Terms for a local in other languages
March 31, 2006 6:35 AM Subscribe
How do you ask for a local in other languages?
In English, there's the idea of a local: someone native to a city who knows the ins and outs of the place. Do other languages have this concept? I've tried looking up "local" in various dictionaries, but I tend to get the adjective, as in "nearby", rather than a noun describing a person.
In English, there's the idea of a local: someone native to a city who knows the ins and outs of the place. Do other languages have this concept? I've tried looking up "local" in various dictionaries, but I tend to get the adjective, as in "nearby", rather than a noun describing a person.
I'd say your interpretation of "local" is slang. In fact, none of the several English dictionaries I looked at even list that meaning.
Try something less idiomatic, like native, or citizen, or resident. Or maybe something more descriptive of what you want them to do for you, like guide. (If that's what you want.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:56 AM on March 31, 2006
Try something less idiomatic, like native, or citizen, or resident. Or maybe something more descriptive of what you want them to do for you, like guide. (If that's what you want.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:56 AM on March 31, 2006
In German, the closest I can think of is "Anwohner" which means "person who lives here", but it is a very formal term and is mostly used on street signs.
Otherwise, we just say "someone from [city]".
posted by bloo at 6:56 AM on March 31, 2006
Otherwise, we just say "someone from [city]".
posted by bloo at 6:56 AM on March 31, 2006
To add some detail to qvantamon's response, with the great Seattleite analogy: This can be equally applied to places that you will have heard of (e.g. carioca for Rio de Janeiro, paulista for São Paulo) and to small towns of a few hundred people, for which English doesn't often have the same sort of word (I am fortunate to know and work with the Canuanense, from Canuanã, TO, BR, for example).
posted by whatzit at 6:57 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by whatzit at 6:57 AM on March 31, 2006
in spanish (at least in chile) you can name people after towns, much like "londoner" in english, except that it's more general ("new yorker" works, too, but "yorker" and "knaresborougher" certainly don't, for example). at least, that is what i was told a week or two ago (i'm not 100% convinced since the two examples i recall don't seem to fit an exact rule, but it could well be slightly irregular)
posted by andrew cooke at 7:12 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by andrew cooke at 7:12 AM on March 31, 2006
I think you might have to be someone who knows the ins and outs of the place, to know the word for someone who knows the ins and outs of the place.
Like - I know what Barneys and Townies are, in the Boston area. But your average woodchuck probably doesn't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2006
Like - I know what Barneys and Townies are, in the Boston area. But your average woodchuck probably doesn't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2006
Kirth, his use of "local" is just short for "local person" or "local people". Answers.com has it as "Informal. A person from a particular locality", but it works just as well with definition 1.A: Of, relating to, or characteristic of a particular place. The person is of that place.
I'm surprised other languages don't have an equivalent. Can't you just take how they say "the local shops" or "local pool" and make it "local people", or would that only refer to people who happened to be nearby, and therefore be odd?
posted by bonaldi at 7:20 AM on March 31, 2006
I'm surprised other languages don't have an equivalent. Can't you just take how they say "the local shops" or "local pool" and make it "local people", or would that only refer to people who happened to be nearby, and therefore be odd?
posted by bonaldi at 7:20 AM on March 31, 2006
Like others have mentioned, I've just been permuting the city names in France. Bordeaux becomes bordelais, Paris to parisien, Marseille to, IIRC, marseillais, etc.
posted by sixacross at 7:24 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by sixacross at 7:24 AM on March 31, 2006
bonaldi, by using my name, you sort of sound like you're correcting me. I know what he meant by it, so defining it does not help either him or me. Further, your cited Website just supports my contention that it's slang, and that foreign-language dictionaries aren't going to have equivalents for that usage.
He's looking up an individual word in dictionaries, and not finding an equivalent. If you're saying he'd be better off looking in phrasebooks, for phrases that mean what he wants, you're probably right.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2006
He's looking up an individual word in dictionaries, and not finding an equivalent. If you're saying he'd be better off looking in phrasebooks, for phrases that mean what he wants, you're probably right.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2006
I think in German you could translate it as "Einheimischer".
posted by snownoid at 7:38 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by snownoid at 7:38 AM on March 31, 2006
bonaldi: Of course local as adjective exists. for local shops you use "comercio local". For local people, "povo local", ou "população local" (which would mean, roughly, the population of the city). It is only local used as noun in this sense that is absent (like in "he is a local"). Using local besides the singular person as in "pessoa local" just sounds odd, and has not the same meaning as "local".
posted by qvantamon at 7:40 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 7:40 AM on March 31, 2006
oh, and if you NEED a generic word, instead of one tied to a place, the nearest meaning is "habitante" (inhabitant). Of course, this means more of someone who "just lives there" than identifies with the place somehow.
posted by qvantamon at 7:44 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by qvantamon at 7:44 AM on March 31, 2006
Response by poster: Yeah, it might be that I'm just looking for something that doesn't exist, and that other countries describe the concept via modifications of place names, rather than a generic term.
posted by Bezbozhnik at 7:52 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by Bezbozhnik at 7:52 AM on March 31, 2006
Kirth, I suppose I took objection to your "several dictionaries" which appears to belittle the poster by implying his use of the term was barely proper English, when it popped up in the first dictionary I looked in. (It was there as "informal", too, not just slang, which implies short-lived or limited-application language)
I agree that a phrase would be a better way of getting it across, but it seems like such a universal concept that I'm surprised other languages don't have single words for it.
posted by bonaldi at 7:52 AM on March 31, 2006
I agree that a phrase would be a better way of getting it across, but it seems like such a universal concept that I'm surprised other languages don't have single words for it.
posted by bonaldi at 7:52 AM on March 31, 2006
Just how would my taking the time to look at several dictionaries belittle Bezbozhink? I was trying to gauge how near the mainsteam of usage that meaning of local is. I did offer suggestions that might yield the results he wanted, and Bezbozhink himself doesn't seem to be bothered, so why are you?.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:34 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:34 AM on March 31, 2006
andrew cooke said: in spanish (at least in chile) you can name people after towns, much like "londoner" in english, except that it's more general ("new yorker" works, too, but "yorker" and "knaresborougher" certainly don't, for example). at least, that is what i was told a week or two ago (i'm not 100% convinced since the two examples I recall don't seem to fit an exact rule, but it could well be slightly irregular)
Yeah, this is the case. For example a person from Madrid is a madrileño. Some cities may be harder to be as succinct, so you could just say "ciudadano de" and the city name. Or the word qvantamon mentioned also works in spanish, "nativo" or even "vecino".
posted by JJ86 at 9:01 AM on March 31, 2006
Yeah, this is the case. For example a person from Madrid is a madrileño. Some cities may be harder to be as succinct, so you could just say "ciudadano de" and the city name. Or the word qvantamon mentioned also works in spanish, "nativo" or even "vecino".
posted by JJ86 at 9:01 AM on March 31, 2006
There is a word for this in Italian that I have often seen in Victorian and early 20th century novels. I would translate it as "guide" or "local guide." Unfortunately I can't remember the word. But this was a definite class of people whose profession it was to show tourists around when they were visiting places like Rome and Venice.
posted by alms at 9:22 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by alms at 9:22 AM on March 31, 2006
Just how would my taking the time to look at several dictionaries belittle Bezbozhink? I was trying to gauge how near the mainsteam of usage that meaning of local is. I did offer suggestions that might yield the results he wanted, and Bezbozhink himself doesn't seem to be bothered, so why are you?.
Because for "checking several dictionaries" I actually read "pulled out of my ass", since the usage is in every dictionary I've so far checked, including Oxford, Penguin and Collins, plus three web ones and the Mac's Oxford American online.
I do now think you were trying to help and not shitting on the question, though, so apologies.
posted by bonaldi at 10:05 AM on March 31, 2006
Because for "checking several dictionaries" I actually read "pulled out of my ass", since the usage is in every dictionary I've so far checked, including Oxford, Penguin and Collins, plus three web ones and the Mac's Oxford American online.
I do now think you were trying to help and not shitting on the question, though, so apologies.
posted by bonaldi at 10:05 AM on March 31, 2006
In Norway a lot of kids and youth actually use the english word "locals", in lack of a better Norwegian word.
posted by cheerleaders_to_your_funeral at 10:30 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by cheerleaders_to_your_funeral at 10:30 AM on March 31, 2006
in spanish (at least in chile) you can name people after towns, much like "londoner" in english, except that it's more general
I'm not sure what you mean by "more general," but if you mean more regular (i.e., one ending fits all), you're way off base. Spanish has an astounding variety of gentilicios (as they're called), and the same town name (e.g., Córdoba) can generate completely different ones in different countries/provinces (cordobano, cordobés, etc.). I have an entire book consisting solely of such equivalents.
posted by languagehat at 11:09 AM on March 31, 2006
I'm not sure what you mean by "more general," but if you mean more regular (i.e., one ending fits all), you're way off base. Spanish has an astounding variety of gentilicios (as they're called), and the same town name (e.g., Córdoba) can generate completely different ones in different countries/provinces (cordobano, cordobés, etc.). I have an entire book consisting solely of such equivalents.
posted by languagehat at 11:09 AM on March 31, 2006
bonaldi, I didn't pull anything out of my ass. First, I looked in my desk dictionary (Webster's New World 2nd) - not there. Then I looked here - not there, either. Then I looked here - not there, either. The fact that you didn't look in the same places I did doesn't give you a right to question my motives. I accept your apology, but please be a little slower to judge.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:09 AM on March 31, 2006
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:09 AM on March 31, 2006
Ukrainian місцевий (from місце, place) works the way 'local' does in English, including reference to people. I'm not as experienced with Russian, but I'd give 98% odds that the Russian word местный has the same properties. (By way of romanization, that's mis.tsé.vy, mís.tse, and myést.ny, respectively.) Most cities and towns have their own terms for a person who dwells there, too, but it's a perfectly viable strategy to ask strangers if they're local, and then cut right to asking where the opera theatre is.
Then again, with a nick like bezbozhnik, maybe you know all this.
posted by eritain at 1:14 PM on March 31, 2006
Then again, with a nick like bezbozhnik, maybe you know all this.
posted by eritain at 1:14 PM on March 31, 2006
Kirth, those are American English dictionaries. Isn't this a UK thing? I speak UK English and it makes sense to me.
Try something less idiomatic, like native, or citizen, or resident.
Native means they were born there, and citizen or resident are purely official distinctions. One might have become a citizen or resident only yesterday, and someone might ask you to recommend a restaurant or pub, and you'd say "I just moved here yesterday sorry, you'd better ask a local".
I think the way this thread is tending, the rather unsatisfactory answer is that most languages don't have a generic term. In Boston, they'd call it a Bostoner and in Madrid they'd call it a Madrileno or whatever. So they have the concept, but there's a different word for each locality.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 4:00 PM on March 31, 2006
Try something less idiomatic, like native, or citizen, or resident.
Native means they were born there, and citizen or resident are purely official distinctions. One might have become a citizen or resident only yesterday, and someone might ask you to recommend a restaurant or pub, and you'd say "I just moved here yesterday sorry, you'd better ask a local".
I think the way this thread is tending, the rather unsatisfactory answer is that most languages don't have a generic term. In Boston, they'd call it a Bostoner and in Madrid they'd call it a Madrileno or whatever. So they have the concept, but there's a different word for each locality.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 4:00 PM on March 31, 2006
In French, une personne du pays/ du coin/ du cru. You can find this information by heading to the Collins Robert and looking up "local".
posted by Wolof at 8:21 PM on March 31, 2006
posted by Wolof at 8:21 PM on March 31, 2006
In Boston, they'd call it a Bostoner
No more than they would say "beantown." It's "Bostonian," but even that is formal. "Resident" is an official designation? That's interesting.
The point I keep trying to make is that Bezbozhnik was loking for a colloquial expression in sources that don't always include such expressions.
It is also a colloquial expression in the U.S. You'll see it in novels, but not in newspapers.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:43 AM on April 2, 2006
No more than they would say "beantown." It's "Bostonian," but even that is formal. "Resident" is an official designation? That's interesting.
The point I keep trying to make is that Bezbozhnik was loking for a colloquial expression in sources that don't always include such expressions.
It is also a colloquial expression in the U.S. You'll see it in novels, but not in newspapers.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:43 AM on April 2, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by qvantamon at 6:40 AM on March 31, 2006