Maskless patients in hospital infusion clinic--complain?
March 5, 2021 8:50 AM Subscribe
Yesterday I went for an IV iron infusion at the hospital infusion clinic. This setting is where immune-compromised people spend hours in close quarters getting chemo. It's a single room with chairs for 6-8 patients. During the treatment I was seated directly across from another patient approx. 8' away who was wearing her mask around her chin.
I quietly (so the other woman wouldn't hear me, because I didn't yet know what was going on) asked my nurse "Are you not requiring patients to wear masks?" and she said "Oh, we are but not if they're eating or drinking." I watched and this woman was just sitting there reading with an untouched water bottle on her table. Later the nurse asked me if I needed anything and I said quietly "No but it seems crazy not to requires masks in a healthcare setting" and she very firmly said "WE DO, but not when they're eating or drinking." Then she offered to draw the curtain around my area, which obviously is pointless but I said sure, go ahead. The whole time prior to that, the other woman was not eating or drinking.
There were a number of other problems, all of which are to be expected at at one time or another, but were a bit ridiculous all in the same visit--a blown vein, a repeatedly malfunctioning IV pump requiring three people to fix, all standing inches from me, and just now they called to say they forgot to do my labs so can I come back in. So that may be skewing my perspective.
I have to go back next week for another infusion and am wondering how to handle this. I believe the hospital has a patient satisfaction person and I could call to complain but the clinic will know it was me. Do I care? What exactly do I say?
I quietly (so the other woman wouldn't hear me, because I didn't yet know what was going on) asked my nurse "Are you not requiring patients to wear masks?" and she said "Oh, we are but not if they're eating or drinking." I watched and this woman was just sitting there reading with an untouched water bottle on her table. Later the nurse asked me if I needed anything and I said quietly "No but it seems crazy not to requires masks in a healthcare setting" and she very firmly said "WE DO, but not when they're eating or drinking." Then she offered to draw the curtain around my area, which obviously is pointless but I said sure, go ahead. The whole time prior to that, the other woman was not eating or drinking.
There were a number of other problems, all of which are to be expected at at one time or another, but were a bit ridiculous all in the same visit--a blown vein, a repeatedly malfunctioning IV pump requiring three people to fix, all standing inches from me, and just now they called to say they forgot to do my labs so can I come back in. So that may be skewing my perspective.
I have to go back next week for another infusion and am wondering how to handle this. I believe the hospital has a patient satisfaction person and I could call to complain but the clinic will know it was me. Do I care? What exactly do I say?
I don't know what kind of answers you're going to get but I would have hit the @$%!% ceiling. I would also have told the woman to put her mask on, but I would have been FURIOUS at having been forced into the position of enforcer. [edit - yes, if having a water bottle with you makes you exempt from a mask requirement, then the policy is the problem, and it's also probably a more politic way to make the complaint, if you're going to make it.]
And they FORGOT TO DO YOUR LABS jfc what are they even running there? It sounds like an episode of Punk'd. If there's anywhere else to do the treatment, go elsewhere.
Re complaining, this is tricky if you have no choice but to go back there. I would be afraid of retaliation, to be honest. You can call and ask what the staffing looks like and see if it's always the same people there or if there's a way to be scheduled at a different shift, maybe?
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:05 AM on March 5, 2021 [8 favorites]
And they FORGOT TO DO YOUR LABS jfc what are they even running there? It sounds like an episode of Punk'd. If there's anywhere else to do the treatment, go elsewhere.
Re complaining, this is tricky if you have no choice but to go back there. I would be afraid of retaliation, to be honest. You can call and ask what the staffing looks like and see if it's always the same people there or if there's a way to be scheduled at a different shift, maybe?
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:05 AM on March 5, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yes, complain. That's unacceptable, especially in a healthcare facility where people may already have reduced immune systems.
posted by slkinsey at 9:08 AM on March 5, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 9:08 AM on March 5, 2021 [9 favorites]
Definitely complain.
posted by ellieBOA at 9:11 AM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 9:11 AM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't know what the ramifications are if you complain, but I do know that if you do not point this out to someone, it will not ever change. If you want change, be the catalyst for that change.
posted by AugustWest at 9:13 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 9:13 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
I am *not* immunocompromised, and I'm conflict-avoidant, and still, I'd complain, even if it was a foot doctor.
Absolutely not OK policy at this point.
posted by notsnot at 9:17 AM on March 5, 2021 [20 favorites]
Absolutely not OK policy at this point.
posted by notsnot at 9:17 AM on March 5, 2021 [20 favorites]
I would complain to the manager of the unit, and maybe their manager. This is very poor care, you asked about it and your concern was blown off. I'm utterly appalled at this. also, hope you're feeling better.
posted by theora55 at 9:21 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:21 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yes, I would absolutely complain, this is incredibly irresponsible. You might refer to this study: Anemia is associated with severe coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection.
posted by KatlaDragon at 9:22 AM on March 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by KatlaDragon at 9:22 AM on March 5, 2021 [6 favorites]
another patient approx. 8' away who was wearing her mask around her chin
Certainly complain, but also be explicit about how wearing a mask that doesn't cover your nose is not "wearing a mask". There's no reason to beat around the bush here.
posted by trig at 9:23 AM on March 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
Certainly complain, but also be explicit about how wearing a mask that doesn't cover your nose is not "wearing a mask". There's no reason to beat around the bush here.
posted by trig at 9:23 AM on March 5, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'm a frequent flyer for infusions. It's definitely worth escalating.
The blown vein, I know, it's awful, but it happens sometimes. The malfunctioning IV pump happens as well, and it's equally frustrating for patients and staff, and it's kind of the luck of the draw. But the mask thing is important, and it's worth telling someone. Forgetting a blood draw unfortunately happens sometimes, too, but not typically, and in combination with the mask thing (and having to re-enter a hospital and risk additional exposure), it's important to mention.
In dialysis and oncology infusion settings I've used during covid, food and drink were forbidden and masks were STRICTLY enforced. But at the standard hospital infusion center (at my hospital this was separate from oncology), they were not, and I'm always shocked by the nurses asking people how they take their coffee and carrying over bottles of juice. It's just a different world there. When I go in, I just typically tell them that as a transplant patient I'm immuno-suppressed and being really REALLY careful for obvious reasons, can I be seated away from the others? They usually have me in my own little bay, and I have very little idea of what is going on beyond my view. (Late shifts and weekends are like a ghost town, so you might prefer to go at those times -- I certainly felt better doing so.)
In your place I'd say something like, "I'm immuno-compromised and obviously I'm being as careful as possible because I'm more susceptible to covid. I understand it's policy to allow people to eat and drink in the clinic, but at least one patient was unmasked the whole time I was there. What is the best way to address this for patients like me?" And then stop talking. Let them come up with a solution.
In your place, I'd also say, "While I have you, I wanted to mention three other things that happened." Lead with the forgotten blood draw.
You sound like you may be concerned about reprisal, but don't be. These channels are available for a reason. You're always going to be your own best advocate, and this is the best way to support your interests. Feel free to memail me if I can help!
posted by mochapickle at 9:29 AM on March 5, 2021 [17 favorites]
The blown vein, I know, it's awful, but it happens sometimes. The malfunctioning IV pump happens as well, and it's equally frustrating for patients and staff, and it's kind of the luck of the draw. But the mask thing is important, and it's worth telling someone. Forgetting a blood draw unfortunately happens sometimes, too, but not typically, and in combination with the mask thing (and having to re-enter a hospital and risk additional exposure), it's important to mention.
In dialysis and oncology infusion settings I've used during covid, food and drink were forbidden and masks were STRICTLY enforced. But at the standard hospital infusion center (at my hospital this was separate from oncology), they were not, and I'm always shocked by the nurses asking people how they take their coffee and carrying over bottles of juice. It's just a different world there. When I go in, I just typically tell them that as a transplant patient I'm immuno-suppressed and being really REALLY careful for obvious reasons, can I be seated away from the others? They usually have me in my own little bay, and I have very little idea of what is going on beyond my view. (Late shifts and weekends are like a ghost town, so you might prefer to go at those times -- I certainly felt better doing so.)
In your place I'd say something like, "I'm immuno-compromised and obviously I'm being as careful as possible because I'm more susceptible to covid. I understand it's policy to allow people to eat and drink in the clinic, but at least one patient was unmasked the whole time I was there. What is the best way to address this for patients like me?" And then stop talking. Let them come up with a solution.
In your place, I'd also say, "While I have you, I wanted to mention three other things that happened." Lead with the forgotten blood draw.
You sound like you may be concerned about reprisal, but don't be. These channels are available for a reason. You're always going to be your own best advocate, and this is the best way to support your interests. Feel free to memail me if I can help!
posted by mochapickle at 9:29 AM on March 5, 2021 [17 favorites]
Response by poster: For those mentioning retaliation, what might that look like?
posted by HotToddy at 9:30 AM on March 5, 2021
posted by HotToddy at 9:30 AM on March 5, 2021
Response by poster: Also, I just called the hospital in the next town over and they have separate rooms for each patient, so maybe it would be easier just to transfer the order over there?
posted by HotToddy at 9:32 AM on March 5, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 9:32 AM on March 5, 2021 [23 favorites]
Absolutely. I would do that.
posted by mochapickle at 9:33 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 9:33 AM on March 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
If you can transfer, let your former transfusion place know that you’re doing so because of masking issues.
This will help patients at the former transfusion place without you needing to fear reprisals.
posted by sciencegeek at 9:36 AM on March 5, 2021 [29 favorites]
This will help patients at the former transfusion place without you needing to fear reprisals.
posted by sciencegeek at 9:36 AM on March 5, 2021 [29 favorites]
HotToddy, I was the one who said that, and I don't know. I'm just a very mistrustful person, and there are so many ways that someone in that setting could get back at you if they felt you'd tattled on them, yet maintain plausible deniability -- from a poorly done needle insertion to forgetting to send your files, whatever. Certainly calling to complain about the policy itself seems like the better way to go.
I'm glad to hear there's a hospital near you with separate rooms, in any case.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:55 AM on March 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm glad to hear there's a hospital near you with separate rooms, in any case.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:55 AM on March 5, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think when the nurse came over the second time, I might have said, "I know patients are not required to wear a mask while eating or drinking but would you please ask that patient to wear her mask whenever she not actually drinking from her water bottle?"
The idea is to be both reasonable and clear in what I am asking from the nurse. If she still refuses, then you know not expect any help from her.
Also, I come from a very polite ask culture family - I wouldn't pursue it any further in the moment that what I said above but I do have a certain confidence in asking for what seems reasonable to me.
And yes, totally transfer to the other hospital - you shouldn't have to wonder and worry about this stuff.
posted by metahawk at 12:09 PM on March 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
The idea is to be both reasonable and clear in what I am asking from the nurse. If she still refuses, then you know not expect any help from her.
Also, I come from a very polite ask culture family - I wouldn't pursue it any further in the moment that what I said above but I do have a certain confidence in asking for what seems reasonable to me.
And yes, totally transfer to the other hospital - you shouldn't have to wonder and worry about this stuff.
posted by metahawk at 12:09 PM on March 5, 2021 [2 favorites]
It’s one thing to say, “you can briefly remove your mask to take a sip of water as needed,” and quite another to shrug off a patient just not wearing their mask because they have a water bottle near them. Definitely feel free to complain. There should be a clear, enforced policy of mask wearing with a very limited, strictly monitored option to remove the mask for hydrating. I mean Jesus. This is literally one of the most high risk situations I can imagine.
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:51 PM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:51 PM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]
(Frankly, I’m not even sure drinking water as needed would be reasonable, and maybe they should be giving IV fluids instead if a patient needs water during their infusion for some reason—but I don’t know whether that’s an option.)
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:55 PM on March 5, 2021
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:55 PM on March 5, 2021
Please also tell the doctor who referred you to that infusion center. I would be livid if that happened to one of my patients. Like, I would be on the phone to the medical director of that place so I could tell them in no uncertain terms why I'm reporting them to the local medical board.
posted by basalganglia at 2:53 PM on March 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by basalganglia at 2:53 PM on March 5, 2021 [12 favorites]
Heck, I'm not even in a high risk group, but if I have to drink around people, I either push a straw through from under my mask (I have a special mask that isn't easily taken off), or I inhale before I take off one side, have a quick gulp of water or whatever drink, then put the mask back on before I exhale. I'm not even a very coordinated person, but after a whole year of this, it's really not that hard.
If I were you, I'd transfer to the other place and then complain to the previous one. I hope most health care professionals would be professional enough not to deliberately hurt someone, but I know at least one former nurse who said she would use the biggest needle on people she disliked, so...
posted by LoonyLovegood at 12:47 AM on March 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
If I were you, I'd transfer to the other place and then complain to the previous one. I hope most health care professionals would be professional enough not to deliberately hurt someone, but I know at least one former nurse who said she would use the biggest needle on people she disliked, so...
posted by LoonyLovegood at 12:47 AM on March 6, 2021 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would be fine with them knowing it was me. I’m totally willing to have people think I’m an asshole when I’m protecting my health. I would make it clear that you’re not complaining about the nurse, who was following their policy, but the policy itself.
posted by FencingGal at 9:02 AM on March 5, 2021 [45 favorites]