How Secure Are Doggie Doors?
June 23, 2021 9:08 AM Subscribe
Me: has a large breed and a giant breed dog. Both are elderly and need frequent outside bathroom breaks.
You: Have some reason to have an opinion (anecdotal evidence is great too) on the likelihood of the dog door being used as a way to break into our house. And/or you have advice gleaned from experience about types of dog doors that will better prevent people breaking in.
Details after the jump.
Mr. Westridge and I work from home, so this only became an issue recently as the dogs have gone from old to very old, and unable to travel with us. They used to be able to have the sitter visit around 7 PM at night and be fine until the sitter visited again around 7 AM. Now they need to go out right when they wake up which can be as early as 4:45 in the AM. 4:45 is obviously too early to get a pet sitter to show up. For REASONS we do NOT, under any circumstances, want to kennel the dogs. We are weighing having the pet sitter stay overnight (if that's even an option depends on the sitter) against having the dog door. Hence, my question is my attempt to find out from the lovely folks at MeFi about their experiences with dog doors and break ins. Bonus points for Giant Breed dog doors (which seem to be almost as big as the regular door!).
Mr. Westridge and I work from home, so this only became an issue recently as the dogs have gone from old to very old, and unable to travel with us. They used to be able to have the sitter visit around 7 PM at night and be fine until the sitter visited again around 7 AM. Now they need to go out right when they wake up which can be as early as 4:45 in the AM. 4:45 is obviously too early to get a pet sitter to show up. For REASONS we do NOT, under any circumstances, want to kennel the dogs. We are weighing having the pet sitter stay overnight (if that's even an option depends on the sitter) against having the dog door. Hence, my question is my attempt to find out from the lovely folks at MeFi about their experiences with dog doors and break ins. Bonus points for Giant Breed dog doors (which seem to be almost as big as the regular door!).
I think you have to balance it against the overall security of your house and neighborhood.
Do you think anyone has checked your back door in the past year? Are there frequent burglaries from houses or cars within in your square mile? Or is it more the kind of neighborhood where you've not heard of a break in for years?
Also note that nobody knows your dogs are ancient, and a giant doggy door signals a giant dog is guarding the premises, and 99% of sane burglars will avoid that. Dogs are usually this first thing mentioned as a deterrent on those 'thieves tell their techniques' shows.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:25 AM on June 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Do you think anyone has checked your back door in the past year? Are there frequent burglaries from houses or cars within in your square mile? Or is it more the kind of neighborhood where you've not heard of a break in for years?
Also note that nobody knows your dogs are ancient, and a giant doggy door signals a giant dog is guarding the premises, and 99% of sane burglars will avoid that. Dogs are usually this first thing mentioned as a deterrent on those 'thieves tell their techniques' shows.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:25 AM on June 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Any door big enough for a giant breed to use is going to be vulnerable to others (people, critters) getting through the door if they want to. Whether it leaves you more likely to have a break in depends on other things - like, where the door is located - can a criminal see it? can your neighbors? and your neighborhood generally.
I would think there were ways to mitigate the risk, such as motion lights, cameras, etc. Large dogs themselves might be a deterrent. We have an entirely window-ed back room that, including a glass door, that if someone wanted to break into our house, would make it pretty easy to do so. But our neighbors are close, and the entrance is lit, and I never worry about it. I wouldn't worry about a dog door increasing that risk.
posted by dpx.mfx at 9:27 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I would think there were ways to mitigate the risk, such as motion lights, cameras, etc. Large dogs themselves might be a deterrent. We have an entirely window-ed back room that, including a glass door, that if someone wanted to break into our house, would make it pretty easy to do so. But our neighbors are close, and the entrance is lit, and I never worry about it. I wouldn't worry about a dog door increasing that risk.
posted by dpx.mfx at 9:27 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Would a smart dog door make you feel better? There are ones that are activated only by the dog's collar. They're not intended to keep out humans, just raccoons and such, but it is another barrier if it's mostly about peace of mind and break-ins aren't actually common in your neighborhood.
posted by epanalepsis at 9:28 AM on June 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 9:28 AM on June 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit but answer the question. Property crime in our area on a scale of 1=none to 5=very high would be a 4.5. It's not happening a lot on our road, but it's happening a lot in the general area. Dog door would not be visible from the street however, and our property is gated.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:34 AM on June 23, 2021
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:34 AM on June 23, 2021
Security is really about the amalgamation of all the measures you have in place. You are introducing a non-zero risk into your home with a large doggie door, but you are also advertising you have large dogs. Totally subjectively, I'd wager that advertising you have large dog(s) will more than offset the risk that someone crawls through the door.
The overall goal with home security is to make it a hard target, not an impossible target - no home is impenetrable but you want to make it so unappealing that they decide your house won't be worth it. I don't see a doggie door making your home appealing to thieves; if I was a burglar I wouldn't want to risk crawling through a hole that may have large bitey creatures on either side of it. Not to scare you, and not sure if it is relevant to your area, but my concern would be more with wild animals getting into the house - our neighbors have a large doggie door and they've had raccoons, birds, and snakes enter their house through the door. Much less dangerous than a burglar, but still a little alarming to encounter. Having a door that is lockable at night mitigates most of that.
If the added risk really concerns you, maybe think about things like motion lights, external cameras, etc. as mentioned above. You really want layers of protections that make it very challenging to beat them all at once.
posted by _DB_ at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
The overall goal with home security is to make it a hard target, not an impossible target - no home is impenetrable but you want to make it so unappealing that they decide your house won't be worth it. I don't see a doggie door making your home appealing to thieves; if I was a burglar I wouldn't want to risk crawling through a hole that may have large bitey creatures on either side of it. Not to scare you, and not sure if it is relevant to your area, but my concern would be more with wild animals getting into the house - our neighbors have a large doggie door and they've had raccoons, birds, and snakes enter their house through the door. Much less dangerous than a burglar, but still a little alarming to encounter. Having a door that is lockable at night mitigates most of that.
If the added risk really concerns you, maybe think about things like motion lights, external cameras, etc. as mentioned above. You really want layers of protections that make it very challenging to beat them all at once.
posted by _DB_ at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
So yeah, it does happen, but also the presence of a GIANT DOG DOOR does suggest the presence of a GIANT DOG, so there does tend to be a desperation level necessary to pick your house despite that evidence.
Given that it's hard to see and the area is gated, I'd probably go for it (and have done in the past), and maybe add a wifi camera with motion alerts so you can keep an eye out for dogs having trouble, wildlife breaches, and any suspicious activity.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
Given that it's hard to see and the area is gated, I'd probably go for it (and have done in the past), and maybe add a wifi camera with motion alerts so you can keep an eye out for dogs having trouble, wildlife breaches, and any suspicious activity.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
Echoing other people that I would be extremely worried about racoons/coyotes/rats/whatever other critters you have in your neighborhood, rather than (or in addition to) people.
But if property crime in your area is high - you're basically leaving a window open. How comfortable are you with leaving a window open while you're gone?
posted by brainmouse at 9:47 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
But if property crime in your area is high - you're basically leaving a window open. How comfortable are you with leaving a window open while you're gone?
posted by brainmouse at 9:47 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
I will note that yeah, they're so big that at one house that had a regular back door instead of a slider, we just bought a ripped secondhand screen door and covered the top 1/2ish with heavy clear vinyl to keep some of the air conditioning in and bugs out, and left the bottom open. If I had to do again I'd make a magnet screen of my own for the dogs to push through on the bottom half.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:47 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 9:47 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a reasonably large dog door in the back of the house. We are not a high crime area.
Over 10 years we have never had an animal come into the house (that didn't belong there, of course). Just to state the obvious - don't have your garbage cans or other food like things (grill, etc) right near said door.
posted by rich at 9:50 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Over 10 years we have never had an animal come into the house (that didn't belong there, of course). Just to state the obvious - don't have your garbage cans or other food like things (grill, etc) right near said door.
posted by rich at 9:50 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
When I last lived in a house with a dog-door, we had it in two locations: from the kitchen into the garage, and from the garage into the (fenced) yard. We had panels to insert to close off either door. We still ended up with raccoons getting into the dog food, which was stored in the garage. But it seemed reasonably secure because you couldn't use the door to get from the garage into the house unless we removed the panel from the inside.
Anyway, if I were you, I'd hire a house-sitter. The dogs will be happier and if they're as old as you say, you may want someone there with them.
posted by suelac at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
Anyway, if I were you, I'd hire a house-sitter. The dogs will be happier and if they're as old as you say, you may want someone there with them.
posted by suelac at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
We had a burglary enabled by our leaving our back door unlocked, gated back yard, upper middle-class neighborhood with, so far as we knew, very little crime, we'd lived there for about a decade without any issues at all.
Long long before that... we have RFID enabled cat doors, the larger size. The 3rd grade neighbor child was feeding our cats while we were away and accidentally flicked the back door to locked and was unable to get back in. I forget why I didn't have a key for the house when we got back, but I was able to fairly easily reach something in through our cat door, lasso our lever handles, and unlatch the door through the cat door.
If you have door knobs it's gonna be a lot harder, but if your pet door can fit a human head through it, a human can get entirely through it.
The chip-enabled doors have, however, done a really good job of letting the cats come and go without allowing the possums, skunks, or raccoons, or even neighbor cats, in.
Our solution to the burglary issue was to get cameras; when the officer came to investigate he performatively dusted for prints and all, but the sentiment was that unless we could solve it ourselves there wasn't much of a chance of chasing this down, so we hope that the cameras serve as a deterrent and a chance to solve such things should they occur again.
My general philosophy about such things is that someone who's intent on getting into the house can probably find a way into the house. Few houses are actually that secure. What we can do is deter the tweakers and know our neighbors.
posted by straw at 10:12 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Long long before that... we have RFID enabled cat doors, the larger size. The 3rd grade neighbor child was feeding our cats while we were away and accidentally flicked the back door to locked and was unable to get back in. I forget why I didn't have a key for the house when we got back, but I was able to fairly easily reach something in through our cat door, lasso our lever handles, and unlatch the door through the cat door.
If you have door knobs it's gonna be a lot harder, but if your pet door can fit a human head through it, a human can get entirely through it.
The chip-enabled doors have, however, done a really good job of letting the cats come and go without allowing the possums, skunks, or raccoons, or even neighbor cats, in.
Our solution to the burglary issue was to get cameras; when the officer came to investigate he performatively dusted for prints and all, but the sentiment was that unless we could solve it ourselves there wasn't much of a chance of chasing this down, so we hope that the cameras serve as a deterrent and a chance to solve such things should they occur again.
My general philosophy about such things is that someone who's intent on getting into the house can probably find a way into the house. Few houses are actually that secure. What we can do is deter the tweakers and know our neighbors.
posted by straw at 10:12 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
It sounds like this is a temporary problem - just while you're traveling? If it's not something that needs to be permanently updated, I wouldn't do it. I'd first check with the pet-sitter to see how they feel about spending the night, or an early morning visit. Personally, I'd just feel a lot more comfortable having someone in the house, especially with older dogs and a high-crime area. But that still means that your pet-sitter would need to be up early enough to let them outside.
posted by hydra77 at 10:28 AM on June 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 10:28 AM on June 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
I assume anyone desperate enough to come through our enormous (put in for a Saint Bernard originally) pet door, not knowing what type of giant dog might be on the other side, would also quite happily break the front window and reach in to unlock the door.
We do live in a very small town in a rural area, but have had this giant pet door for 15 years. Some of our cats have figured out how to use it. But we have never had a single uninvited guest - human or animal.
posted by hilaryjade at 11:12 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
We do live in a very small town in a rural area, but have had this giant pet door for 15 years. Some of our cats have figured out how to use it. But we have never had a single uninvited guest - human or animal.
posted by hilaryjade at 11:12 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Anecdata: we had a dog door when I was growing up and we got visits from neighborhood cats, lightly stunned birds and other creatures that the cats brought in, and on one memorable occasion, a raccoon that went rampaging through a bin of Christmas ornaments while we were away. Maybe a couple large dogs would deter these visitors but it's something to consider.
posted by beandip at 11:17 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by beandip at 11:17 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can the dog door just lead to one room that would be secured from the rest of the house? Therefore if someone manages to get in then they still have another (strong) locked door to deal with?
posted by chr at 11:31 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by chr at 11:31 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Dogue de Bordeaux patrol naturally (dawn/dusk), they're also the size of small body builders (topping out at 140).
Many guardian/livestock or shepherd breeds will do similar. Dogs are social sleepers, but these same breeds will "stand guard," at dusk or night (literally when you're ready for sleep and your smaller actions begin to cue the dog).
In shepherds (perhaps Malinois for example), the dog literally sits or stands guard like a small, organic, self-organized motion detector.
I've camped with Belgian shepherd dogs and they literally sat and stood watch after the person slept. It's a nice feature.
My experience with dog doors involves crawling through the door acting as a beeline for being bitten in the face. I would not* find it to be common.
But, if you think people are scoping your place and know your dogs are old: you can buy RFID activated dog doors that respond to the dog's collars or microchips.
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:37 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Many guardian/livestock or shepherd breeds will do similar. Dogs are social sleepers, but these same breeds will "stand guard," at dusk or night (literally when you're ready for sleep and your smaller actions begin to cue the dog).
In shepherds (perhaps Malinois for example), the dog literally sits or stands guard like a small, organic, self-organized motion detector.
I've camped with Belgian shepherd dogs and they literally sat and stood watch after the person slept. It's a nice feature.
My experience with dog doors involves crawling through the door acting as a beeline for being bitten in the face. I would not* find it to be common.
But, if you think people are scoping your place and know your dogs are old: you can buy RFID activated dog doors that respond to the dog's collars or microchips.
posted by firstdaffodils at 11:37 AM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I live in the middle of the city, have a 48kg Dogue De Bordeaux and a small back garden, and regularly contemplate installing an RFID dog door... but only an RFID dog door. The reasons I'm comfortable with this idea is that a) I have a lot of faith in RFID, and 2) my dogs are highly reactive. You can try getting in if you want, but you will leave very quickly.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:40 AM on June 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:40 AM on June 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I can't speak to either big dog doors, or likelihood of criminals using them, but animals coming in will be a your-mileage-may-vary thing. The house I grew up in had a fairly small - definitely smaller than 16x20 - dog opening, covered by a hanging piece of fabric. The cocker spaniels could easily fit through, and the chesapeake and lab could, with a little effort, if they wanted to.
That said, we had a point where the skunks were eating the cat food my mom put on the back patio. So she moved it inside the door. And they'd come in to eat it. Despite the dogs and cat. At one point, my mom discovered a skunk under our kitchen table, eating BBQ potato chips from a bag that had been ON the table when she went to bed. She decided her best option was going back to bed and hoping the dogs remained asleep, and we got lucky. That one had wandered halfway through the house. So while dogs SHOULD be a deterrent, they're not always. We had entirely too friendly skunks... my dad mistook one for a fluffy cat one night on the patio, and was petting it until he noticed the faint scent.
Other than the skunks, though, nothing ever came in the dog door except occasional lambs. The raccoons and possums were apparently smarter? Oh, and me. I hated doing it, but I could fit through, even as a teen, and my sister liked to lock me out.
posted by stormyteal at 1:11 PM on June 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
That said, we had a point where the skunks were eating the cat food my mom put on the back patio. So she moved it inside the door. And they'd come in to eat it. Despite the dogs and cat. At one point, my mom discovered a skunk under our kitchen table, eating BBQ potato chips from a bag that had been ON the table when she went to bed. She decided her best option was going back to bed and hoping the dogs remained asleep, and we got lucky. That one had wandered halfway through the house. So while dogs SHOULD be a deterrent, they're not always. We had entirely too friendly skunks... my dad mistook one for a fluffy cat one night on the patio, and was petting it until he noticed the faint scent.
Other than the skunks, though, nothing ever came in the dog door except occasional lambs. The raccoons and possums were apparently smarter? Oh, and me. I hated doing it, but I could fit through, even as a teen, and my sister liked to lock me out.
posted by stormyteal at 1:11 PM on June 23, 2021 [13 favorites]
What you do exactly depends on what kinds of locks you have and how they're unlocked and opened from the inside, but a burglar doesn't have to get his nephew through the doggy door in many cases, just his arm. If the door with the doggy door has a lever instead of a knob, or even if it doesn't, get a door lever protector
They're designed, generally, for two purposes: a little wall surrounding the door knob or level can give a handicapped person a leverage point if they can't grip the way a typical person can, and also to protect the knob/handle from being banked if the door swings and hits a wall.
But it has the added benefit of foiling some kinds of entries where someone sticks a wire and string under the door (the wire is stiff and is used to place the string onto the lever), or in your case, someone extending a hand or wire through the doggy door will have trouble with the lock. Likewise, some kind of cover for your deadbolt so it can't be easily opened by someone who can extend a probe inside but can't open the cover.
posted by Sunburnt at 3:13 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
They're designed, generally, for two purposes: a little wall surrounding the door knob or level can give a handicapped person a leverage point if they can't grip the way a typical person can, and also to protect the knob/handle from being banked if the door swings and hits a wall.
But it has the added benefit of foiling some kinds of entries where someone sticks a wire and string under the door (the wire is stiff and is used to place the string onto the lever), or in your case, someone extending a hand or wire through the doggy door will have trouble with the lock. Likewise, some kind of cover for your deadbolt so it can't be easily opened by someone who can extend a probe inside but can't open the cover.
posted by Sunburnt at 3:13 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Call the police, ask them. They might have some statistics; you'll at least get another data point. 2 large dogs is pretty great security.
posted by theora55 at 6:35 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 6:35 PM on June 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe a sign on the door "Beware of Dogs, they bite!."
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:12 PM on June 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:12 PM on June 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I have a medium sized doggie door, have for 10 years. I can fit through it (as long as it's before breakfast and I have stretched) but I've no concerns about robbers. I actually have more concerns about other animals, like raccoons and squirrels coming in, and getting my elderly dog to actually use it to outside to go to the bathroom. She's mostly got poops down, but not pees.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:22 AM on June 23, 2021 [3 favorites]