Maverick job - may need attire change
March 4, 2021 6:19 AM Subscribe
I'm applying for a govt. job. They need a different thinker. It's the vaguest advert I've seen, looks more or less written for me. Position needs social separation but in a team enviro.; I'll be very different to what's there now, I'm more working class (among other diffs), these folk are not. I need to maintain that difference - some separation is not difficult as I'm not social - most people don't know that; I present as norm (and have done for 20+ years), I can't maintain a different act/manner for long, but I can look different.
I'm Caucasian, male, 1.92m/6'3", solid, short beard (some kind of beard is essential), late 50's, skinhead cut (could be changed), and a serious mien. Women warm to me, some guys (mainly jocks) find me threatening. I appear confident and unflappable.
Right now I'm a slacks, tidy check shirts and workish footwear, and a Western hat if it's hot - this new job is an office enviro, tie's, suits, all that. There's acceptance of extreme difference though. I've never thought clothes, things important, but here I need something. A friend (with dreads) said it was apparent I wore my dreads on the inside.
What, if anything could I change? Have any of you done this? I have a friend who wears a cowboy hat in a professional environ, plus diff. colours to get separation, and others who do other things, but IDK what would work for me.
I'm Caucasian, male, 1.92m/6'3", solid, short beard (some kind of beard is essential), late 50's, skinhead cut (could be changed), and a serious mien. Women warm to me, some guys (mainly jocks) find me threatening. I appear confident and unflappable.
Right now I'm a slacks, tidy check shirts and workish footwear, and a Western hat if it's hot - this new job is an office enviro, tie's, suits, all that. There's acceptance of extreme difference though. I've never thought clothes, things important, but here I need something. A friend (with dreads) said it was apparent I wore my dreads on the inside.
What, if anything could I change? Have any of you done this? I have a friend who wears a cowboy hat in a professional environ, plus diff. colours to get separation, and others who do other things, but IDK what would work for me.
I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused as to what your question is. I am basing my answer on what I THINK is your question, which sounds like "these people have a corporate dress code and I do not feel comfortable like that, so how much can I push that envelope".
And really, that's something you would only be able to tell after looking at the company dress code. If they say they allow for "business casual", then what you wear right now is already spot-on. At most I would add a suit jacket and a few ties into the mix for when you need to be in "corporate drag". And don't overlook the ability to let the "corporate drag" bits be flamboyant. Like, instead of a plain tie, get one with little cacti on it or something.
It's possible that the people you've seen so far have only been in corporate attire because you've been dealing with more forward-facing people who have to dress up. I'm also in an office environment, but it's only the people with public roles who dress like that, and only when they have outside guests or clients coming in; otherwise people wear jeans and t-shirts, and one guy even wears plastic flip-flops in summer. I even got the green light to wear yoga pants twice a week (I am getting over a broken knee and that lets me slip out to physical therapy during lunch more easily).
You also have the natural advantage right now of everyone doing everything on video conference; you could get a cheap suit jacket and a tie and then just throw those on during video calls, and once the call is over then take them off and wear whatever you want. I worked from home a lot when I first broke my knee, and I totally did a couple work zoom calls in pajamas; I just went for something that was more restrained (the striped pajama shirt instead of the one with big donuts on it) and threw a dressy cardigan sweater over it, and made sure I didn't stand up during the meeting. (Not difficult as I had a broken knee, but you know what I mean.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
And really, that's something you would only be able to tell after looking at the company dress code. If they say they allow for "business casual", then what you wear right now is already spot-on. At most I would add a suit jacket and a few ties into the mix for when you need to be in "corporate drag". And don't overlook the ability to let the "corporate drag" bits be flamboyant. Like, instead of a plain tie, get one with little cacti on it or something.
It's possible that the people you've seen so far have only been in corporate attire because you've been dealing with more forward-facing people who have to dress up. I'm also in an office environment, but it's only the people with public roles who dress like that, and only when they have outside guests or clients coming in; otherwise people wear jeans and t-shirts, and one guy even wears plastic flip-flops in summer. I even got the green light to wear yoga pants twice a week (I am getting over a broken knee and that lets me slip out to physical therapy during lunch more easily).
You also have the natural advantage right now of everyone doing everything on video conference; you could get a cheap suit jacket and a tie and then just throw those on during video calls, and once the call is over then take them off and wear whatever you want. I worked from home a lot when I first broke my knee, and I totally did a couple work zoom calls in pajamas; I just went for something that was more restrained (the striped pajama shirt instead of the one with big donuts on it) and threw a dressy cardigan sweater over it, and made sure I didn't stand up during the meeting. (Not difficult as I had a broken knee, but you know what I mean.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Before I read your last paragraph, I was thinking go all Texas: cowboy hat, flannel shirt, bolo tie, dark denim, dark boots.
posted by kschang at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by kschang at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
The easiest thing is to throw a blazer over your "slacks, tidy check shirts and workish footwear", which is already pretty conservative and fitting-in. Dark blue is the conservative choice and matches nearly anything. And when you're sitting at your desk or doing whatever, you can take it off and hang it up.
I'm not really up on the current trends in neckwear, but back in the day it used to be a thing to wear "kooky" ties to signal nonconformity. Jerry Garcia ties were big for a while among a certain group. My dad had a lot of cartoon ties, like Looney Tunes. I would imagine there are more ties than ever, so you should be able to find something that fits who you are.
I would also not plan too much ahead until you actually get to meet people. I work for an insurance company, and during onboarding HR makes a big point of emphasizing the dress code, which is heavy on suits and collared shirts and dress shoes (and really really picky for women). But my job is in the IT department, which is... less observant. I was going to say that I don't think I've ever seen my boss in a collared shirt, but that's not true because I've seen him wearing an unbuttoned flannel over a t-shirt. Since we generally don't interact with clients or the general public, they're looser about the dress code, even more so with everyone working from home. Slacks, tidy check shirts and workish footwear would be pretty dressy in our department, even though the larger company is suits.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:59 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not really up on the current trends in neckwear, but back in the day it used to be a thing to wear "kooky" ties to signal nonconformity. Jerry Garcia ties were big for a while among a certain group. My dad had a lot of cartoon ties, like Looney Tunes. I would imagine there are more ties than ever, so you should be able to find something that fits who you are.
I would also not plan too much ahead until you actually get to meet people. I work for an insurance company, and during onboarding HR makes a big point of emphasizing the dress code, which is heavy on suits and collared shirts and dress shoes (and really really picky for women). But my job is in the IT department, which is... less observant. I was going to say that I don't think I've ever seen my boss in a collared shirt, but that's not true because I've seen him wearing an unbuttoned flannel over a t-shirt. Since we generally don't interact with clients or the general public, they're looser about the dress code, even more so with everyone working from home. Slacks, tidy check shirts and workish footwear would be pretty dressy in our department, even though the larger company is suits.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:59 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you need to present yourself as separate from the crowd and look like an independent thinker for whatever reason, wear anything you want but always top it off with a little Black Lives Matter pin. You don't need to be showy about it, just wear it every day.
I've been wearing a BLM pin in public daily for 4+ years and let me tell you--people rarely say anything but absolutely everyone notices. 3 months ago I got an unusual, quite personal-to-her question from a coworker and she said something like "I knew it would be safe to ask you because I saw you wearing the BLM button and knew you would be thoughtful about this." She met me one time, two years ago. It will absolutely set you apart.
...And as a bonus it wards off other white people coming to you with their "well intentioned" racism (coworker who confided in me November 10 2016 that "it really was time for a change" I am looking at you).
posted by phunniemee at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
I've been wearing a BLM pin in public daily for 4+ years and let me tell you--people rarely say anything but absolutely everyone notices. 3 months ago I got an unusual, quite personal-to-her question from a coworker and she said something like "I knew it would be safe to ask you because I saw you wearing the BLM button and knew you would be thoughtful about this." She met me one time, two years ago. It will absolutely set you apart.
...And as a bonus it wards off other white people coming to you with their "well intentioned" racism (coworker who confided in me November 10 2016 that "it really was time for a change" I am looking at you).
posted by phunniemee at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
Red and black checked flannel shirts, Canadian hockey fan style, if that jives with your personal style.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:23 AM on March 4, 2021
posted by heatherlogan at 7:23 AM on March 4, 2021
Definitely a BLM pin or hat etc for all the reasons phunniemee stated.
As a male, anything that softens or feminizes your look will make you stand out from the rest of the dudes. Jewelry (not your classic I AM A MAN jewelry like big hefty ugly pinkie rings or culturally appropriative faux-turquoise bolo ties but more like a dangly earring or two or a dainty chain or bracelet) is a good way to do this. You can also wear shirts in brighter colors and "wilder" patterns instead of your tidy checks.
I think the most important thing is to think about clothes as important and as useful tools for expression (it sounds like you're starting to realize that's what they can be, and that's great!) and wear things that you feel express your inner you.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
As a male, anything that softens or feminizes your look will make you stand out from the rest of the dudes. Jewelry (not your classic I AM A MAN jewelry like big hefty ugly pinkie rings or culturally appropriative faux-turquoise bolo ties but more like a dangly earring or two or a dainty chain or bracelet) is a good way to do this. You can also wear shirts in brighter colors and "wilder" patterns instead of your tidy checks.
I think the most important thing is to think about clothes as important and as useful tools for expression (it sounds like you're starting to realize that's what they can be, and that's great!) and wear things that you feel express your inner you.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One deleted; quick note I think based on tag-spelling the poster may not be in the USA so that's worth taking into account in answers.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 4, 2021
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:05 AM on March 4, 2021
So if I'm reading this right, you want a vibe that is distinct from the suit-and-tie and also codes a little bit non-bro/working-class?
Where you're from matters, but I am from Texas and spent the first 20 years of my career there - mostly in IT services/software, but I've been watching CEOs and salesguys code-switch based on customer since the dotcom boom. A style I think of as Good Ol Boy Formal is slacks (khaki chinos on Fridays and for ag/manufacturing/warehouse visits unless the customer tells you to wear jeans; navy or charcoal most of the rest of the time), dress shirt plain or techbro plaid (for software/tech customers mostly), and blazer or sportcoat, no tie, no visible undershirt. Customers who dressed similarly might wear high-end pressed jeans if they were rich or hip, and extremely expensive shitty-looking jeans if they were young rich and hip.
There is a whole secret language of belt buckles, but I don't speak that one.
I think if you went with a slightly different style of jacket to the norm plus one other differential, that would go a long way. Footwear can be a statement, you will have to decide for yourself what you could pull off - could you be Expensive Sneaker Guy? Cowboy/Hiking Boot Guy? A classic safety work shoe - I know those tick a subtle box in parts of the US and suspect they would in Canada and the UK as well. I've known a couple of guys whose Thing was entire wardrobes of gleamingly clean Converse or Vans, but that is certainly a bold choice and quite a bit of upkeep. Pastel shirts are definitely another way a lot of men go (I see it a lot in my peers as they hit middle age and realize they can't stand to put on another blue or gray shirt in their lives - I don't know if that means pastel button-down shirts are too terribly genx-coded?).
posted by Lyn Never at 9:23 AM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Where you're from matters, but I am from Texas and spent the first 20 years of my career there - mostly in IT services/software, but I've been watching CEOs and salesguys code-switch based on customer since the dotcom boom. A style I think of as Good Ol Boy Formal is slacks (khaki chinos on Fridays and for ag/manufacturing/warehouse visits unless the customer tells you to wear jeans; navy or charcoal most of the rest of the time), dress shirt plain or techbro plaid (for software/tech customers mostly), and blazer or sportcoat, no tie, no visible undershirt. Customers who dressed similarly might wear high-end pressed jeans if they were rich or hip, and extremely expensive shitty-looking jeans if they were young rich and hip.
There is a whole secret language of belt buckles, but I don't speak that one.
I think if you went with a slightly different style of jacket to the norm plus one other differential, that would go a long way. Footwear can be a statement, you will have to decide for yourself what you could pull off - could you be Expensive Sneaker Guy? Cowboy/Hiking Boot Guy? A classic safety work shoe - I know those tick a subtle box in parts of the US and suspect they would in Canada and the UK as well. I've known a couple of guys whose Thing was entire wardrobes of gleamingly clean Converse or Vans, but that is certainly a bold choice and quite a bit of upkeep. Pastel shirts are definitely another way a lot of men go (I see it a lot in my peers as they hit middle age and realize they can't stand to put on another blue or gray shirt in their lives - I don't know if that means pastel button-down shirts are too terribly genx-coded?).
posted by Lyn Never at 9:23 AM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
They need a different thinker. This is really, really vague and not possible to assess with any accuracy. I would offer myself as a different thinker in the most professional ways possible. For instance, I worked with someone who was passionate about mind-mapping, and he was labeled creative and different, but not nutty. I'd visit the office even from the outside, try to figure out how people dress, and dress just barely differently. A beautiful artistic tie, maybe, or a dark shirt color. Look at how people in advertising dress. Lyn Never's advice seems sound. Footwear especially.
posted by theora55 at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I’m really not sure what you’re after here, but be cautious of reading too much into the job ad - especially if it’s vague, you may find they actually want someone quite different than described.
I also think you should get some advice from someone who knows more about your particular context - many people don’t have a good idea of the signals they’re putting out.
posted by momus_window at 10:01 AM on March 4, 2021
I also think you should get some advice from someone who knows more about your particular context - many people don’t have a good idea of the signals they’re putting out.
posted by momus_window at 10:01 AM on March 4, 2021
As a male, anything that softens or feminizes your look will make you stand out from the rest of the dudes.
Yeah, I am also not super clear on what you want need but with your description the first thing that sprung to mind was earrings. Like one in each ear, hoops. Bald + beard + checked shirt + earrings would clock as a not super clear message (which sounds like what you would want) but also not overt in any particular way (so you don't have to maintain appearances). Obviously this doesn't work if your ears aren't pierced but there are other ways to achieve this look. Alternately: that hand tattoo you've always wanted or a very vintage wristwatch.
posted by jessamyn at 2:44 PM on March 4, 2021
Yeah, I am also not super clear on what you want need but with your description the first thing that sprung to mind was earrings. Like one in each ear, hoops. Bald + beard + checked shirt + earrings would clock as a not super clear message (which sounds like what you would want) but also not overt in any particular way (so you don't have to maintain appearances). Obviously this doesn't work if your ears aren't pierced but there are other ways to achieve this look. Alternately: that hand tattoo you've always wanted or a very vintage wristwatch.
posted by jessamyn at 2:44 PM on March 4, 2021
You could swap your tidy checked shirts for Hawaiian print shirts. Very “Hawkeye Pierce on M*A*S*H” -ish.
posted by MexicanYenta at 3:13 PM on March 4, 2021
posted by MexicanYenta at 3:13 PM on March 4, 2021
I'm not sure how international BLM pins are, but there were protests around the world last summer, and everyone SHOULD know what that means and what that signals, no matter where you are.
I've found shoes make a lot of difference. I'm in the states, and have found that Camper brand shoes make a big difference. I know they are much more common in Europe and may not set you apart as much as here. But if you are in a locale where there isn't as much market penetration, they might be the thing. I point you specifically to their Twins line, which are asymmetrically-patterned and pretty cool, I think. I feel like even though they are just shoes, there is something really subversive about them, and I love them!
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:45 PM on March 4, 2021
I've found shoes make a lot of difference. I'm in the states, and have found that Camper brand shoes make a big difference. I know they are much more common in Europe and may not set you apart as much as here. But if you are in a locale where there isn't as much market penetration, they might be the thing. I point you specifically to their Twins line, which are asymmetrically-patterned and pretty cool, I think. I feel like even though they are just shoes, there is something really subversive about them, and I love them!
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:45 PM on March 4, 2021
incorporate elements of punk rock or rude boy style into your clothing? maybe some subtle hair color and/or a subtle facial piercing?
posted by smokyjoe at 5:35 PM on March 4, 2021
posted by smokyjoe at 5:35 PM on March 4, 2021
You could swap your tidy checked shirts for Hawaiian print shirts. Very “Hawkeye Pierce on M*A*S*H” -ish.
This used to be my go-to look, but it seems that especially with a shaved head this will be seen as boogie-boy at the moment.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:20 PM on March 4, 2021
This used to be my go-to look, but it seems that especially with a shaved head this will be seen as boogie-boy at the moment.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:20 PM on March 4, 2021
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consider a particular look/behavior combination. the signal you think you're sending is probably much different than the signal they think they're receiving.
what are they meant to receive?
example: I'm in the US. I'm a an old dude, long hair, very casual by nature. I'm in a conservative industry. a flag pin on the lapel diffuses all kinds of judgement from corporate and military types.
it's another (less weighty) kind of 'passing'.
'tan suit' is another intentional signal for some: I'm not in the ladder climbing, ambitious mode.
i feel i may be misreading the question a bit. curious to hear other responses. cheers!
posted by j_curiouser at 6:43 AM on March 4, 2021