How to deal with a persistent stalker?
June 20, 2021 7:37 AM   Subscribe

A mentally disturbed man has been harassing me for 10+ years now. He contacted me again recently and I'm getting worried. He has many paranoid beliefs, plus also very likely abuses drugs - does anyone know how to deal with such a person?

I am a woman, in my late twenties. The stalker is a guy I (unfortunately) briefly dated while we were both in high school. Since then he's constantly been trying to contact me through phone calls and messages despite me repeatedly asking him to stop, and there have been several occasions in my first year of college when he's been extremely violent in person, trying to get to my dorm room etc. During that time, he has repeatedly threatened to kill or hurt me (I still have screenshots of some of those messages). I'm ashamed to admit I never reported these incidents to the authorities - I was a scared teenager, worried that if I get him in trouble with the police, he'll become even more violent, and I somehow believed he'll stop eventually (I wish). That was more than ten years ago, but he's never really stopped calling or messaging me at least several times a year.

This guy believes some secret group is controlling his whole life and that I'm part of that group. I also read some of his posts online a few years ago (he has deleted them since then) and apparently he believes he's being followed, that his thoughts are being read on the radio and other bizarre stuff - he wrote that he wants to get revenge for all the things society did to him etc. He definitely has violent tendencies. I also know he's had problems with the police in the past and he was treated at a psychiatric hospital following some violent episode at least once, but apparently he was released. I know his family and friends have cut him off completely due to his violent and delusional behaviour and drug abuse, so most likely there's no one who could make sure he takes his medication (which I'm pretty sure must've been prescribed in this case).

I didn't pay much attention to his calls and messages in the past few years because I was busy with school and later at work, and just trying to live my life. I blocked him everywhere so the calls and messages became less frequent, but every now and then he'd call or message me from a different number or account. Still, I just hoped he will stop eventually.

What made me worried now is that he called me from a private number a few days ago - I didn't recognise his voice at first so that's why I didn't hang up immediately. He claimed that his human rights have been breached i.e. by me (that's nonsense) and that there will be some sort of trial. He asked me to represent him in court (I'm a lawyer now) and said if I do then my punishment won't be so severe (?). Now of course this whole claim is completely absurd but probably you get why I'm getting worried.

So now I'm wondering how to deal with such a disturbed person - obviously if this was a somewhat normal guy I would again tell him to stop contacting me or I'll call the police, and if he didn't then I'd report it immediately and ask for a restraining order at least. But I know from past experience that ANY kind of response from me (even just telling him to stop) only caused him to contact me even more. So for the past few years I just ignored all his messages and hung up if he called from an unknown number. Also, the death threats and physical violence happened more than 10 years ago, which means he can't be held liable for that anymore (unless he repeats it, which I hope won't happen). And even if I took him to court over stalking (which I could), in my jurisdiction the maximum penalty for that is 1 year in prison. Which means I would have to go through the whole process of reporting the crime etc. only to get 1 year of peace at best, and then have to be worried about possible revenge. Plus, I really don't think he would respect any kind of restraining order - it would most likely only make him more aggressive. Another unfortunate thing is that most of the evidence of the calls and texts doesn't exist anymore because I've changed my phone so many times since then, and I always (naively) hoped I'll never need the evidence. I remember that some days he would call me 100+ times in one hour (he allegedly set up some sort of auto dial to constantly call my phone), but I don't have any evidence of that either. Most of the threatening messages are gone too (I only have screenshots of some messages sent to me on messenger).

Also, this guy is also quite tech-savvy (or at least used to be), he managed to install a keylogger on my computer years ago, and I only found out about this in my first year of college when my friends were doing something with my computer and found it - they deleted it and I have changed all my passwords since then, but it still horrifies me to think that for at least 6 months, this guy had unlimited access to basically all my accounts and everything I typed on my keyboard. He has also threatened that he will hack and delete my e-mail account, but I'm not sure if he could do that now.

So my question is - how do you think this person should be dealt with? I deeply regret not reporting the death threats and violence right away, but he can't be charged with those now. At the same time I refuse to take this BS any longer. Do any of you have experience with a similarly disturbed person? Or is there someone with some background in psychiatry? I would prefer to give the stalker one last warning - stop or I'll report it. But is such a person even capable of understanding this? Is it likely to make them even more violent or persistent in searching me out (I now live in a different city, my address and place of work are not available online so I hope he can't find me that easily, and he has not yet tried to find me in person - as far as I'm aware). Or is it better to just continue ignoring him? I'm worried about the "trial" and "punishment" he mentioned in the last call. But honestly I don't believe there's much the police could do even if I did report it. I don't know what to do now - I just want to keep me and my family safe from this weirdo.

So to sum up, I can either:
- warn him I'll report it if he doesn't stop, while risking that the harassment will escalate
- report it right away, spend loads of time gathering evidence and taking this to court, while risking that the harassment will escalate
- continue ignoring him, while risking that the harassment will escalate.

I just don't see any way out of this. Please let me know what you think, especially if you have some sort of experience with someone similar. Thanks for any advice. (I hope what I wrote is understandable - English is not my first language and I'm writing this in a hurry).
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (37 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
REPORT THINGS RIGHT NOW. The fact that he called you is the perfect reason to do so - he has your work number, this would be detrimental to your career, etc. (I am telling you things you can tell the police when you contact them). Give them the screenshots of the things that you saved to show that this has been happening for a while.

You have MORE than enough reason to report him right now.

And going forward do NOT talk to him OR respond to him. I know that warning him feels like the kind thing to do, but he is not in his right mind, so he will not think of it as a warning. He will treat it as "she is talking to me", and that's what he wants to have happen. Do not contact him any more at all, and report things right now. This has been going on long enough and you deserve to be free of this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:52 AM on June 20, 2021 [41 favorites]


I totally sympathize with your feelings that law enforcement is unlikely to be any help but I do think it’s time to talk to them and find out what your local resources are and start a paper trail. Just because you didn’t do it before doesn’t mean you can’t do it now. Do you have a friend who can help you with this process? You seem distressed at the thought of taking action and I think the anxiety and hesitancy is understandable. This is a scary situation and, frankly, we aren’t fed though the media many stories about women getting the help and protection they need. Just the opposite in fact. It’s almost like the system wants us to feel constantly in a state of fear and disempowerment.

Here’s a website (link) of info about stalking, stalking awareness and resources. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. It’s not your fault. Just because you had a relationship in the past and didn’t report sooner doesn’t make any of this deserved or your fault or anything but wrong, antisocial and frightening behavior. You can’t fix this guy and it’s not your job to do so nor is it possible with any of the tools at your disposal. For the near term, I encourage you to continue not to engage. Please find a friend who can support you while you work through this.
posted by amanda at 8:01 AM on June 20, 2021 [5 favorites]


This seems really obvious, but... Change your phone number? Reset your IP address/password? Do all the things the most secure tech people do, and swallow the costs as the price of your physical (and mental) wellbeing. Close your social media or at the very least don't use your own face as your profile pic for anything and don't use your own name (first/last)-- maybe use the first name if you have a really generic one like Kate, but don't use your name at all if it's something distinct, like Athena.

But seriously, change your phone number, maybe even your phone provider. He can't stalk you if he can't find you.

Side note, I was being stalked once in a similar situation, and I told the man when he called me once that my line was tapped/traced and the police were assembling a dossier of proof against him when he called- this was obviously bullshit but he stopped after that. I don't advocate for that strategy bc it means you have to interact w this person, which I don't think you should, at all.

If you're unwilling to change numbers, NEVER pick up calls from unknown numbers, ONLY give your number to people to whom you exchange numbers with mutually so you have them saved in your own phone and know who is calling you when they are.

I think you should report this now, although, it's very hard to motivate law enforcement to act on stalking men, especially if you haven't had any actual physical contact w them in years. But, he should be on their radar, a paper trail should at least be established, nobody cares if you waited "too long" to report, trust me, nobody is judging you for not dealing with this sooner, it's totally normal for women to hope these types of men just go away, it's the most normal thing ever to go the route you took.
It's also possible (probable) that he's doing this to other women, and law enforcement are in fact aware of him, and any new information that would bolster their investigation would be welcome.

If you are worried about this escalating to physical aggression, which I would be and it sounds like you are, once you've locked down your privacy/the tech side, give the person you trust most in the world and who is capable and willing to help the ability to track your presence, based on your phone, live.
Also, if you wear a smart watch, at least for my Garmin, if I press one specific button in 3 consecutive, specific ways, then 2 people who I am close to will get alerts that I am in danger and my location and I believe also law enforcement is contacted, just via this very simple sequence of button pressing.
posted by erattacorrige at 8:11 AM on June 20, 2021 [11 favorites]


One more thing-- I think there are more options beyond the 3 possibilities that you summarized at the end of the Ask-- like, usually, if it's an emergency situation, you don't have to go to court in order to get a protective order. Also, you could hire a PI to look into this for you, and at least remove some of the anxiety out of your direct involvement with sorting out all this alone. Also, I mean again, like, this won't go to court if there's no evidence of him doing anything that will put you at physical risk, unless he posted up some revenge porn or something like that involving you, I don't see how this would go to court based solely on some digital / telephone harassment, or even drive-by stalking. Idk, I don't think it's usually that black and white, there are a lot of potential avenues this could follow.
Also, could you get a camera for your living situation? If you rent, could you get the landlord to install one? These things are really helpful with establishing evidence in the event he's coming around your place more directly.
And in line with Empress, DO NOT WARN HIM, you don't owe him a warning, you don't owe him any communication, if by warning him you hope he will suddenly become reasonable and see that he's causing you distress, this is not going to happen. Do not communicate with him in any way shape or form.
posted by erattacorrige at 8:19 AM on June 20, 2021 [7 favorites]


I would prefer to give the stalker one last warning - stop or I'll report it. But is such a person even capable of understanding this?

I think you already know the answer to this question: no, he won't understand it and no, it won't stop him.

IANAD and IANAL; my mother is a mental health nurse, I've been on multiple mental health courses and have had friends who have gone down this path of drugs and worsening mental health leading to a crisis.

This man is not well. Treating him like a person who is well and has full understanding of the consequences of his actions isn't going to help either of you. It's nice that you're worried about his treatment by the police (which, I'm not going to lie, may not be good) but at this point he's a danger to you and your family and you need to act accordingly.

Please contact the police. Explain everything, don't leave anything out to try to protect him. They absolutely will have dealt with something like this before and will be able to intervene, or at least give you advice. If they don't act, you will at least have started a paper trail and a record. If he's been treated for his psychosis due to violent incidents, he's likely already known to them and that will serve to escalate their response, and may even lead to him being put back into treatment.

This is a serious matter and you may need to do some pretty big things to protect yourself and your family from him. I know it's scary and frustrating to confront the idea of having to change your life just because of this guy, but the alternative might be much much worse. Just trying to ignore it and hoping he'll go away clearly isn't working.

Please keep us updated if you can!
posted by fight or flight at 8:27 AM on June 20, 2021 [7 favorites]


Are you in the United States? In addition to the advice above, can your state bar association provide assistance with navigating the resources and processes available to you?
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 8:34 AM on June 20, 2021 [1 favorite]


The same man has been doing this for ten years despite you telling him no, ignoring him, all sorts of messaging that you don't want to talk to him. He will not understand any communication from you at all.

You should report this and start a paper trail. It is okay that you haven't done so in the past, but it is clear this guy isn't going to forget about you or de-escalate. I'm so sorry. This is a terrible situation.

You are dealing with someone with a severe mental illness and you are a part of a fixed delusion of theirs. Nothing, litterally nothing you can say will fix this. This is what involuntary mental health care is for. This is what jail is for (unfortunately, but it is likely be will recieve at least a little medication or mental health monitoring in jail if he is seriously mentally ill).

Just get started on the paper trail. Before you go I'd suggest writing down a list of incidents the best you can remember in time line order. Get the screenshots printed. Have everything together the best you can and go. Explain calmly that you want this person to never ever talk to you again and that you fear for your safety. If it's to hard to put together, just report what you have you shouldn't delay because of it, but it's helpful the more organized you are. Push to try and get that order of protection, but you may have difficulty with it. Every judge and juristriction varies on that. Some are way better than others.

There should be supportive agencies that can give you local information. Some sort of court advocate. I wish you the best of luck.

Take gentle care of you. This is a very stressful situation to be in.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:51 AM on June 20, 2021 [7 favorites]


Depending on your location and where you work, this could be a workplace safety issue that affects not only you, which is shitty enough, but also potentially your coworkers. So if you feel it is safe to approach your company about this, consider approaching your company so that the company can also put in measures to help protect you and the rest of the staff.

It’s disturbing that this ill man knows that you are an attorney. If he knows where you work, that becomes even more potentially dangerous. So in addition to the other advice you’ve been given, I think if it’s possible for you to do this without losing your job or worrying about losing your job, you should alert your manager or HR person to the situation. Whomever answers the telephone where you work needs to know they should never ever tell anyone you work there, for example. And maybe not even then. I am so sorry that you are forced to deal with this scary situation. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:05 AM on June 20, 2021 [16 favorites]


No, definitely don't contact him at all ever. Yes, involve the police. But first, before you call them, call your local domestic abuse shelter or agency; they will have the best resources and support for you and are likely to be far more helpful than police. They will know the safest course of action. You are in real danger from this person and deserve support on this.
posted by shadygrove at 9:50 AM on June 20, 2021 [3 favorites]


OP is surely listed on her firm's website, which is a problem I have no advice for. Hopefully your firm can think of an appropriate way to deal with this.

OP, if you are a California attorney by any chance, know that the Cal state bar has (just this year!!!!) removed the requirement that your address (office or home or whatever you give them) be publicly available. (Of course you can always do this through a virtual mailbox too.) I also received this information from them:


If you are the victim of stalking, and have no other safe, reliable public/office address to use on your public profile as your official address, please see the link below to the California Secretary of State’s “Safe At Home” program, which offers free Post Office boxes for eligible victims of stalking, abuse, etc., to use instead of their home addresses wherever they are required to provide a public address. Please feel free to review this site and contact them to determine your eligibility for this program. https://www.sos.ca.gov/registries/safe-home/

PLEASE NOTE RE HOME ADDRESSES: Whereas before 2016 the State Bar could legally withhold its membership data from individuals or organizations requesting it, we are now subject to the California Public Records Act. Whatever is your current address on our records is a public record that we must provide upon request. In the (unlikely) event of a request for historical address information, the only addresses we may withhold are attorneys’ PRIOR (not current) HOME addresses. Therefore if it is very important that your current home address be withheld from possible disclosure, please first change this address via your online My State Bar Profile to an address that could be disclosed in the event it is requested. (A P.O. Box or your name “c/o” the office address of a friend or colleague are options.) THEN send an email to AttorneyRegulation@calbar.ca.gov with “CPRA Request re Bar#_______, __(Name)___” in the subject line. In the body of the email, please provide the complete previous (home) address(es) you are asking to be withheld. If you need a list of addresses you have provided to the bar as your address of record, please email louise.turner@calbar.ca.gov.

posted by fingersandtoes at 9:54 AM on June 20, 2021 [5 favorites]


Oh my God! Stop thinking about needing to warn a person who could very possibly kill you! I know it's hard to wrap your head around this, really, I know from experience how hard it is, but your life is in danger right now and every day this person knows how to get hold of you/find you. Hire a good company to scrub your presence from the internet, change your phone numbers/passwords/usernames. Read everything you can about cyber safety and safety in general. Start with a book called, The Gift Of Fear. Right now you need to take every single precaution you possibly can. I'm sorry if this is super upsetting but you need to take this extremely seriously. Get started now. I'm sending you every one of my best, most protective thoughts. If you take this seriously you may well make it to a point where you no longer have to live with this fear, better days are a definite possibility. Take care and good luck!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:05 AM on June 20, 2021 [12 favorites]


I'll be honest with you--yours is one of the only two or three scenarios in which I've ever thought I'd get a gun. But you'd have to be willing to learn to use it effectively, to carry it with you, and to shoot, if necessary. Only you know if you're willing and capable. (Otherwise, having it around could make matters worse.) Others have given good advice above, but I'm worried for you and I don't think the legal system can necessarily be relied upon to protect you, so I raise the possibility.
posted by praemunire at 10:20 AM on June 20, 2021 [9 favorites]


Reach out to your law association. It is very common for lawyers to be stalked so they *should* have resources. Do not contact the man to “warn” him - that actually makes the situation worse as now you have rewarded him and taught him that he just has to be persistent enough to get your attention.

I am also reluctant to involve the police needlessly, but this is one of the times that police are the ONLY option. It may be the only way he can receive the help he needs, but you also need to keep you and your family safe.

Please get yourself into therapy with a counsellor familiar with stalking. You are doing a LOT of self-victim blaming. You have done nothing to deserve this attention from this man. You need more support because this has been a deeply traumatizing decade.
posted by saucysault at 10:27 AM on June 20, 2021 [21 favorites]


If your voice mail message has is a recording of your voice, you may want to delete that and go with your phone carrier's default outgoing message that basically says in a robotic voice "You have reached 687-5309". The more impersonal the better.

Also, if you're still friends with the friend who found the key logger ask them if they would be willing to write out a statement of that incident. It's evidence this has been going on a long time.
posted by Constance Mirabella at 10:28 AM on June 20, 2021 [19 favorites]


If nothing else, you should report this—all of it, regardless of statute—because I can’t imagine this is the first or last time he has been or will be dangerous or committed crimes. Your report could help someone else, help build a case, help track him down, or even help prevent something really serious.

Someone who’s transgressed this badly and this consistently can’t be warned off. Someone who’s not fully in reality can’t be snapped back with magic words. Don’t talk to him and don’t answer unknown calls—he already thinks you’re operating against him, so I can’t imagine a warning would land as intended.

Take care! Could you get out of town after you make your report?
posted by kapers at 10:49 AM on June 20, 2021 [2 favorites]


Lots of good advice here about working with the authorities.

If you aren't ready to get a gun, at least get a taser or pepper spray/mace and ALWAYS carry it. And take a self-defense class ASAP (and again maybe 1x a year for the rest of your life) to teach you how to evade and escape from someone who is trying to, say, pull you into his car.

I would also make sure that anyone you live or work with (also neighbors!) knows you have a stalker, including showing them his picture, so that they don't inadvertently give information about you to a "friend" or "cousin" who stops by asking about you - or let him into your home or office!

I would also try to minimize my online presence, i.e. make your social media all under a pseudonym. Honestly this might scare me enough to change my name to make myself harder to find. If/when you get married, you can legally change your first and last name at that point.

Do you have a professional internet presence? Do you have to have that? Make sure that your home address is not listed anywhere. One of the most easy places to find anyone's address is their voter registration file, which is public record. I don't know if your county would be willing to strike you from the public file due to this safety concern...it's possible.

Unfortunately I think the end game may be this man violently attacking you at some point. I would be taking this very seriously.
posted by amaire at 10:55 AM on June 20, 2021 [4 favorites]


Sorry, I can only imagine the effect this must be having on your mental health. In addition to the other great recommendations above, I’d highly suggest living with a friend or family member for safety reasons and not have your name publicly listed with that address. Or have a friend / family member live at your current place. Definitely have an alarm system with video cameras wherever you live.

I’d also suggest asking a friend / family member to accompany you whenever you need to go out late at night or early in the morning.
posted by mundo at 11:50 AM on June 20, 2021


I'm just going to back up the advice above to cease all engagement with this person. Document, report, but please stop treating this like you're dealing with a reasonable person who might have some legitimate problem with you. Like, you can be very very sorry he is so unwell, but you personally cannot give him anything he needs to get better and you need to make decisions based on your own safety first and foremost, without guilt or a sense of responsibility for him.

I do recommend taking a self-defense class. It's not just about training to immediately take action instead of freezing in a critical moment (though it is huge to learn to do so, it's the thing that'll save your life if it comes to that), but you need to learn to trust your instincts and how to not be nice when it's not the time for niceness. You need to learn better situational awareness - how to scan a space before you enter it, how to assess any situation for the escape routes and hidden nooks, how to get in and out of your car/office safely. It doesn't mean living in fear, it just means living in alertness.

If you can find a self-defense trainer in your area who specifically has stalker experience or experience working with paranoid/delusional people, it's worth maybe even having a private conversation. Because there's a time to hang up the phone or set off a panic alarm when there's people nearby who are going to react, and sometimes there is no choice but to tell him that yeah motherfucker, you are Them and you could have him taken out with a gesture. You need coaching from someone with experience to know when to pull that particular card, though, and you need to practice being mean enough to play it if the time comes.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse pre-talking yourself out of reporting it because you'll have to do the investigation and criminal procedures yourself (?). There are processes. You can start with reporting it, and receiving advice on how to proceed, and take it from there.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:52 AM on June 20, 2021 [4 favorites]


Hey, you should also check out this recent ask thread. Lots of good advice/links for securing your tech gear and online presence.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 11:52 AM on June 20, 2021 [3 favorites]


Hire a good company to scrub your presence from the internet, change your phone numbers/passwords/usernames. Read everything you can about cyber safety and safety in general.

Quoting this advice from WalkerWestridge because while yes, I agree that going to the police and starting a paper trail is one track worth starting, the other key professional you need to approach is a tech security professional. I know someone involved in racial justice who once received a hand-delivered letter to their house from a white supremacist. It understandably alarmed them, as did realizing that their address was easily found with a Google search.

So yes, one step to take ASAP is to learn how much info about you exists on the Internet, have a professional scrub it and advise you have to keep it scrubbed, and then respond as needed. Which might mean needing to move.

Very sorry this is happening to you.
posted by coffeecat at 12:02 PM on June 20, 2021 [3 favorites]


It's been ten years; this is not going away. You need to do every single thing you can do to be safe, and now is the time; act immediately, thoroughly, and decisively, and prepare contingencies.

He mentioned that you will receive punishment -- I think that counts as a threat, but hey, you're the lawyer.

If it were me, I might also do this: find a safe way to contact him, or pay someone really psychologically skilled to do it for you, and communicate an interpretation of events in his life (that you know about) that adds up to a story where he's the protagonist and he never every contacts you again. This should also be someone who will seem authoritative and trustworthy -- if that's possible -- and a compelling storyteller.

I think a lot of people get screwed up (by neurological/psychological problems and) the strong need to have events make sense in an understandable, heroic story of their lives. Maybe something like "You learned X lessons, and more lessons that will be revealed over time, but as your life progresses, the lessons are what you take with you; her part of the story is over. New people -- guides, teachers, maybe a friend - are coming into your life all the time to take different roles, and they all add up to completing your life's purpose" ... or something like that that a trained professional thinks is a good idea.

Will this work? That's why I'd talk to a professional. It's just an idea, and if done wrong, or if it's a terrible idea, it could backfire -- but I wouldn't decide that based on other people's interpretations of popular books or shows; I'd get the input of someone, or a couple of people, who are very knowledgeable about a variety of cases or about this case.

Why bother even thinking about this? Because I'm someone who wants to know that I've done every single thing I can to make my life as secure and free as possible.
posted by amtho at 12:26 PM on June 20, 2021


Just following up on amtho's response... I don't think it is the responsibility of you, the victim of aggression and violence (bc aggressive words and stalking ARE violence) to help this person sort out *their* issues. It always falls on the victims to make sense of what happens to them and why the perpetrators do what they do, but I very much think it's important to resist this framework, in addition to the fact that no matter what anyone says to him - case in point, his own family, as you've said, cut him off; presumably these are the people who would most be able to get him to "hear" reason, if ever he were able- cannot seem to do it. I think if you give the person ANY in to you, it's an invitation for disaster, and why do it? I do not think this would make you any safer: the safest thing to do is basically form your own version of witness protection program for yourself. I don't think this person is vulnerable to suggestion or can be reverse-manipulated; they have a personality disorder or set of disordered traits, whatever you want to call them, that sets them apart from reality, logic, reason. All the evidence of this lack of rationale is present in the fact that this guy's been stalking you since basically the year the Syrian Civil war began as well as the year that Occupy Wall Street began. Like, dude. This person is completely unable to be persuaded or reasoned with- think about all that's happened in TEN YEARS and this person is STILL obsessed by a brief highschool romance omg no.
posted by erattacorrige at 1:51 PM on June 20, 2021 [10 favorites]


Call the police. Do not contact him. This will not get better unless you have more help or he dies.

Also: I’ve written this on similar threads, but please inform any family members he may be able to get in touch with. This includes anyone with your last name who knows any info at all about you, if your last name is at all unique. My dad had a stalker (now dead) who dialed every $LASTNAME in the white pages and befriended an elderly aunt. The aunt was not kept abreast of the stalking situation, but who was all too happy to share what town he was living in, and the names and schools his children attended. The stalker sent letters that made it clear she’d watched me enter and leave my school when I was about 10.

This man is not well, and he can cause you and your family harm. Please take action.
posted by tchemgrrl at 2:10 PM on June 20, 2021 [13 favorites]


You do not owe him a warning before reporting his stalking and harassing and threatening behavior to law enforcement. Moreover, warning him is counterproductive at best (and dangerous at worst). Communication from you will just give him more fodder for his delusions. There is no way a person can engage in these behaviors AND be able to hear a final warning. If he were well enough to stop because of a warning, he’d be well enough to stop without one. It’s tragic, and you can’t make it better for him. I don’t know how helpful the police will be, but it’s absolutely appropriate to escalate this in that way. It’s ok that you didn’t report it sooner. This isn’t something we naturally have a social script for. It sounds like you knew him before his first psychotic break, or at least early enough in his illness that you think/thought of him as able to engage with reality. That’s really hard to let go of. Necessary, but really hard. Definitely keep records, screenshots, etc. going forward, but don’t beat yourself up for how you got through this in the past.

On a practical note, if you want to keep your current number, perhaps you could get a Google voice account so callers have to identify themselves before you accept the call. (Or, if you change numbers, you could set up your new number as a Google voice account so going forward he can’t surprise you.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 2:20 PM on June 20, 2021 [3 favorites]


Eight years of persistent stalker here. Mine destroyed my reputation. Here’s some shit nobody else who hasn’t been through it would know to tell you

People’s ritual acknowledgement of misfortune is not adequate to the task. People also get really shirty when you tell them to stick their sorry up their ass, so it’s often better to curate attachments very harshly.
Western capitalist society has very few scripts for solutionless problems. There’s no greeting cards for this sort of shit. Prayer, stoic philosophy, death meditation can be helpful.
Finding someone who is willing and able to properly weep, sob, bawl about the situation with you can be helpful.
Go easy on yourself. If service to others helps you, do it, but go easy on yourself - you’re carrying a burden for which there is no script, and no community. You are in the category of oppressed and marginalised folks even more than you otherwise would be because of this situation. Say no. Focus on yourself and your truly nourishing community.
Many people will not know how to deal with your solutionless problem and will detach. It’s ok to be angry at them.
I don’t do hopeys, wishies and sorries, but if I can help in a practical way, I will.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 2:31 PM on June 20, 2021 [8 favorites]


Also, forgive your animal responses. You live in society which has rules but society has failed you. So if you have violent, murderous thoughts about your stalker that is because you are an animal, a mammal, a member of a predatory species. Your stalker should be drummed out of town and nobody should sell him a cup of water. He should be shunned by the village as it were, but he isn’t being shunned and so titanic rage at society is absolutely normal. It’s ok to not want to help others at a lizard brain level because they’re not helping you. Structurally, they can’t, due to the legal structures imposed by society, but it is normal for us to want to get our communities to drum stalkers out and it’s normal to not want to care for others when we aren’t being protected. Ironically, acknowledging and feeling these things can free us to act generously towards others anyway.

If I did wish, I would wish your stalker ill—vividly and graphically, with every powerful precision afforded by my years of practice as a professional writer.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 2:37 PM on June 20, 2021 [8 favorites]


Nthing all the other responses encouraging you to report to the police and seek a protective order. I worked as an RN in a state hospital that served patients with persistent, treatment refractory mental illness for over a decade. Your stalker is delusional and needs treatment. Without this, you are most certainly at risk of escalating harassment and/or violence. You mention that you dated this man in high school, and obviously he’s still local to you. Any chance you know how to contact his parents or other family? In your shoes I would not hesitate to reach out to his closest relative to let them know what’s been going on. They might not know about him stalking you, there’s even a chance they are unaware of how sick he is. Sometimes folks with thought disorders can present as relatively “well” for brief periods, but actually be suffering from delusions/responding to internal stimuli. His paranoia might extend to his family members as well, but would be the best ones to try to get him help. Definitely do not contact the stalker himself, ever. I wish you well.
posted by little mouth at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2021 [2 favorites]


Don't contact the stalker or ANYONE he is associated with. If you contact family members you don't know, they are liable to tell him, and that counts as contact from you and will only encourage him. If you try to manipulate him psychologically, even through a friend as has been suggested, that will almost certainly not work, and probably make things worse. Please do not do these things.

One of the guiding tenets of dealing with a stalker/harasser is NO contact. No contact means no contact, including through an intermediary. Read stories about other people's stalkers if necessary to be convinced that contact of any kind is a bad, bad, bad idea.

I apparently still have an online stalker, that I thought I'd gotten rid of years ago. He somehow found me on a dating site, despite the fact that it's a relatively new profile, with only state and not city specified, with a different username and no pics. Even the age is 2 years off. These fuckers are persistent as fuck.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 7:18 PM on June 20, 2021 [8 favorites]


" I remember that some days he would call me 100+ times in one hour (he allegedly set up some sort of auto dial to constantly call my phone), but I don't have any evidence of that either." There are autodialing apps, this isn't at all implausible.

Fyi, you can have your friends who found the keylogger sign an affidavit for you. They can also sign affidavits for stalking/harassment/autodialing.

If/when he calls again, record the conversation and screenshot the timestamp/call. You don't even have to respond, if he begins speaking, record. Collect recordings over a timeline, based on your local requirements for an RO.

Even if an RO incenses the person, you'll have a fulcrum for enforcement.

The affidavit in combination with a call could actually be enough for an RO, depending on your states requirements.

Regardless, please start documenting now. This person is expressing in many ways, they may not curb their behavior soon.

Best of luck-
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:18 PM on June 20, 2021 [1 favorite]


Nobody has mentioned The Gift of Fear yet, might be worth reading, as it talks a lot about dealing with stalkers.
posted by slidell at 8:27 AM on June 21, 2021 [1 favorite]


One way to document is to set up a new gmail account, and forward emails to it, note contacts on the calendar. I use Google Voice for my phone messages and recommend it, voice messages can be forwarded.

He is not well, and warning him or telling him to leave you alone will not be useful because he is unable to understand reality competently. If he were convicted of stalking, he could get time in a mental hospital, where he would have to take medication, get treatment, and have a respite from his terrifying illness, so don't avoid the legal system.

Make sure that important people in your life - apartment company, employer, close friends and family - know that you are and have been stalked by a mentally disturbed man. No one should give out any personal information, let anyone into your home, interact with him other than to make note of time, date, location, interaction. Having said that, I told my employer to be wary of an individual; they let him hang out in my office to wait for me, fortunately on a good day. Lock your office. Lock and alarm your car. Keep your keys handy if you have a car with an emergency button. Set your phone's personal assistant to call police if you use a secure word. Look in to personal security devices - things that make noise, taser, pepper spray, etc. Take some form of self-defense training. I hate guns, but I'd at least consider one, and take training. Read The Gift of Fear.

Visit the police, file a complaint, get a restraining order, do all the things. This is notoriously not terribly effective, but to the extent that it's effective, do it. Domestic violence programs may have some help. Get advice, but I wonder if his parents might be helpful in terms of making the police aware that he is dangerous; the parents likely know his medical and legal history. You might be in a position to help each other. You are in a shitty situation, wildly unfair, and I'm so sorry.
posted by theora55 at 8:31 AM on June 21, 2021


Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks everyone for answering. I went to the police today to ask for advice and apparently what this guy is doing doesn't qualify as stalking or any other offense. They said if he just contacts me several times a year then that's not frequent enough, and - as I expected - I should have reported the death threats, physical violence and constant calls and messages years ago because now they can't do anything about it. They told me to change my phone number and see if that helps. I know some of you have suggested doing this, but numerous websites with advice for the victims of stalking actually warn against changing phone numbers, as this can make the stalker feel like they need to find the victim in person in order to get through to them. So I'm not sure if this is such a good idea. Also changing both my phone numbers would be really annoying because I've been using them for years now and they are connected to all my accounts etc. I will consider doing it though.

Regarding some of the advice here:
- I was considering contacting the stalker because it is sometimes necessary in my jurisdiction to have proof that the victim has clearly stated they do not wish to be contacted, but I don't feel any need at all to warn him or anything and I know it would not be smart to contact him in any way, so I won't be doing that. I also don't like the idea of contacting his family (unfortunately they are not very mentally stable either) or contacting him through an intermediary, so I won't be doing that either.
- I don't live in the US, so some of the advice unfortunately doesn't apply to me
- I currently work as an in-house lawyer, not an attorney, and my name isn't posted anywhere on the company's website
- my social media accounts have already been very private for years, but I have deleted most of the publicly available information now
- I already ordered the book "The Gift of Fear" a few days ago and plan to read it asap
- I have been thinking about getting a self-defense training, but haven't realised how urgently I might need it, so thanks for pointing that out - I have registered for a self-defense class for women now and should be starting next week
- good point with the therapy - I do blame myself a lot for having "attracted" such a person into my life and for failing to acknowledge all the red flags raising even back in highschool before the stalker's mental health started to deteriorate.

So it seems like I will have to take all the steps I possibly can to protect myself, as the police can't do anything about this unless the situation escalates again. That's not the conclusion I was hoping for but I'm so thankful for all of the advice here - you have been much more helpful than the police guys today. Thanks!
posted by taz (staff) at 9:43 AM on June 21, 2021


Please check in with your local relationship violence center, they will be able to coach and advocate on your behalf -they know this area as they regularly focus on this. They may not get him…arrested, but they will be able to support you and provide strategies based on grounded experience, as this happens across all identities.
posted by childofTethys at 10:09 AM on June 21, 2021 [2 favorites]


I’m glad you updated. I just want to reiterate how much this is not your fault. It doesn’t matter how many red flags there were either in actuality or in retrospect because you had no way of knowing. In another timeline, he doesn’t focus on you, he gets help, he takes his meds. No way of you to know. No way to guess. I just hope from this moment forward you can unshoulder the burden of hindsight and give yourself forgiveness for not being a clairvoyant or a mind reader. All your steps sound positive and I’m sorry your first touch with law enforcement didn’t set everything at ease. I hope you can connect with more local resources.
posted by amanda at 7:58 PM on June 21, 2021 [2 favorites]


Pepper spray for sure. Unlike mace, it can't cause permanent damage, so if you accidentally spray yourself then while it sucks to be you for a while there's no permanent harm. A lot of places that teach handgun courses also teach pepper spray courses.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:31 PM on June 21, 2021


Some things you can do:

Don't get rid of your phone number, get a different phone number and give that to everyone you want to pick up the phone for. While you are at it tell them they should never give your number out to anyone, and that if someone wants your number they can text you that person's contact info. You can set up your old number on google voice for free, set up your voicemail so it seems as though nothing has changed.

Let your employer know that they are NEVER to give this person any information or admit them to the premises, and that they should notify you if this person has contact with them. Consider if there is anyone else you should alert similarly.

If you have a photo of him, keep it in case you ever need to show it to your neighbors. "Oh a man came by looking for me? Was it this guy?"
posted by yohko at 8:15 PM on June 22, 2021 [5 favorites]


Another vote for The Gift of Fear, and resources therein; I'd seek professional help to find the best way to deal with it. There is a ton of research on stalkers and why they do what they do, how best to deal with each type.

Secondly, one of the challenging parts of this situation is being on the receiving end, the anger and frustration to discover violation of a boundary. So, I'd give myself sometime to feel the feelings when I don't decide on the next step/action and after that go over the pros and cons of the choices I have, the counter backlash expected and so forth. You decide what's best for you based on all the info you can find.
posted by xm at 4:00 PM on July 8, 2021


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