At a crossroads in my life and trying to figure out grad school, career
April 9, 2021 7:03 PM Subscribe
I work in the biotech industry, specifically pharmaceutical process development, with a B.S. I'm looking to take a step up in my career through grad school, but it's been several years since I've been to school and I have no idea how to approach preparing for applications, requirements, finances, etc. Looking either for direct advice, or if someone could point me to a career/college counselor to hold my hand through this.
I'm in the US, but for entirely personal/private reasons I've been wanting to go to college in Canada, probably B.C., though it could be somewhere else. Doesn't have to be a university (though it could be), but could also be a trade school or community college that would give me only what I need to help my career. I have mostly done process development in biotech as a RA I/II, and tend to hit a wall when it comes to more advanced analytics and a deeper understanding of cell biology. Also learning programming languages like VBA (for excel macros, the secret sinew of biotech), which I keep telling myself I can do by myself but then cannot find the motivation on weekends. so I'm hoping being enrolled in a school would push me into it. I am NOT looking to do a PhD but rather a M.S. or something along those lines. Reason is I'm not looking to climb any corporate ladders but just find some comfortable pocket where I won't be the Out-Of-Place 50 Year Old amongst a group of 20 year old RAs (I'm 33 right now). My coworkers all recommend Chemical Engineering but I'm open to suggestions otherwise.
Then for stuff like grad school requirements, admission procedures, etc... I get really overwhelmed when I look at a college website, and although they technically have application info, it doesn't give me any insight into whether it will be worth my time/money. So I guess that is why I am looking for help, even if it were someone pointing me to another forum focused on Canadian colleges, or biotech, or a professional counselor, or whatever.
I'm in the US, but for entirely personal/private reasons I've been wanting to go to college in Canada, probably B.C., though it could be somewhere else. Doesn't have to be a university (though it could be), but could also be a trade school or community college that would give me only what I need to help my career. I have mostly done process development in biotech as a RA I/II, and tend to hit a wall when it comes to more advanced analytics and a deeper understanding of cell biology. Also learning programming languages like VBA (for excel macros, the secret sinew of biotech), which I keep telling myself I can do by myself but then cannot find the motivation on weekends. so I'm hoping being enrolled in a school would push me into it. I am NOT looking to do a PhD but rather a M.S. or something along those lines. Reason is I'm not looking to climb any corporate ladders but just find some comfortable pocket where I won't be the Out-Of-Place 50 Year Old amongst a group of 20 year old RAs (I'm 33 right now). My coworkers all recommend Chemical Engineering but I'm open to suggestions otherwise.
Then for stuff like grad school requirements, admission procedures, etc... I get really overwhelmed when I look at a college website, and although they technically have application info, it doesn't give me any insight into whether it will be worth my time/money. So I guess that is why I am looking for help, even if it were someone pointing me to another forum focused on Canadian colleges, or biotech, or a professional counselor, or whatever.
Does the careers office of your undergraduate school offer services to relatively recent grads? Or is there an alumni network website where you can search for alums by field?
posted by 8603 at 7:33 AM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by 8603 at 7:33 AM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You mention cell biology. Are you doing small molecule, biologics, or both? And by advanced analytics I'm assuming you mean statistical process controls and not experimental assays, is that right?
In general educational schools don't do a great job giving you things you need in process work. An MS in Chemical Engineering is probably the only one that would come close to this, and even then half your coursework would probably be never used. But that's why it's being recommended.
OTOH if your main goal is to not feel left behind when someone is going on about plasmids or CHO cells, or Design of Experiment approaches, or you want to move beyond VBA in programming, a non-degree course might be useful. I had good luck taking extension courses; I learned enough about some of my blind spots to ask more intelligent question. I don't know if there's a local university that does that for you, but the I did many through UCSC Extension and at least during the pandemic it seems all online. (My experience with them is a decade old, though, so YMMV)
Doing a few classes doesn't rule out a full degree program later and might demystify some of the options. Also many employers will cover education up to a certain amount, and might completely cover the cost of a few courses.
posted by mark k at 7:40 AM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
In general educational schools don't do a great job giving you things you need in process work. An MS in Chemical Engineering is probably the only one that would come close to this, and even then half your coursework would probably be never used. But that's why it's being recommended.
OTOH if your main goal is to not feel left behind when someone is going on about plasmids or CHO cells, or Design of Experiment approaches, or you want to move beyond VBA in programming, a non-degree course might be useful. I had good luck taking extension courses; I learned enough about some of my blind spots to ask more intelligent question. I don't know if there's a local university that does that for you, but the I did many through UCSC Extension and at least during the pandemic it seems all online. (My experience with them is a decade old, though, so YMMV)
Doing a few classes doesn't rule out a full degree program later and might demystify some of the options. Also many employers will cover education up to a certain amount, and might completely cover the cost of a few courses.
posted by mark k at 7:40 AM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
Best answer: For employability, I would recommend giving bioinformatics consideration (you don't have to specialize in it, just lots of hands on experience using it), maybe working with large NGS data sets. You'll want to be proficient in R and possibly try to pick up some python or the like.
Traditionally, the savvy route to get into grad school is to contact a PI - and if they have the space and funding - having such a sponsor removes most barriers to getting into the program. In Canada, don't worry about standardized tests.
Look up faculty listings in programs that you're interested in, identify ones with research interests you can really get into, and cold email them with your intentions (want to be a MSc candidate, interested in their particular specialty of study, and if possible propose a general research topic consistent with what the lab is doing).
There is a stipend (that the PI pays out of their research funds) for MSc students, and you'll have the opportunity to compete for your own grants (good PIs will continue to pay you ["top up"], maybe a little less, so you get your grant plus a little extra).
Now's a good time to start looking, to start in the Fall/ Autumn semester. You'll probably miss out on (receiving) external grant funding until next year though (you apply in Fall/ Winter, they're typically announced in the Spring), but MSc grants are typically for 2 years (and programs will stretch out to 3 or a bit more).
Unless you're cohabiting with an employed partner, have a lot of savings, or willing to live with roommates, (Vancouver) BC isn't a great place to move to on a MSc stipend.
posted by porpoise at 2:05 PM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Traditionally, the savvy route to get into grad school is to contact a PI - and if they have the space and funding - having such a sponsor removes most barriers to getting into the program. In Canada, don't worry about standardized tests.
Look up faculty listings in programs that you're interested in, identify ones with research interests you can really get into, and cold email them with your intentions (want to be a MSc candidate, interested in their particular specialty of study, and if possible propose a general research topic consistent with what the lab is doing).
There is a stipend (that the PI pays out of their research funds) for MSc students, and you'll have the opportunity to compete for your own grants (good PIs will continue to pay you ["top up"], maybe a little less, so you get your grant plus a little extra).
Now's a good time to start looking, to start in the Fall/ Autumn semester. You'll probably miss out on (receiving) external grant funding until next year though (you apply in Fall/ Winter, they're typically announced in the Spring), but MSc grants are typically for 2 years (and programs will stretch out to 3 or a bit more).
Unless you're cohabiting with an employed partner, have a lot of savings, or willing to live with roommates, (Vancouver) BC isn't a great place to move to on a MSc stipend.
posted by porpoise at 2:05 PM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You mention cell biology. Are you doing small molecule, biologics, or both? And by advanced analytics I'm assuming you mean statistical process controls and not experimental assays, is that right?
OTOH if your main goal is to not feel left behind when someone is going on about plasmids or CHO cells, or Design of Experiment approaches, or you want to move beyond VBA in programming, a non-degree course might be useful. I had good luck taking extension courses; I learned enough about some of my blind spots to ask more intelligent question. I don't know if there's a local university that does that for you, but the I did many through UCSC Extension and at least during the pandemic it seems all online. (My experience with them is a decade old, though, so YMMV)
Mainly biologics, like antibody-based drugs from CHO, though i've also worked with bacteria. And yes, usually SPC, though plenty of process dev labs have involved assays if it's relevant to our work. Usually what happens is although I have a basic understanding of cell metabolism, factors affecting cell health (ph, do, nutrient feeds, etc), and where this all fits in the industry, I feel like I hit a wall in having more predictive foresight into what can be considered. How can I make a more educated guess as to which of the 50+ media ingredients is having an affect on productivity? How can I know how to fine-tune the PIV loop besides randomly punching in numbers and seeing what happens? I can only gain little isolated bits of knowledge by asking on the job, but feel like there's a mountain of foundational knowledge I'm missing.
Thank you for the advice on extension courses. Didn't know it was thing, but I'll look into that as a (possibly cheaper?) option.
posted by picklenickle at 7:37 PM on April 10, 2021
OTOH if your main goal is to not feel left behind when someone is going on about plasmids or CHO cells, or Design of Experiment approaches, or you want to move beyond VBA in programming, a non-degree course might be useful. I had good luck taking extension courses; I learned enough about some of my blind spots to ask more intelligent question. I don't know if there's a local university that does that for you, but the I did many through UCSC Extension and at least during the pandemic it seems all online. (My experience with them is a decade old, though, so YMMV)
Mainly biologics, like antibody-based drugs from CHO, though i've also worked with bacteria. And yes, usually SPC, though plenty of process dev labs have involved assays if it's relevant to our work. Usually what happens is although I have a basic understanding of cell metabolism, factors affecting cell health (ph, do, nutrient feeds, etc), and where this all fits in the industry, I feel like I hit a wall in having more predictive foresight into what can be considered. How can I make a more educated guess as to which of the 50+ media ingredients is having an affect on productivity? How can I know how to fine-tune the PIV loop besides randomly punching in numbers and seeing what happens? I can only gain little isolated bits of knowledge by asking on the job, but feel like there's a mountain of foundational knowledge I'm missing.
Thank you for the advice on extension courses. Didn't know it was thing, but I'll look into that as a (possibly cheaper?) option.
posted by picklenickle at 7:37 PM on April 10, 2021
@picklenickle "I feel like I hit a wall in having more predictive foresight into what can be considered. How can I make a more educated guess as to which of the 50+ media ingredients is having an affect on productivity? How can I know how to fine-tune the PIV loop besides randomly punching in numbers and seeing what happens?"
Look into courses in Experimental Design and if you want implementation strategies look into Pilot Plant Design. You may not need a full degree; if you can take extension courses in these areas.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:00 PM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Look into courses in Experimental Design and if you want implementation strategies look into Pilot Plant Design. You may not need a full degree; if you can take extension courses in these areas.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:00 PM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
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One angle is to look for statistics on "what percentage of graduates with a bachelors/masters in X got full time work" & "what was their average salary". Some statistics are published on www.naceweb.org , "national association of colleges and employers". Maybe take the statistics with a grain of salt as both groups will have biases and interests that aren't necessarily aligned with the interests of students.
E.g. from the 2018 dataset, for graduates with a masters degree in chemical engineering, within 6 months of graduating, 50% had full time work, 1% had part time work, 31% went on further education, 14% were seeking employment and 1% were seeking further education. Of those with jobs, the mean starting salary was $72k.
One way to frame the decision of studying for a masters in chemical engineering could be a purely financial angle: masters studies costing $x / year for blah years, with some odds that you complete the program and graduate, and having a 2/3 -- 3/4 chance of landing a job within half a year of graduating worth around $72k / yr. Then you could compare against a few alternatives (different kinds of training or potential fields of study/industries/occupations) and see if it looked reasonable in comparison or relatively underwhelming.
posted by are-coral-made at 12:22 AM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]