Is it possible to spark a new flame?
March 12, 2021 2:18 PM Subscribe
My physical attraction to my girlfriend has recently waxed and waned. The relationship is otherwise perfect and I'm at a crossroads at what to do.
I (both 27) have dated my partner for 1.5 years and, with the help of my psychiatrist, I realized that I have a waxing and waning physical attraction for my girlfriend. I have realized that while she is definitely pretty, she also goes in and out of what are my physical standards in a partner. I think part of this is that I usually never see her in makeup because of 24/7 quarantine. I know people will ask about this - in the beginning, I thought she was absolutely beautiful.
While I try to be realistic, I know that I also feel like a massive superficial piece of shit.
I've had intrusive thoughts about breaking up for nearly a year and I didn't know why until yesterday, when my psychiatrist helped me uncover this. We found out that this stems from varying feelings of childhood inadequacy that I don't want to explain over the internet, but something that my psychiatrist said I might be able to work on. And I'd love to work on that, but now that I've made this revelation I really don't want to lead my girlfriend on. I don't even want physical attraction to be a limiting factor between us! I want to be able to put that aside so that we can still be together, because she is the only person in my life outside of myself who has ever inspired me to be the best person I can be. Knowing me, I don't think anyone else will match up to her. But I can't wonder what if? And make all these hypothetical what if questions that never lead me anywhere.
I've been plagued with a series of mental illnesses. Bipolar, anxiety, BPD to name a few. I've had so many traumatic experiences that I often feel a need to compensate for in some way now. And in every step of my recovery process (I've been in therapy for six months and have.... casually relapsed as I type this) she has been my rock. We have gone through so much together and I want to be there with her for so much more. But as the previous paragraph suggests, there is now a cloud that I can't just ignore anymore, and my frantic googling + overreliance on the internet to figure out what others have done isn't making things better.
To make matters worse, she is going through an insanely difficult time in her life. Her mother was diagnosed with cancer and both of us have a very important standardized exam (we are in grad school) coming up that literally dictates our career options - it will be the most important exam in our lives. Having been the recipient of heartbreak myself, I'm really scared of how she'll react and how she'll perform on that test. And I just met their family this week and they are so kind! Maybe I could hold off a decision for 2-3 months and reassess then? I've had an otherwise perfect relationship.
Lay it to me straight. Ask MetaFilter has been useful in the two other times I've asked to make a major life decision.
I (both 27) have dated my partner for 1.5 years and, with the help of my psychiatrist, I realized that I have a waxing and waning physical attraction for my girlfriend. I have realized that while she is definitely pretty, she also goes in and out of what are my physical standards in a partner. I think part of this is that I usually never see her in makeup because of 24/7 quarantine. I know people will ask about this - in the beginning, I thought she was absolutely beautiful.
While I try to be realistic, I know that I also feel like a massive superficial piece of shit.
I've had intrusive thoughts about breaking up for nearly a year and I didn't know why until yesterday, when my psychiatrist helped me uncover this. We found out that this stems from varying feelings of childhood inadequacy that I don't want to explain over the internet, but something that my psychiatrist said I might be able to work on. And I'd love to work on that, but now that I've made this revelation I really don't want to lead my girlfriend on. I don't even want physical attraction to be a limiting factor between us! I want to be able to put that aside so that we can still be together, because she is the only person in my life outside of myself who has ever inspired me to be the best person I can be. Knowing me, I don't think anyone else will match up to her. But I can't wonder what if? And make all these hypothetical what if questions that never lead me anywhere.
I've been plagued with a series of mental illnesses. Bipolar, anxiety, BPD to name a few. I've had so many traumatic experiences that I often feel a need to compensate for in some way now. And in every step of my recovery process (I've been in therapy for six months and have.... casually relapsed as I type this) she has been my rock. We have gone through so much together and I want to be there with her for so much more. But as the previous paragraph suggests, there is now a cloud that I can't just ignore anymore, and my frantic googling + overreliance on the internet to figure out what others have done isn't making things better.
To make matters worse, she is going through an insanely difficult time in her life. Her mother was diagnosed with cancer and both of us have a very important standardized exam (we are in grad school) coming up that literally dictates our career options - it will be the most important exam in our lives. Having been the recipient of heartbreak myself, I'm really scared of how she'll react and how she'll perform on that test. And I just met their family this week and they are so kind! Maybe I could hold off a decision for 2-3 months and reassess then? I've had an otherwise perfect relationship.
Lay it to me straight. Ask MetaFilter has been useful in the two other times I've asked to make a major life decision.
She's 27 and you're already feeling like she's not up to your physical standards? Break up with her now. Please. Please don't wait until you're married, and she's years older, and maybe with a couple of pregnancies under her belt. Now's the time. You will be doing her a giant favor.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:26 PM on March 12, 2021 [52 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:26 PM on March 12, 2021 [52 favorites]
Is it just your attraction to your girlfriend that has diminished, or your libido in general? Lockdown has been tough on people in so many ways, and it was pretty early days as far as your dating goes before it hit. It's normal for desire to ebb and flow once you're past the early heady (and horny!) days of a relationship. If it's as good as you say, and you want to be there for her as she has been for you, I'd hold off unless you're sure you're going to want to end things. Then you need to rip off the bandaid.
posted by kate4914 at 2:30 PM on March 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by kate4914 at 2:30 PM on March 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
You don't say what your long term relationship goals are. Do you eventually want to get married and have kids? Or do you want to have a couple of years of living with someone who is pretty to look at?
If it's the latter, you should break up with her now.
On the other hand, if your goal is to have a real relationship with a person who has a personality, and depth, and aspirations, and dreams, I would encourage you to set aside your need for eye candy, buckle down, and do the work of making a relationship.
Really. You say the relationship is "otherwise perfect ". Do you know how rare that is? Go for it. Physical attraction waxes and wanes all the time. That is normal. People age. The way the look changes. But that's not, shouldn't be, doesn't have to be the basis of a relationship.
Love is a verb, not a noun. It is something you do, with intention. You have a relationship that is so great. Do the verb, hold onto the intention. Make it work. Don't let some external conception of beauty and some external standard of "not up to my standards" get in the way of our happiness. That is a construct that will only cause you misery if you chase it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:35 PM on March 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
If it's the latter, you should break up with her now.
On the other hand, if your goal is to have a real relationship with a person who has a personality, and depth, and aspirations, and dreams, I would encourage you to set aside your need for eye candy, buckle down, and do the work of making a relationship.
Really. You say the relationship is "otherwise perfect ". Do you know how rare that is? Go for it. Physical attraction waxes and wanes all the time. That is normal. People age. The way the look changes. But that's not, shouldn't be, doesn't have to be the basis of a relationship.
Love is a verb, not a noun. It is something you do, with intention. You have a relationship that is so great. Do the verb, hold onto the intention. Make it work. Don't let some external conception of beauty and some external standard of "not up to my standards" get in the way of our happiness. That is a construct that will only cause you misery if you chase it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 2:35 PM on March 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
I don't understand your train of thought entirely here...
1) therapist helps identify waxing and waning attraction
2) says this is stemming from something they can definitely help you work on
3) you would love to work on it
SO
4) break up!
Huh? I think you might want to examine whether your cut-and-run impulse isn't maybe a self-defensive reflex against the harder emotional work you are embarking on here.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:36 PM on March 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
1) therapist helps identify waxing and waning attraction
2) says this is stemming from something they can definitely help you work on
3) you would love to work on it
SO
4) break up!
Huh? I think you might want to examine whether your cut-and-run impulse isn't maybe a self-defensive reflex against the harder emotional work you are embarking on here.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:36 PM on March 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
(Totally no shade, btw--I also definitely tend to blow up good things in my life to avoid focusing on myself, it's very much a normal human impulse but learning to curb it will probably make your life a lot better in the long run)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Break up. It’s good that you are getting help and that you recognize this is something you need to work on, but I don’t think this means you need to involve her in that work. Dating a guy who is trying to overcome his waxing and waning physical attraction isn’t something I’d ever want for myself or any of my friends.
posted by cakelite at 2:43 PM on March 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 2:43 PM on March 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
I'm finding myself a little hung up on your use of the term "physical standards." Listen everyone is entitled to have physical preferences and things that turn them on or off, but women are subjected constantly, from childhood to unrealistic expectations about they way they should look, behave, how much they should weigh, have sex, eat, drink, etc.
Women don't need more standards to meet in their closest relationships. They need to be loved, accepted and desired as they are. With or without makeup. In fancy lingerie or granny panties. With and without stretchmarks. If you can't give that to her, then she deserves someone else.
You are also in more control of what you find sexy than you think. Sexiness is not just about looks, it's about attitude, charisma, humor, energy. You aren't required or doomed to be superficial. You should consider thinking through all the qualities that go into making someone sexy to you, talk to your therapist about this. You can grow and expand your thinking.
posted by brookeb at 2:48 PM on March 12, 2021 [71 favorites]
Women don't need more standards to meet in their closest relationships. They need to be loved, accepted and desired as they are. With or without makeup. In fancy lingerie or granny panties. With and without stretchmarks. If you can't give that to her, then she deserves someone else.
You are also in more control of what you find sexy than you think. Sexiness is not just about looks, it's about attitude, charisma, humor, energy. You aren't required or doomed to be superficial. You should consider thinking through all the qualities that go into making someone sexy to you, talk to your therapist about this. You can grow and expand your thinking.
posted by brookeb at 2:48 PM on March 12, 2021 [71 favorites]
Maybe I could hold off a decision for 2-3 months and reassess then? I've had an otherwise perfect relationship.
I mean 2-3 months wouldn't be the worst. At the same time, if I am understanding what you're saying about makeup, you like the way she looks with makeup and... not without? If that is the case (and again, no shade, you like what you like) then this is not the relationship for you. Women without makeup are HOW THEY LOOK and one of the big differences about being in a LTR with someone and just casually dating is you've got to be okay with all the ways people look. Not necessarily 100% attracted to all of them, but okay with all of them and you may not be.
I sometimes go in and out of attraction to my partner, short term stuff, can be things going on with me or things going on with him. But we've been together nearly 13 years and I think that is a little more normative.
Knowing me, I don't think anyone else will match up to her.
I know this feeling well, but it's just a feeling. Being in relationships stimulate the production of oxytocin in our brains that specifically make us feel that no one else will ever be okay for us. And breakups are hard. But, especially at your age, they are not the end of everything. COVID times have been difficult time and it sounds like you're struggling a lot. I think waiting a little bit is okay but then try to have a frank conversation about this. There are a lot of ways relationships can grow and change if both people are wanting the same things. You may want to check in with your gf to see where she's at about all of this.
posted by jessamyn at 2:50 PM on March 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
I mean 2-3 months wouldn't be the worst. At the same time, if I am understanding what you're saying about makeup, you like the way she looks with makeup and... not without? If that is the case (and again, no shade, you like what you like) then this is not the relationship for you. Women without makeup are HOW THEY LOOK and one of the big differences about being in a LTR with someone and just casually dating is you've got to be okay with all the ways people look. Not necessarily 100% attracted to all of them, but okay with all of them and you may not be.
I sometimes go in and out of attraction to my partner, short term stuff, can be things going on with me or things going on with him. But we've been together nearly 13 years and I think that is a little more normative.
Knowing me, I don't think anyone else will match up to her.
I know this feeling well, but it's just a feeling. Being in relationships stimulate the production of oxytocin in our brains that specifically make us feel that no one else will ever be okay for us. And breakups are hard. But, especially at your age, they are not the end of everything. COVID times have been difficult time and it sounds like you're struggling a lot. I think waiting a little bit is okay but then try to have a frank conversation about this. There are a lot of ways relationships can grow and change if both people are wanting the same things. You may want to check in with your gf to see where she's at about all of this.
posted by jessamyn at 2:50 PM on March 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
It's normal for attraction, love and even liking to wax and wane in a long-term relationship.
Ask your psychiatrist, they'll confirm this.
If there is something of value apart from this, hold on.
Otherwise, jump off.
posted by signal at 2:56 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ask your psychiatrist, they'll confirm this.
If there is something of value apart from this, hold on.
Otherwise, jump off.
posted by signal at 2:56 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
You've been thinking about breaking up with her for 2/3 of the time you've been dating. Do her a favor and break up with her. Does she know the extent of the doubts you're having?
posted by hydra77 at 3:03 PM on March 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 3:03 PM on March 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
My fear for you is that you let go of a good, rare thing for the wrong reasons. At the same time, I would hate to be your girlfriend. In fact, I suspect I have been your girlfriend; I spent four years with a hot-and-cold partner with bipolar disorder.
Do your waxing and waning feelings tie into your bipolar manic/depressive phases? They did for him. He broke up with me and came back multiple times. Eventually, I was the one to end it.
I did actually once think that he was the final arbiter of my own attractiveness, but then when we broke up I had no shortage of interest from other men who found me beautiful. I suspect it would be the same for your girlfriend. Ask yourself honestly how you would feel about that. And also ask whether your mental illness is clouding your true feelings for her.
posted by gold bridges at 3:07 PM on March 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Do your waxing and waning feelings tie into your bipolar manic/depressive phases? They did for him. He broke up with me and came back multiple times. Eventually, I was the one to end it.
I did actually once think that he was the final arbiter of my own attractiveness, but then when we broke up I had no shortage of interest from other men who found me beautiful. I suspect it would be the same for your girlfriend. Ask yourself honestly how you would feel about that. And also ask whether your mental illness is clouding your true feelings for her.
posted by gold bridges at 3:07 PM on March 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm looking at the timing of all this.
You're in grad school, in some kind of intensive career program, and stakes are high.
You've been dating 1.5 years.
1 year of that has been COVID lockdown.
1 year of that has been you having "intrusive thoughts" about breaking up.
6 months of that have been you in therapy.
I'm just thinking: when has this relationship even had time to breathe? Like, when was it both serious and also wholly good for you?
This stuff about "standards," you'll either eventually grow out of that or you won't. But I don't know many relationships that could withstand all that stress when being so new anyway. It sounds awfully volatile, actually.
Couple recommendations:
When you say "perfect," what does "perfect" look like to you? What's a "perfect" relationship? Think that through and define it for yourself.
Does that change based on life stage? Like, is what's perfect now also what's going to be perfect in 10 years? What goals do you have for your relationship life and family life? Think that through and then think about whether this is feeling like something with a long-term potential, or more of a "while we're in school" thing.
What's happening after you graduate? Given this test with life-changing consequences, is it possible the two of you go off in different geographic directions? In other words, is there a natural point coming this spring where you have to have this conversation anyway? If so, use that.
I agree this doesn't have to be immediate. If you want a few more months to think and work on it in therapy, take it. You're stuck in grad school anyhow and there's a pandemic. But if you remain ambivalent, I'd recommend putting this on the table honestly and talking about whether you have a real future together. Nobody deserves to be in a relationship where the partner is ambivalent, especially over a long time. That's just mean and does more to service one person's need for comfort and stability than both partners' needs to thrive.
posted by Miko at 3:08 PM on March 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
You're in grad school, in some kind of intensive career program, and stakes are high.
You've been dating 1.5 years.
1 year of that has been COVID lockdown.
1 year of that has been you having "intrusive thoughts" about breaking up.
6 months of that have been you in therapy.
I'm just thinking: when has this relationship even had time to breathe? Like, when was it both serious and also wholly good for you?
This stuff about "standards," you'll either eventually grow out of that or you won't. But I don't know many relationships that could withstand all that stress when being so new anyway. It sounds awfully volatile, actually.
Couple recommendations:
When you say "perfect," what does "perfect" look like to you? What's a "perfect" relationship? Think that through and define it for yourself.
Does that change based on life stage? Like, is what's perfect now also what's going to be perfect in 10 years? What goals do you have for your relationship life and family life? Think that through and then think about whether this is feeling like something with a long-term potential, or more of a "while we're in school" thing.
What's happening after you graduate? Given this test with life-changing consequences, is it possible the two of you go off in different geographic directions? In other words, is there a natural point coming this spring where you have to have this conversation anyway? If so, use that.
I agree this doesn't have to be immediate. If you want a few more months to think and work on it in therapy, take it. You're stuck in grad school anyhow and there's a pandemic. But if you remain ambivalent, I'd recommend putting this on the table honestly and talking about whether you have a real future together. Nobody deserves to be in a relationship where the partner is ambivalent, especially over a long time. That's just mean and does more to service one person's need for comfort and stability than both partners' needs to thrive.
posted by Miko at 3:08 PM on March 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
I implore you to not have “a frank conversation about this.” Trying to practice radical honesty about how unattractive she is to you when she doesn’t wear makeup could give her an unfair but no less real complex about her appearance.
posted by cakelite at 3:10 PM on March 12, 2021 [68 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 3:10 PM on March 12, 2021 [68 favorites]
I've had intrusive thoughts about breaking up for nearly a year and I didn't know why until yesterday, when my psychiatrist helped me uncover this. We found out that this stems from varying feelings of childhood inadequacy
If this is true, then it is really not actually about her physical attractiveness, it is about your stuff. With such a heavy load of trauma and mental health issues, it is Ok to say that you don't have what it take to be a loving relationship right now and your sexual interest is low. But it isn't fair to her or honest with yourself to say that it is simply because she isn't wearing makeup - it is obviously far more complicated than that.
I don't know your inner processes but I would encourage you to do o a reality check with your therapist to make sure that your thinking is not caught up in some cognitive distortions created by that same childhood stuff than you mentioned.
Again, your mental health might be in place where asking yourself to stay in the relationship and keep trying is more than you can manage. On the other hand, if you think you should try but aren't sure if it is fair to her then the right thing is talk about where you are and let her make her own decision. But to have that conversation work, I think you need to do more talking with your therapist to figure out where you truly are in this relationship.
posted by metahawk at 3:12 PM on March 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
If this is true, then it is really not actually about her physical attractiveness, it is about your stuff. With such a heavy load of trauma and mental health issues, it is Ok to say that you don't have what it take to be a loving relationship right now and your sexual interest is low. But it isn't fair to her or honest with yourself to say that it is simply because she isn't wearing makeup - it is obviously far more complicated than that.
I don't know your inner processes but I would encourage you to do o a reality check with your therapist to make sure that your thinking is not caught up in some cognitive distortions created by that same childhood stuff than you mentioned.
Again, your mental health might be in place where asking yourself to stay in the relationship and keep trying is more than you can manage. On the other hand, if you think you should try but aren't sure if it is fair to her then the right thing is talk about where you are and let her make her own decision. But to have that conversation work, I think you need to do more talking with your therapist to figure out where you truly are in this relationship.
posted by metahawk at 3:12 PM on March 12, 2021 [19 favorites]
I realized that I have a waxing and waning physical attraction for my girlfriend. I have realized that while she is definitely pretty, she also goes in and out of what are my physical standards in a partner
Do you think your girlfriend's physical attraction to you has possibly "waxed and waned" throughout your relationship? Have you considered her "physical standards in a partner" and whether or not you have met them all the time without fail?
I'm not trying to sound harsh. I am asking this because I strongly agree with the comments suggesting that you should talk to your girlfriend about these feelings and see where it goes. Give her the opportunity to have a conversation with you, rather than hiding your feelings from her.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 3:13 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Do you think your girlfriend's physical attraction to you has possibly "waxed and waned" throughout your relationship? Have you considered her "physical standards in a partner" and whether or not you have met them all the time without fail?
I'm not trying to sound harsh. I am asking this because I strongly agree with the comments suggesting that you should talk to your girlfriend about these feelings and see where it goes. Give her the opportunity to have a conversation with you, rather than hiding your feelings from her.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 3:13 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I know this is not a popular opinion, but yes, wait to make the decision until after the exam. Please don't be the guy who shakes her confidence AND fucks her career. During pandemic.
posted by namesarehard at 3:15 PM on March 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by namesarehard at 3:15 PM on March 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
Response by poster: Looks like there's a split in responses, and that's what I guessed when posting this. I'd like to respond to a few comments.
My goals are to eventually marry and have kids. I think there is an internal, paradoxical notion going on because despite what I write here, I can happily still see myself in a great marriage and have kids with her (even if it means I have to go to therapy to be a good dad, but that's an entirely different topic....)
My girlfriend is at the end of the day, still the most beautiful girl in the world to me. Easily. There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls. It's really shallow and paradoxical, I'm trying to make sense of it.
I've actually talked to my partner assessing our relationship several times, and this has come up. I assess because from experience prior relationships, doing so keeps us on the same page. I have also asked her (too many times....) if she feels hurt from this and she says no every time. I believe her.
And lastly, I've been plagued with mental illnesses all my life. I have no idea how much this is clouding my current decision making. It's something I keep in the back of my mind when stepping back.
Final comment.... so many responses at once I can't keep up. Whether I agree or disagree with your thoughts, I appreciate everyone's feedback.
posted by invictus10 at 3:17 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
My goals are to eventually marry and have kids. I think there is an internal, paradoxical notion going on because despite what I write here, I can happily still see myself in a great marriage and have kids with her (even if it means I have to go to therapy to be a good dad, but that's an entirely different topic....)
My girlfriend is at the end of the day, still the most beautiful girl in the world to me. Easily. There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls. It's really shallow and paradoxical, I'm trying to make sense of it.
I've actually talked to my partner assessing our relationship several times, and this has come up. I assess because from experience prior relationships, doing so keeps us on the same page. I have also asked her (too many times....) if she feels hurt from this and she says no every time. I believe her.
And lastly, I've been plagued with mental illnesses all my life. I have no idea how much this is clouding my current decision making. It's something I keep in the back of my mind when stepping back.
Final comment.... so many responses at once I can't keep up. Whether I agree or disagree with your thoughts, I appreciate everyone's feedback.
posted by invictus10 at 3:17 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
And lastly, I've been plagued with mental illnesses all my life. I have no idea how much this is clouding my current decision making. It's something I keep in the back of my mind when stepping back.
This is great. I know it's so tough to have answers when you're in the thick of it, but at least considering its role is an excellent first step, rather than trusting every intrusive thought about model-beautiful women to be some representative of "the truth."
It sounds like you truly love this woman and are just struggling right now. My heart goes out to you both. I firmly fall in the "don't break up with her" category. Give it time to breathe, as Miko said.
posted by gold bridges at 3:22 PM on March 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is great. I know it's so tough to have answers when you're in the thick of it, but at least considering its role is an excellent first step, rather than trusting every intrusive thought about model-beautiful women to be some representative of "the truth."
It sounds like you truly love this woman and are just struggling right now. My heart goes out to you both. I firmly fall in the "don't break up with her" category. Give it time to breathe, as Miko said.
posted by gold bridges at 3:22 PM on March 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's super normal to go through ebbs and flows in terms of how attractive you find your partner (and vice versa). I'd compare this to having an intense crush on someone else when you're in a monogamous relationship: sometimes it's just a matter of having encountered someone you have chemistry with, and experiencing the excitement of possibility, and you can enjoy/cope with the crush until it passes; and sometimes it's a red flag that you're unsatisfied with your relationship. A crush isn't an automatic sign to break up, but it's worth examining. Likewise, a downturn in your attraction to your partner is an opportunity to assess: what's going on with my libido? What appearance-related preferences do I hold that are based in toxic, ageist, ableist, fatphobic, white supremacist beauty standards?* How is my childhood trauma influencing my adult self here? When was the last time I examined my assumptions about long-term relationships? Are there things I could reasonably ask of my partner, such as, "I miss seeing you all dolled up, can we do a fancy date night this week? I'll pick up takeout from XYZ fancy place."
*An easy step to take with this one is to increase the diversity you expose yourself to. If you use social media, start following women with different racial and ethnic backgrounds, fat women, women with different gender presentations, disabled women, older women. Most of the images presented to us through marketing and entertainment show "woman" as a very young, thin, white, apparently able-bodied, feminine, cisgender woman wearing whatever hair, makeup, and clothing is considered in-fashion. We passively absorb this narrowed definition of what makes a woman beautiful just by existing in society. We can broaden our appreciation for what can be beautiful, or sexy, or attractive by seeking out other images. (And this is a good thing to do even if you break up with this girlfriend--if you're going to be in a long-term relationship ever again, you'll be in a relationship with a human who has a body. Existing in a body means aging, gaining or losing weight, shifting style preferences, disabling injuries or illnesses, and many other possible changes.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:25 PM on March 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
*An easy step to take with this one is to increase the diversity you expose yourself to. If you use social media, start following women with different racial and ethnic backgrounds, fat women, women with different gender presentations, disabled women, older women. Most of the images presented to us through marketing and entertainment show "woman" as a very young, thin, white, apparently able-bodied, feminine, cisgender woman wearing whatever hair, makeup, and clothing is considered in-fashion. We passively absorb this narrowed definition of what makes a woman beautiful just by existing in society. We can broaden our appreciation for what can be beautiful, or sexy, or attractive by seeking out other images. (And this is a good thing to do even if you break up with this girlfriend--if you're going to be in a long-term relationship ever again, you'll be in a relationship with a human who has a body. Existing in a body means aging, gaining or losing weight, shifting style preferences, disabling injuries or illnesses, and many other possible changes.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:25 PM on March 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls
Most models also look completely different without makeup...so if you were actually in a relationship with one, you might be in the same situation. From what you say about feelings of inadequacy, it sounds like maybe you want a "hot" girlfriend to feel better about how you look yourself? If that's the case, it seems like something you can definitely work on. But if I was your girlfriend, I really wouldn't be happy to know that you were thinking like this.
posted by pinochiette at 3:28 PM on March 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
Most models also look completely different without makeup...so if you were actually in a relationship with one, you might be in the same situation. From what you say about feelings of inadequacy, it sounds like maybe you want a "hot" girlfriend to feel better about how you look yourself? If that's the case, it seems like something you can definitely work on. But if I was your girlfriend, I really wouldn't be happy to know that you were thinking like this.
posted by pinochiette at 3:28 PM on March 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
Respectfully, your previous question here was about panicked ambivalence -- that time about your work situation -- that was cropping up in the months before a very big exam. That's not to say that your questions and concerns aren't valid, but rather to say that anxiety, like depression, can be very seductive in painting a doomy picture of the world that might not be as true as it feels in the moment. I say give yourself a couple months before you make any big proclamation or decisions.
posted by attentionplease at 3:28 PM on March 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by attentionplease at 3:28 PM on March 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
You state physical attraction to my girlfriend has recently waxed and waned. What you don't specify is that that's a critical component of a relationship for you. That's a decision. If I were giving her advice, I'd tell her to value herself more highly and be in a relationship where she is fully valued for all of who she is. If I were giving advice to you, I'd say be in a relationship where you fully value her for all of who she is because it sounds like she does that for you.
posted by theora55 at 3:34 PM on March 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 3:34 PM on March 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
as brookeb points out, there's a certain pressure on men to have "standards" which may or may not correspond, deep down, to more personal feelings of attraction. like the phenomenon of "ratings" where men say "she's a 9" or "she's a 7 at best" -- thinking about women in this framework makes it harder to be attracted to the "7 at best" even if she has many other attractive qualities. it might be worth thinking more about what "physical standards" mean to you, and whether they're really *your* standards or whether they're standards you've absorbed from somewhere else.
posted by panic at 3:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by panic at 3:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque
I mean, so? All of us have that, my dude. Including your girlfriend FYI, or did you not think she looks at one Hemsworth or another and says "well hello sailor" to herself? Should she break up with you and hold out for Thor? Probably that sounds ridonk, right? Well.
Agreed with others above that this is probably a REALLY sucky intersection of:
- where you're at with your mental health
- a relationship that has been through a year of a pandemic
- a relationship that is hitting its post-honeymoon phase
- exam and career stress
- late-stage growing up, learning to develop a mature theory of attraction/the humanity of women
For what it's worth:
I once stayed in a relationship too long, and lost out on a potentially great partner, so that I would not break someone's heart before their bar exam. They passed. I have a LOT of regrets in my romantic life, like, SO MANY, but that ain't one.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [50 favorites]
I mean, so? All of us have that, my dude. Including your girlfriend FYI, or did you not think she looks at one Hemsworth or another and says "well hello sailor" to herself? Should she break up with you and hold out for Thor? Probably that sounds ridonk, right? Well.
Agreed with others above that this is probably a REALLY sucky intersection of:
- where you're at with your mental health
- a relationship that has been through a year of a pandemic
- a relationship that is hitting its post-honeymoon phase
- exam and career stress
- late-stage growing up, learning to develop a mature theory of attraction/the humanity of women
For what it's worth:
I once stayed in a relationship too long, and lost out on a potentially great partner, so that I would not break someone's heart before their bar exam. They passed. I have a LOT of regrets in my romantic life, like, SO MANY, but that ain't one.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:38 PM on March 12, 2021 [50 favorites]
My girlfriend is at the end of the day, still the most beautiful girl in the world to me. Easily. There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls. It's really shallow and paradoxical, I'm trying to make sense of it.
I would really like to know how you define this lack of attraction to your girlfriend, because based on this I’m worried it’s something like “I am actually still attracted to her but I don’t get an instant boner every time I look at her, like I do when I watch porn, and that means our relationship is doomed.”
How is your sex life?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:53 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
I would really like to know how you define this lack of attraction to your girlfriend, because based on this I’m worried it’s something like “I am actually still attracted to her but I don’t get an instant boner every time I look at her, like I do when I watch porn, and that means our relationship is doomed.”
How is your sex life?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:53 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
You’ve been together a year and a half, and you’ve been wanting to break up for a year. In other words, for the majority of the time you’ve spent together, you wanted to break up. Break up.
posted by betweenthebars at 3:57 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 3:57 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls.
Okay, so follow that thread. That kind of attractiveness has an expiration date, so you could leave your girlfriend and go find one of these who wants to be with you, and then she will age for a couple of years and your attraction will wane. So you leave her and go find another mid-twenties woman. Then she will age, and you'll need to leave her and go find another mid-twenties woman. You'll turn 30, 35, 40, and they'll always be 25 and everything will be so tight and perky and your pants feelings will be so damn good.
Is that the life you want? Some people do, but you can't make someone be that partner for you if they're not, you have to go find ones who meet your requirements up front.
There are many trade-offs. You will need to provide increasing benefits to your partners as you age out of their personal interest levels. You will find your time management may struggle as you try to accommodate a young hot woman's social life with work and anything else you wanted to do - assuming you're invited to participate in her social life, which may also diminish as you age out of their cohort. Obviously pregnancy is going to disqualify them from your attraction, especially with the risk of permanent damage to your prioritized features, so any family hopes you had would probably be coparenting with an ex-partner at best. Most 25-year-olds are not looking for someone to take care of, as well, so you will need to mostly take care of yourself.
Or, do you want to put some personal growth into becoming someone with a different set of priorities? Someone who understands how to appreciate a partner and feel the lust of close ongoing relationship intimacy instead of tight- and perkiness, which you recognize as being pleasant but not your priority?
What you don't get to do is repeatedly make it your girlfriend's problem that you find other people fuckable, as almost all human beings do even when they are in relationships but learn how to manage those feelings on their own. It does not matter if she keeps telling you it's okay, when you know it's actually not. Don't give people the opportunity to "consent" to substandard treatment, have some personal boundaries about what you will and won't put someone else through.
One of the most abusive relationships I was ever in was completely undramatic in every way, except that I was always on the bubble of being dumped because I wasn't hot enough and wasn't ever gonna be and we both knew it. It was always expected that I find ways to indulge all these other fetishes and interests in order to be enough for his boner and therefore his attention and good regard. It was awful. Don't do that to people.
Whatever it is you want to choose as a life course, I think you should be single as you navigate that decision. You don't really want to be with the person you're with right now, so end that relationship and do it without telling her it's because she's not hot enough.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:01 PM on March 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
Okay, so follow that thread. That kind of attractiveness has an expiration date, so you could leave your girlfriend and go find one of these who wants to be with you, and then she will age for a couple of years and your attraction will wane. So you leave her and go find another mid-twenties woman. Then she will age, and you'll need to leave her and go find another mid-twenties woman. You'll turn 30, 35, 40, and they'll always be 25 and everything will be so tight and perky and your pants feelings will be so damn good.
Is that the life you want? Some people do, but you can't make someone be that partner for you if they're not, you have to go find ones who meet your requirements up front.
There are many trade-offs. You will need to provide increasing benefits to your partners as you age out of their personal interest levels. You will find your time management may struggle as you try to accommodate a young hot woman's social life with work and anything else you wanted to do - assuming you're invited to participate in her social life, which may also diminish as you age out of their cohort. Obviously pregnancy is going to disqualify them from your attraction, especially with the risk of permanent damage to your prioritized features, so any family hopes you had would probably be coparenting with an ex-partner at best. Most 25-year-olds are not looking for someone to take care of, as well, so you will need to mostly take care of yourself.
Or, do you want to put some personal growth into becoming someone with a different set of priorities? Someone who understands how to appreciate a partner and feel the lust of close ongoing relationship intimacy instead of tight- and perkiness, which you recognize as being pleasant but not your priority?
What you don't get to do is repeatedly make it your girlfriend's problem that you find other people fuckable, as almost all human beings do even when they are in relationships but learn how to manage those feelings on their own. It does not matter if she keeps telling you it's okay, when you know it's actually not. Don't give people the opportunity to "consent" to substandard treatment, have some personal boundaries about what you will and won't put someone else through.
One of the most abusive relationships I was ever in was completely undramatic in every way, except that I was always on the bubble of being dumped because I wasn't hot enough and wasn't ever gonna be and we both knew it. It was always expected that I find ways to indulge all these other fetishes and interests in order to be enough for his boner and therefore his attention and good regard. It was awful. Don't do that to people.
Whatever it is you want to choose as a life course, I think you should be single as you navigate that decision. You don't really want to be with the person you're with right now, so end that relationship and do it without telling her it's because she's not hot enough.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:01 PM on March 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
What are you doing to keep yourself looking fresh for your girlfriend? Are you grooming your facial and body hair? Putting on real pants and shirts every day? Keeping yourself fit? Wearing nice, clean underpants or the same crusty boxers with shot elastic?
I only ask because most of the men I hear talk about how their wives or girlfriends are letting themselves go are Homer Simpson looking tragedies and have absolutely zero self awareness in this arena.
posted by phunniemee at 4:09 PM on March 12, 2021 [38 favorites]
I only ask because most of the men I hear talk about how their wives or girlfriends are letting themselves go are Homer Simpson looking tragedies and have absolutely zero self awareness in this arena.
posted by phunniemee at 4:09 PM on March 12, 2021 [38 favorites]
I firmly believe that if you stop feeling hot for your partner less than 2 years into the relationship, it's not the person you should marry. You may also need to work on your weird makeup thing, but like, I doubt that if you were super hot for her makeup would make this much of a difference. You're young, it's not been that long, just break up.
posted by ch1x0r at 4:31 PM on March 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by ch1x0r at 4:31 PM on March 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
The "physical standards" and "model-esque girls" and "childhood inadequacy" kinda looks to me like it adds up to: you feel like your own self worth depends on how hot your girlfriend is.
Lots of men have this failing.
Break up with her. It's incredibly cruel to pretend to love someone when their value to you is really based on how well they function as the object that props up your ego.
posted by Sublimity at 4:33 PM on March 12, 2021 [30 favorites]
Lots of men have this failing.
Break up with her. It's incredibly cruel to pretend to love someone when their value to you is really based on how well they function as the object that props up your ego.
posted by Sublimity at 4:33 PM on March 12, 2021 [30 favorites]
You clearly need to keep working on yourself and she deserves the freedom to find someone who loves her as she is, with or without stuff painted on her face. Which is not you at the moment or maybe ever. She deserves better than what you can offer.
posted by emjaybee at 5:00 PM on March 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:00 PM on March 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
You've got a lot of good advice so far, if I could like brookeb's comment twice, I would.
Like showbiz_liz, I think it might be helpful for you (perhaps with your therapist) to interrogate what you mean by "attraction" and your expectations around this. Like, if you rarely want to have sex with your girlfriend, and rarely feel aroused, then yeah that's a problem (though I agree, it would be kind to just wait until the test is over). But if by decreased attraction you just mean you're no longer "omg omg let's have sex!" every time you see her- well, that's not exactly a problem, that's life.
I'll end by saying that the pandemic has been hard on a lot of people's sex lives. And career stress can be bad for a libido too. So, if both of you are experiencing a lower libido right now, I'd make a pact to not worry about this until after the test. By then, it will hopefully be safe to go on dates, hang out with friends, and just generally be happier. If you're still feeling a low-attraction for your girlfriend then, then I'd breakup (but don't mention makeup when you do, yeesh)
posted by coffeecat at 5:01 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Like showbiz_liz, I think it might be helpful for you (perhaps with your therapist) to interrogate what you mean by "attraction" and your expectations around this. Like, if you rarely want to have sex with your girlfriend, and rarely feel aroused, then yeah that's a problem (though I agree, it would be kind to just wait until the test is over). But if by decreased attraction you just mean you're no longer "omg omg let's have sex!" every time you see her- well, that's not exactly a problem, that's life.
I'll end by saying that the pandemic has been hard on a lot of people's sex lives. And career stress can be bad for a libido too. So, if both of you are experiencing a lower libido right now, I'd make a pact to not worry about this until after the test. By then, it will hopefully be safe to go on dates, hang out with friends, and just generally be happier. If you're still feeling a low-attraction for your girlfriend then, then I'd breakup (but don't mention makeup when you do, yeesh)
posted by coffeecat at 5:01 PM on March 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Why don't you start by getting some space? If you are living together I would suggest moving out. School plus exam plus covid plus relationship would cause me emotional confusion and I wouldn't be able to untangle my stresses.
posted by jello at 5:05 PM on March 12, 2021
posted by jello at 5:05 PM on March 12, 2021
So I was ready, based on the title of the question, to say, "Don't stay with someone you aren't attracted to." But it seems like what you're doing is comparing your girlfriend's everyday appearance to models. It is not paradoxical to be attracted to other people, no matter how you feel about your partner! I wonder if you have some unrealistic ideas of what it means to be in a relationship. It doesn't mean you have no attraction to anyone else and you always find your partner astoundingly attractive. I'm not usually one for quoting traditional marriage vows, but the reason people say things like "in sickness and health" is because life isn't a fairytale. You can't expect your girlfriend to always look like she did on your first few dates, when you were both likely spending time taking extra care for your appearance.
I am concerned about a few things: that you've had intrusive thoughts about breaking up for most of the relationship, and that you are so eager to have a big talk with her. Are you looking for a reason or excuse to break up? This sounds life self-sabotage to me.
Do you know many folks in happy, long term relationships? I wonder if it might be good to talk to them about some of these issues, including how they feel about their partner's attractiveness at different times.
But really what I think you should do is this: slow down. You don't need to decide anything or have a big talk or figure it out. It sounds like you are doing good work in therapy and you should just keep doing that for a while.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:14 PM on March 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I am concerned about a few things: that you've had intrusive thoughts about breaking up for most of the relationship, and that you are so eager to have a big talk with her. Are you looking for a reason or excuse to break up? This sounds life self-sabotage to me.
Do you know many folks in happy, long term relationships? I wonder if it might be good to talk to them about some of these issues, including how they feel about their partner's attractiveness at different times.
But really what I think you should do is this: slow down. You don't need to decide anything or have a big talk or figure it out. It sounds like you are doing good work in therapy and you should just keep doing that for a while.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:14 PM on March 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
It sounds like emotionally and mentally you've been through a lot in life and I'm wondering if it is possible that you are using "superficiality" as protective shield against the vulnerability necessary to deepen your relationship with your girlfriend?
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 5:19 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 5:19 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
So your issue, at the moment, is you feel as if you failed your partner because you don't feel 100% attracted to her at all times. Is that correct? And why the thought of breakup? Is it about self inadequacy, that you don't deserve her?
Have you ever asked her, WHY did she stay with you? What does she see in you?
Maybe you are exactly what she deserves. But if you don't ask, you'll never find out.
posted by kschang at 5:54 PM on March 12, 2021
Have you ever asked her, WHY did she stay with you? What does she see in you?
Maybe you are exactly what she deserves. But if you don't ask, you'll never find out.
posted by kschang at 5:54 PM on March 12, 2021
There's also a lustful side of me for model-esque girls.
I am not going to judge you for this, at all. But I will ask you a question. If you had to cover the cost in time and money to make it worthwhile for your girlfriend to strive for a daily model-esque presentation, what do you think you should pay for and how much would it cost?
What I am trying to get at is that the 'shallow' look you like actually consists of layers of time, skills, resources, and product. It's only really shallow when you don't appreciate and compensate the effort that goes into this presentation.
posted by Thella at 6:53 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
I am not going to judge you for this, at all. But I will ask you a question. If you had to cover the cost in time and money to make it worthwhile for your girlfriend to strive for a daily model-esque presentation, what do you think you should pay for and how much would it cost?
What I am trying to get at is that the 'shallow' look you like actually consists of layers of time, skills, resources, and product. It's only really shallow when you don't appreciate and compensate the effort that goes into this presentation.
posted by Thella at 6:53 PM on March 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
I’m reading two totally separate things but you’ve put them together. If you think about these separately, are things clearer?
1) waxing and waning physical attraction, lust for a certain type: TOTALLY NORMAL and by no means a relationship killer (unless you’re a jerk and hold not being a model against a normal woman.) Don’t give up a relationship because you think physical attraction must be a steady thing—that’s not reality. As others have pointed out, if she’s like most people, she experiences this too.
2) frequent, longstanding thoughts about breaking up: maybe you want to break up! That’s okay. You don’t need a big reason. Or maybe this is mental health: and you actually don’t want to break up: great! Maybe explore in therapy how you might recognize an intrusive thought vs your inner voice.
posted by kapers at 7:11 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
1) waxing and waning physical attraction, lust for a certain type: TOTALLY NORMAL and by no means a relationship killer (unless you’re a jerk and hold not being a model against a normal woman.) Don’t give up a relationship because you think physical attraction must be a steady thing—that’s not reality. As others have pointed out, if she’s like most people, she experiences this too.
2) frequent, longstanding thoughts about breaking up: maybe you want to break up! That’s okay. You don’t need a big reason. Or maybe this is mental health: and you actually don’t want to break up: great! Maybe explore in therapy how you might recognize an intrusive thought vs your inner voice.
posted by kapers at 7:11 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
This isn’t about sparking a flame. It’s about addressing the internalized misogyny that makes you feel like your girlfriend isn’t attractive unless she’s wearing makeup. Even models don’t wear makeup all the time. What you want is not real and you need to figure it out before you get married and you’re asking this question about your future wife because she’s got stretch marks and is exhausted and covered in the spit up of your future infant all the time. But cut your girlfriend loose while you work on it because it’s not fair to her. She deserves to feel comfortable in her skin, with or without makeup, and attractive to her partner no matter what.
posted by sparringnarwhal at 7:19 PM on March 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by sparringnarwhal at 7:19 PM on March 12, 2021 [13 favorites]
Seconding thella for subcontext: If your GF has a typical BMI, she's capable of being a "model."
Google models in casual clothing or without makeup. Do it for those in positions of notoreity as well.
Typically production does a significant amount to stylize women before producing their looks as a product. There isn't a "normal" woman. Models are* "normal women."
People are often conditioned to see these figures with an otherness or deity-like polish, it's not always or often not always the case.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:21 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Google models in casual clothing or without makeup. Do it for those in positions of notoreity as well.
Typically production does a significant amount to stylize women before producing their looks as a product. There isn't a "normal" woman. Models are* "normal women."
People are often conditioned to see these figures with an otherness or deity-like polish, it's not always or often not always the case.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:21 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
No, do not talk to her about this until after your exam, if she is generally happy and peaceful in your relationship. Sometimes you're less than 100% honest with partners in order to protect them from some serious and permanent harm, and this is one of those times.
As someone who was broken up with shortly before my finals because someone thought they had to tell me Right Away, which I subsequently bombed, failing all my classes and ultimately causing me to drop out of college, I plead with you to take this advice to heart. It took me years to get back to where I was and I'm still dealing with the harm fallout of that event. I don't usually advise wasting someone's time with a relationship you don't want to be in, but you do want to be in this relationship and you also don't want to hurt her professionally. Reassessing after your own high stress exams is also probably good to see if you even feel the same way.
Also: the advice above about looking at diverse bodies is a very good one. I would also suggest, if you consume pornography, switching your videos/pictures/etc to sex workers with diverse body types, and seeing if that affects the way you view your girlfriend. You may also find some of the videos of models before their makeup and putting on their makeup helpful in deconstructing the expectation that people are 'naturally beautiful' in the particular way you're thinking.
posted by corb at 8:42 PM on March 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
As someone who was broken up with shortly before my finals because someone thought they had to tell me Right Away, which I subsequently bombed, failing all my classes and ultimately causing me to drop out of college, I plead with you to take this advice to heart. It took me years to get back to where I was and I'm still dealing with the harm fallout of that event. I don't usually advise wasting someone's time with a relationship you don't want to be in, but you do want to be in this relationship and you also don't want to hurt her professionally. Reassessing after your own high stress exams is also probably good to see if you even feel the same way.
Also: the advice above about looking at diverse bodies is a very good one. I would also suggest, if you consume pornography, switching your videos/pictures/etc to sex workers with diverse body types, and seeing if that affects the way you view your girlfriend. You may also find some of the videos of models before their makeup and putting on their makeup helpful in deconstructing the expectation that people are 'naturally beautiful' in the particular way you're thinking.
posted by corb at 8:42 PM on March 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the responses, I appreciate each and every one of them. You have all humbled me and given me a lot to think about. I will mark this as resolved.
posted by invictus10 at 11:47 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by invictus10 at 11:47 PM on March 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
WAIT UNTIL AFTER EXAMS TO BREAK UP.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:27 AM on March 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 10:27 AM on March 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm a femme who is used to being called pretty and attractive, hanging out with other pretty and attractive people. (sounds shallow? It's also the truth and I'm quite tired of being told it's a bad thing to acknowledge that. I also am not a thin person.)
I also didn't realize that a few of my peers were models until I saw their Instagrams. Why? Because I'm not in a desperate situation looking for an output and I wasn't fixated looking for a "model look." They looked so different to me that I did not register that they were models at all.
I think you are just starving to find some kind of out from all the pressure you are under -- take a breather. Your girlfriend would fucking cut and run if she knew what you were thinking, so try to alleviate your other sources of stress first.
posted by yueliang at 11:48 AM on March 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I also didn't realize that a few of my peers were models until I saw their Instagrams. Why? Because I'm not in a desperate situation looking for an output and I wasn't fixated looking for a "model look." They looked so different to me that I did not register that they were models at all.
I think you are just starving to find some kind of out from all the pressure you are under -- take a breather. Your girlfriend would fucking cut and run if she knew what you were thinking, so try to alleviate your other sources of stress first.
posted by yueliang at 11:48 AM on March 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
And try to continue working on practicing Radical Acceptance for yourself and your thoughts. It's really crucial so you can stop punishing yourself for what you think.
posted by yueliang at 11:53 AM on March 13, 2021
posted by yueliang at 11:53 AM on March 13, 2021
Hey there OP. You sound like you have A LOT going on on every possible level (as indeed many of us do, and your partner may as well). Based on all you've written I'd argue that discomfort with your girlfriend's looks is a red herring. You're trying to find a concrete, "objective" reason for your unease in the relationship, and--yes, probably AT LEAST partly due to ingrained sexism--your brain has settled on her appearance as the issue. Which, regardless of your decision about the future of the relationship, you should never, ever tell her, because this is your issue and not hers or even both of y'all's. It sounds like, like uncountable millions of people every day, you may be grappling with the possibility that while you love this woman, love isn't always enough to hold an intimate relationship together. Attraction IS about more than just the other person's meatsuit, whether we realize it or not. But it sounds like you either haven't yet examined the wider issues that might be impacting your level of attraction or are maybe afraid to?
Whatever the outcome, I'd strongly encourage you to continue working with your therapist on the topics you've outlined above. Contrary to what cishet dudes are repeatedly told by various media, no person on God's earth will be flawlessly fuckable enough, at all times, for their appearance/its perceived value to other cishet dudes to overcome any and all relationship problems AND your own unhappiness/feelings of inadequacy/whathaveyou. That way lies madness.
posted by TinyChicken at 12:58 PM on March 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
Whatever the outcome, I'd strongly encourage you to continue working with your therapist on the topics you've outlined above. Contrary to what cishet dudes are repeatedly told by various media, no person on God's earth will be flawlessly fuckable enough, at all times, for their appearance/its perceived value to other cishet dudes to overcome any and all relationship problems AND your own unhappiness/feelings of inadequacy/whathaveyou. That way lies madness.
posted by TinyChicken at 12:58 PM on March 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have realized that while she is definitely pretty, she also goes in and out of what are my physical standards in a partner. I think part of this is that I usually never see her in makeup because of 24/7 quarantine.
every woman has a human face, even if she puts makeup on top of it sometimes, and if you don't like the human face under the makeup you are not physically attracted to the person whose face it is. this is going to be a problem with every human woman you try to be with. if you want to be kind to yourself, you can try thinking of this as a fetish, the way some people like their partners to wear elaborate vinyl masks or leather boots to bed because the human body all alone just doesn't do it for them, same as the human face all alone doesn't do it for you. but you must come to accept that nobody, but nobody, no matter how makeup-loving and chill and eager to please she may be, is going to do this for your pleasure all the days and nights of her life. not one. in 1945 you might have had a shot, but even then it wouldn't have been a sure thing.
as far as beauty standards go, your beauty standards demand a "pretty" girlfriend, and you say you have one. all very well. but these other standards causing you trouble are not unfairly high; they are not high at all, although they are demanding; they are strange. you are not wishing she would style or present her physical body in a way you find pleasing, which can be a problem but doesn't need to be. rather, you are wishing she would take a paint set and very literally cover it up. you would rather see her drawing of a face than her actual face.
and I'm sure it's a nice face, the one you like! many people find a made-up face to be lovely. many people find a painting on canvas to be lovely, too, but they don't want to go to bed with it. not literally, not the oils and the canvas. It would not be wrong, per se, if they did want to -- it is not wrong, exactly, that you have figured out that you have as strong or stronger a response to physical cosmetics (or to fashion-model photography?) as to human flesh. but what you do about this and how you either change it or come to terms with it is between you and cosmetics/photography. leave your girlfriend out of it.
if this all sounds absurd and unfair, maybe you are misdiagnosing the problem entirely and seeking desperately to find physical flaws in your partner to explain a non-physical relationship problem. it is normal to feel less attraction to someone when something isn't right but you don't know what. many men speak about their own sexuality as if there is nothing but a vast meaningless void in the gap between their eyeballs and their genitals, even though anyone can see they keep their brains and emotions in between.
you also don't have to maintain a steady cruising-speed libido at all times, and you definitely don't have to pinpoint something not-arousing about her to explain why you are not aroused.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:56 PM on March 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
every woman has a human face, even if she puts makeup on top of it sometimes, and if you don't like the human face under the makeup you are not physically attracted to the person whose face it is. this is going to be a problem with every human woman you try to be with. if you want to be kind to yourself, you can try thinking of this as a fetish, the way some people like their partners to wear elaborate vinyl masks or leather boots to bed because the human body all alone just doesn't do it for them, same as the human face all alone doesn't do it for you. but you must come to accept that nobody, but nobody, no matter how makeup-loving and chill and eager to please she may be, is going to do this for your pleasure all the days and nights of her life. not one. in 1945 you might have had a shot, but even then it wouldn't have been a sure thing.
as far as beauty standards go, your beauty standards demand a "pretty" girlfriend, and you say you have one. all very well. but these other standards causing you trouble are not unfairly high; they are not high at all, although they are demanding; they are strange. you are not wishing she would style or present her physical body in a way you find pleasing, which can be a problem but doesn't need to be. rather, you are wishing she would take a paint set and very literally cover it up. you would rather see her drawing of a face than her actual face.
and I'm sure it's a nice face, the one you like! many people find a made-up face to be lovely. many people find a painting on canvas to be lovely, too, but they don't want to go to bed with it. not literally, not the oils and the canvas. It would not be wrong, per se, if they did want to -- it is not wrong, exactly, that you have figured out that you have as strong or stronger a response to physical cosmetics (or to fashion-model photography?) as to human flesh. but what you do about this and how you either change it or come to terms with it is between you and cosmetics/photography. leave your girlfriend out of it.
if this all sounds absurd and unfair, maybe you are misdiagnosing the problem entirely and seeking desperately to find physical flaws in your partner to explain a non-physical relationship problem. it is normal to feel less attraction to someone when something isn't right but you don't know what. many men speak about their own sexuality as if there is nothing but a vast meaningless void in the gap between their eyeballs and their genitals, even though anyone can see they keep their brains and emotions in between.
you also don't have to maintain a steady cruising-speed libido at all times, and you definitely don't have to pinpoint something not-arousing about her to explain why you are not aroused.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:56 PM on March 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
Break up with her if you have doubts about how attractive she is 1.5 years in. She deserves someone who is 100% all in for her, and not someone who has to work with a therapist to feel attracted to her.
I find it sad, tragic in fact, that some people don't seem to be able to to achieve romantic love without finding their partner hot, but I also acknowledge that some people really can't form those romantic ties without the attraction piece. It's not something we can help you reason your way out of by telling you to appreciate her character or whatever.
But contrary to what some people said above, I would definitely wait until after the exam if you have any suspicions she would be heartbroken over this. I can't imagine dealing with a breakup and exam stress during a pandemic.
posted by shaademaan at 3:39 AM on March 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
I find it sad, tragic in fact, that some people don't seem to be able to to achieve romantic love without finding their partner hot, but I also acknowledge that some people really can't form those romantic ties without the attraction piece. It's not something we can help you reason your way out of by telling you to appreciate her character or whatever.
But contrary to what some people said above, I would definitely wait until after the exam if you have any suspicions she would be heartbroken over this. I can't imagine dealing with a breakup and exam stress during a pandemic.
posted by shaademaan at 3:39 AM on March 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ok, here is some experience from someone who sounds a lot like you.
Your mental illnesses are a red herring. Your feelings towards your girlfriend have zero to do with your childhood traumas and everything to do with patriarchy and your concept of who you are "as a man". It's a tangled mess, because your dad presumably taught you that your worth depended on being a man, so when you feel not-manly, your traumas show up and kick your ass. However, you will not heal this issue with your girlfriend by dealing with your childhood traumas which are about how you relate to other men. You will heal them by changing the way you relate to women.
You will repeat this pattern with every woman you date. you can break up if you want, but if you're in a partnership with someone you see yourself with for the long term and you think you have something to offer her, you might as well see if you can get over this WHILE YOU SUPPORT HER in the things that matter to her. Like just put heattbreak and your mental illness and your questions about the relationship on the back burner for a while and show up for her with her exam and her parents, be her rock for a while since it sounds like she needs it, and like.... do this every day and boom, that's love, turns out you love her, no need to listen to the doubts.
Like really what is a relationship for? It's to support someone else and help them be the best person they can be. Do you want to do that for your girldfiend? Then you can do it, you don't need to care if she is attractive enough or whatever. You probably have some idea that a relationship is like a movie where you play a role and you're supposed to perform something and you get some award if you do it right -- that's bullshit patriarchy conditoining, you can just ignore it.
Your mind is compartmentalized, you are running the masculinity program and you can sense something is wrong, but you also feel like you have to do it, like you have no choice. The part of you that feels like a piece of shit is correct. That's your conscience and it's objecting to something inhumane, which is using and objectifying others. The part of you that feels like now that you've unconvered this you have to act on it, that's your programming and conditioning, which teaches you that if you don't live up to manly ideals you will be obliterated. You can ignore that part, or actually maybe get angry at it for telling you to hurt your girlfiend and wreck your relatoinship. Acting on it is how you hurt your girlfiend. Patriarchy wants you to hurt your girlfriend because patriarchy is about the subjugation of women. It wants you to tell your girlfriend that she has to measure up to a standard or else you will leave. It wants her to feel on edge that she has to please you and that she can't count on you unconfditionally. It wants her to feel that she can't expect a full partnership with soeone who is all in. If you tell her "I am with you conditionally" you are transmitting patriarchy's message that she is not allowed to want an unconditional partner. The thoughts are harmless, they mean nothing. It's when you transmit them to your girlfriend that they become harmful and important. You MUST NOT speak these thoughts to her unless you disown them. e.g. "I'm noticing all kinds of strange thoughts about how I'm supposed to care about whether you wear makeup, which is odd because I totally don't care about that".
I do NOT trust male therapists to properly diagnose misogyny in their male patients. In fact, I think therapy tends to REINFORCE misogyny because it tells men, falsely, that their priority needs to be their emotions and trauma, when it actually needs to be recognizing their partner's humanity. Myself, my brother, and my father all became more selfish and more nasty towards our female partners after being in therapy. Now I see your psychiatrist is "helping" you to the point where you want to tell your girlfriend that you find her unattractive without makeup. Um, excuse me?? Your psychiatrist can get fucked. You can sense something's wrong here, right? Why is he not sticking up for your partner's well being?
Do you watch porn? Stop, cold turkey stop, do whatever it takes to stop. Porn is where you get the idea that there are physical standards that a woman needs to measure up to. That and most media depictions of women. But porn is super insidious, it hacks your brain's reward systems directly, it's really messed up. You must quit it now and forever.
Your idea of attractiveness is actually the attention you perceive others giving you becaues they approve of your partner, it's narcissistic. When it wanes, it's probably because she's not wearing the feminine costume well enough. The person you see at that point is who she really is -- just a person, no golden glow. Forget what you think of as attractiveness, the whole concept is poisined. There's no such thing as an "attractive" person in the abstract ,only one person being attracted to another. Therefore there is no such thing as a standard of attractiveness one could be measured against, only whehter one is attracted to another. Does your body enjoy being next to hers? Do you enjoy the warmth you feel together? Then you're attracted to her. Ignore the doubts, it's programming, it's not your body therefore it's not you.
how is your relationship with your mother? how did/does your father treat her? if your mother was nasty to you it might have been transmitted pressure that your father was putting on her. were her contributions to the household recognized, or taken for granted? do you feel resentful towards her, even though she cared for you and fed you and checked up on you? just wondering. try calling her and thanking her for this and talking to her more. the more you humanize her, the more you'll humanize all women.
there is now a cloud that I can't just ignore anymore, you can, and should
Also. you're leeching off your partner. you're in a messed up state and she's stabilizing you. it's very common in men, so don't be ashamed, but recognize the pattern and change it -- you haven't said a word about her except what she does for you. what do you do for her? look at that, it's way more important than your mental illness. if you focus on your brokenness as your priorty, you will be a black hole forever. like yeah, deal with it, but imagine you're a mom and you've got kids to feed. you feed the kids first and you focus on yourself when you can. you hold yourself together for the important stuff.
posted by PercussivePaul at 9:29 PM on March 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
Your mental illnesses are a red herring. Your feelings towards your girlfriend have zero to do with your childhood traumas and everything to do with patriarchy and your concept of who you are "as a man". It's a tangled mess, because your dad presumably taught you that your worth depended on being a man, so when you feel not-manly, your traumas show up and kick your ass. However, you will not heal this issue with your girlfriend by dealing with your childhood traumas which are about how you relate to other men. You will heal them by changing the way you relate to women.
You will repeat this pattern with every woman you date. you can break up if you want, but if you're in a partnership with someone you see yourself with for the long term and you think you have something to offer her, you might as well see if you can get over this WHILE YOU SUPPORT HER in the things that matter to her. Like just put heattbreak and your mental illness and your questions about the relationship on the back burner for a while and show up for her with her exam and her parents, be her rock for a while since it sounds like she needs it, and like.... do this every day and boom, that's love, turns out you love her, no need to listen to the doubts.
Like really what is a relationship for? It's to support someone else and help them be the best person they can be. Do you want to do that for your girldfiend? Then you can do it, you don't need to care if she is attractive enough or whatever. You probably have some idea that a relationship is like a movie where you play a role and you're supposed to perform something and you get some award if you do it right -- that's bullshit patriarchy conditoining, you can just ignore it.
Your mind is compartmentalized, you are running the masculinity program and you can sense something is wrong, but you also feel like you have to do it, like you have no choice. The part of you that feels like a piece of shit is correct. That's your conscience and it's objecting to something inhumane, which is using and objectifying others. The part of you that feels like now that you've unconvered this you have to act on it, that's your programming and conditioning, which teaches you that if you don't live up to manly ideals you will be obliterated. You can ignore that part, or actually maybe get angry at it for telling you to hurt your girlfiend and wreck your relatoinship. Acting on it is how you hurt your girlfiend. Patriarchy wants you to hurt your girlfriend because patriarchy is about the subjugation of women. It wants you to tell your girlfriend that she has to measure up to a standard or else you will leave. It wants her to feel on edge that she has to please you and that she can't count on you unconfditionally. It wants her to feel that she can't expect a full partnership with soeone who is all in. If you tell her "I am with you conditionally" you are transmitting patriarchy's message that she is not allowed to want an unconditional partner. The thoughts are harmless, they mean nothing. It's when you transmit them to your girlfriend that they become harmful and important. You MUST NOT speak these thoughts to her unless you disown them. e.g. "I'm noticing all kinds of strange thoughts about how I'm supposed to care about whether you wear makeup, which is odd because I totally don't care about that".
I do NOT trust male therapists to properly diagnose misogyny in their male patients. In fact, I think therapy tends to REINFORCE misogyny because it tells men, falsely, that their priority needs to be their emotions and trauma, when it actually needs to be recognizing their partner's humanity. Myself, my brother, and my father all became more selfish and more nasty towards our female partners after being in therapy. Now I see your psychiatrist is "helping" you to the point where you want to tell your girlfriend that you find her unattractive without makeup. Um, excuse me?? Your psychiatrist can get fucked. You can sense something's wrong here, right? Why is he not sticking up for your partner's well being?
Do you watch porn? Stop, cold turkey stop, do whatever it takes to stop. Porn is where you get the idea that there are physical standards that a woman needs to measure up to. That and most media depictions of women. But porn is super insidious, it hacks your brain's reward systems directly, it's really messed up. You must quit it now and forever.
Your idea of attractiveness is actually the attention you perceive others giving you becaues they approve of your partner, it's narcissistic. When it wanes, it's probably because she's not wearing the feminine costume well enough. The person you see at that point is who she really is -- just a person, no golden glow. Forget what you think of as attractiveness, the whole concept is poisined. There's no such thing as an "attractive" person in the abstract ,only one person being attracted to another. Therefore there is no such thing as a standard of attractiveness one could be measured against, only whehter one is attracted to another. Does your body enjoy being next to hers? Do you enjoy the warmth you feel together? Then you're attracted to her. Ignore the doubts, it's programming, it's not your body therefore it's not you.
how is your relationship with your mother? how did/does your father treat her? if your mother was nasty to you it might have been transmitted pressure that your father was putting on her. were her contributions to the household recognized, or taken for granted? do you feel resentful towards her, even though she cared for you and fed you and checked up on you? just wondering. try calling her and thanking her for this and talking to her more. the more you humanize her, the more you'll humanize all women.
there is now a cloud that I can't just ignore anymore, you can, and should
Also. you're leeching off your partner. you're in a messed up state and she's stabilizing you. it's very common in men, so don't be ashamed, but recognize the pattern and change it -- you haven't said a word about her except what she does for you. what do you do for her? look at that, it's way more important than your mental illness. if you focus on your brokenness as your priorty, you will be a black hole forever. like yeah, deal with it, but imagine you're a mom and you've got kids to feed. you feed the kids first and you focus on yourself when you can. you hold yourself together for the important stuff.
posted by PercussivePaul at 9:29 PM on March 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
If your GF has a typical BMI, she's capable of being a "model."
Just cause this comment keeps popping up at the top of my 10 most recent: A person doesn't need to have a "typical" (what does that even mean? The average BMI for women is above the median by 4+ points) BMI to be a model. I don't know how much fashion instagram or other media you follow, but "inclusive sizing" is becoming the norm and models come in all shapes and sizes. So even this size-related rubric about "being a model" is pretty useless. If you mean "thin" or "tall" or "elegant" or "dramatic looking" or whatever, just say it, use your words.
posted by Miko at 8:10 PM on March 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just cause this comment keeps popping up at the top of my 10 most recent: A person doesn't need to have a "typical" (what does that even mean? The average BMI for women is above the median by 4+ points) BMI to be a model. I don't know how much fashion instagram or other media you follow, but "inclusive sizing" is becoming the norm and models come in all shapes and sizes. So even this size-related rubric about "being a model" is pretty useless. If you mean "thin" or "tall" or "elegant" or "dramatic looking" or whatever, just say it, use your words.
posted by Miko at 8:10 PM on March 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 2:22 PM on March 12, 2021 [13 favorites]