Is this WLB or slacking off?
February 3, 2021 10:06 PM Subscribe
I'm a junior software engineer and I realistically only work 25 hours/week
I started working remotely during the middle of last year. It's my first job out of uni (but not my first job in general). The company I work for isn't known for having a relaxed environment, though it varies by team. I think generally, other software engineers in the company (even junior engineers) have a lot more meetings than me, but my team makes an effort not to have too many meetings. I have ~3 hours of meetings per week.
My managers and teammates are very positive about my work quality and turn-around time, and I'm on track for a promotion. I could be hauling ass and taking on more in order to get promoted faster, but I'm good with the responsibilities I have.
I guess reading what I've written, it all seems ideal, but I feel really guilty. I take so many naps during working hours! I worked much harder in college!
I started working remotely during the middle of last year. It's my first job out of uni (but not my first job in general). The company I work for isn't known for having a relaxed environment, though it varies by team. I think generally, other software engineers in the company (even junior engineers) have a lot more meetings than me, but my team makes an effort not to have too many meetings. I have ~3 hours of meetings per week.
My managers and teammates are very positive about my work quality and turn-around time, and I'm on track for a promotion. I could be hauling ass and taking on more in order to get promoted faster, but I'm good with the responsibilities I have.
I guess reading what I've written, it all seems ideal, but I feel really guilty. I take so many naps during working hours! I worked much harder in college!
Yeah, this is fine, don't worry about it. It's good to have some slack so that if you really want to push, you have room to, and otherwise, yeah, WLB is great.
posted by batter_my_heart at 10:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by batter_my_heart at 10:11 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
However, I had a great job in the late 80's where most weeks I probably did about your hours, while the rest of the site was doing 60 hrs. I actively started looking for the next thing as it was too good to be true for very long.
posted by unearthed at 10:19 PM on February 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by unearthed at 10:19 PM on February 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The main thing is to periodically check in with yourself and ask: am i getting what i want to be getting out of this job in the long run? in the short run? & be true to your own goals, you don't have to take on goals belonging to others around you (your peers at work, your boss, etc).
If you do have a longer-term goal of wanting to climb the ladder into some kind of management role, at some point you'll need to take on responsibility of leading projects, negotiating with stakeholders, supervising the work done by others, etc. That will not be compatible with 25 hour work weeks. But not everyone has this goal (I don't!).
Here and on some other forums where software folks post, it isn't that uncommon to see incredibly stressed people in engineering / ops / SRE positions posting things like:
* "i feel burned out, am anxious about work all the time" --- person goes on to explain they are always formally or informally on-call and putting out work fires with no downtime and no overtime or on-call pay
* "i took a job for $x00k/yr, started two weeks ago, the expectations and work culture are insane, i am putting in 100 hour work weeks, should i quit immediately and repay signing bonus or try to soldier on for the first year" ...
You've got a pretty good deal going.
Usual advice: if you're early in your career try to find roles where you are always learning (in terms of projects you're working on and people you're working with) ; once you have a year or two of solid experience under your belt you are a lot more valuable to both your current employer and other prospective employers, but you probably won't see a proportional pay rise unless you go out on the market and shop around for new job offers.
posted by are-coral-made at 10:44 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
If you do have a longer-term goal of wanting to climb the ladder into some kind of management role, at some point you'll need to take on responsibility of leading projects, negotiating with stakeholders, supervising the work done by others, etc. That will not be compatible with 25 hour work weeks. But not everyone has this goal (I don't!).
Here and on some other forums where software folks post, it isn't that uncommon to see incredibly stressed people in engineering / ops / SRE positions posting things like:
* "i feel burned out, am anxious about work all the time" --- person goes on to explain they are always formally or informally on-call and putting out work fires with no downtime and no overtime or on-call pay
* "i took a job for $x00k/yr, started two weeks ago, the expectations and work culture are insane, i am putting in 100 hour work weeks, should i quit immediately and repay signing bonus or try to soldier on for the first year" ...
You've got a pretty good deal going.
Usual advice: if you're early in your career try to find roles where you are always learning (in terms of projects you're working on and people you're working with) ; once you have a year or two of solid experience under your belt you are a lot more valuable to both your current employer and other prospective employers, but you probably won't see a proportional pay rise unless you go out on the market and shop around for new job offers.
posted by are-coral-made at 10:44 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
You feel guilty because we have a terrible culture where 'work ethic' is subsumed into submissiveness and hyper-productivity. You shouldn't feel guilty, least of all as a junior employee.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:59 PM on February 3, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:59 PM on February 3, 2021 [22 favorites]
You can make use of some of your free time to benefit both yourself and your company: training, research, learning stuff, trying stuff.
If you are on the geeky end of software engineering this might be a think that piques your interest, and it also shows a degree of self motivation that would help with your promotion if you tell people what you've been doing.
Not coincidentally, it also makes you more valuable to anyone else you might want to work for in the future.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:06 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
If you are on the geeky end of software engineering this might be a think that piques your interest, and it also shows a degree of self motivation that would help with your promotion if you tell people what you've been doing.
Not coincidentally, it also makes you more valuable to anyone else you might want to work for in the future.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:06 PM on February 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Hauling ass to work more is not something you can do for the rest of your life - resting your mind is sometimes part of the process, allowing you to have a better flow when you are concentrating. If your work is considered good, and they are happy with the speed at which you get it done, then you have found the right level of day-to-day effort to expend. There are going to be times in your life that you will need to work extra hard, (a deadline gets moved, something goes wrong and needs to be fixed...) and if you have been pushing yourself constantly, you're not going to have the reserves available to deal with that crisis. Failing at that point, when you are needed most, is going to be very damaging to your career.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:47 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:47 PM on February 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
It seems completely plausible to me that your naps and time away from the keyboard is helping your productivity. If they're happy with what you're getting done, there's no reason for you to beating yourself up about how you're doing it (unless it's somehow having a deleterious effect on your life).
Enjoy it!
posted by aubilenon at 1:09 AM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
Enjoy it!
posted by aubilenon at 1:09 AM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
This is a secret of some but not all corporate jobs. Personally I have a job that's meant to be 40hrs/week at a company that (thankfully) doesn't have a big culture of working much longer hours unless you're in a particularly crunchy role or you're a fair bit more senior than I am, and it definitely doesn't take me 40 hours every week to complete a meaningful amount of work that progresses all of my objectives and makes me appear "productive enough" (and often more than that) to my coworkers. I'm fortunate that my company is one that cares more about outcomes than ass-in-seat hours, and I don't think anyone has ever noticed that I don't consistently work my contracted hours because I do consistently deliver everything that's asked of me and often more.
I notice other adults (particularly those who feel more compulsion than I do to appear like they're working a lot or overworking) engaging in what seem to me like huge amounts of busywork to fill up some of those hours. I struggle to persuade myself that this is valuable enough for me to appear to be doing enough for me to actually do it, so mostly I don't. Others still perceive me as "very busy" most of the time, but I strongly suspect a lot of this is them projecting, or them having a poor sense of the time it takes me to complete various types of work, rather than me successfully engaging in busy-ness performance theatre, because I'm largely too weird and neurodivergent to pull off that kind of social performance even if I wanted to, which I don't, because it seems pointless to me.
I think another relevant factor for me is that I work fast, definitely faster than my average coworker. Since childhood I've always been a fast thinker, reader and writer, and that's definitely an advantage in a job that mostly involves thinking, reading and writing. Before I had a better handle on how abnormal my processing speed is compared to most other adults I've met in the workplace, I used to wonder how other people could possibly take as long to complete certain tasks as they claimed to, based on the speed I was completing similar tasks at. As I've gotten older, I've come to realise just how different everyone's brains are and just how varied different people's approaches to getting tasks done are, to the point where I have a better sense of the "spectrum of reasonable" when it comes to how long it takes a person to do something.
I also find it easier than ever to a) conceal the amount of time it takes me to get my work done and b) spend the remaining time on whatever activities I choose (some that will benefit my employer in future, some that definitely won't) while working remotely in a knowledge worker type role. Again, I've found it hard to relate to the people who've felt that pandemic-enforced remote working means they never turn off or work much longer hours, as I just don't have the motivation (or indeed enough work that I'm actually motivated to complete to fill the time), and again, it's really hard to tell how much of this is the speed at which I'm able to complete comparatively complex work, and how much is just my personality.
There can be a lot of social pressure to partake in the busy-ness performance theatre of the modern workplace, from the small and subtle (not disagreeing when people assume you're very busy, even if you're not - which even I do from time to time as it's less socially frowned upon than disagreeing with someone else's assessment of how busy I am, apparently) to the full-fat approach of actually doing an extra 20-odd hours a week of busywork. There can also be a lot of social pressure never to let on if you're not actually filling your hours but no one has an issue with your performance - and while I'm glad that more people are talking about this phenomenon socially, I still suspect it's a bad idea to talk about at the place where you're doing fewer hours than are normally considered "full-time" work. But at the same time, I'd encourage you not to feel guilty about it, to try to enjoy it as much while you can and while it lasts, and not to get sucked into someone else's idea of what "enough work" looks like as long as no one in your leadership chain is implying that you're falling short of that bar in their eyes.
That said, I do think it's possible to be under-stimulated in this kind of job, and I'd encourage you to look out for warning signs like overall lower motivation to complete even the 25 hours of work a week you're currently doing, less interest in growing your skills, difficulty concentrating on work during your on times because you're used to having so much downtime, getting passed over for opportunities to advance that you're actually interested in because of motivation issues or because you haven't developed necessary skills, etc. All of those are potentially soft signs that you could use more of a challenge at work (which still might not mean working 40+ hours a week somewhere else but might mean working more than 25).
The other secret of having a slow job, or a job that you can complete the requirements of more quickly than the average worker, is that it can sometimes get boring in ways that hamper your overall motivation and make it harder for you to imagine succeeding in (or even applying for) a more demanding or challenging job. Starting to feel like that's the case can also be a sign to move on or to take on more responsibility in your current role.
posted by terretu at 2:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [30 favorites]
I notice other adults (particularly those who feel more compulsion than I do to appear like they're working a lot or overworking) engaging in what seem to me like huge amounts of busywork to fill up some of those hours. I struggle to persuade myself that this is valuable enough for me to appear to be doing enough for me to actually do it, so mostly I don't. Others still perceive me as "very busy" most of the time, but I strongly suspect a lot of this is them projecting, or them having a poor sense of the time it takes me to complete various types of work, rather than me successfully engaging in busy-ness performance theatre, because I'm largely too weird and neurodivergent to pull off that kind of social performance even if I wanted to, which I don't, because it seems pointless to me.
I think another relevant factor for me is that I work fast, definitely faster than my average coworker. Since childhood I've always been a fast thinker, reader and writer, and that's definitely an advantage in a job that mostly involves thinking, reading and writing. Before I had a better handle on how abnormal my processing speed is compared to most other adults I've met in the workplace, I used to wonder how other people could possibly take as long to complete certain tasks as they claimed to, based on the speed I was completing similar tasks at. As I've gotten older, I've come to realise just how different everyone's brains are and just how varied different people's approaches to getting tasks done are, to the point where I have a better sense of the "spectrum of reasonable" when it comes to how long it takes a person to do something.
I also find it easier than ever to a) conceal the amount of time it takes me to get my work done and b) spend the remaining time on whatever activities I choose (some that will benefit my employer in future, some that definitely won't) while working remotely in a knowledge worker type role. Again, I've found it hard to relate to the people who've felt that pandemic-enforced remote working means they never turn off or work much longer hours, as I just don't have the motivation (or indeed enough work that I'm actually motivated to complete to fill the time), and again, it's really hard to tell how much of this is the speed at which I'm able to complete comparatively complex work, and how much is just my personality.
There can be a lot of social pressure to partake in the busy-ness performance theatre of the modern workplace, from the small and subtle (not disagreeing when people assume you're very busy, even if you're not - which even I do from time to time as it's less socially frowned upon than disagreeing with someone else's assessment of how busy I am, apparently) to the full-fat approach of actually doing an extra 20-odd hours a week of busywork. There can also be a lot of social pressure never to let on if you're not actually filling your hours but no one has an issue with your performance - and while I'm glad that more people are talking about this phenomenon socially, I still suspect it's a bad idea to talk about at the place where you're doing fewer hours than are normally considered "full-time" work. But at the same time, I'd encourage you not to feel guilty about it, to try to enjoy it as much while you can and while it lasts, and not to get sucked into someone else's idea of what "enough work" looks like as long as no one in your leadership chain is implying that you're falling short of that bar in their eyes.
That said, I do think it's possible to be under-stimulated in this kind of job, and I'd encourage you to look out for warning signs like overall lower motivation to complete even the 25 hours of work a week you're currently doing, less interest in growing your skills, difficulty concentrating on work during your on times because you're used to having so much downtime, getting passed over for opportunities to advance that you're actually interested in because of motivation issues or because you haven't developed necessary skills, etc. All of those are potentially soft signs that you could use more of a challenge at work (which still might not mean working 40+ hours a week somewhere else but might mean working more than 25).
The other secret of having a slow job, or a job that you can complete the requirements of more quickly than the average worker, is that it can sometimes get boring in ways that hamper your overall motivation and make it harder for you to imagine succeeding in (or even applying for) a more demanding or challenging job. Starting to feel like that's the case can also be a sign to move on or to take on more responsibility in your current role.
posted by terretu at 2:29 AM on February 4, 2021 [30 favorites]
I think about 60-70% of a 40 hour work week being spent on Actual Work is about average for many jobs, but capitalism doesn't like people admitting that... Work is big on traditional methods, even when a hell of a lot more people work far better from home or unconventional schedules.
posted by Jacen at 3:39 AM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 3:39 AM on February 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
This is your privilege for working in a field that is currently showered with money, benefits, and adoration.
Like any privilege, it will sit better with you (and those around you) if you use it for good.
Like any privilege, it may not last, and you may also feel better if you prepare for that.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
Like any privilege, it will sit better with you (and those around you) if you use it for good.
Like any privilege, it may not last, and you may also feel better if you prepare for that.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [8 favorites]
I've always thought that as long as shit is getting done the time at the keyboard doesn't matter that much. If you feel guilty you might look around and see if there's anything that can be improved and spend some time there. Something that helps your team mates, and thus you.
posted by Awfki at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Awfki at 5:49 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hi, me!
I mean, obviously not literally me. But when I was a junior developer, I felt much the same. I seemed to be doing fine (I was) and I didn't actually work that hard. I think my real hours were probably closer to 30?
The thing that tripped me up was, the bar for expectations as a junior was relatively low; turns out I could jump over that bar easily without trying hard. By the time I had a couple more years under my belt and that first promotion, I had a lot more responsibility - and a lot more expectation. I had a rough patch where I had to "learn to work hard," as it were. The bar got raised, and now I had to put Actual Effort into clearing it. In the end it was worthwhile and I've had a really successful and rewarding career, but it wasn't my favorite adjustment.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding a career path where you can work less hard, maintain a good work-life balance, and just... not try to become CTO by 35. It's absolutely fine. Just keep in mind that's probably more like "perpetually vaguely senior but without management responsibilities," than "perpetually junior. To put it another way, right now you can make progress like you're walking across a flat surface. You're probably going to have to learn to hike uphill before long, because the only paths that have a long stretch of plateau ahead of you are higher up the mountain range. There just aren't any paths that let you stay where you are indefinitely, and there's a danger in getting too complacent.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
I mean, obviously not literally me. But when I was a junior developer, I felt much the same. I seemed to be doing fine (I was) and I didn't actually work that hard. I think my real hours were probably closer to 30?
The thing that tripped me up was, the bar for expectations as a junior was relatively low; turns out I could jump over that bar easily without trying hard. By the time I had a couple more years under my belt and that first promotion, I had a lot more responsibility - and a lot more expectation. I had a rough patch where I had to "learn to work hard," as it were. The bar got raised, and now I had to put Actual Effort into clearing it. In the end it was worthwhile and I've had a really successful and rewarding career, but it wasn't my favorite adjustment.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding a career path where you can work less hard, maintain a good work-life balance, and just... not try to become CTO by 35. It's absolutely fine. Just keep in mind that's probably more like "perpetually vaguely senior but without management responsibilities," than "perpetually junior. To put it another way, right now you can make progress like you're walking across a flat surface. You're probably going to have to learn to hike uphill before long, because the only paths that have a long stretch of plateau ahead of you are higher up the mountain range. There just aren't any paths that let you stay where you are indefinitely, and there's a danger in getting too complacent.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:40 AM on February 4, 2021 [11 favorites]
If by "25 hours / week" you mean 24 hours of actual productive software development - writing code, reviewing code, debugging code, working on designs - you're fine. If you're including time fucking around reading Metafilter and Hacker News and the like, not so much. But most full time software engineers in an office are spending part of their nominal 40 hours doing side stuff, not to mention socializing at the espresso machine. That's work of a kind too. Roughly half your full time hours being actual development is fairly good for average weeks.
posted by Nelson at 8:20 AM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 8:20 AM on February 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
It sounds fine if they're fine with it, and I agree that you will have more hours as you get more senior (in meetings if nothing else). When I started at my job, I was craving more hours because I felt underutilized and ended up working on a bunch of side projects. Now I barely have time to finish my actual work.
You may also want to use some of your "free" time leveling up your skills for your own personal development because no one can guarantee how long a good situation will last.
posted by redlines at 8:31 AM on February 4, 2021
You may also want to use some of your "free" time leveling up your skills for your own personal development because no one can guarantee how long a good situation will last.
posted by redlines at 8:31 AM on February 4, 2021
other software engineers in the company (even junior engineers) have a lot more meetings than me
Here's the thing: more meetings doesn't actually mean they're getting any more done than you are, it just means they're in more meetings. Filling up spare time with busywork meetings is a real thing that happens on some teams, and it sucks. As long as you're not in an environment that expects you to be in lots of meetings, you're fine! It's the teams where you're supposed to be in endless meetings and still only doing about 20 hours of actual development work that really sucks.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:32 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Here's the thing: more meetings doesn't actually mean they're getting any more done than you are, it just means they're in more meetings. Filling up spare time with busywork meetings is a real thing that happens on some teams, and it sucks. As long as you're not in an environment that expects you to be in lots of meetings, you're fine! It's the teams where you're supposed to be in endless meetings and still only doing about 20 hours of actual development work that really sucks.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:32 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
It’s completely normal to feel “lazy” at your first job out of college, especially if you went to a very competitive school.
It may be that you’re “showered with privilege” right now by working in software but it’s not that uncommon to get only about 25 hours a week of actual work done at a 40 hour a week job in any industry. Working 40 actual hours of high quality work is pretty much impossible; people who actually work that much generally have lots of low-effort tasks they can do on 10% brain capacity. Software often isn’t like that and working at 10% will often cost you more time later.
As you get promoted you’ll probably be expected to get more and more overworked. Like you say, a big part of that is attending meetings all day then realizing at 3 or 4 pm that you still need to do your actual job. Lots of email too.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:58 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
It may be that you’re “showered with privilege” right now by working in software but it’s not that uncommon to get only about 25 hours a week of actual work done at a 40 hour a week job in any industry. Working 40 actual hours of high quality work is pretty much impossible; people who actually work that much generally have lots of low-effort tasks they can do on 10% brain capacity. Software often isn’t like that and working at 10% will often cost you more time later.
As you get promoted you’ll probably be expected to get more and more overworked. Like you say, a big part of that is attending meetings all day then realizing at 3 or 4 pm that you still need to do your actual job. Lots of email too.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:58 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I also work in a software company, although I am a UI/UX designer. I used tracking software to find out how much I was 'working' in a given week awhile back. IIRC I spent around 25-30 hours in 'work' software (Sketch, Sublime, GitHub, etc) and this was while spending at least 40 hours a week in the office. I suppose the rest of the time was meetings, water cooler talk, and MetaFilter. 25 hours or so of actual real work per week is pretty normal, I think.
There are people, especially in software, who seem to work endless hours. Mostly these people are not as productive as they think and would be contributing just as much if they worked normal hours.
I would stay away from taking naps during working hours though! Being unavailable during working hours might be blocking your teammates.
posted by TurnKey at 10:41 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
There are people, especially in software, who seem to work endless hours. Mostly these people are not as productive as they think and would be contributing just as much if they worked normal hours.
I would stay away from taking naps during working hours though! Being unavailable during working hours might be blocking your teammates.
posted by TurnKey at 10:41 AM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
As a manager, I ran into this all the time. What I told my reports was that I am paying them a salary to complete certain tasks. I am not paying them by the hour to be at my beck and call. Here is what you have to do and here is when it needs to be finished by. If you consistently do that, I am good no matter how much or how little time it takes.
Having said that, I also need to know if you are working in a team or alone on whatever it is that you do. The timing working with a team when you are part of the whole is important that you do not fall behind the others. That does not sound like it is the case with you. I would add that for those workers who worked faster than time allocated AND asked for more work were valued higher and might even get paid more or a raise faster.
If you are content and so is your boss/team, then nap away.
posted by AugustWest at 10:43 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Having said that, I also need to know if you are working in a team or alone on whatever it is that you do. The timing working with a team when you are part of the whole is important that you do not fall behind the others. That does not sound like it is the case with you. I would add that for those workers who worked faster than time allocated AND asked for more work were valued higher and might even get paid more or a raise faster.
If you are content and so is your boss/team, then nap away.
posted by AugustWest at 10:43 AM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
You're doing fine. "Work shy" employees are an issue only to management and owners. If it bothers you, ask for more tasks.
posted by Rash at 11:54 AM on February 4, 2021
posted by Rash at 11:54 AM on February 4, 2021
You may also want to use some of your "free" time leveling up your skills for your own personal development.
This.
At least if you're feeling guilty. The best years of my career from a professional standpoint was when I set a personal rule that if I had downtime at work where I'd be tempted to surf the web, I'd only be reading professional level stuff (meaning papers, training courses, etcetera--not tech news stuff.) It can pay off in lots of ways, sometimes monetarily but also giving you more options to control what you're doing later career.
Admittedly this is a bit more "be a good corporate denizen" spin than many comments here and it depends on your goals, professionally and in life. But a situation where you have enough time to learn things and try applying them to your work is in my experience really rare. And while not everyone you work for & with will appreciate the level of ability you develop, the ones who do are usually the most competent and bet colleagues.
posted by mark k at 12:08 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
This.
At least if you're feeling guilty. The best years of my career from a professional standpoint was when I set a personal rule that if I had downtime at work where I'd be tempted to surf the web, I'd only be reading professional level stuff (meaning papers, training courses, etcetera--not tech news stuff.) It can pay off in lots of ways, sometimes monetarily but also giving you more options to control what you're doing later career.
Admittedly this is a bit more "be a good corporate denizen" spin than many comments here and it depends on your goals, professionally and in life. But a situation where you have enough time to learn things and try applying them to your work is in my experience really rare. And while not everyone you work for & with will appreciate the level of ability you develop, the ones who do are usually the most competent and bet colleagues.
posted by mark k at 12:08 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah, this is why I want to be WFH for the rest of my days, I have spent enough hours filling the time while I warm a seat with nothing to do. I don't think I'm anything terribly special on the brain front, nor am I a, like, a genius innovator in my field I just...work really fast it turns out? Maybe really concentrated, so I do better in short bursts with break time in between.
I do some self-training and stuff during very slow times, but also I am not particularly ambitious, feel no need to advance titles and actively never want to manage another human being again, so that might be part of it? For what it's worth, it's never been a problem and my employers have been pretty happy with me. (I had one job where I actively did ask for more work and was denied it, but I don't think anybody hated me by the end, and it was pretty toxic anyway.) I expect we just...work differently.
It is nice during crunch times, sort of -- I can get into a higher gear and do way more work and fill in my expected hours, but it's unbelievably exhausting and I can see my quality slipping slightly. Still, comes in handy for short periods of time.
Basically, I think if you're getting your work done and your employer is happy with you, just accept that you work differently, and it's all good.
posted by kalimac at 12:22 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I do some self-training and stuff during very slow times, but also I am not particularly ambitious, feel no need to advance titles and actively never want to manage another human being again, so that might be part of it? For what it's worth, it's never been a problem and my employers have been pretty happy with me. (I had one job where I actively did ask for more work and was denied it, but I don't think anybody hated me by the end, and it was pretty toxic anyway.) I expect we just...work differently.
It is nice during crunch times, sort of -- I can get into a higher gear and do way more work and fill in my expected hours, but it's unbelievably exhausting and I can see my quality slipping slightly. Still, comes in handy for short periods of time.
Basically, I think if you're getting your work done and your employer is happy with you, just accept that you work differently, and it's all good.
posted by kalimac at 12:22 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I worked much harder in college!
I used to manage a team of mostly direct-college-hire engineers. I heard this a lot!
That's not really a measure of how easy the job is, but in many cases it's because college was unsustainably hard. It's something you do when you've got a lot of energy and, generally, not much else going on in life. And it lasts a finite amount of time.
That's not how adult jobs (are supposed to) work.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:55 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
I used to manage a team of mostly direct-college-hire engineers. I heard this a lot!
That's not really a measure of how easy the job is, but in many cases it's because college was unsustainably hard. It's something you do when you've got a lot of energy and, generally, not much else going on in life. And it lasts a finite amount of time.
That's not how adult jobs (are supposed to) work.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:55 PM on February 4, 2021 [3 favorites]
Lots of great advice here. In addition to what everyone else has said, it took me quite a while to realize that one of the things professionals are paid for is availability. You might not be needed for more than five hours of work right now, but you are on staff and your boss can give you more to do if they need to. Having you on standby is worth something to them.
I'd say enjoy it while it lasts, and take advantage of some of the time to do some professional development, upgrade your skills, and take care of your psychological and physical well being. (Naps are okay!)
posted by rpfields at 4:04 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'd say enjoy it while it lasts, and take advantage of some of the time to do some professional development, upgrade your skills, and take care of your psychological and physical well being. (Naps are okay!)
posted by rpfields at 4:04 PM on February 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
They're happy, not sure I'd rock that boat. But you have 15 hours a week to fill. is there a project you'd like to work on? something you want to learn? if so, maybe an hour or 2 a day of that would be fulfilling.
posted by theora55 at 4:06 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 4:06 PM on February 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
There are people, especially in software, who seem to work endless hours. Mostly these people are not as productive as they think and would be contributing just as much if they worked normal hours.
Yeah, this. There are times (not during a launch or any other kind of crunch) where I find myself working 12 hour days, out of boredom or trying to distract myself from other life stuff and it never actually makes me more productive, never gets me more praise or respect from management— it’s usually me getting hyperfocused on something I can’t let go of. Maybe I’m digging into an issue I really want to understand, so it’s personally gratifying, but sometimes it’s also not and it’s just anxiety keeping my butt in the seat. And then comes the crash, burnout or depression, just like any other type of addiction (workaholism is real). I get plenty of praise and respect for doing my job well during normal working hours. Overworking has no positive correlation with recognition or success, in my experience.
I’ve noticed in my org, the people who get promoted quickly & are well respected are NOT the overworkers— they might work weird hours, or have an “always on” brain, or be honestly passionate about the work, but their lives are fairly balanced.
The people I know who are consistently always at their laptop night and day seem to be overall less competent, take longer to get promoted, etc. I don’t know if they have a mindset that holds them back or if being held back makes them “work” (busy work) harder out of anxiety but it’s something I’ve observed. These tend to be the frustrating managers too, who think you can only get ahead by overextending yourself. IMO, you get ahead by knowing how to prioritize, what to drop, and protecting yourself from burnout.
Work hard but at the right things and not too much. That’s my advice.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:51 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this. There are times (not during a launch or any other kind of crunch) where I find myself working 12 hour days, out of boredom or trying to distract myself from other life stuff and it never actually makes me more productive, never gets me more praise or respect from management— it’s usually me getting hyperfocused on something I can’t let go of. Maybe I’m digging into an issue I really want to understand, so it’s personally gratifying, but sometimes it’s also not and it’s just anxiety keeping my butt in the seat. And then comes the crash, burnout or depression, just like any other type of addiction (workaholism is real). I get plenty of praise and respect for doing my job well during normal working hours. Overworking has no positive correlation with recognition or success, in my experience.
I’ve noticed in my org, the people who get promoted quickly & are well respected are NOT the overworkers— they might work weird hours, or have an “always on” brain, or be honestly passionate about the work, but their lives are fairly balanced.
The people I know who are consistently always at their laptop night and day seem to be overall less competent, take longer to get promoted, etc. I don’t know if they have a mindset that holds them back or if being held back makes them “work” (busy work) harder out of anxiety but it’s something I’ve observed. These tend to be the frustrating managers too, who think you can only get ahead by overextending yourself. IMO, you get ahead by knowing how to prioritize, what to drop, and protecting yourself from burnout.
Work hard but at the right things and not too much. That’s my advice.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:51 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Another point about those quick-to-be-promoted people who don’t overwork— if your work has public calendar sharing, take a look at the calendar of someone you consider a high performer. It’s probably chock full of “creative” meetings— brainstorming, design, community contributions, social/professional meetups. Plenty of non-work work. Or very few meetings, if they’re a highly technical person.
Then look at the calendar of someone you consider average & busy. Probably also lots of meetings but significantly more mundane, time wasting, could’ve-been-an-email stuff. .
Keeping your eye on the creative, passionate stuff and silently dropping the stuff that has no impact pays off. Right now you’re doing that probably in a way appropriate for your level— as you go up the ladder, you may have more opportunities to fill that down time with work, but fun work. Depending on your personal values you can embrace that or not.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:58 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Then look at the calendar of someone you consider average & busy. Probably also lots of meetings but significantly more mundane, time wasting, could’ve-been-an-email stuff. .
Keeping your eye on the creative, passionate stuff and silently dropping the stuff that has no impact pays off. Right now you’re doing that probably in a way appropriate for your level— as you go up the ladder, you may have more opportunities to fill that down time with work, but fun work. Depending on your personal values you can embrace that or not.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:58 PM on February 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 10:08 PM on February 3, 2021 [28 favorites]