have to manage on all on your own.
Human being are full of needs, it is nature of being alive.
There is nothing wrong or bad about you having needs. The trick is that your partner is also a human with needs of their own.
I have needs. My partner loves and cares about me so when I need something, it matters to him. I expect that - it is part of being in partnership to care about the other person. However, he has needs too. So we do this dance. I let him know when I'm feeling a need and he lets me know how available he meet my need - depending of course on his.
So, if he is looking at his phone, I might say
- I'm getting a little bored, do you want to do something together or should I go do my own project. (I tend to use this when either answer is OK with me)
or
- Hey, are you available to talk or are you in the middle of something? (This is usually fairly neutral - he knows I want to talk but he also knows from experience that if he says he's busy, I won't get upset. Usually it invites a compromise from him - like let me finish this and then we can do that.
0r
- Hey, I'm here too, can we talk (this one signals higher need - he might still say not right now but I'm putting out there that I have a strong preference. But he can still say, "I'm tired" "I need to deal with this" and I'll know that I need to deal with my feelings on my own in that moment"
or
- Just start talking (a bid for attention). However, I've learned that for my very specific partner, he has his own need not to be yanked out his thoughts - it might work great for most folks but he would rather I ask for attention and wait until I get it before I start chattering.
My point is that I may not end up getting my needs met in the moment but I let my partner know that I'm wanting attention. Now that he knows, if it works for him, I get it and if it doesn't he gets to tell me. Even if the answer is no, knowing why not really helps - that he's really tired or he's dealing with a work email or whatever it is so I don't have to imagine (since my imagination tends towards the idea he's not paying attention because he doesn't care so more information really helps me)
posted by metahawk at 7:08 PM on June 28, 2021 [17 favorites]
Human being are full of needs, it is nature of being alive.
There is nothing wrong or bad about you having needs. The trick is that your partner is also a human with needs of their own.
I have needs. My partner loves and cares about me so when I need something, it matters to him. I expect that - it is part of being in partnership to care about the other person. However, he has needs too. So we do this dance. I let him know when I'm feeling a need and he lets me know how available he meet my need - depending of course on his.
So, if he is looking at his phone, I might say
- I'm getting a little bored, do you want to do something together or should I go do my own project. (I tend to use this when either answer is OK with me)
or
- Hey, are you available to talk or are you in the middle of something? (This is usually fairly neutral - he knows I want to talk but he also knows from experience that if he says he's busy, I won't get upset. Usually it invites a compromise from him - like let me finish this and then we can do that.
0r
- Hey, I'm here too, can we talk (this one signals higher need - he might still say not right now but I'm putting out there that I have a strong preference. But he can still say, "I'm tired" "I need to deal with this" and I'll know that I need to deal with my feelings on my own in that moment"
or
- Just start talking (a bid for attention). However, I've learned that for my very specific partner, he has his own need not to be yanked out his thoughts - it might work great for most folks but he would rather I ask for attention and wait until I get it before I start chattering.
My point is that I may not end up getting my needs met in the moment but I let my partner know that I'm wanting attention. Now that he knows, if it works for him, I get it and if it doesn't he gets to tell me. Even if the answer is no, knowing why not really helps - that he's really tired or he's dealing with a work email or whatever it is so I don't have to imagine (since my imagination tends towards the idea he's not paying attention because he doesn't care so more information really helps me)
posted by metahawk at 7:08 PM on June 28, 2021 [17 favorites]
I wanted to say that "I feel like I'm being ignored" is using a feelings-sentence to not describe an actual feeling.
TEN time yes.
This is a pattern I hear frequently from many people and the sheer degree of point-missing involved can leave me literally shaking and grinding my teeth in frustration.
Nobody else knows what being ignored feels like to you. "I feel like I'm being ignored" communicates no information.
If you're lying on a bed with somebody and they're browsing on their phone and you want to be closer to them, the most effective thing you can do is get closer. Roll over a bit and snuggle up and stick your nose in the back of their hair and be there instead of rattling around inside the echoing caverns of your own head.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 PM on June 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
TEN time yes.
This is a pattern I hear frequently from many people and the sheer degree of point-missing involved can leave me literally shaking and grinding my teeth in frustration.
Nobody else knows what being ignored feels like to you. "I feel like I'm being ignored" communicates no information.
If you're lying on a bed with somebody and they're browsing on their phone and you want to be closer to them, the most effective thing you can do is get closer. Roll over a bit and snuggle up and stick your nose in the back of their hair and be there instead of rattling around inside the echoing caverns of your own head.
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 PM on June 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
It's not needy to state your values, and when those values aren't being honored.
Had I wanted to honestly express my emotions, I would have said: "I feel slightly ignored and would appreciate more attention for myself and our relationship" (by which I mean talking to each other a bit more, acknowledging the other's presence, showing some affection). I did not express these emotions because they are precisely the emotions I am trying to take responsibility for, not making her responsible for them.
This is quite nicely put. That entire package is getting close to a values statement that one arrives at in the course of acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). You may find some value in exploring a self-directed bit of ACT (this workbook is a good one that I recommend to people pretty routinely), in part because there's a focus within it of articulating your deepest capital-V Values. I also say this to you because, from what you've written, I recognize some of me in you. I was married for more than a decade to a map who I loved very deeply. I didn't realize until we split up, though, that there were "red flags" visible to my friends (and, eventually, to the therapist I sought out after my divorce) that could be articulated very much like what you wrote above. In particular, I can now articulate that I deeply (fundamentally!) value being prioritized in an intimate relationship. As in, there's only so much of looking at my partner's face while his eyes and attention are averted to the smartphone in his hands before I start to feel like I would rather be anywhere but in that situation.
Now, when I'm around someone I'm interested in, if a smartphone pops up more than casually while I'm around, I'll excuse myself. It's as simple as that. I don't need to explain myself beyond, hey, you're busy, and I've got things to do. If that person is curious enough to ask about it--in the moment, later, whenever--I'm happy to put the experience into words: I really value "quality time," and sharing space with a smartphone/social media/being around you while I'm being ignored gives me a pretty strong signal to take my own attention elsewhere.
It feels remarkable to be able to articulate these things. I'm glad I've had the experiences I've had in part because they've gotten me to a point where I can articulate them.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 12:49 AM on June 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
Had I wanted to honestly express my emotions, I would have said: "I feel slightly ignored and would appreciate more attention for myself and our relationship" (by which I mean talking to each other a bit more, acknowledging the other's presence, showing some affection). I did not express these emotions because they are precisely the emotions I am trying to take responsibility for, not making her responsible for them.
This is quite nicely put. That entire package is getting close to a values statement that one arrives at in the course of acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). You may find some value in exploring a self-directed bit of ACT (this workbook is a good one that I recommend to people pretty routinely), in part because there's a focus within it of articulating your deepest capital-V Values. I also say this to you because, from what you've written, I recognize some of me in you. I was married for more than a decade to a map who I loved very deeply. I didn't realize until we split up, though, that there were "red flags" visible to my friends (and, eventually, to the therapist I sought out after my divorce) that could be articulated very much like what you wrote above. In particular, I can now articulate that I deeply (fundamentally!) value being prioritized in an intimate relationship. As in, there's only so much of looking at my partner's face while his eyes and attention are averted to the smartphone in his hands before I start to feel like I would rather be anywhere but in that situation.
Now, when I'm around someone I'm interested in, if a smartphone pops up more than casually while I'm around, I'll excuse myself. It's as simple as that. I don't need to explain myself beyond, hey, you're busy, and I've got things to do. If that person is curious enough to ask about it--in the moment, later, whenever--I'm happy to put the experience into words: I really value "quality time," and sharing space with a smartphone/social media/being around you while I'm being ignored gives me a pretty strong signal to take my own attention elsewhere.
It feels remarkable to be able to articulate these things. I'm glad I've had the experiences I've had in part because they've gotten me to a point where I can articulate them.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 12:49 AM on June 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
metahawk's example is great — it's certainly not needy to be honest about what you're feeling. If you don't make your internal world known to your partner, you're not really showing up. And if you're not really present, then you're not really there to be loved, right?
Taking responsibility isn't about not having needs, it's about realising that other people don't exist to meet your needs all the time — that there are times when your partner can't or worn't meet your needs, and that when that happens you're able to take care of yourself. But shutting down isn't it the answer.
If you want to, I think it's definitely a topic worth exploring through therapy, but you can learn a lot and do a lot without that.
This account on IG has a truckload of great little explainers for people trying to navigate relationship insecurity. The content is produced by a licensed relationship therapist and is full of tips for navigating your exact kind of issue without falling into negative cycles: https://www.instagram.com/thesecurerelationship/
posted by eek at 6:11 AM on June 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Taking responsibility isn't about not having needs, it's about realising that other people don't exist to meet your needs all the time — that there are times when your partner can't or worn't meet your needs, and that when that happens you're able to take care of yourself. But shutting down isn't it the answer.
If you want to, I think it's definitely a topic worth exploring through therapy, but you can learn a lot and do a lot without that.
This account on IG has a truckload of great little explainers for people trying to navigate relationship insecurity. The content is produced by a licensed relationship therapist and is full of tips for navigating your exact kind of issue without falling into negative cycles: https://www.instagram.com/thesecurerelationship/
posted by eek at 6:11 AM on June 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you're lying on a bed with somebody and they're browsing on their phone and you want to be closer to them, the most effective thing you can do is get closer. Roll over a bit and snuggle up and stick your nose in the back of their hair and be there instead of rattling around inside the echoing caverns of your own head.
I want to second this, especially if you're a guy who knows he is struggling with nice guy syndrome. Do not let the current cultural norms for sexuality, relationships, and especially the undercurrents of porn and all its corrupting influences, to destroy your capacity to humanize your own sexuality, especially in the context of a similar-aged guy-girl relationship.
Our modern culture still does not acknowledge how powerful and intimate the act of skin-to-skin contact is, and it sure seems to especially deny it to men. What has become "porn" here in modern times has just about destroyed all hope of intimacy among adults because it has worked so well to take healthy expressions of sex and masquerade them as if all expressions of physical and sexual intimacy exist solely for the purpose of gratifying perverted denigrating lust.
If you know you're a nice guy, and you're already trying so hard not to bother or overwhelm your partner with your own needs, or especially to not be like those men who do use their sex in an intimidating and self-serving manner, consider this a challenge to all men in modern times: learn to lean in to physical intimacy while maintaining a humanized sexuality. By humanized sexuality, I simply mean explicit conscious acknowledgement and enjoyment of physical and sexual intimacy, that does not regress into dehumanizing and emotionally isolating use of each other's bodies.
You don't know yet, you might have actually been sitting there, missing her cue for physical intimacy, and because you were so knotted up inside your emotional caverns so to speak, you missed both your authentic need for connection and her (albeit covert) bid for intimacy. If you know that you would have respected her boundaries had you leaned in and she reacted uncomfortably, however subtly, then I say next time take a chance. You can always apologize for misreading the signals, her body language, etc. Push come to shove, without more assertive communication, you'll never know. Do consider this part of the personal work you may need to unpack as your further navigate recovery from nice guy syndrome.
Source info: from a heterosexual woman who loved and imagines still when her late partner would approach her from behind, wrap his arms around her, and press his face into her hair, as though he had never held anything more comforting and soothing to him before in his life. It saddens me still how much he seemed ashamed of and obviously felt he had to hide this feeling, which actually had powerful soothing momentum for us both.
posted by human ecologist at 9:56 AM on June 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
I want to second this, especially if you're a guy who knows he is struggling with nice guy syndrome. Do not let the current cultural norms for sexuality, relationships, and especially the undercurrents of porn and all its corrupting influences, to destroy your capacity to humanize your own sexuality, especially in the context of a similar-aged guy-girl relationship.
Our modern culture still does not acknowledge how powerful and intimate the act of skin-to-skin contact is, and it sure seems to especially deny it to men. What has become "porn" here in modern times has just about destroyed all hope of intimacy among adults because it has worked so well to take healthy expressions of sex and masquerade them as if all expressions of physical and sexual intimacy exist solely for the purpose of gratifying perverted denigrating lust.
If you know you're a nice guy, and you're already trying so hard not to bother or overwhelm your partner with your own needs, or especially to not be like those men who do use their sex in an intimidating and self-serving manner, consider this a challenge to all men in modern times: learn to lean in to physical intimacy while maintaining a humanized sexuality. By humanized sexuality, I simply mean explicit conscious acknowledgement and enjoyment of physical and sexual intimacy, that does not regress into dehumanizing and emotionally isolating use of each other's bodies.
You don't know yet, you might have actually been sitting there, missing her cue for physical intimacy, and because you were so knotted up inside your emotional caverns so to speak, you missed both your authentic need for connection and her (albeit covert) bid for intimacy. If you know that you would have respected her boundaries had you leaned in and she reacted uncomfortably, however subtly, then I say next time take a chance. You can always apologize for misreading the signals, her body language, etc. Push come to shove, without more assertive communication, you'll never know. Do consider this part of the personal work you may need to unpack as your further navigate recovery from nice guy syndrome.
Source info: from a heterosexual woman who loved and imagines still when her late partner would approach her from behind, wrap his arms around her, and press his face into her hair, as though he had never held anything more comforting and soothing to him before in his life. It saddens me still how much he seemed ashamed of and obviously felt he had to hide this feeling, which actually had powerful soothing momentum for us both.
posted by human ecologist at 9:56 AM on June 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
Had I wanted to honestly express my emotions, I would have said: "I feel slightly ignored and would appreciate more attention for myself and our relationship" (by which I mean talking to each other a bit more, acknowledging the other's presence, showing some affection). I did not express these emotions because they are precisely the emotions I am trying to take responsibility for, not making her responsible for them.
I don't think this is about expressing your emotions. As others have noted, that statement involves blame -- it states that your partner is ignoring you and thus the relationship. That's a pretty big statement! I think this is about asking for what you want. It sounds like you wanted some attention, maybe to have a turn at talking. You said you didn't talk a lot on the walk. It could have been your partner felt you weren't super engaged.
Regardless, I do think communicating more is great. I don't think framing this as expressing emotions is always and necessarily the way to go.
You know what might have worked? A request, a bid for attention, as someone else put it. "Hey, can we talk a bit more?" "Hey, can we cuddle and chat?" Something like that.
I also want to echo that it's good to turn to others for support about your partner's illness and recovery.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:13 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is about expressing your emotions. As others have noted, that statement involves blame -- it states that your partner is ignoring you and thus the relationship. That's a pretty big statement! I think this is about asking for what you want. It sounds like you wanted some attention, maybe to have a turn at talking. You said you didn't talk a lot on the walk. It could have been your partner felt you weren't super engaged.
Regardless, I do think communicating more is great. I don't think framing this as expressing emotions is always and necessarily the way to go.
You know what might have worked? A request, a bid for attention, as someone else put it. "Hey, can we talk a bit more?" "Hey, can we cuddle and chat?" Something like that.
I also want to echo that it's good to turn to others for support about your partner's illness and recovery.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:13 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just because you’re having an emotion, doesn’t make it her issue to solve. Why are you making your girlfriend the cruise director of your relationship? By that, I mean, why is the onus on her to take action and figure out what you want and need and then provide it? If you’re feeling ignored, ask her if she wants to cook a meal together, or watch a movie or cuddle.
Take responsibility for your feelings and then do something about it. You are just as capable as her - actually more so because YOU know how you feel - when it comes to providing yourself with what you need. Do the emotional and the actual labour instead of talking at her and making it your girlfriend’s problem.
posted by Jubey at 8:43 AM on June 30, 2021
Take responsibility for your feelings and then do something about it. You are just as capable as her - actually more so because YOU know how you feel - when it comes to providing yourself with what you need. Do the emotional and the actual labour instead of talking at her and making it your girlfriend’s problem.
posted by Jubey at 8:43 AM on June 30, 2021
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posted by bleep at 3:23 PM on June 28, 2021 [29 favorites]