How do I apply for a job and request to work in another office?
March 18, 2021 6:03 PM Subscribe
The job listing is for a US-based health/tech company. The job post lists two major US cities which are the company "hubs," and it sounds like they are hiring for one position which can be filled in either city. The company's mission aligns with my values, and I think I would really enjoy working there. They recently expanded their operations in the UK. How can I tactfully request if I can perform that job from their London office?
I realize it's a long shot. Without making this into a relationship post, the backstory is that I met my current bf while visiting a friend in the UK. We've been in a long distance relationship for a few years, have traveled together, spent time in each other's cities, and are looking forward to finally closing the gap and spending our lives together.
Assume that:
- We've discussed marriage and I will not require a work visa
- I'm very qualified for the job
Another point is that I applied for a job in their UK office about a year ago. They had already offered the position to someone at that point and were waiting to hear back. In any case, they requested to keep my application on file (could also just be a standard response to be fair).
Basically how can I say, "Hey, I'm really interested in this position; I think I'd be a great addition to your team. I have a lot of experience to bring, and I'd love to work with you. Would it be possible to do that from your UK office?"
Should I bring that up in my cover letter? Send a follow-up email after I submit my application? Wait until the interview?
Comments saying "You definitely should NOT do this" are also welcome. I realize that I'll move to London, and in a few years, they might have a position open that I'm interested in. I don't want to come off as overly entitled and get blacklisted.
I realize it's a long shot. Without making this into a relationship post, the backstory is that I met my current bf while visiting a friend in the UK. We've been in a long distance relationship for a few years, have traveled together, spent time in each other's cities, and are looking forward to finally closing the gap and spending our lives together.
Assume that:
- We've discussed marriage and I will not require a work visa
- I'm very qualified for the job
Another point is that I applied for a job in their UK office about a year ago. They had already offered the position to someone at that point and were waiting to hear back. In any case, they requested to keep my application on file (could also just be a standard response to be fair).
Basically how can I say, "Hey, I'm really interested in this position; I think I'd be a great addition to your team. I have a lot of experience to bring, and I'd love to work with you. Would it be possible to do that from your UK office?"
Should I bring that up in my cover letter? Send a follow-up email after I submit my application? Wait until the interview?
Comments saying "You definitely should NOT do this" are also welcome. I realize that I'll move to London, and in a few years, they might have a position open that I'm interested in. I don't want to come off as overly entitled and get blacklisted.
I’ve never done what you’re asking, but I have interviewed with the intention of asking to work remotely before. I didn’t reveal my plan until I had an offer. In the first case, one of my interviewers (who was not a manager) noticed that the address on my resume was out of town and mentioned, unprompted, that it might be an option. When I asked after getting the offer, though, it was not. Oh well, worth a shot. In the second case, the interviewer specifically told me (again unprompted) why they wanted someone in that particular office. I was local to that company, but it was just a crappy commute that I didn’t want to deal with. I didn’t get an offer, at any rate (just as well; the company went out of business ten months later).
My point is that you can feel it out during the interview process to see if it’s even worth asking about. If you get to the end of the process and they’re preparing a offer, you can give them the hard sell. But it’ll probably come up before then, either because they brought it up or because you asked something hinting at it.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:39 PM on March 18, 2021
My point is that you can feel it out during the interview process to see if it’s even worth asking about. If you get to the end of the process and they’re preparing a offer, you can give them the hard sell. But it’ll probably come up before then, either because they brought it up or because you asked something hinting at it.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:39 PM on March 18, 2021
Is working in the UK a request, or a hard requirement? If they said no, would you still take the position?
Your question mentions marriage plans and what you want to happen in the future, but the current reality sounds like you can't work in the UK without them getting a work visa (I have no idea how difficult this is, especially right now).
posted by meowzilla at 6:57 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Your question mentions marriage plans and what you want to happen in the future, but the current reality sounds like you can't work in the UK without them getting a work visa (I have no idea how difficult this is, especially right now).
posted by meowzilla at 6:57 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the comments so far!
To clarify: Working in the UK is a hard requirement in this case. If it wasn't for this job posting becoming available, I would get married, move to the UK, and find another job there (not necessarily in that order and probably simultaneously to an extent). This happens to be a dream job that aligns very well with my experience, skills, and goals. I figure that instead of letting the opportunity slip by, it's worth a shot, and I'm hoping to get some ideas on the best way to go about it.
posted by mushtale at 7:28 PM on March 18, 2021
To clarify: Working in the UK is a hard requirement in this case. If it wasn't for this job posting becoming available, I would get married, move to the UK, and find another job there (not necessarily in that order and probably simultaneously to an extent). This happens to be a dream job that aligns very well with my experience, skills, and goals. I figure that instead of letting the opportunity slip by, it's worth a shot, and I'm hoping to get some ideas on the best way to go about it.
posted by mushtale at 7:28 PM on March 18, 2021
I agree with the advice to get them interested in you first as an applicant. Once you're in the interview stage, pay attention to where the manager for this role is based; if they're in San Francisco, they may prefer to keep their reports in the same time zone, but if you're their favorite candidate they'll be more likely to consider alternate arrangements. Either way, learning more about the actual manager(s) involved will give you better context to negotiate that situation, and until then you can focus more energy on how it's the perfect job for you rather than leading with how it's not the perfect time zone.
posted by saramour at 8:10 PM on March 18, 2021
posted by saramour at 8:10 PM on March 18, 2021
You might be able to get an internal transfer to the UK office after working in the US office for a while. (That's how I moved from the UK to the US.)
posted by monotreme at 8:37 PM on March 18, 2021
posted by monotreme at 8:37 PM on March 18, 2021
It partially depends on how sought after people with your skills are. FWIW, if my company posts a junior tech position, it's pretty locked to the stated city, because we assume that they'll need mentoring and training and that's still best done in person and the location is selected because that's where the mentor is. If it's mid-grade, it's pick any of our major cities, even if it's not directly stated in the req. And senior people for the most part can be anywhere unless the job requires physical access to something or face time with management on a frequent basis.
However, the right to work aspect would probably be a deal breaker for us unless the person was highly sought after. I don't think we'd extend an offer to someone who still needed to get married in order to have the ability to work in a location. There's too much that can go wrong with that process.
posted by Candleman at 9:55 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
However, the right to work aspect would probably be a deal breaker for us unless the person was highly sought after. I don't think we'd extend an offer to someone who still needed to get married in order to have the ability to work in a location. There's too much that can go wrong with that process.
posted by Candleman at 9:55 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think it may really depend on what the role is and how you're expected to work with your team, business partners, stakeholders, etc. I've worked for several multi-national companies and time zones are a pretty big deal. If you're always going to be offline when your team is online, then unless the work you're responsible for is neither time-sensitive nor are there any dependencies between your work and your teammates', it's likely to be a no-go for the company.
I have some teammates on the east coast who support our west coast clients, and they basically work west coast hours. That's the tradeoff my firm made in order to accommodate my coworkers' preference to stay in the east. But our work is very time-sensitive, we can't afford to lose full days of progress on a regular basis while the work switches hands.
I'd add that you may want to tread carefully in terms of not leaving your ask until too late in the process. You mentioned that this is a dream job, and there's the chance that you may burn some bridges if you go through several rounds of interviews, and the company maybe foregoes other candidates in favor of making you an offer, only to hear that you're not interested unless you can work from London. As a hiring manager, I wouldn't look too fondly on that. I agree that you should not say anything before the first interview, and use that opportunity to feel things out, but say something before the company expends a lot of time and resources.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:06 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have some teammates on the east coast who support our west coast clients, and they basically work west coast hours. That's the tradeoff my firm made in order to accommodate my coworkers' preference to stay in the east. But our work is very time-sensitive, we can't afford to lose full days of progress on a regular basis while the work switches hands.
I'd add that you may want to tread carefully in terms of not leaving your ask until too late in the process. You mentioned that this is a dream job, and there's the chance that you may burn some bridges if you go through several rounds of interviews, and the company maybe foregoes other candidates in favor of making you an offer, only to hear that you're not interested unless you can work from London. As a hiring manager, I wouldn't look too fondly on that. I agree that you should not say anything before the first interview, and use that opportunity to feel things out, but say something before the company expends a lot of time and resources.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:06 PM on March 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
The vast majority of companies will say no, sometimes to the extent of simply ending the interview process
Hell, at my place of business, they’d probably try to convince you to take the role in London before you even brought it up. Cupertino is pretty much full to the brim, and office space in London is cheap in comparison. I’m WFH in SoCal, and it would be much easier to get work to move me and my family to London than it would to get an office up north.
That said, we a have a lot of workers of all kinds of citizenships working in all kinds of countries, so the legal side of having someone work in one country vs another is more a minor time cost than a money cost. This company might balk at firing up the lawyers to get the visa paperwork done.
Or, maybe they also do it a lot and the cost is negligible. I say it doesn’t hurt to ask.
posted by sideshow at 11:22 PM on March 18, 2021
Hell, at my place of business, they’d probably try to convince you to take the role in London before you even brought it up. Cupertino is pretty much full to the brim, and office space in London is cheap in comparison. I’m WFH in SoCal, and it would be much easier to get work to move me and my family to London than it would to get an office up north.
That said, we a have a lot of workers of all kinds of citizenships working in all kinds of countries, so the legal side of having someone work in one country vs another is more a minor time cost than a money cost. This company might balk at firing up the lawyers to get the visa paperwork done.
Or, maybe they also do it a lot and the cost is negligible. I say it doesn’t hurt to ask.
posted by sideshow at 11:22 PM on March 18, 2021
I would raise it very gently, as a question, and back off quickly if it was a no. Assuming you are then offered the US based position, take the job and spend a year or so showing them just how valuable you are, and then raise it again. You could try to network with UK management, and watch out for any UK based roles during that time.
If there are any visa / moving or other costs, make it very clear that you don’t expect them to cover these. A large corporation I worked with effectively repatriated all staff working abroad during a cost cutting exercise, due to ongoing additional costs associated with their working overseas. They had the choice to leave the company or move.
Best of luck!
posted by ElasticParrot at 5:42 AM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
If there are any visa / moving or other costs, make it very clear that you don’t expect them to cover these. A large corporation I worked with effectively repatriated all staff working abroad during a cost cutting exercise, due to ongoing additional costs associated with their working overseas. They had the choice to leave the company or move.
Best of luck!
posted by ElasticParrot at 5:42 AM on March 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
I work in a US healthcare company and I have a global team and am ccurrently hiring with a posting with multiple us cities listed as location. If I were open to a Europe base, I would have listed it in the posting. I think it is really different to apply to a USA role and ask about remote work in USA. I would be pretty annoyed if I took a candidate through a recruiting process and in the end they told me they wanted to work in a different country.
posted by sulaine at 6:27 AM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by sulaine at 6:27 AM on March 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
If you *currently* have the legal right to work in the UK then I think you can send in an application and bring up the UK issue during the first interview. I wouldn’t wait any longer than that. And if it’s ‘UK or nothing’ (you would not accept the job in the US office) then make that super clear, so they can take you out of the pool if UK is a non-starter. I think if you bring it up any later than that you risk them being mad at you for misrepresenting yourself. I would definitely be mad at a candidate who applied for a job that had a clear work location listed, and who hid until late in the process the fact that they would not accept a job in that location.
I think that yes you want the opportunity to display yourself a little and get them interested, but I also think there’s only maybe a 30% chance they would be able to accommodate a request to work out of the UK office, and it won’t depend so much on you and your qualities, as it will on job-related stuff. That’s why you need to tell them early.
If you don’t currently have the legal right to work in the UK then I think your quest here is hopeless. If the job is posted as a US-based one, they might be willing to accommodate a location change as long as it costs them nothing, but it’s very unlikely they’d be willing to accommodate it if doing that would cost them a bunch of time and uncertainty, as it would if you’d need to gain the legal right to work there first.
posted by Susan PG at 7:20 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think that yes you want the opportunity to display yourself a little and get them interested, but I also think there’s only maybe a 30% chance they would be able to accommodate a request to work out of the UK office, and it won’t depend so much on you and your qualities, as it will on job-related stuff. That’s why you need to tell them early.
If you don’t currently have the legal right to work in the UK then I think your quest here is hopeless. If the job is posted as a US-based one, they might be willing to accommodate a location change as long as it costs them nothing, but it’s very unlikely they’d be willing to accommodate it if doing that would cost them a bunch of time and uncertainty, as it would if you’d need to gain the legal right to work there first.
posted by Susan PG at 7:20 AM on March 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you are as qualified as you say, then maybe you could contact the hiring manager (or the previous one from a year ago) with a more informational type of request instead of a formal job application. Simply submit a good cover letter, stating your qualifications as well as when you expect to be able to work in the UK (the more specific, the better), and a reference to the job position you are perfectly suited for. Then go ahead, get married, move to the UK, and follow your dreams without waiting for a response.
Right now you can't work in either location. The faster that gets sorted, the less red flags that employers will see in your applications.
posted by meowzilla at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2021
Right now you can't work in either location. The faster that gets sorted, the less red flags that employers will see in your applications.
posted by meowzilla at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2021
Looking at the link that Megami posted, it says the Home Office processes 95% of applications within 12 weeks - if you were able to convince them to let you work in London, would they be willing to wait potentially 12 weeks for the visa to come through, and then a few more weeks while you organised to move to the UK?
I really think it will be down to the individual company whether they are happy with this - for example, my team is split across two cities. We recently recruited someone in one city, and the manager was completely unwilling to even consider having the new staff member work in the other city. I would personally raise it early, because I think you run the risk of really annoying the hiring manager if you wait until you have an offer. It's a big thing to ask for, I think you have to be prepared that they might not be open to the idea.
posted by Pink Frost at 12:05 AM on March 20, 2021
I really think it will be down to the individual company whether they are happy with this - for example, my team is split across two cities. We recently recruited someone in one city, and the manager was completely unwilling to even consider having the new staff member work in the other city. I would personally raise it early, because I think you run the risk of really annoying the hiring manager if you wait until you have an offer. It's a big thing to ask for, I think you have to be prepared that they might not be open to the idea.
posted by Pink Frost at 12:05 AM on March 20, 2021
I've hired in the past for global positions, and this is the advice I would give you:
1)
Be up front early in the interview process. I would write something like "dear recruiter, you may be the wrong person, but I'm interested in this job but in the UK. I'm getting married soon and moving to London. If there is any chance of that could you let me know where to apply?"
2)
Clarify what you expect from the company during the move abroad. And stick to it. Expat budgets can be very complicated in a large corporation. In my role now, I could hire an expat on the ground now who is content with a local contract. If I wanted to bring someone there from abroad (i.e., pay for it) it needs to be approved at group level. The farthest I could go without approval would be to apply for a work visa without an expat package. One of the more annoying experiences in my career as a hiring manager has been doing exactly this-- sponsoring someone for a work visa on a local package, and having them turn around after hiring and start making a giant fuss because they wanted an expat package. Luckily I'm a documentation kind of person, but I would have gotten in big trouble if I hadn't been. These kinds of experiences are part of why hiring managers can be very wary about what they agree to with expats.
3)
See if you can talk to the hiring manager and not the recruiter. The recruiter is likely to just say 'no' unless it is a very unusual company.
posted by frumiousb at 7:06 PM on March 20, 2021
1)
Be up front early in the interview process. I would write something like "dear recruiter, you may be the wrong person, but I'm interested in this job but in the UK. I'm getting married soon and moving to London. If there is any chance of that could you let me know where to apply?"
2)
Clarify what you expect from the company during the move abroad. And stick to it. Expat budgets can be very complicated in a large corporation. In my role now, I could hire an expat on the ground now who is content with a local contract. If I wanted to bring someone there from abroad (i.e., pay for it) it needs to be approved at group level. The farthest I could go without approval would be to apply for a work visa without an expat package. One of the more annoying experiences in my career as a hiring manager has been doing exactly this-- sponsoring someone for a work visa on a local package, and having them turn around after hiring and start making a giant fuss because they wanted an expat package. Luckily I'm a documentation kind of person, but I would have gotten in big trouble if I hadn't been. These kinds of experiences are part of why hiring managers can be very wary about what they agree to with expats.
3)
See if you can talk to the hiring manager and not the recruiter. The recruiter is likely to just say 'no' unless it is a very unusual company.
posted by frumiousb at 7:06 PM on March 20, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would not mention it until the interview and ideally late in the interview process. You need to get them committed to you to some extent before you ask for what's a big concession on their part.
posted by GuyZero at 6:33 PM on March 18, 2021 [1 favorite]