Who is at fault?
May 26, 2021 12:57 PM   Subscribe

My question here is a simple one. Two weeks ago when I found out I had to move I called some movers in town then remembered my good friend is a mover with a very reputable company so I called for his company. He assured me I could use not only his company (more to come)

But him as well and he gave me his bosses number and said for me to use him as a reference. I did. I ended up getting a very good rate and the last day of the month, right before the holiday, which is always very hard to do. Ok so I find out that its Sunday and was told by my friend that he doesnt work on sunday so they would send two more guys. However I didnt know that NONE of them work Sundays I just thought he meant him. Well I kept trying to call him back and got nothing for two weeks. Then I find out his kid has been in the hospital over the weekend so he didnt have time to discuss why he hasnt called me back only I could not get a hold of anyone at his job since I forgot the bosses number and now I lost my date and it's too late to find another mover. He knows I have been trying to call and text but his response ,"My kids come first" was basically the first thing he said to defend not answering. I'm just floored how I'm supposed to get my stuff moved with only a week notice and no one to help and i feel it is his fault since he promised he would be there. What do you think i did wrong?
posted by The_imp_inimpossible to Human Relations (32 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
So the moving company told you they'd move you on Sunday and then they didn't show up? I think you're putting too much on your friend. He gave you a recommendation, and you said you arranged it through the 'bosses'. Why are you contacting your friend about this? Work directly with the moving company.

If you had arranged this with the company, wouldn't you have paperwork to that effect? Losing the company's number isn't a reason to start bugging your friend. I think you crossed the line here.
posted by hydra77 at 1:06 PM on May 26, 2021 [29 favorites]


I’m not clear on something: when you didn’t get an answer from your friend for two weeks, why didn’t you just call the general company number directly and ask for clarification? It seems that if that much time went by without an answer, you were getting a pretty clear signal that something was up and you were going to have to resort to other ways of making appropriate arrangements. That you didn’t do that isn’t your friend’s fault.
posted by holborne at 1:11 PM on May 26, 2021 [14 favorites]


1. I am sorry this is happening, it sucks in any case.

2. I feel like there is a missing piece. The company agreed to move you on Sunday but then it turns out they are not open on Sunday?

3. Your friend was a bad communicator but "I lost his bosses number" also doesn't really work. I get that you wanted to work through your friend, that's a good impulse, but when this started to slide sideways that is when you needed to call the "reputable company" who certainly gave you some paperwork or something besides just their word? I'm sure the company is Googleable for a phone number.

4. I'd try calling back for two days before I started to escalate this situation. I understand why you did what you did but the fact that you waited for a call back for two weeks is your issue (I am the same, would have done the same, I just know it would have been my responsibility)

5. He's trying to be a good parent, without knowing more that answer seems like what you're going to get from him for now.

So in short, this situation sucks, mistakes or unhelpful directions were taken by both sides but you're the one who needs to solve this problem, I might take it up again with your friend's company and see if they have something else to offer you.
posted by jessamyn at 1:12 PM on May 26, 2021 [20 favorites]


If this is a legitimate moving company, there should have been a way to find the number. Your arrangement was with them, not your friend.
I'm sorry this happened, and it would have been nice for your friend to call back, but you didn't know why he wasn't calling back. There are hundreds of reasons he could have been unreachable, some quite dire. For all you knew, he was in a coma. I think that over two weeks of calling with him not responding, you should have figured out you needed a new plan.
posted by FencingGal at 1:13 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


I'm confused why you were going after your friend instead of the moving company -- ok, you lost the boss's phone number, but don't they have a website or a yellow pages entry or something you could have called instead?

Did you actually have a contract with the movers?
posted by ook at 1:14 PM on May 26, 2021 [6 favorites]


I'm still stuck on how you got a confirmed date from the boss for a Sunday move when no one works on Sundays? You had no written record of the appointment and arrangements you made with the boss? I'm also wondering how a reputable moving company doesn't have a single way to contact them besides trying to get to them through your friend?

I'm sorry and this sounds stressful, but I'm not sure why you wasted two weeks trying to contact your friend when there must have been other options for getting a hold of the company directly. If you're in the US, most businesses can be Googled or found on Yelp or similar review sites. Even your phone's call records could have revealed the number you called to reach the boss since you lost the number. Did you just concentrate on contacting your friend who was not responding for 2 weeks (because of a very understandable personal crisis with his kid) instead of being resourceful about finding a way to follow up with the company? To answer your question, I don't see how this is his fault. He gave you the number of his boss and the rest was up to you. Good luck with finding a moving option.
posted by quince at 1:24 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


So you never got a written contract, only your friend's promise, which then fell through?
Is this an "under the table" job or something?

I mean, this is why written contracts are recommended...anything else is a risk.

Sick child, if true, is an excellent reason for dropping the ball. But of course it sucks to be in your shoes as a result. I think "who's at fault" is the worst thing for you to focus on now, because it won't help you at all. You did post about your unforgiving Taurus personality, once - now is not the time to unleash that part of you!

Focus on calling that company (or if that doesn't get you anywhere, any other company, or ask for concrete suggestions on askme) and see if you can find some kind of workable solution. You need this to work. Pour your energies into that.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:26 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


I think you misunderstood your friend's role in this arrangement.

Your friend was only providing a referral to their company. However, you incorrectly believed that your friend was acting as your advocate/broker and tried to send messages through the friend.

Once you called the moving company yourself, your friend has nothing to do with the arrangement, regardless of whether they were working on that day or not. They aren't going to relay messages or advocate on your behalf, because they're not part of the relationship. When you started to contact your friend about problems that they were never interested in or able to solve, that's one of the reasons they stopped responding to you.
posted by meowzilla at 1:36 PM on May 26, 2021 [23 favorites]


Worry about who's at fault later. You need advice on finding movers or help.
posted by amtho at 1:37 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


Since you're asking who's at fault as your question... I'm going to have to say you unfortunately. Your friend did his part - he got you in contact with his boss. You lost the bosses number. And the thing with sunday sounds like the moving company is a little disorganized, or maybe there was a miscommunication - why would they book you for a date they dont work? Meanwhile you didn't try and call anyone else or do anything different for two weeks. You put all your eggs in this one iffy basket, and the basket fell apart. I'm sorry this happened, but it's a lesson for next time to make sure you get things in writing and buttoned up before it's too late.
posted by cgg at 1:51 PM on May 26, 2021


Your friend is right that children come first.

There's an episode in the movie Short Cuts by Robert Altman where a family orders a birthday cake for their kid from a small local bakery. Then they don't come and pick it up. The baker starts calling them on the phone, over and over again, harassing them, trying to get them to come pick up the cake. He calls them all night long, through the night. It turns out their in the hospital with their kid who has been hit by a car and eventually dies.

Get over it. Call the moving company. Your friend is with his kid who is in the hospital.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:03 PM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thanks for the feedback. If it clears things up I had my friends phone number so I called him. He told me he was able to help but I had to put it in the schedule which his boss has to make. Since I used him as a reference I was under the impression and he said himself "I got you" so the boss put me in the calendar but said if my friend agreed to do it it was ok but they dont usually work sundays. It was not put into a contract or paperwork because I had to confirm that my friend would be there. It was after that call that I found out he doesnt work Sundays then by that time they had closed so I never got back a hold of his boss because my work week went crazy I tried to call but the number wasnt answering, my friend didnt respond so before i knew it two weeks had passed and i had no way of knowing until then that i was screwed. But thanks for your input I just didnt get the whole picture.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 2:06 PM on May 26, 2021


Your friend is at fault. He was the person organising it all for you and knew everyone involved so he should have seen it through to the end. He can't suddenly drop out or take his eye off the ball halfway through. If it was me doing my friend a favour then I would make sure that favour got done. It's the right thing to do.

Sick child = moot unless the kid got sick exactly the same weekend you had to move. I'm not sure I get the timeline of events. Were you due to move 2 weeks before the kid got sick? If you heard nothing for two weeks and the kid got sick on the final weekend of the 2 weeks then your friend only has an excuse for 2 days. What was he doing for the 12 days prior???? Also are you telling me the man didn't leave the kid's side for one second to browse the internet? He could have sent a quick message.

It serves as a reminder to not rely on him in future.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 2:16 PM on May 26, 2021 [2 favorites]


Ok, so it sounds like your friend was hoping it could be fit into his job schedule and be absorbed into his regular work as a formal thing. And it sounds like his boss figured nah, if we're doing friend discounts you can do that on your own time. And they didn't talk that through with each other or with you. Kind of a crap situation for everyone, honestly, except for the boss.

Something I've come to learn in my life is that stress is a percentage of the cost of any service. You can usually buy the right to less stress. Moving is one of those situations for sure. Think of the physical act of moving as costing $x. It costs $y to purchase away your stress on moving day by upgrading the company/number of movers/service level/insurance on that move.
posted by phunniemee at 2:19 PM on May 26, 2021 [16 favorites]


Who is at fault?

I forgot the bosses number

That would be you.
posted by flabdablet at 2:23 PM on May 26, 2021 [8 favorites]


But how is it ok for you not to follow up with your own move because your “work week got crazy,” but at the same time it’s not ok for him to not follow up because his kid was in the hospital?
posted by holborne at 2:24 PM on May 26, 2021 [58 favorites]


Even with your clarification, I’m really confused about who promised what and when, so I’m not surprised to hear that there was some bad communication flying all around.

But ultimately, if you did not make time to call the *company* and get the *company* to confirm you had a slot on this date that was so important to you, that’s on you.

It sucks that your friend was hard to reach, but if I understand correctly what happened here, he’d already told you he wasn’t available that day after all. You should have then worked with the company. You didn’t. He didn’t communicate well, but his child was hospitalized and you already knew he wasn’t available, and as far as he knew you had the information to contact his boss. It’s completely understandable that you weren’t near the top of his priority list for a couple of weeks.

Spend your time and energy fixing your moving situation. Make sure your friend’s kid is okay. At some point after all that, if you’re still put out about this, take it up with your friend. Assigning blame isn’t going to help anything for you right now.
posted by Stacey at 2:30 PM on May 26, 2021 [6 favorites]


before i knew it two weeks had passed

This is the bit where your argument kind of falls apart. You had a really important task that needed arranging but somehow you blanked out on two whole weeks when you could have been making steps to sort it out, either by calling the company number more often, or when they and your friend failed to answer, finding another company instead. It’s hard to see how you not sorting it for two weeks is anyone else’s fault, and the fact your friend’s kid turns out to be in the hospital only cements that.

But seconding everyone else that the description is pretty confusing, which suggests nobody was clear about what was happening, and that assigning blame doesn’t seem like a useful thing to be doing here. Asking your friend whether there’s anything he needs with his kid being so sick sounds like a good thing to do next if you haven’t already.
posted by penguin pie at 2:59 PM on May 26, 2021 [28 favorites]


Honestly, the fault is the company's. It's a moving company. They specialize in ... moving things on specific days. They should never have booked you for a Sunday to start with, if they don't work Sundays. It's like a restaurant booking a reservation for party of 23 for a Monday, when they know they aren't open on Mondays. Big fail on basics.

I can totally see where the rest of the stress crept in, and I'd guess you owe your friend an apology for pestering him about your thing when he really needed your support, and he maybe owes you an apology for ghosting where you'll immediately say "none needed" because kid, hospital, but the booking was where it started.
posted by Dashy at 3:24 PM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]


It sounds like the friend's boss was making the job dependent on your friend's attendance (since it's not a normal working day), then your friend said they wouldn't, so there was actually no agreement or contract in place. So it would fall back to you to figure out what happens next.

Your friend made a confusing statement when they said "two other people would go in their place" because it's not clear if they had the ability to make this happen, nor did the boss agree to this statement. It would have been your responsibility to relay this to the boss, which you did not, in order to move the discussion forward.
posted by meowzilla at 3:37 PM on May 26, 2021 [3 favorites]


I don't see how this is the company's fault. The friend offered to help out using the resources of his company? But things had to be worked out to make it official so that things would be on the schedule. Boss made it clear they don't work on Sundays and it was on friend to confirm that he'd be willing to do the work on a Sunday. Friend finds out the work would be on a Sunday and flakes out, but promises to get other guys.

"Ok so I find out that its Sunday and was told by my friend that he doesnt work on sunday so they would send two more guys."

Did your friend promise to round up other guys? Did he say that directly to you? If yes, I think the friend dropping off the grid is not cool, but in the end, it's your move and when you say things like how your work week got crazy and then two weeks had gone by, that's on you.
posted by Fukiyama at 3:38 PM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]


Agreed that the top priority should be finding another mover. There's still 5 days this month. Maybe your friend can put you in touch with a couple coworkers who want some extra cash and will work on a Sunday if you offer enough money (definitely don't expect a discount), but you should be chasing all leads, and calling any moving company you can find at this point. And if you go to/through your friend, you should definitely recognize that you are asking him for another big favor, not collecting on some promise that he owes you.


But the whole situation is still a bit confusing. Where did the Sunday idea come from in the first place? Did your friend offer to move you on Sunday, or did you ask for Sunday? It seems like if the company doesn't normally work Sundays, the boss probably wouldn't have offered it to you without some reason. Or did you ask for a the last day of the month without realizing what day of the week it was? But that doesn't even check out, since the last day of this month is May 31, which is a Monday.

The only thing I can even imagine is that you called the boss and asked for May 30 thinking it was the last day of the month, and since that was a Sunday, he thought that he was approving some sort of personal favor, "friends and family" type deal - maybe even just renting the truck but not paying for the labor. Maybe then he called your friend and verified that he'd agreed to take a job for free/reduced pay on his day off, and your friend thought you were trying to pull a fast one on him? Maybe his expectation of how you would use his name didn't match what you actually did -- he thought he'd look good to the boss for making a sale, and the move would be scheduled on a normal business day, at the normal rate, just like you were any other customer, but instead, he's somehow ended up becoming obligated to work on his day off, for free/reduced pay? I have no way to know what happened when you called to book the move (and I might be projecting a bit), but if something like that happened, he might not have been very happy even before he had a family emergency.
posted by yuwtze at 3:43 PM on May 26, 2021 [7 favorites]


The company made a commitment, then bailed. Let your friend off the hook, ask the company to get you moved. Be prepared to pay more and tip well.
posted by theora55 at 5:12 PM on May 26, 2021


seconding everyone else that the description is pretty confusing, which suggests nobody was clear about what was happening, and that assigning blame doesn’t seem like a useful thing to be doing here

I wholeheartedly agree with this, although I will say that it sounds like everybody could get a piece of this blame pie. No one in this scenario seems to be communicating clearly, which sort of explains why no one in this scenario knows what is going on.

Have you actually talked to the moving company at all at this point? Any moving companies? I worry that you are wasting time trying to figure out who to be upset with, time that would be better spent trying to figure out how to make this move happen.
posted by sm1tten at 5:50 PM on May 26, 2021 [2 favorites]


It sounds like the friend's boss was making the job dependent on your friend's attendance (since it's not a normal working day), then your friend said they wouldn't, so there was actually no agreement or contract in place.

Yeah, it sounds like your friend said he’d help get you a discount, which he did, but then you needed a weird day, so the boss was like “I’ll need to hear from this guy that he can for sure do it”, but the guy couldn’t, and no one else could. You thought you had a firm date when you DEFINITELY DID NOT.

This is in no way on your friend.
posted by corb at 6:52 PM on May 26, 2021 [1 favorite]


I agree that your priority should be solving the moving issue.

However, since you asked...in your update here are your clues:

It was not put into a contract or paperwork because I had to confirm that my friend would be there.

Any time a company tells you they can't do business with you because of X, that's a red flag that you need to give your full attention to.

A company that genuinely has the staff/resources/expertise and wants your business will book you and have you sign a contract.

It was after that call that I found out he doesnt work Sundays then by that time they had closed so I never got back a hold of his boss because my work week went crazy

So at the point that they are closed you know a) the company told you they can't do a contract because your friend has to be there and b) he said he would not be there. At this point it was time to panic/realize that you have no movers booked.

I get that your work week went crazy, but at this point you have zero commitment.

I tried to call but the number wasnt answering, my friend didnt respond so before i knew it two weeks had passed and i had no way of knowing until then that i was screwed.

1. If you are trying to book movers and no one will pick up the phone, then they don't want your business. Legitimate moving companies answer their phones! It's what they do.

2. I know it's hard to be new at things. From the perspective of having gone through some moves though, you had EVERY way of knowing you had no movers booked...a boss that said he wouldn't write a contract, a friend that said he couldn't do it, no one answering the phone.

The good news is, you will probably never let this repeat again. You'll sign a contract, give a deposit, and work with a company that picks up the phone.

I'd give the friend a pass as a friend but not look to the friend to do any favours.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:53 PM on May 26, 2021 [12 favorites]


Who is at fault?

I don't think this is a great way to frame this or think of it, especially when considering similar situations in the future.

the boss put me in the calendar but said if my friend agreed to do it it was ok but they dont usually work sundays. It was not put into a contract or paperwork because I had to confirm that my friend would be there. It was after that call that I found out he doesnt work Sundays

This is the point where ideally you would have recognized that as far as both your friend and his boss are concerned they are doing you a favor, something outside the normal bounds of their work. Namely 1) working on a Sunday and 2) arranging it through your friend, who doesn't ordinarily book moving gigs or arrange the schedule.

Which means - not in "fault" terms, but in practical terms - that neither of them were taking the job particularly seriously, and probably both sort of assuming that the other person was going to be responsible for it. The boss figured your friend would make all the arrangements, your friend assumed the boss would make it a "real" job. And neither communicated this clearly to the other. And then when your friend's kid had a medical emergency, your moving job slipped through the cracks. The company doesn't work on Sunday, so there's no paperwork and the boss didn't recognize - or even remember - that there was some kind of job, and your friend wasn't in a position to make the necessary arrangements to make the job happen.

In a lot of ways it's just sort of a bad luck story - a series of minor miscommunications and unforeseen emergencies cascaded, and now you don't have a mover. So the question of "who is at fault?" is maybe a little unfocused - maybe everybody bears a little responsibility here.

BUT . . . the thing to maybe take forward from this is that when you ask people to do you a favor, especially where you're asking them to do their regular job only under irregular circumstances, then you do bear more responsibility for making sure that everyone is on the same page, and everything has been properly arranged ahead of time. Especially if it's something pretty time & circumstance critical, like moving. Because, again, it's a practical consideration that folks just won't take favors as seriously as their regular normal job duties - and they don't have the processes in place to catch mistakes.

And I think this is where you're getting the pushback on the "by that time they had closed so I never got back a hold of his boss because my work week went crazy I tried to call but the number wasnt answering, my friend didnt respond so before i knew it two weeks had passed" and the "I forgot the bosses number" part - it really sounds like you didn't put in nearly as much effort as you needed to to straighten things out during that two weeks; You didn't write the boss's number down anywhere? the company doesn't have any other way of contacting them? Office number? Website? email? Voicemail? Maybe they didn't answer when you called but how often did you call? Especially during "normal" work hours when someone would have been in the office? You seemingly just defaulted to calling your friend and, well, he had a family emergency - it's understandable that he wasn't easy to get ahold of.

And so whether you'd done all that or not, you kinda should have been freaking out about this a week ago, and making other arrangements, rather than just calling your friend a bunch more times.

So. I realize that understanding the sort of unspoken social dynamics of grasping that your friend and his company felt they were doing you a favor is not in everyone's wheelhouse, and that being able to cope with additional life stress and some practical considerations on top of a crazy work week is also not in everyone's wheelhouse. And if one or both of those are you, then I think the thing to take away from this is to recognize that and that the next time you have a "mission critical" thing to do, like moving, or filing your taxes, or planning a wedding shower, or a destination vacation, or etc etc etc, you should do things more "by the book." Don't rely on knowing somebody or knowing somebody who knows somebody - call the moving company (or the accountant, or the hotel, or whatever) like just any regular old customer, go through "official channels", get signed contracts, write things down, make spreadsheets.

And as phunniemee says, plan for the fact that this will probably cost you more in actual cash out of pocket, but will greatly reduce your stress, and the chances of something like this happening again.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:10 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


Is your goal to assign blame or get your shit moved? Stop focusing on whose fault it is, and find a solution to the move.
posted by AugustWest at 9:50 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]


I’ll avoid adding to the dogpile of people telling you it’s your fault (it is, but you need to get your stuff moved). Here are two places where I have gone to get extremely last minute moving help. They are both places which rely on you to vet whomever you hire:

https://www.uhaul.com/MovingHelp/
Can hire packers, movers, cleaners, someone to drive your truck if you rent one


https://www.thumbtack.com/
Can find people to pack and move, sometimes find full service movers.

Again, your job to vet whomever you hire and this late, you will end up paying a premium.
posted by honeybee413 at 5:02 AM on May 27, 2021


Ok so I find out that its Sunday and was told by my friend that he doesnt work on sunday so they would send two more guys. However I didnt know that NONE of them work Sundays I just thought he meant him. Well I kept trying to call him back and got nothing for two weeks... I feel it is his fault since he promised he would be there. What do you think i did wrong?

the boss put me in the calendar but said if my friend agreed to do it it was ok but they dont usually work sundays. It was not put into a contract or paperwork because I had to confirm that my friend would be there. It was after that call that I found out he doesnt work Sundays


I think you wanted him to be responsible for this so you ignored the signs that it wasn't going to work. He told you he wouldn't be there and you're still saying he promised he would, for example.

And you say you didn't know that none of them work Sundays, but your conversation about your friend not working on Sunday came after the boss told you it would only work if your friend did it. Then your friend said no and had you call his boss back. It seems like the ball was pretty squarely in your court. The company had said they'd do it on one condition (that your friend worked) and that answer came back "no," he wasn't going to work on Sunday. So I think there might have been some wishful thinking or misunderstanding on your end.

The other thing that I don't think has gotten enough attention is that his kid is in the hospital. Maybe up until that point, it made sense to be a little bit like "wtf friend, can't you answer your phone to clear up this misunderstanding?" but kid-in-hospital is where that ends, if not before. They don't put kids in the hospital for the heck of it. He's in a really stressful and upsetting situation and you want to be his priority? Look at it this way. Who can move you? Literally any two strong people with a truck. Who can be a father to his sick or injured kid? Literally only him. It seems like you're expecting him to figure this out for you because he said some encouraging things before realizing the whole Sunday situation. But there are dozens if not hundreds of companies in your town that do this.

One possible way to find someone at this late date would be to post or read the posts on Craigslist -- I've gotten last minute help that way. Good luck! Moving is not fun.
posted by slidell at 7:06 AM on May 27, 2021 [11 favorites]


This is your fault, and if you take that on board, you'll be much happier in the future. I know this because I've also had to come to this realization. Here's why: you need to move, which is 100% your problem. It's fine to enlist other people to make that happen, and they should generally keep their promises, but ultimately nobody else is going to be able to summon up the urgency around this that you feel. It's really, really tempting to try to make this someone else's problem, to say, well, they said they'd do x, so now I don't need to worry about it that much. But that just doesn't work; no matter how good of a friend someone is, they're just never going to be able to prioritize something like this the way you can. So that means that you've got to stay on top of the situation. You needed to be figuring out how to contact the moving company. If work got crazy, that sucks, but this is still your problem to solve, and nobody else is going to do it for you. If you lost the number that's unfortunate, but that's a new wrinkle of your problem that you need to solve.

On a side note, I know that for a while you were calling your friend when you didn't know his kid was in the hospital, and that's fine. But once you found out, there's no acceptable response other than "what can I do to help?" If my child was in the hospital and a friend was hassling me about their move I would be incandescent with rage.
posted by Ragged Richard at 8:56 AM on May 27, 2021 [7 favorites]


I think everyone is partly to blame (the moving company, your friend, and you). If it's a small move, depending where you are, you may be able to rent a U-Haul or even a truck from Home Depot and pick up day laborers to help. Where I am, there are dozens of people available each day looking for work like this (waiting outside Home Depot other pickup points). Taskrabbit is more expensive, but there are also probably people available on there at the last minute.
posted by pinochiette at 10:44 AM on May 27, 2021


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