Relationship advice for the anxious
May 29, 2021 12:44 AM Subscribe
I've been seeing someone for a little over three months, and my anxiety has sky-rocketed. I think this is more about me than them, but how do I cope?
I (37F) am dating a (34M) who lives around 90 minutes from me. We met through online dating. This person is someone who I feel very compatible with, but there are certain communication and personality differences that trigger my anxiety on the regular. I don't want to scrap the relationship, but it's impacting my work and happiness.
Here are the things that trigger my anxiety/distress:
1) Inconsistent at texting. Sometimes they will say they 'missed' my text when I ask what's up. We mostly text about memes, each other's day, little things like that. I find myself trying to match the tempo of their texting, but sometimes they leave me hanging at night. We've talked about this, and they sometimes are really excellent at texting, but then a week will happen where they don't reply unless prodded.
2) They hate planning. They'd prefer that all of hangouts are spontaneous. We've seen each other most weekends since we started dating, but occasionally they'll get very wishy-washy, and then randomly call on a Friday to come visit. Waiting for them to decide whether they want to hang out is terrible. To be clear, I will make plans and ask them to join, and they will say that they just need to wait to see how they feel.
3) In conversations about these topics, they are very emotionally self-aware, but don't express much interest in changing. For planning, they've said things like, "Call me on a Sunday at 11am, that is probably a good time for me to plan." Or they will say, "I will talk to my boss about planning and get back to you," and then they just... don't.
We have talked, a couple of times, about the above issues. I have expressed that I feel SUPER ANXIOUS when I don't hear back from them for hours, especially when they are being cagey about making plans. I own that my response is my own response. They are very communicative about being in to me, wanting this to work out long-term, being committed, etc.
However, they also don't like to talk about their own emotions much. They identify as a 'stoic', and come from a taciturn family background, where discussing emotions could lead to heated arguments. They'll definitely own and recognize what their habits are, but they seem less willing to compromise. For example, if I say, "Let's check out this restaurant," and it's a restaurant they dislike, they might humor me but make passive aggressive comments about how terrible the place is while we're there.
We talk about 1x a week over phone, and we went on a camping trip about a month ago, so it's not like we have never made any plans. I just find that every week I go through the same intense anxiety, which disrupts my work day.
I'm in therapy, take a small dose of antidepressants, and exercise regularly. I also work full-time. However even with these things, I am in a somewhat brutal place emotionally. My therapist thinks that I should try some EMDR sessions before I call it quits in this relationship.
Is there a better way to talk about this with the person that I'm seeing? Is this a salvageable relationship when my reactions are so strong? I would like to stay with them, continue to communicate about my needs, and try to find a middle ground.
Thank you!
I (37F) am dating a (34M) who lives around 90 minutes from me. We met through online dating. This person is someone who I feel very compatible with, but there are certain communication and personality differences that trigger my anxiety on the regular. I don't want to scrap the relationship, but it's impacting my work and happiness.
Here are the things that trigger my anxiety/distress:
1) Inconsistent at texting. Sometimes they will say they 'missed' my text when I ask what's up. We mostly text about memes, each other's day, little things like that. I find myself trying to match the tempo of their texting, but sometimes they leave me hanging at night. We've talked about this, and they sometimes are really excellent at texting, but then a week will happen where they don't reply unless prodded.
2) They hate planning. They'd prefer that all of hangouts are spontaneous. We've seen each other most weekends since we started dating, but occasionally they'll get very wishy-washy, and then randomly call on a Friday to come visit. Waiting for them to decide whether they want to hang out is terrible. To be clear, I will make plans and ask them to join, and they will say that they just need to wait to see how they feel.
3) In conversations about these topics, they are very emotionally self-aware, but don't express much interest in changing. For planning, they've said things like, "Call me on a Sunday at 11am, that is probably a good time for me to plan." Or they will say, "I will talk to my boss about planning and get back to you," and then they just... don't.
We have talked, a couple of times, about the above issues. I have expressed that I feel SUPER ANXIOUS when I don't hear back from them for hours, especially when they are being cagey about making plans. I own that my response is my own response. They are very communicative about being in to me, wanting this to work out long-term, being committed, etc.
However, they also don't like to talk about their own emotions much. They identify as a 'stoic', and come from a taciturn family background, where discussing emotions could lead to heated arguments. They'll definitely own and recognize what their habits are, but they seem less willing to compromise. For example, if I say, "Let's check out this restaurant," and it's a restaurant they dislike, they might humor me but make passive aggressive comments about how terrible the place is while we're there.
We talk about 1x a week over phone, and we went on a camping trip about a month ago, so it's not like we have never made any plans. I just find that every week I go through the same intense anxiety, which disrupts my work day.
I'm in therapy, take a small dose of antidepressants, and exercise regularly. I also work full-time. However even with these things, I am in a somewhat brutal place emotionally. My therapist thinks that I should try some EMDR sessions before I call it quits in this relationship.
Is there a better way to talk about this with the person that I'm seeing? Is this a salvageable relationship when my reactions are so strong? I would like to stay with them, continue to communicate about my needs, and try to find a middle ground.
Thank you!
Someone who is into you will show you. Stop texting, planning and waiting and give him some space to do it. And if he takes his time and you make other plans because you never heard from him…oh well. If he finally decides that morning that he feels like going out with you and you’re not home because you had an offer from someone who actually does want to see you, that’s life, and if he waits too long and by the time he finally does get around to it, you’re dating someone else, that’s also the risk he takes.
Go out, live your life and show this guy you’re not waiting around for him on his schedule anymore. It’ll either put a rocket up him and he’ll act because he’s afraid of losing you or he will actually lose you. Either way, you win. Take your power back.
posted by Jubey at 2:28 AM on May 29, 2021 [37 favorites]
Go out, live your life and show this guy you’re not waiting around for him on his schedule anymore. It’ll either put a rocket up him and he’ll act because he’s afraid of losing you or he will actually lose you. Either way, you win. Take your power back.
posted by Jubey at 2:28 AM on May 29, 2021 [37 favorites]
I've done this exact thing, blaming my anxiety for my feelings when really it's their shitty behaviour. I very much doubt it will get better, from experience. I would step away and start dating others. There are people who are consistent and show enthusiasm, and as an anxious person you really need one of those. Read 'Attached' - it's become my bible on this front and so helpful for spotting the 'smoking guns'. ..
Also, the book says (plus experience) that because of your anxious attachment by now you will be feeling super attached to this person and be having strong feelings which will make you find it very difficult to break away. That's due to hormones, attachment style, all sorts of things- and doesn't mean this person is right for you. Break away!
posted by flimflamflop at 2:37 AM on May 29, 2021 [23 favorites]
Also, the book says (plus experience) that because of your anxious attachment by now you will be feeling super attached to this person and be having strong feelings which will make you find it very difficult to break away. That's due to hormones, attachment style, all sorts of things- and doesn't mean this person is right for you. Break away!
posted by flimflamflop at 2:37 AM on May 29, 2021 [23 favorites]
My therapist thinks that I should try some EMDR sessions before I call it quits in this relationship.
I think these should be two separate things. Do EMDR if you think it might help you with something in your life in general, not with respect to just this specific relationship, which you probably should call quits on because it sounds like he's just making you chase him all the time.
posted by trig at 4:04 AM on May 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
I think these should be two separate things. Do EMDR if you think it might help you with something in your life in general, not with respect to just this specific relationship, which you probably should call quits on because it sounds like he's just making you chase him all the time.
posted by trig at 4:04 AM on May 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
When I worked on the road a few years ago, my now-wife and I made an agreement of a guaranteed date every week. Through lockdown, that extended into two dates each week: Thursday going for a walk and sharing a beer; Saturday getting the papers, parking up on a country road, and reading them in the car while sipping hot coffee then going for a walk. Guaranteed dates are a good way of finding common ground and mutual interests.
posted by parmanparman at 4:32 AM on May 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by parmanparman at 4:32 AM on May 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
His behaviour says "I'm not very into you. If you make a massive effort every single time, maybe I'll show up. But I won't make consistent space for you in my life because who knows if I want to keep you? If I agree to see you on Saturday, I might not want to see you after all, by the time Friday rolls around. I'd rather keep all my options."
There's nothing wrong with you for feeling insecure. This is a normal reaction to his behaviour and you don't have to be the Cool Girlfriend who Doesn't Mind.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:48 AM on May 29, 2021 [30 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with you for feeling insecure. This is a normal reaction to his behaviour and you don't have to be the Cool Girlfriend who Doesn't Mind.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:48 AM on May 29, 2021 [30 favorites]
A 90 minute drive one way is not a "spontaneous let's wing it" set up. Ten minutes away allows for more spontaneity. If this person doesn't want to make plans to see you--because planning is needed--then it is probably time to let go.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 5:17 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by misanthropicsarah at 5:17 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
I have an uneasy feeling about this one. And I am a guy.
This guy wants the relationship ALL on his terms: if he feels like it, he'll grace you with his presence. If he doesn't feel like it, he won't even reply to your texts. You are basically a semi-regular booty-call. I am sorry this sounds harsh, but that's what he's doing. Did you drive to his town, or does he drive to yours?
It also feels like he's paying you just enough attention to keep you wanting and waiting, but not enough to satisfy you, and he can "frame" it as "you being needy" rather than "he has issues".
Do you REALLY enjoy this relationship... when you get it? If you feel miserable the rest of the time, then it's probably not worth it.
posted by kschang at 5:38 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
This guy wants the relationship ALL on his terms: if he feels like it, he'll grace you with his presence. If he doesn't feel like it, he won't even reply to your texts. You are basically a semi-regular booty-call. I am sorry this sounds harsh, but that's what he's doing. Did you drive to his town, or does he drive to yours?
It also feels like he's paying you just enough attention to keep you wanting and waiting, but not enough to satisfy you, and he can "frame" it as "you being needy" rather than "he has issues".
Do you REALLY enjoy this relationship... when you get it? If you feel miserable the rest of the time, then it's probably not worth it.
posted by kschang at 5:38 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
Some people really do like to leave everything up in the air - they feel their spontaneity is of higher value than the comfort of others. My brother is like this and he wonders why my husband and I, routine-based, plan-ahead people always say “no” to his 1/2 hour before leaving invites.
I think people who consistently put their own needs first like this are selfish. I prefer not to invest much time in relationships with selfish people.
In other words - your anxiety over this sounds completely normal to me. I wouldn’t be able to be in a relationship with the person you describe and I would not find the stress of trying worth it. There are so many lovely people in this world who would be more in sync with your planning preferences.
posted by hilaryjade at 5:40 AM on May 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think people who consistently put their own needs first like this are selfish. I prefer not to invest much time in relationships with selfish people.
In other words - your anxiety over this sounds completely normal to me. I wouldn’t be able to be in a relationship with the person you describe and I would not find the stress of trying worth it. There are so many lovely people in this world who would be more in sync with your planning preferences.
posted by hilaryjade at 5:40 AM on May 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just reading this gave me anxiety. I’d say it isn’t a match and to spare yourself misery by moving on.
posted by 41swans at 5:42 AM on May 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by 41swans at 5:42 AM on May 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. It sounds frustrating, anxiety provoking, and frankly kind of annoying. Through therapy I have realized I had a tendency to frame things as making me sad (depressed) or feel anxious when really I was just feeling disrespected or annoyed by people’s actions.
You don’t have to put up with this. Choose yourself. I notice you use the term seeing rather than dating and I wonder if he is somebody who would react to the word dating because they want to keep their options open.
You can decide whether or not that works for you. Once upon a time I put up with shit like that. At 37 I’m over it.
I’m cheering for you!!
posted by Juniper Toast at 6:17 AM on May 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
You don’t have to put up with this. Choose yourself. I notice you use the term seeing rather than dating and I wonder if he is somebody who would react to the word dating because they want to keep their options open.
You can decide whether or not that works for you. Once upon a time I put up with shit like that. At 37 I’m over it.
I’m cheering for you!!
posted by Juniper Toast at 6:17 AM on May 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
For example, if I say, "Let's check out this restaurant," and it's a restaurant they dislike, they might humor me but make passive aggressive comments about how terrible the place is while we're there.
Oh no. No no no. That is miserable and mean spirited.
This person is a douche. It's only been a few months: DTMFA.
posted by EllaEm at 6:31 AM on May 29, 2021 [42 favorites]
Oh no. No no no. That is miserable and mean spirited.
This person is a douche. It's only been a few months: DTMFA.
posted by EllaEm at 6:31 AM on May 29, 2021 [42 favorites]
It is much nicer being in a relationship with someone who is a planner and makes plans with you and then executed those plans with you and always lets you know where you stand. Those sorts of people are out there, too.
posted by slateyness at 6:44 AM on May 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by slateyness at 6:44 AM on May 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
I told someone in a different city (that I'll be traveling to a bit) recently that I'd still need to do some advance planning to see them and this person responded by telling me how much she delights in knowing the future via advance planning. Do you, or I, as anxious folks, need quite that level of loving planning? Maybe not, but there are better fits out there for you.
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:49 AM on May 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:49 AM on May 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
DTMFA. Whenever a dating partner has treated me like this, it has been because they were only semi-interested and they eventually dumped me. This guy is not respecting your time or wishes and he doesn't even care that he's making you anxious. Sure, he may be saying all the right things about being into you and such, but his behavior isn't backing that up. He's only into you on his own terms and that's not good enough, is it?
Your anxiety is NOT to blame. His behavior is.
DTMFA.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 7:13 AM on May 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
Your anxiety is NOT to blame. His behavior is.
DTMFA.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 7:13 AM on May 29, 2021 [7 favorites]
I agree with everyone saying that this relationship doesn't seem worth the stress, based on what you've written here. And the bit about "I can only plan at 11am on Sunday" and the passive-aggressive comments are kind of awful. But maybe there's something really great about this guy that makes up for the other stuff, and so I'll try to answer based on your parameters of managing your anxiety while making the relationship work.
So, my mom is an organizer-planner with a side of untreated generalized anxiety disorder, and my dad is a "go with the flow" guy. They've been together for nearly 4 decades. While I obviously don't know what their marriage looks like from the inside, or what they were like when they first met, they are clearly able to make it work and seem reasonably happy.
The way they do that is by having my dad cede pretty much all planning/organizing to my mom. Which, yes, is emotional labor. This pretty much only works because they live in the same house, so when they wake up my mom can tell my dad what the "game plan" is. (This is how he words it. "What's the game plan?") If they are apart, my dad to his credit also recognizes that my mom gets super anxious if he doesn't text or call her back when he reaches his destination, etc, so he makes it a priority to do that. It's not something that's natural to him, but he does it so that my mom doesn't get stressed/worried/upset. My mom, for her part, respects his boundaries of "don't tell me today what we are doing in 5 months because that's overwhelming."
I don't know that this is the type of relationship I'd be comfortable in, myself, or that it's appropriate for a 3-month-old long-distance vs a 40-year-old same-house relationship. But at least for those two, they make it work by both of them coming to some degree of compromise about shared activities.
In your case, it sounds like so far you are doing all the compromising and he's showing up when he feels like it. No wonder you're anxious! Intermittent reinforcement like that is a classic manipulative tactic. So yeah despite trying really hard to answer with the constraint that you want to stay in the relationship, I'm going to have to join the chorus of DTMFA.
posted by basalganglia at 7:15 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
So, my mom is an organizer-planner with a side of untreated generalized anxiety disorder, and my dad is a "go with the flow" guy. They've been together for nearly 4 decades. While I obviously don't know what their marriage looks like from the inside, or what they were like when they first met, they are clearly able to make it work and seem reasonably happy.
The way they do that is by having my dad cede pretty much all planning/organizing to my mom. Which, yes, is emotional labor. This pretty much only works because they live in the same house, so when they wake up my mom can tell my dad what the "game plan" is. (This is how he words it. "What's the game plan?") If they are apart, my dad to his credit also recognizes that my mom gets super anxious if he doesn't text or call her back when he reaches his destination, etc, so he makes it a priority to do that. It's not something that's natural to him, but he does it so that my mom doesn't get stressed/worried/upset. My mom, for her part, respects his boundaries of "don't tell me today what we are doing in 5 months because that's overwhelming."
I don't know that this is the type of relationship I'd be comfortable in, myself, or that it's appropriate for a 3-month-old long-distance vs a 40-year-old same-house relationship. But at least for those two, they make it work by both of them coming to some degree of compromise about shared activities.
In your case, it sounds like so far you are doing all the compromising and he's showing up when he feels like it. No wonder you're anxious! Intermittent reinforcement like that is a classic manipulative tactic. So yeah despite trying really hard to answer with the constraint that you want to stay in the relationship, I'm going to have to join the chorus of DTMFA.
posted by basalganglia at 7:15 AM on May 29, 2021 [15 favorites]
This honestly sounds like someone keeping his time free because he’s dating other people too and waiting to see what happens with them. I would nope out of this one, and as others have stated it seems like manipulative behavior so I would expect him to put in more effort/planning once you break up with him in order to pull you in again. You’ve already seen how he treats you of his own accord, DTMFA.
Also one note about planning, there is big picture planning (we will hang out in X town on Sunday starting at noon) and small picture planning (we will go to x movie at 1:20 pm). It is normal for two people to make big picture plans in order to enable the small picture plans to happen. By not even indicating if and when he would spend time with you he’s making neither possible and that’s more proof that you’re a booty call/last choice in a rotation of people he’s dating.
posted by rogerroger at 7:38 AM on May 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
Also one note about planning, there is big picture planning (we will hang out in X town on Sunday starting at noon) and small picture planning (we will go to x movie at 1:20 pm). It is normal for two people to make big picture plans in order to enable the small picture plans to happen. By not even indicating if and when he would spend time with you he’s making neither possible and that’s more proof that you’re a booty call/last choice in a rotation of people he’s dating.
posted by rogerroger at 7:38 AM on May 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
i know the cat's already out of the bag 17 answers deep, but OP used "they" for their partner, not "he."
three months in is soooo early, like, still showing each other your best behavior early. this is their best behavior. this is, in fact, their best behavior even when, thanks to several conversations about this, they have all the information they need to make you feel comfortable in this relationship if they wanted! all i can think about is how many single people out there are more proactive about planning that you could be dating instead.
and just a personal note on the restaurant comments, that makes me so itchy as an anxious person because it reminds me of a partner who would never be honest about really trivial stuff like what restaurant he wanted to go to, and i ended up sooo anxious all the time trying to guess his feelings and avoid being blamed later for guessing wrong. like. there just has to be people out there that can communicate better! wouldn't that be nice?
posted by gaybobbie at 7:46 AM on May 29, 2021 [11 favorites]
three months in is soooo early, like, still showing each other your best behavior early. this is their best behavior. this is, in fact, their best behavior even when, thanks to several conversations about this, they have all the information they need to make you feel comfortable in this relationship if they wanted! all i can think about is how many single people out there are more proactive about planning that you could be dating instead.
and just a personal note on the restaurant comments, that makes me so itchy as an anxious person because it reminds me of a partner who would never be honest about really trivial stuff like what restaurant he wanted to go to, and i ended up sooo anxious all the time trying to guess his feelings and avoid being blamed later for guessing wrong. like. there just has to be people out there that can communicate better! wouldn't that be nice?
posted by gaybobbie at 7:46 AM on May 29, 2021 [11 favorites]
(I OP also labeled him a 34M)
Anyway, like misanthropicsarah, what jumped out to me was that this guy is committed to being spontaneous despite the fact he's dating someone 90min away. Out of curiosity, does he ever surprise you by spontaneously driving the 90min to see you? No?
We obviously don't know the full picture of this relationship (though the restaurant bit is concerning), but if you want to give it another shot, I'd demand one day a week to be a set-in-stone date day/night. That's a pretty normal request people make when they're dating someone. Before my partner and I moved in together, because we had hectic schedules we specified two days that were fairly set in stone, and one other "maybe" day that would be decided more last-minute. The set days could still change, but if they did it was generally agreed we'd meet up the next day. And committing to these days didn't mean we planned them in advance, just that we committed to seeing each other - we could still be spontaneous in our activities.
If this guy balks at committing to one day per week, I'd say it's best to end it.
posted by coffeecat at 8:22 AM on May 29, 2021 [8 favorites]
Anyway, like misanthropicsarah, what jumped out to me was that this guy is committed to being spontaneous despite the fact he's dating someone 90min away. Out of curiosity, does he ever surprise you by spontaneously driving the 90min to see you? No?
We obviously don't know the full picture of this relationship (though the restaurant bit is concerning), but if you want to give it another shot, I'd demand one day a week to be a set-in-stone date day/night. That's a pretty normal request people make when they're dating someone. Before my partner and I moved in together, because we had hectic schedules we specified two days that were fairly set in stone, and one other "maybe" day that would be decided more last-minute. The set days could still change, but if they did it was generally agreed we'd meet up the next day. And committing to these days didn't mean we planned them in advance, just that we committed to seeing each other - we could still be spontaneous in our activities.
If this guy balks at committing to one day per week, I'd say it's best to end it.
posted by coffeecat at 8:22 AM on May 29, 2021 [8 favorites]
Oh, I've dated versions of this guy.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion some folks have about how they must be seeing other people, keeping options open, etc. I believe you when you say "They are very communicative about being in to me, wanting this to work out long-term, being committed, etc."
But! Being into you and wanting this to work out isn't the same as being willing and able to make the effort to make that happen.
When I was a kid, I loved playing the piano and wanted to become a very good pianist and felt committed to that. Every time I went to a piano recital and heard the talented older students playing, I thought, "Yes! I want to be just like that!" But I hated practicing. I never wanted to do it. I always wanted to push it off until tomorrow, or ideally never.
The fact is, you have to practice to become a good pianist. And you have to pay attention to your partner's needs and be willing to do some work to meet them in order to have a good relationship. I am not cut out to be a pianist because as much as I truly love the idea, I'm not willing to put in the work. And I don't think this guy is cut out to be your partner for the same reason.
It's up to you to decide where your boundaries are and what you need in a relationship. When you've met someone who seems to really care about you and feels almost right, it can be hard to let that go. But I hope all these responses at least affirm for you that your needs and requests are utterly reasonable, and that contorting yourself into a person who has no needs is not a solution that will serve you well.
posted by ecs104 at 8:36 AM on May 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion some folks have about how they must be seeing other people, keeping options open, etc. I believe you when you say "They are very communicative about being in to me, wanting this to work out long-term, being committed, etc."
But! Being into you and wanting this to work out isn't the same as being willing and able to make the effort to make that happen.
When I was a kid, I loved playing the piano and wanted to become a very good pianist and felt committed to that. Every time I went to a piano recital and heard the talented older students playing, I thought, "Yes! I want to be just like that!" But I hated practicing. I never wanted to do it. I always wanted to push it off until tomorrow, or ideally never.
The fact is, you have to practice to become a good pianist. And you have to pay attention to your partner's needs and be willing to do some work to meet them in order to have a good relationship. I am not cut out to be a pianist because as much as I truly love the idea, I'm not willing to put in the work. And I don't think this guy is cut out to be your partner for the same reason.
It's up to you to decide where your boundaries are and what you need in a relationship. When you've met someone who seems to really care about you and feels almost right, it can be hard to let that go. But I hope all these responses at least affirm for you that your needs and requests are utterly reasonable, and that contorting yourself into a person who has no needs is not a solution that will serve you well.
posted by ecs104 at 8:36 AM on May 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
Do you want to be with someone who needs to be prodded into hanging out with you, and is never even confident that he is going to feel like seeing you?
I would find this pretty soul-crushing. Most people would. You're not the problem! You sound like a great partner.
I believe you that he's not shitty all the time. I suspect that part of the reason you feel so attached to this guy is that he's running hot and cold like this. It's human nature to be hooked by intermittent rewards in relationships. Maybe he's doing it deliberately, maybe not, but either way it's a trap that will never not make you miserable, not dating anyone is much better than this situation, and there are better ones out there, I promise.
posted by Squalor Victoria at 9:25 AM on May 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
I would find this pretty soul-crushing. Most people would. You're not the problem! You sound like a great partner.
I believe you that he's not shitty all the time. I suspect that part of the reason you feel so attached to this guy is that he's running hot and cold like this. It's human nature to be hooked by intermittent rewards in relationships. Maybe he's doing it deliberately, maybe not, but either way it's a trap that will never not make you miserable, not dating anyone is much better than this situation, and there are better ones out there, I promise.
posted by Squalor Victoria at 9:25 AM on May 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
So, I think that it sounds like you're not compatible. They sound like they're generally an avoidant person, especially when it comes to emotion. And that passive aggressive stuff about restaurant choices is instructive for how this person does manage their feelings.
But there are two things happening here: one is the incompatibility, and the other is your body's response to it. It sounds like it's triggering you, and that it's having a negative impact on your daily life. That sucks, and I'm really sorry. I was in a really similar situation with my last ex (although they started out making plans with me, moved to the behavior you describe, and then faded out and ghosted me). It was also legitimately triggering a lot of trauma for me, and I needed to get it taken care of.
I did do EMDR (after we broke up), but I find it kind of curious that your therapist thinks you should try EMDR while still "sticking it out" with this person. It is my understanding, having undergone EMDR with multiple therapists, that you need to be in a relatively stable place and not experiencing regular trauma for it to be a safe therapeutic mode. If the things that this person is doing are triggering a trauma response in you, it might make more sense to quit seeing this person; process your feelings about it with your current therapist; and then in a month or two when you're feeling like you're not being regularly triggered, try EMDR. I am not a medical professional so take this with a grain of salt, but I have been told that it is legitimately not safe to do EMDR while you are experiencing regular triggers. Trauma therapy is really hard work but it can help unlock some of this stuff. Take care.
posted by twelve cent archie at 10:32 AM on May 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
But there are two things happening here: one is the incompatibility, and the other is your body's response to it. It sounds like it's triggering you, and that it's having a negative impact on your daily life. That sucks, and I'm really sorry. I was in a really similar situation with my last ex (although they started out making plans with me, moved to the behavior you describe, and then faded out and ghosted me). It was also legitimately triggering a lot of trauma for me, and I needed to get it taken care of.
I did do EMDR (after we broke up), but I find it kind of curious that your therapist thinks you should try EMDR while still "sticking it out" with this person. It is my understanding, having undergone EMDR with multiple therapists, that you need to be in a relatively stable place and not experiencing regular trauma for it to be a safe therapeutic mode. If the things that this person is doing are triggering a trauma response in you, it might make more sense to quit seeing this person; process your feelings about it with your current therapist; and then in a month or two when you're feeling like you're not being regularly triggered, try EMDR. I am not a medical professional so take this with a grain of salt, but I have been told that it is legitimately not safe to do EMDR while you are experiencing regular triggers. Trauma therapy is really hard work but it can help unlock some of this stuff. Take care.
posted by twelve cent archie at 10:32 AM on May 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
Red flags all the way with this guy. I’d be shocked if he was not dating multiple people. Yes, perhaps you have personal work to do in terms of your anxiety; but this guy is not for you. Stop putting yourself through hell. This is not how good relationships work.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
It’s become clear to me over the years that how a person plans their time is REALLY important when it comes to compatibility. I am a person who plans. If my partner was acting the way your dating partner is, I would also be feeling the anxiety you feel. Waiting to “see how they feel” before committing to a plan? No. Freakin. Way. Some people are fine with this casual way of existing, but not I. And maybe not you. I’m sorry you’re feeling so anxious. Listen to those feelings!
posted by sucre at 2:51 PM on May 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by sucre at 2:51 PM on May 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have expressed that I feel SUPER ANXIOUS when I don't hear back from them for hours, especially when they are being cagey about making plans. I own that my response is my own response.
I don't understand the purpose of expressing this scrupulous 'ownership' of your emotions that seems to falsely deny a connection between his actions and your anxiety. it seems simpler to just tell him YES, his communication or silence has a regular and predictable effect on you and you require him to change his habits for you. that is the only thing that needs to be owned.
I understand the anxiety of not wanting to directly ask for something you don't think you'll get, but from the outside it looks like an excruciating one-player boundary game of laying out all the dots but refusing to connect them, because you want him to be the one who makes the effort of connecting them. or because you feel it's unfair to ask for him to change his whole relationship style and interpersonal habits just for you. Maybe it feels like overstepping to translate a wish into a demand. Maybe it is overstepping, significantly. But it's what you want! and communicating with no pressure will not get it for you. "It would make me feel better if" is not "I can't keep seeing you unless". As long as you keep seeing him, he will think he is doing well enough.
& it might be that "just make firm plans" for him is the equivalent of "just stop being anxious" for you. but I think that whether you take him to ultimatum city or not, you ought to stop worrying about self-policing things like self-awareness and owning your responses and maintaining boundaries. simply do what you want. Text at whatever "tempo" feels right to you, and trust that if it's too much for him HE will say so. If you have something new to tell him, who cares if he's replied to your last text yet?
and lastly, if you want to do something next weekend and he says Ask me again on the day, tell him "I'm making weekend plans now, so I'll have to take that as a no." Automatically adjusting to his "tempo" in all things is a losing game, even if - especially if - he turned out to be the love of your life.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:44 PM on May 29, 2021 [11 favorites]
I don't understand the purpose of expressing this scrupulous 'ownership' of your emotions that seems to falsely deny a connection between his actions and your anxiety. it seems simpler to just tell him YES, his communication or silence has a regular and predictable effect on you and you require him to change his habits for you. that is the only thing that needs to be owned.
I understand the anxiety of not wanting to directly ask for something you don't think you'll get, but from the outside it looks like an excruciating one-player boundary game of laying out all the dots but refusing to connect them, because you want him to be the one who makes the effort of connecting them. or because you feel it's unfair to ask for him to change his whole relationship style and interpersonal habits just for you. Maybe it feels like overstepping to translate a wish into a demand. Maybe it is overstepping, significantly. But it's what you want! and communicating with no pressure will not get it for you. "It would make me feel better if" is not "I can't keep seeing you unless". As long as you keep seeing him, he will think he is doing well enough.
& it might be that "just make firm plans" for him is the equivalent of "just stop being anxious" for you. but I think that whether you take him to ultimatum city or not, you ought to stop worrying about self-policing things like self-awareness and owning your responses and maintaining boundaries. simply do what you want. Text at whatever "tempo" feels right to you, and trust that if it's too much for him HE will say so. If you have something new to tell him, who cares if he's replied to your last text yet?
and lastly, if you want to do something next weekend and he says Ask me again on the day, tell him "I'm making weekend plans now, so I'll have to take that as a no." Automatically adjusting to his "tempo" in all things is a losing game, even if - especially if - he turned out to be the love of your life.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:44 PM on May 29, 2021 [11 favorites]
This person is calling all the shots and dangling you on a string, making you wait around for them to decide if they want to see you. No wonder you're anxious! (I've been there, by the way).
It's really unfair, but you don't have to tolerate it. You don't need to wait, and you don't need to worry. You can end it, and find someone who respects your time.
Also, this person likely has an avoidant attachment style meaning they are not comfortable in relationships unless they keep their partner at a distance by doing such things as not making plans, being non-communicative, or even "keeping their options open". These types of behaviors make their partner's anxiety increase, especially if that person already has an anxious attachment style. It's a push-pull type of situation. I recommend reading the book "Attached".
posted by bearette at 4:49 PM on May 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's really unfair, but you don't have to tolerate it. You don't need to wait, and you don't need to worry. You can end it, and find someone who respects your time.
Also, this person likely has an avoidant attachment style meaning they are not comfortable in relationships unless they keep their partner at a distance by doing such things as not making plans, being non-communicative, or even "keeping their options open". These types of behaviors make their partner's anxiety increase, especially if that person already has an anxious attachment style. It's a push-pull type of situation. I recommend reading the book "Attached".
posted by bearette at 4:49 PM on May 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
This jumped out at me too:
For example, if I say, "Let's check out this restaurant," and it's a restaurant they dislike, they might humor me but make passive aggressive comments about how terrible the place is while we're there.
This is bad. I used to date someone like this, and it was a double whammy of a) forcing me to do all the labor of researching/choosing, and b) secretly giving him another avenue for being patronizing and critical of everything I did. Super fun. It might seem like a little thing but it really isn't. I am not you, but in my case it was part of a larger pattern where me constantly walking on eggshells was a feature, not a bug.
Some people refuse to verbalize what they want, but get huffy when partners/friends don't intuit it correctly, or don't drop everything to cater to them when they finally make up their damn minds. Those people are just exhausting, especially to anxious people. I notice you said your anxiety has sky-rocketed since you started dating, which makes me think you manage it OK with your friends? So I don't think it's just brainweasels on your part; I think this person is at minimum just not the best match, and at worst is actively stringing you along. "I really like to have solid plans and you don't, and you don't seem to be interested in compromising on that" is a perfectly cromulent reason to break up.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 6:45 AM on May 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
For example, if I say, "Let's check out this restaurant," and it's a restaurant they dislike, they might humor me but make passive aggressive comments about how terrible the place is while we're there.
This is bad. I used to date someone like this, and it was a double whammy of a) forcing me to do all the labor of researching/choosing, and b) secretly giving him another avenue for being patronizing and critical of everything I did. Super fun. It might seem like a little thing but it really isn't. I am not you, but in my case it was part of a larger pattern where me constantly walking on eggshells was a feature, not a bug.
Some people refuse to verbalize what they want, but get huffy when partners/friends don't intuit it correctly, or don't drop everything to cater to them when they finally make up their damn minds. Those people are just exhausting, especially to anxious people. I notice you said your anxiety has sky-rocketed since you started dating, which makes me think you manage it OK with your friends? So I don't think it's just brainweasels on your part; I think this person is at minimum just not the best match, and at worst is actively stringing you along. "I really like to have solid plans and you don't, and you don't seem to be interested in compromising on that" is a perfectly cromulent reason to break up.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 6:45 AM on May 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hi,
As others have pointed out, using "I am super-anxious" as a preamble to how your needs are not being met dilutes the whole issue and lets him off the hook.
Yes, managing one's emotions is a personal responsibility, but just because you have anxiety doesn't mean your relationship needs to be a disappointment.
For the texting issue, it doesn't sound like you reached any compromise--he made a (possibly) sincere attempt to provide daily validation or whatever, and then reverted back. So, as adults, you revisit it and work on something that will work for both of you--something more nuanced than "respond to each text I send with in 2 hours". Something more forthright than self regulating your texts to match his.
That said, you should have enough faith in this relationship so a missed text does not translate into rejection.
Is this the way he rolls? Some people surround themselves with others who take up the slack.
I’d stop making that effort for a while and see how it pans out. If he says on Tuesday he doesn't know if he'll be available on Saturday, you can make other plans, or spend the rest of the week obsessing over it. You could also punt it to later in the week.
As far as the restaurant episode, for your own benefit, calling people in on their behavior is a good skill to have. People like this complain because they get away with it. Some of my family members can be negative and critical. I've learned, when needed, to calmly ask them to knock it off, and stop killing my buzz. It actually works.
This guy might not be as much of a jerk as he comes across, but even if he is a good dude, and anxiety or no anxiety, you are not getting what you want. That is the great aspect about dating--you get to walk away when it is not working.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 7:21 AM on May 30, 2021
As others have pointed out, using "I am super-anxious" as a preamble to how your needs are not being met dilutes the whole issue and lets him off the hook.
Yes, managing one's emotions is a personal responsibility, but just because you have anxiety doesn't mean your relationship needs to be a disappointment.
For the texting issue, it doesn't sound like you reached any compromise--he made a (possibly) sincere attempt to provide daily validation or whatever, and then reverted back. So, as adults, you revisit it and work on something that will work for both of you--something more nuanced than "respond to each text I send with in 2 hours". Something more forthright than self regulating your texts to match his.
That said, you should have enough faith in this relationship so a missed text does not translate into rejection.
Is this the way he rolls? Some people surround themselves with others who take up the slack.
I’d stop making that effort for a while and see how it pans out. If he says on Tuesday he doesn't know if he'll be available on Saturday, you can make other plans, or spend the rest of the week obsessing over it. You could also punt it to later in the week.
As far as the restaurant episode, for your own benefit, calling people in on their behavior is a good skill to have. People like this complain because they get away with it. Some of my family members can be negative and critical. I've learned, when needed, to calmly ask them to knock it off, and stop killing my buzz. It actually works.
This guy might not be as much of a jerk as he comes across, but even if he is a good dude, and anxiety or no anxiety, you are not getting what you want. That is the great aspect about dating--you get to walk away when it is not working.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 7:21 AM on May 30, 2021
Sounds to me like he’s got a partner or spouse and is being dishonest with them about the fact he’s seeing you - “see how I feel on the day” meaning he has to see if his partner will want his presence that day and if not he can “go to the golf course” or whatever excuse he uses but actually go see you. The texting situation might be explained by this hypothesis as well, he might not always have privacy when he expects it! Nothing wrong with dating multiple people or open / poly relationships, but dishonesty at this level is worth looking at. I could totally be wrong but this would be my first thought !
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 7:50 AM on May 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 7:50 AM on May 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I had to re-read the ages. I thought he was a good 15 years younger than 34!
Judging solely from the information you have provided us: he’s just not that in to you.
Even the most chill, non-anxious person would get frustrated as all hell at this behavior.
Keep your options open. Stop revolving your entire life around his wishy-washy non-schedule. Think about it: if this were a friend acting like that, how would it make you feel? You’d feel like you were this friend’s 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even 6th priority, right? Yet you are making excuses for this guy and blaming your anxiety.
Be kinder to yourself, please.
posted by Neekee at 10:17 AM on May 30, 2021
Judging solely from the information you have provided us: he’s just not that in to you.
Even the most chill, non-anxious person would get frustrated as all hell at this behavior.
Keep your options open. Stop revolving your entire life around his wishy-washy non-schedule. Think about it: if this were a friend acting like that, how would it make you feel? You’d feel like you were this friend’s 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even 6th priority, right? Yet you are making excuses for this guy and blaming your anxiety.
Be kinder to yourself, please.
posted by Neekee at 10:17 AM on May 30, 2021
I get the feeling that Mr. "I Don't Wanna Commit" only wants to see you when he's bored/horny/lonely and otherwise doesn't want to.
Sigh. What everyone else said. He's not that into you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 PM on May 30, 2021
Sigh. What everyone else said. He's not that into you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:54 PM on May 30, 2021
There's a reason for your anxiety - something's up with your relationship. Based on what you've posted, you're not a priority in his life.
posted by GiveUpNed at 1:50 PM on May 31, 2021
posted by GiveUpNed at 1:50 PM on May 31, 2021
I realize this is an old thread but it was buried in my tabs and being that the comment box is still here I thought I'd finally chime in: I am this guy.
I'm not punctual and I'm not much of a planner. You are. I know it's a bad habit of mine and I'm substantially older than both of you. It's a nurture thing and there are a lot of basic social courtesies like this that my parents simply did not train into me beyond commands, lecturing, and then exasperation and mockery about how late I could manage to be after I was on my own. I have been an hour late to my own birthday restaurant reservation! Point being, nothing I could read about attachment styles or love languages or anything helped.
The last woman I dated was a planner, lived only 10 minutes away, and it was a real problem that should have told (at least) me that we simply weren't compatible for (mostly) this reason. We spent months if not a year butting heads over making dinner plans in advance, the weekend, etc. which resulted in a kind of resentful detente. After about two years (out of three total) she stopped telling me what her schedule was like and I more or less hung my part of the (gradually deteriorating) relationship on whatever time we could agree on to do something outside of her job. To really "put the eyebrows on" this, one instance of my planning habits resulted in me not being able to attend her mother's funeral in another state. At the same time, I was absolutely into her, monogamous, supportive, complimentary, giving, and many of the other foundational qualities I and any woman with whom I was creating a relationship should have. Turns out that time-management can be a relationship keystone.
We wound up seeing a couples counselor, where I learned that the resentment I felt about her company-bus commute, which had a stop near my apartment, which she never hopped of at to pop by my place, was pointless because she had stopped taking that bus many months before. We broke up about two weeks later.
Six months after this post I hope you're free of this battle. If you did in fact come to a comfortable agreement or each of you compromised, that's wonderful, but if not, I believe there is someone out there with all of this guy's positive qualities who won't grate you on this point.
posted by rhizome at 10:58 AM on December 28, 2021
I'm not punctual and I'm not much of a planner. You are. I know it's a bad habit of mine and I'm substantially older than both of you. It's a nurture thing and there are a lot of basic social courtesies like this that my parents simply did not train into me beyond commands, lecturing, and then exasperation and mockery about how late I could manage to be after I was on my own. I have been an hour late to my own birthday restaurant reservation! Point being, nothing I could read about attachment styles or love languages or anything helped.
The last woman I dated was a planner, lived only 10 minutes away, and it was a real problem that should have told (at least) me that we simply weren't compatible for (mostly) this reason. We spent months if not a year butting heads over making dinner plans in advance, the weekend, etc. which resulted in a kind of resentful detente. After about two years (out of three total) she stopped telling me what her schedule was like and I more or less hung my part of the (gradually deteriorating) relationship on whatever time we could agree on to do something outside of her job. To really "put the eyebrows on" this, one instance of my planning habits resulted in me not being able to attend her mother's funeral in another state. At the same time, I was absolutely into her, monogamous, supportive, complimentary, giving, and many of the other foundational qualities I and any woman with whom I was creating a relationship should have. Turns out that time-management can be a relationship keystone.
We wound up seeing a couples counselor, where I learned that the resentment I felt about her company-bus commute, which had a stop near my apartment, which she never hopped of at to pop by my place, was pointless because she had stopped taking that bus many months before. We broke up about two weeks later.
Six months after this post I hope you're free of this battle. If you did in fact come to a comfortable agreement or each of you compromised, that's wonderful, but if not, I believe there is someone out there with all of this guy's positive qualities who won't grate you on this point.
posted by rhizome at 10:58 AM on December 28, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
Everything is on this person's terms. No wonder you feel anxious.
Just because you express to him how his behaviour makes you feel, doesn't mean you have to accept the terms of this relationship, because they seem to all be in his favour.
I think you need to call it quits right now. From what you're saying, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you or your expectations here, he is just incapable of meeting them. I don't think any more communication, or all-consuming energy and angst, all on your part, will change this dynamic.
posted by NatalieWood at 1:05 AM on May 29, 2021 [66 favorites]