Is it normal for Craigslist buyers to ask for returns?
January 25, 2021 12:22 PM Subscribe
I have been trying to sell a microphone that I bought used a few years ago. I've had two offers to buy it, and both of them have asked if they can return it if it doesn't work. This seems really scammy to me, and it's something I've never had happen when I've previously sold things on Craigslist. Is this normal?
This is really normal. Lots of scammy people try to sell gear that doesn’t work and then won’t allow returns. Can you meet them outdoors somewhere and allow them to test it? (This will depend on having a power supply, amplifier, etc.)
posted by corey flood at 12:42 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 12:42 PM on January 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Not, it is not remotely normal! The reason why people sell stuff and buy stuff on Craigslist is that buyer gets the opportunity to check the merchandise in person and the seller gets paid immediately in cash. How do you know they're not trying to pull a bait and switch on you and return a different microphone? I would block them just for asking, to be honest, because there are a ton of scammers on Craigslist. If it seems hinky, it probably is. If they want returns they should buy stuff on eBay.
posted by wnissen at 12:50 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by wnissen at 12:50 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Lots of people buy from Craigslist because they don't have much to spend. They are necessarily concerned about losing what little they have on something that doesn't work. People sometimes get confused that other sellers aren't going to act like a retail storefront (but with bargaining) for their convenience. Explain that you will plug the device in and show them that it functions, and they can decide if they want to buy it. If they buy it, there will be no returns.
posted by agentofselection at 12:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by agentofselection at 12:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'd take a video of it working and send that and say it's being sold as-is. I wouldn't want to take back a used microphone, especially during COVID.
posted by quince at 1:05 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by quince at 1:05 PM on January 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Probably not what's going on here, but in the yesteryears when I was home-recording more, I didn't have enough money to buy the really nice mics that I wanted to record with, so I'd rent them when I could. On occasion, I couldn't find them to rent, so I'd put them on the credit card, finish up my recording, sell it at 80-85% of the price on ebay, and consider that loss to be my 'rental fee' and pay off the card debt.
It would totally be within the same game to pay someone $500 for a nice mic, record with it, then ask for the money back in return for the mic - much like my 'rental fee', except they're getting 100% of the outlay, and externalizing the 'cost' by making you sweat over it. Cynical, I know, but also food for thought.
posted by eclectist at 1:11 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
It would totally be within the same game to pay someone $500 for a nice mic, record with it, then ask for the money back in return for the mic - much like my 'rental fee', except they're getting 100% of the outlay, and externalizing the 'cost' by making you sweat over it. Cynical, I know, but also food for thought.
posted by eclectist at 1:11 PM on January 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'd be concerned with some variation on an overpayment scam. They pay with x payment method, you refund in cash/a different payment then they revoke payment, and you are out the money.
I would also record the serial number as well on case they are trying to swap a broken one for your working one.
Trying to "rent" it for free seems most likely to me though if it's actual local people.
posted by TheAdamist at 1:39 PM on January 25, 2021
I would also record the serial number as well on case they are trying to swap a broken one for your working one.
Trying to "rent" it for free seems most likely to me though if it's actual local people.
posted by TheAdamist at 1:39 PM on January 25, 2021
Anecdotally, and unfortunately, I know someone who works in film and does the exact thing that eclectist mentions - "buys" equipment and then returns it for a 100% refund after using it. They do this from brick and mortar retailers and I guess they think of it as "sticking it to the man" but I could imagine someone planning to do the same thing with you.
I've never bought something from CraigsList thinking I could return it, I always assume I'm risking that the thing will break/collapse minutes after I buy it, which is why CL prices are so much lower.
posted by rogerroger at 1:56 PM on January 25, 2021
I've never bought something from CraigsList thinking I could return it, I always assume I'm risking that the thing will break/collapse minutes after I buy it, which is why CL prices are so much lower.
posted by rogerroger at 1:56 PM on January 25, 2021
Huge red flag for me and I would not agree. What I've done with appliances etc is to demonstrate that they work beforehand.
posted by ToddBurson at 2:13 PM on January 25, 2021
posted by ToddBurson at 2:13 PM on January 25, 2021
The nice thing about Craigslist is that you can impose whatever conditions you want on your sale, and just refuse offers that don't meet your conditions. The worst that can happen is that no-one buys your thing.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:49 PM on January 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 2:49 PM on January 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
Hmm. I may be an outlier, but this sounds pretty reasonable to me. I'm not a big seller or buyer by any means, but when I've sold electronic things that can be broken in non-obvious ways, I've always offered a 7 day no-questions-asked return if they pay for return shipping or drop it off. Nobody's ever taken me up on it.
Expecting someone to try out a microphone in a meaningful way during the exchange seems unusual. Some people have portable recording rigs with appropriate preamps, connectors, voltage bias, and good headphones. But, a lot of people buying mics on Craigslist don't. Buying an expensive mic without being able to test it is a significant gamble for the buyer. If it's someone broke and splurging on a fancy mic, that's not a trivial concern.
If you're worried about a swap, you could always open the case and put a little paint dot somewhere. If you specify that you get to examine the item before the refund, you're pretty safe aside from wasted time. I'm not sure there's any real consequence for refusing the return outside of small claims court (at least in the US) which is unlikely. I guess if you're really worried about a scam, not telling them where you live and meeting on a corner is an option.
posted by eotvos at 2:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Expecting someone to try out a microphone in a meaningful way during the exchange seems unusual. Some people have portable recording rigs with appropriate preamps, connectors, voltage bias, and good headphones. But, a lot of people buying mics on Craigslist don't. Buying an expensive mic without being able to test it is a significant gamble for the buyer. If it's someone broke and splurging on a fancy mic, that's not a trivial concern.
If you're worried about a swap, you could always open the case and put a little paint dot somewhere. If you specify that you get to examine the item before the refund, you're pretty safe aside from wasted time. I'm not sure there's any real consequence for refusing the return outside of small claims court (at least in the US) which is unlikely. I guess if you're really worried about a scam, not telling them where you live and meeting on a corner is an option.
posted by eotvos at 2:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
A koan. As someone who's been poor, this is the sort of question I had to ask even though I don't think you should have to. Think of all the cases of selling a PS5 (or whatever) _box_ that eBay et all have allowed. As a rich person, those questions aren't worth my time. Which side would you rather be on?
The specific answer, for me at this time, is that I'm happy to demonstrate that the mic works at the time of sale but that I'm not willing to give a warranty beyond that. I'm assuming that the mic is worth a maximum of $150 (used) with that statement. If it's substantially above, the statement would vary.
posted by Candleman at 4:13 PM on January 25, 2021
The specific answer, for me at this time, is that I'm happy to demonstrate that the mic works at the time of sale but that I'm not willing to give a warranty beyond that. I'm assuming that the mic is worth a maximum of $150 (used) with that statement. If it's substantially above, the statement would vary.
posted by Candleman at 4:13 PM on January 25, 2021
I used to be 100% behind the "as-is, no give-backs" CL approach, and for some things I think it works fine.
I've been selling off some old recording gear, and in COVID times or with unavailable testing equipment, I've been pretty open to someone reaching out in a few days to troubleshoot an issue to resolution or to send a video showing that the thing doesn't work at all. I have accepted a return in one case, and asked them to just take the item to Goodwill.
I sold an expensive mountain bike and a kayak pre-COVID, and had a similar discussion that if any significant issues were found they're welcome to get in touch.
Things to reduce the risk: record a video of yourself using the thing. I did that with a super nice electronic drum kit and someone bought it sight unseen out of state. We did some mutual background checking to establish trust.
But with this return/testing policy, I've also stuck to my listed price instead of permitting the usual "would you take $20 less" CL approach.
Note that if you sell enough you will eventually run into someone really unhinged. We sold a $50 vintage record player to someone pre-COVID. He tested it out at our house and was happy with it. The next day he left my wife a series of escalating VMs and texts telling us "the speakers are blown," "you don't wanna mess with me," and "I'm gonna kill you." We offered him $25 to go away and never come back and he responded with "if you don't give me all my money back I am going to come to your house and kill you."
posted by MonsieurBon at 4:31 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've been selling off some old recording gear, and in COVID times or with unavailable testing equipment, I've been pretty open to someone reaching out in a few days to troubleshoot an issue to resolution or to send a video showing that the thing doesn't work at all. I have accepted a return in one case, and asked them to just take the item to Goodwill.
I sold an expensive mountain bike and a kayak pre-COVID, and had a similar discussion that if any significant issues were found they're welcome to get in touch.
Things to reduce the risk: record a video of yourself using the thing. I did that with a super nice electronic drum kit and someone bought it sight unseen out of state. We did some mutual background checking to establish trust.
But with this return/testing policy, I've also stuck to my listed price instead of permitting the usual "would you take $20 less" CL approach.
Note that if you sell enough you will eventually run into someone really unhinged. We sold a $50 vintage record player to someone pre-COVID. He tested it out at our house and was happy with it. The next day he left my wife a series of escalating VMs and texts telling us "the speakers are blown," "you don't wanna mess with me," and "I'm gonna kill you." We offered him $25 to go away and never come back and he responded with "if you don't give me all my money back I am going to come to your house and kill you."
posted by MonsieurBon at 4:31 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Not, it is not remotely normal!
Yeah, guessing those who say otherwise don't have much experience selling stuff to strangers, especially of the electronic or automotive variety.
Person is told at every available opportunity that ALL SALES ARE FINAL. Person shows up, person gets to demo/test drive the merchandise (with the caveat if a motorcycle is involved, complete payment is made before said test drive), person pays the money, person never ever is heard from again. If said person is ever attempts to be heard from again, their number is blocked.
That's the only way to do it. The most crazy people possible are already buying stuff from you, why give them the the opportunity to potentially add them as a potential long term relationship? Even if you really, really, really push the ALL SALES ARE FINAL part, people are still going to call you up and blame you causing their impending divorce (trust me it happens more than you'd think with cars, no matter how many times you ask "so, uh, you like working on old cars?"). Don't make it any easier for them.
I know people who have sold laptops who said "let me know if something ends up not working!" that had to deal with people who assumed that meant a literal lifetime commitment to tech support, so it's not even just cars/motorcycles.
posted by sideshow at 5:13 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah, guessing those who say otherwise don't have much experience selling stuff to strangers, especially of the electronic or automotive variety.
Person is told at every available opportunity that ALL SALES ARE FINAL. Person shows up, person gets to demo/test drive the merchandise (with the caveat if a motorcycle is involved, complete payment is made before said test drive), person pays the money, person never ever is heard from again. If said person is ever attempts to be heard from again, their number is blocked.
That's the only way to do it. The most crazy people possible are already buying stuff from you, why give them the the opportunity to potentially add them as a potential long term relationship? Even if you really, really, really push the ALL SALES ARE FINAL part, people are still going to call you up and blame you causing their impending divorce (trust me it happens more than you'd think with cars, no matter how many times you ask "so, uh, you like working on old cars?"). Don't make it any easier for them.
I know people who have sold laptops who said "let me know if something ends up not working!" that had to deal with people who assumed that meant a literal lifetime commitment to tech support, so it's not even just cars/motorcycles.
posted by sideshow at 5:13 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Offer to test/demo the mic in their presence before they commit to making the final purchase.
If they want to test the mic themselves in your presence before purchasing, then cover the mic (thin plastic bag would probably be the easiest option) before letting them test it, to reduce Covid risk. Right now broadcasting stations/companies are using similar disposable mic covers for this reason (example). More hygiene tips here on the first few pages of this Sennheiser document).
Another option: demo-ing the mic over video call to them.
posted by aielen at 8:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
If they want to test the mic themselves in your presence before purchasing, then cover the mic (thin plastic bag would probably be the easiest option) before letting them test it, to reduce Covid risk. Right now broadcasting stations/companies are using similar disposable mic covers for this reason (example). More hygiene tips here on the first few pages of this Sennheiser document).
Another option: demo-ing the mic over video call to them.
posted by aielen at 8:56 PM on January 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Quince and others have it: take a video of yourself using the mic. Assuming it has a readily identifiable serial #, show that on the video. Start with a zoom in on that and then demo the mic to clearly illustrate this is the exact some one (you're not pulling a switch and bait.) In normal times you might be open to letting someone demo it, but in the covid era there is no need for this as long as you can 100% demonstrate it works. Do this properly once so you don't have to re-record for each prospective buyer!
Bottom line, if you have verified that there is currently a market and a somewhat set going price for the mic, do not accept the option of returns as a haggling technique. It just isn't worth it for the many reasons outlined. The person buying can possibly find another used microphone at guitar center or amazon, but they've chosen a cash transaction at a reduced rate for a pretty direct trade off of "all sales final." Especially with the option that someone is trying to 'rent' a really nice mic, it's worth your time to even debate people here. No refunds.
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:13 AM on January 26, 2021
Bottom line, if you have verified that there is currently a market and a somewhat set going price for the mic, do not accept the option of returns as a haggling technique. It just isn't worth it for the many reasons outlined. The person buying can possibly find another used microphone at guitar center or amazon, but they've chosen a cash transaction at a reduced rate for a pretty direct trade off of "all sales final." Especially with the option that someone is trying to 'rent' a really nice mic, it's worth your time to even debate people here. No refunds.
posted by andruwjones26 at 8:13 AM on January 26, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by music for skeletons at 12:29 PM on January 25, 2021 [3 favorites]