My friend skipped the vaccine line
March 14, 2021 10:26 PM   Subscribe

And does/says other things I don't agree with. How do you stay friends when you seem to differ on what feel like important questions of morality? Do you?

My friend - an activity partner who I've known for maybe two years - confided to me today that she skipped the vaccine line. Like, literally claimed she was eligible when she wasn't and apparently no one checked and gave it to her. I don't know why she told me, I really wish she hadn't. I think she expected me to think it was okay somehow?

I have felt I guess a little ambivalent about this friend for some time. I like hanging out with her a lot of the time, but she has a tendency to say things here and there or seems to hold views that I find distasteful or un-empathetic that bubble up (eg - seemed offended that people in prison might get the COVID vaccine first, makes judgmental comments about homeless people, says maybe the person who was making headlines for being sexually abused is just bringing it up/sharing her story for "the money," and I've had how many conversations I can't count about the public health response to COVID that she thinks is an over-reaction, etc.). She also bends the truth about things sometimes. It makes it hard to see her as someone I would want to be closer friends with or would really trust in the way I trust some other people in my life.

She's one of the few people who I've seen semi-consistently the past year during COVID, mostly doing our shared activity together or getting a drink or doing a short hike once or twice a month. I was kind of trying to keep my distance earlier this year because of her comments that were kind of getting to me, but the slow fade doesn't really work because she always comes back and wants to do stuff with me and can be kind of persistent. It's a constant push-pull in this relationship of her wanting to hang out more often than I want and me making up excuses or saying I'm busy or what have you. But like I said she's not like constantly saying offensive things all the time, and if she, I don't know, seemed to have some more morals, I would probably like her just fine. The last couple times I saw her it was okay, and we'd been doing the shared activity more recently.

When she told me about the vaccine skipping thing today I didn't know how to react. She literally said something along the lines of, "don't make me feel guilty," but I didn't really want to tell her I thought it was okay. If I had to venture a guess at why she did it, I'd say it was probably out of frustration of living with COVID (not that we all aren't frustrated) and being tired of her friends not wanting to hang out or not wanting to be in contained airspace together, etc. etc. She's never seemed super concerned about getting the virus herself as far as I can tell (and to my knowledge does not have any risk factors for a serious case/is not in regular contact with someone who is) and in fact thinks she might have had it when she was traveling in Asia before it even really reached the US.

When she first told me, she basically seemed to think or put forth that it was no big deal, that anyone who could think of doing what she did would do it, and that it was the vaccine distributor's fault for not checking her eligibility. I disagreed with her on that and told her so. I tried to just avoid talking further about it ("I don't really want to talk about this further"), but I think my response made it dawn on her that maybe people would perceive skipping the vaccine line as not being okay and she was asking for reassurance/seemed to start feeling guilty so I eventually said I didn't agree with her actions, but it was okay, not to worry about it and at least she was one less person who could transmit the virus. I think I'm kind of conflict-avoidant though I don't know what good a lot of conflict on this subject would do.

Btw, I don't know if it's relevant, but I have been vaccinated myself and sooner than I should be eligible, but really by a twist that an institution I'm a part of was vaccinating all of its members, sanctioned by the state health authority. I've honestly felt a little iff-y about that, but it was at least through a legitimate pathway, and I would never go out there and try to claim eligibility before someone told me I could get it.

I'm hoping we just won't have to talk about this anymore, but I'm just tired of having interactions with this friend where she says something or does something that I'm not 100% okay with. I wish she would stop, I don't know, doing or saying things I disagree with? If she says something where I'm not okay with it I usually try to explain my point of view and act non-judgmental, and sometimes she seems to kind of absorb/consider what I say, but she's also I think a kind of strong-minded person. I feel like she has opinions on some things without considering them very much, or comes from a background where maybe she's inherited/absorbed some of the views I don't like, not that that necessarily means she's going to change anytime soon and become a different person. I think we function pretty differently in terms of our inner processes and personalities.

I guess I don't know when it comes down to it how to interact with her at this point, not just the COVID thing but the rest. It feels like either I attempt to do a slow fade, or I find some new way to frame in my mind her views and actions, or I ... talk to her about it? I don't know how that conversation would go though - "you sometimes make statements that I'm not okay with and I wish you would just keep your viewpoints to yourself?" Or, maybe be a little more insistent in the moment if she says something I don't agree with that I don't think it's okay? Advice?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (25 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Sounds like if you talk to this person about anything other than cordial hellos and goodbyes you find yourself uncomfortable.

Don't talk to her, ideally not at all. But if you must, hi, goodbye, the weather is nice and excuses why you can't talk should be the only communication you have .
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:48 PM on March 14, 2021 [7 favorites]


DTMF. Seems like you don't actually like her but she is a reliable activity partner. If you are not comfortable with someone's morals don't have them as a friend, you will never trust them enough to get close.

The vaccine stuff just seems like the icing on this particular distafeful cake. Having it out with her probably won't go well, just fade
posted by benzenedream at 12:07 AM on March 15, 2021 [12 favorites]


If you two have such fundamentally different values and morals, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect her to simply stop doing or saying things you disagree with. She doesn’t seem to think the things she says and does are all that disagreeable. If she did, she wouldn’t say or do them. You’d be asking her to interpret your personal set of morals based on your lived experiences and “inner processes” as you described. That is a pretty tall order for someone like her who doesn’t seem to have much of an exterior filter, let alone her own inner process that would allow for it. Hanging out 1-2 times a month isn’t much time to be of any influence in her life.

I would opt to do the slow fade if I were you. You don’t seem like close enough friends for this to warrant a heart-to-heart in which you basically tell her that you’re out because she’s a bad person, and then she’ll try to defend herself and you’ll feel terrible and awkward and so will she. She’s likely pushy about hanging out because she keeps alienating other friends, and you’re one of the few who haven’t gone away yet. That is something she’ll need to figure out for herself.

I’ve been in your shoes before and I know it’s not fun. In my case I tried to have a conversation with my ex-friend and she just completely shut down and wouldn’t hear it. I figured I gave her a fair shot at hearing how she’d hurt me and how concerned I was about the ways she’d changed. There was nothing more I could do except slow fade her after that.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:14 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]


There is a second AskMe about this same situation. A few people (including me) have been sharing stories of people who have been trying to get the vaccine and how much trouble we've been having finding an appointment.

Go read that, and if you still have second thoughts about "should I forgive my friend" still, you are a kinder person than the world deserves. I think a slow fade would be good; a quick fade would be better.

(Incidentally, there is no shame in your company setting up vaccines for its staff - firstly because that wasn't your doing, that was just random luck, and secondly, there's a reason why your institution was given that boon, and that is probably important.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:16 AM on March 15, 2021 [15 favorites]


Yeah, this is unlike that other thread, in which the poster was having this problem with someone they generally respected and who usually had good judgement. This is just a person you don't like very much. (Right now I don't like her very much either.)

It sounds like she's resistant to the slow fade--people who do all the planning sometimes are. Just keep it up. Maybe "the next couple of months are going to be super busy; maybe we can get in touch at the beginning of the summer."

Don't have a big talk, though; there's nothing to be gained by telling her that you don't think she's a very good person.
posted by gideonfrog at 5:10 AM on March 15, 2021 [7 favorites]


Her opinions are not your own. Skipping vaccine line may be immoral, but it isn’t why it’s hard to get a vaccine for folks (if it was that would be well known). My parents had a rough time getting theirs, but it isn’t your friend’s fault.

I would say what to do depends on your options. Hiking is fun with a pal and is great for you. Maybe she is a hiking friend and not a drinking friend. It’s a low stakes and you can dump her later if you need to. Perhaps, right now having a friend who gets you out on hikes, but is kinda a pain, is a net good?

She doesn’t sound likes she is mean to you. Maybe she is a cynical low empathy kinda person.
posted by creiszhanson at 5:42 AM on March 15, 2021 [5 favorites]


Your friend lied to get treatment she was not entitled to during a public health emergency. What more do you need to know about her character?

As Maya Angelous said, "When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time."
posted by FencingGal at 6:17 AM on March 15, 2021 [10 favorites]


I could not and would not be friends with someone who

seemed offended that people in prison might get the COVID vaccine first, makes judgmental comments about homeless people, says maybe the person who was making headlines for being sexually abused is just bringing it up/sharing her story for "the money,"

even before the pandemic. Obviously they think every incarcerated person in America is guilty and should have no access to basic health care, they are comfortable shaming people without homes, and they like to give rapists the benefit of the doubt.

Lying to get a vaccine is wrong on a lot of levels, but it isn't the only reason I would not spend time with this person.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2021 [31 favorites]


She told you because she was bragging; she's proud of her ability to score stuff, to lie. You feel chagrined about getting the vax sooner than you feel you deserve; these 2 viewpoints are very different. I'd be wary of this person, users can turn on a dime. Be very cordial and chummy and use her as a person you do some stuff with, if you want. Do not confide anything. She's a jerk, maybe raised with few values, probably not truly evil. You don't need to judge her, but you don't need to approve of her.

In general, see if you can find ways to develop your own boundaries. Waiting until things stack up and having a heartfelt talk is miserable and unlikely to have a good result. Practice on her. Be cheery and lowkey and express disapproval. Whoa, that sounds unethical, it makes me uneasy and then move on. Yikes, really raise an eyebrow that feels borderline to me and then talk about weather, sports, why the bartender wears weird shirts with sequins. Distraction by moving a conversation to a new neutral topic is tool you should cultivate; there are social scenarios where I always have a mental list of such topics.

I'd plan to ease away without a rift as life picks up after Pandemic lightens.
posted by theora55 at 6:32 AM on March 15, 2021 [11 favorites]


Here's the thing: the rules of vaccination are a combination of reasonable and arbitrary, as you have found out. By your own admission, you "jumped the line", even if it was officially sanctioned by your institution. If you really believed that you were taking the vaccination away from someone else who "deserved" it more, you should have refused vaccination so someone else could get it. When the rules seem arbitrary (e.g. all teachers being vaccinated even if they're teaching remotely, but grocery store employees not being vaccinated at all), I think it's very hard to know what is morally right and morally wrong. It does seem like, on this, you're holding your friend to a standard you're not holding yourself to.

I think you should probably dump your friend based on the other stuff you've said about her, but I don't see this as some huge moral failing that demands immediate action.
posted by Betelgeuse at 6:43 AM on March 15, 2021 [10 favorites]


Plenty of people have activity friends where the friendship is based almost entirely on the shared activity. Some of these friendships have rules like "no talking politics." Before you end the friendship, you could try doing this, if you want. Personally, hiking is an activity I can only do with people I really like and trust, so I'd end this friendship.

On another note:
and at least she was one less person who could transmit the virus.

We don't know this. That's why the CDC only endorses vaccinated people being unmasked around other vaccinated people.
posted by coffeecat at 6:47 AM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]


While I think it's good to know people who think differently from ourselves, I don't think you are friends with this person and that's okay. There is a vast distance between ride-or-die friends and acquaintances with bad opinions, and people can occupy any one of the infinite points along that line. It's also good to be the person who introduces different perspectives. Imagine if noone else in this person's life ever says "hey actually I think it's a really good idea to vaccinate people in prison, living in a congregate setting shouldn't be a death sentence for anyone"? It's healthy for her to hear disagreement, and hopefully you are introducing some doubt into her world view. There's no reason to let this person assume you approve of them, since you don't. If she can still handle doing the activity with someone who regularly disagrees with her, that's a good sign maybe for her future growth.

But it's equally totally fine for you to have reached a limit with her and to decide you are not really enjoying this acquaintance. I'm sure there are other people you can do this activity with, and you might be ready to start seeking them out. Good friends should support and affirm each other, if not in every little thing, then at least in the big stuff. You deserve to have friend interactions that are not ultimately draining and stressful, and you shouldn't have to always feel like you are arguing, or that you have to watch what you say to avoid crossing ideological lines. If things are getting to that point, it might be time to be unavailable when this person reaches out.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 6:55 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]


For those who are waiting, or trying to obtain a vaccine it surely must be a distressful and hard situation.
But, I don't think accessing vaccine is a fair litmus test for someone's character.

This person is not aligned with your values, even if there was no such thing as Covid.

I think you should continue to stop being so avoidant and start raising an eyebrow, making a comment, and otherwise presenting your point of view. This is assuming you still would like to hang out with this person. They might actually respect and value your thoughts, so your perspective could possibly open their mind a little bit--maybe not, but you are allowed to offer a counter point to their statements. The "let's not talk about this topic" strategy is another option.
posted by rhonzo at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2021


Team DTMFA. I don’t know why anyone would say people like your friend aren’t *part of* the reason more urgently needed dosages have not been delivered. A dose is a dose. One that goes in one arm isn’t going another.

There are tons of elderly and sick people who have not been able to get a shot. I spent weeks trying for my elderly mom in New York. We finally got it done yesterday, two months after she became eligible at 83 years old with underlying comorbidity (and a retired ICU nurse, dammit). Plenty of other octogenarians don’t have kids or friends to do that for them.

It’s a zero sum deal: unless you’re lucky and get a dose that would be expiring otherwise, you took a place in line and should be honest about your eligibility. Period.

By the way, someday this person will see you as the obstacle to something they want. Someone who lies to get a vaccine in a pandemic can’t be trusted not to betray you as a friend.

When people show and tell you who they are etc.
posted by spitbull at 8:06 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]


I can think of a few options for you:

1. Slow fade harder. You said you tried to slow fade, but she gets persistent. So be more vague. She: “Want to get together next week?” “No, I can’t.” “How about the week after?” “Can’t do it then either.” “What about the week after that?” “How about I get back to you and let you know? I’m not sure how I’ll be feeling by then.” And just never get back to her. If she then asks again, “Hey you never got back to me. Why?” You can say something like, “I just haven’t felt like hanging out.” Or “I have a lot going on.” Your message is: eh, don’t feel like it, can’t be bothered, etc. There’s no big confrontation here, but it does drag things out and may make you wish that she’d just go away.

2. Break up. Tell her straight up, “Hey, I’m not interested in being friends anymore, sorry.” She’ll ask why. You can say something like, “I just don’t think we have good friend chemistry.” She might want more details and you can say “I don’t want to get into this, I’m sorry. Bye.” This is a clean(ish) break, but you might feel bad about hurting her feelings. You’re not a bad person if you do. She might try to contact you again, in which case, block.

It sounds like you don’t want to stay friends with her. But in case you do:

3. Have boundaries: Tell her, just like you said, “you sometimes make statements that I'm not okay with and I wish you would just keep your viewpoints to yourself?” Maybe change it up to “…and I don’t think we should talk politics or about social issues.” So those topics are completely off the table. She might want examples and you can say things like, “Any social issue. Prisoners, homelessness, sexual assault, public health response, animal rights, climate change, racism, the death penalty, whether parents should spank their kids… anything controversial.” This is a good way to exercise your boundaries, but you’ll likely get pushback (“So I have to censor myself around you?” “Yes.” Bonus: maybe she won’t want to be friends with you because of that). If she’s ok with it, her views might still sneak in sometimes, like, “I just finished this book and the women in it were so slutty.”

4. Yes, be more insistent. Call her out (or in). “I think prisoners should absolutely be vaccinated first because ___. I disagree with your views on homelessness because ___.” [She says some stuff you disagree with.] “I’m not interested in talking about this anymore.” “Why?” “I’m just not. [subject change] Btw I saw this really cool bird the other day.” If she can be so blunt with her views, why can’t you? I realize that may not be your style, but no matter what, this friend is pushing you out of your comfort zone in different ways, so why not lean into that? You know the saying, keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer? Not to say that she’s an enemy (right now…).

But really, you don’t have to stay friends with her. And don’t stay friends with her because you’re not able to end it. So you kind of have to end it one way or the other.
posted by foxjacket at 9:04 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]


You're at the confluence of rules, ethics, and morals. You followed the rules and jumped the risk line. Friend jumped the same line but broke the rules. Ethics would say you are ok because the vaccine was offered to you under the rules. Friend, not so much. Now we get to the morality of the situation. While I do not see you and your friend as the same, I do not see you as much different either. If it worked that any person jumping the somewhat arbitrary line set up by each state is taking away a shot that would otherwise go to someone at higher risk or not so privileged, then you both are wrong. You even sensed it but rationalized why it was ok because it was offered to you officially.

I believe there are certain bright lines that if crossed would eliminate someone as being my friend. This is not one of them. (Fwiw, I am in a high risk category.) Getting the shot is not the issue. Being a liar and a conniver is. I have a friend who spends more time 'working the system" than it would take to just do it straight up. It is the nature of who they are. They need to "get a deal", be the first at something, etc. I just never put myself in a position where my interests conflict with theirs. I don't necessarily want my interests aligned with theirs because I do not want to be part of their manipulations, but never in conflict because if it comes down to me or them, I know it will be them. I have known this person for over 50 years. They were the same in kindergarten as they are now later in life.

I seriously doubt you will be able to change this person by calling them out or arguing with them. I think you either learn to live with their crap and take what you need out of the friendship or AMF them. You are never going to agree with 100% of what friends or family say or believe. You need to determine if the good outweighs the bad.

If this person is a one off friend, and you want to end the friendship, just tell them it is over. Playing games with fade out or making rules is going to lead to frustration. If they are part of a bigger friends group, deal with them in group settings by being cordial but distant and always turn down their one on one offers. Or, accept that not everyone is as perfect as we think we are, and appreciate the good while ignoring the bad.
posted by AugustWest at 9:47 AM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


If you were to wave a magic wand (that couldn't change the past), what does success look like to you? Is it that you two stay friends, but she avoids talking about these topics? Or is it that you two part ways (as it sounds like you've been trying to distance yourself anyway)?

Taking a step back, it does sound like you are exhausted with this person, and this seems to be the last straw. To take a non-morality-focused point of view, she does a thing or believes in a thing that you disagree with. You share with her your very different point of view, but then she keeps badgering you to "absolve" her actions/points of view. I would be exhausted! Healthy friendships *should* allow for disagreements on points of view/actions, vs. always demanding approval.

I have friends, who I suspect have points of view that I would object to, but because they don't bring it up, and I don't bring those topics up, I am OK with continuing our friendship on other terms b/c I enjoy those aspects. (Kind of like keeping some of the peace at the Thanksgiving dinner table.)

It's OK to not be the one to try to change her mind. It looks like you've tried, and you deserve to not be with a friend who doesn't suck away your energy.
posted by ellerhodes at 10:23 AM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]


Late to the party, and I'm only really going to address this part "Or, maybe be a little more insistent in the moment if she says something I don't agree with"

I've found quite a few times I've had to do this, and I'm just done taking on the emotional labour of trying to convince people to see the other side. So for me, my script is something along the lines of "Oh, wow. Yeah, you and I have drastically different views on the subject. I really dont want to get into it right now, so lets just not go there, ok?" And if they persist, it's a "Really? Why do you insist on talking about this? We're not going to agree here. Oh look, bird!" (or insert your own very obvious change of topic here)

Dropping this person as a friend is well covered above.
posted by cgg at 1:08 PM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]


You followed the rules and jumped the risk line. ... If it worked that any person jumping the somewhat arbitrary line set up by each state is taking away a shot that would otherwise go to someone at higher risk or not so privileged, then you both are wrong.

I don't think that's quite fair. The states determines the order of who gets a vaccine (largely based on federal guidance) and put OP and all their coworkers ahead of people with health risks for whatever reason. The orders have been set up to attempt to both those with the greatest risk from covid but also those that society relies on to keep running in various ways and/or are at substantial risk to spread an infection, even if they aren't personally likely to have severe health issues. It's not just a simple formula - there's lots of risk measurements involved and things like the logistics of distributing the vaccines, particularly the super low temperature ones, plays a part as well.

The constant guidance has been that if you're legitimately offered the vaccine, even if you're low risk and healthy, you should take it. We don't know what OP does or why their entire organization was given priority, but shaming people for doing what OP did in that situation is one of the things the health authorities have told us not to do.

To OP's question, it sounds like you're kind of done with the friend regardless. But one thing to contemplate - the rate of cheating to get ahead is about to shoot way up, because many states are on the cusp of moving to the "if you're overweight or have smoked 10 packs of cigarettes in your lifetime, you can get the vaccine as a high risk individual" phase and there's no proof required to validate that you even meet those trivial requirements, and a lot of people are going to cheat. If you make just doing so a big enough reason to ditch friends, you might end up feeling you did the noble thing but lonely.
posted by Candleman at 2:15 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


I can't think of a friend that I'm completely in sync with in terms of morality, what I can talk about with them, or how we spend time. I have many friends who got the vaccine earlier than I did by various means, some of them shadier than others. (for reference, I'm a cancer caregiver over 65 with asthma who normally works in the public schools). A dear friend under 40 got the vaccine much earlier than I did, and she didn't think twice about it. Neither did I. OTOH, another "friend" who has repeatedly demonstrated lack of compunction also got it, and I'm pretty much over that friendship.

If I were you, I'd go with your gut. If you don't want to be friends, don't. Be polite and distant, but maybe that's just what works for me.
posted by Peach at 2:26 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


We don't know this. That's why the CDC only endorses vaccinated people being unmasked around other vaccinated people.

I don't have an answer to the question, but I wanted to point out that the above statement is not correct. From the latest CDC guidelines: "Fully vaccinated people can visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing."

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html
posted by Awkward Philip at 3:08 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]


If you have mutual friends with this person, you might want to talk to them to give them your side of the story. Maybe before you break up with your friend. They may be sympathetic and understanding, which would be reassuring if you choose to breakup.
posted by conrad53 at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2021


I'm someone who qualified weeks ago and still can't get an appointment because they don't have enough doses. I have a different take on this. Given the number of people in my life who are planning not to get vaccinated, ever, I would be pathetically grateful if all they wanted to do was cut in front of me in line. Because in the end, that would be safer. I think the covid situation is complicated and I wouldn't hate someone who cut line.

HOWEVER, that's not the real question you're asking, and I get that.

If she's the kind of person I think she is, discussions won't work. It doesn't sound like you have social glue to keep you in the same friend orbit anyway, so if I were you I would slow fade. If she asked I would just say I'm busy and or that our interests are diverging and I don't feel like we have much in common, but I wish her well. The not much in common line could lead to questions though, so it's a dangerous tack.
posted by liminal_shadows at 8:14 PM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]


I'm hoping we just won't have to talk about this anymore, but I'm just tired of having interactions with this friend where she says something or does something that I'm not 100% okay with. I wish she would stop, I don't know, doing or saying things I disagree with? If she says something where I'm not okay with it I usually try to explain my point of view and act non-judgmental

there's your problem. abdicating judgment is a bad idea. on issues where you're lucky enough to have moral clarity, pretending you don't have it is not helpful and not good for you. hanging out with this person will continue to make you feel worse and worse if you continue to not judge and to belittle your position as a mere "point of view."

you don't have to ditch her to stay a good person, but you have to have the courage of your convictions. some courage, any courage. when she tells you very bad things she believes or has done, and gives space for you to react, react with honesty. Say that the thing shocks and upsets you and is wrong. you don't have to shout it, just say it. let her end the conversations if she wants, but don't back down first. If you are lucky, doing this consistently will lead to her not talking to you anymore. if you are unlucky, it will just be stressful and you will have to keep on doing it forever. That is the price of staying friends with a person like that. you can't change her (probably, maybe) but you can't enable her with silence either.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:56 AM on March 16, 2021 [2 favorites]


sooner than I should be eligible, but really by a twist that an institution I'm a part of was vaccinating all of its members, sanctioned by the state health authority.

I just want to address this line — if your vaccination was sanctioned by the state health authority, then you were eligible for vaccination. You have nothing to feel bad about.

I would also add that when someone says "don't make me feel guilty" it's because they have realised they have done the wrong thing, feel guilty, but are having trouble accepting that. There's a good chance they told you about this in the first place because they were hoping you would assuage their pre-existing guilt.
posted by robcorr at 5:35 PM on March 16, 2021 [2 favorites]


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