Plumbing Filter: Do I *actually* need to fix this toilet problem?
December 8, 2020 5:58 AM Subscribe
Toilet seal was cracked and leaking, so I had a plumber come in to repair it. Way too much money later, he leaves, and a few hours later I see that there is still a very small amount of water leaking from the base of the toilet. They are refusing to fix it, and I'm thinking its maybe not serious enough to need fixing? More below.
No water was previously leaking from the base of the toilet, it was coming through into the floor/ceiling below. So this specific problem wasn't happening until after he "fixed" it. My position is that at a minimum they need to send someone back at no charge to look at it again.
This is an old, crappy house that I'm going to gut and renovate as soon as I can afford to (1-2 years) so I really do not want to spend anything fixing things beyond holding them together. Right now I'm a student and money is TIGHT.
It is a *very* slow leak, I can just notice water starting to pool in the grout on the tile. Is this something I *really* need to fix? Or can I just wipe it up when I notice it a few times a day and leave the damn thing for a year? I'm planning to move in with my boyfriend and rent this place out until we can afford to do the renovation, so as long as the situation doesn't put me into "slumlord" territory, I'm okay with that.
Company has told me that they "do not have any warranty" on their work, to which I have replied (more diplomatically), "bullshit, this isn't a subsequent issue, this is an immediate problem you caused." They also told me that the plumber recommended a new toilet (he 100% did not). I'm not done with them (will be reporting to BBB and leaving scathing reviews), but I want to know my options here.
No water was previously leaking from the base of the toilet, it was coming through into the floor/ceiling below. So this specific problem wasn't happening until after he "fixed" it. My position is that at a minimum they need to send someone back at no charge to look at it again.
This is an old, crappy house that I'm going to gut and renovate as soon as I can afford to (1-2 years) so I really do not want to spend anything fixing things beyond holding them together. Right now I'm a student and money is TIGHT.
It is a *very* slow leak, I can just notice water starting to pool in the grout on the tile. Is this something I *really* need to fix? Or can I just wipe it up when I notice it a few times a day and leave the damn thing for a year? I'm planning to move in with my boyfriend and rent this place out until we can afford to do the renovation, so as long as the situation doesn't put me into "slumlord" territory, I'm okay with that.
Company has told me that they "do not have any warranty" on their work, to which I have replied (more diplomatically), "bullshit, this isn't a subsequent issue, this is an immediate problem you caused." They also told me that the plumber recommended a new toilet (he 100% did not). I'm not done with them (will be reporting to BBB and leaving scathing reviews), but I want to know my options here.
If I understand correctly, you are planning to rent this place out before you renovate and fix the toilet issue? As a tenant, no way am I ok with cleaning up leaking toilet water "a few times a day". That is not acceptable. Nothing should be leaking.
Plus, for all you know that water is also seeping into the floor under the toilet and rotting your floor out. Leaks are a thing you should always fix, lest they cause waaaay more expensive problems down the road.
posted by stillnocturnal at 6:08 AM on December 8, 2020 [21 favorites]
Plus, for all you know that water is also seeping into the floor under the toilet and rotting your floor out. Leaks are a thing you should always fix, lest they cause waaaay more expensive problems down the road.
posted by stillnocturnal at 6:08 AM on December 8, 2020 [21 favorites]
Not sure about the laws where you are, but where I am, trades, etc have a legal requirement of a term warranty (I think one year) on their work. Is there either a plumber's union (i.e., licensing body) or better business bureau you could call to run this nonsense by? Maybe a little leverage to get a better response from this terrible company.
As to the leak itself, my go to for our building is to tighten the screws at the base. Very often it's just a loose screw leaking a bit of water. Pop off the cover of the screws on either side, and tighten a little (you don't want to crank down too hard, but you do want it right enough to seal). See if the water doesn't reappear tomorrow. ...I hope it's this simple for you! Good luck.
posted by tamarack at 6:12 AM on December 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
As to the leak itself, my go to for our building is to tighten the screws at the base. Very often it's just a loose screw leaking a bit of water. Pop off the cover of the screws on either side, and tighten a little (you don't want to crank down too hard, but you do want it right enough to seal). See if the water doesn't reappear tomorrow. ...I hope it's this simple for you! Good luck.
posted by tamarack at 6:12 AM on December 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is there any chance that the water is coming from the water hose that feeds the toilet? There should be a little flexible tube/hose going into it, and sometimes the shutoff valves on those will drip.
posted by Slinga at 6:14 AM on December 8, 2020
posted by Slinga at 6:14 AM on December 8, 2020
This is absolutely a case of "the plumber needs to finish their job" call the boss. Threaten with a bad review. This is the plumbers fault.
posted by bbqturtle at 6:24 AM on December 8, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by bbqturtle at 6:24 AM on December 8, 2020 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: For clarification, this is not a lot of water. We're talking 5-15ml a day. Literally the grout is dark, but otherwise there is nothing coming through. Nothing in the ceiling and nothing is wet up there (there's a hole from the first repair, I can see clearly). No moisture anywhere else.
The hose has been replaced, it is not the hose.
I'm actually concerned the screws at the base are too tight? The caps used to sit overtop of them snugly, and now they won't go all the way down. It is not the screws, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, due to a comedy of errors that I cannot get into here for my sanity, in the interim some city contractors have shut off my water and the plumbers won't come back until that is resolved.
posted by dazedandconfused at 7:15 AM on December 8, 2020
The hose has been replaced, it is not the hose.
I'm actually concerned the screws at the base are too tight? The caps used to sit overtop of them snugly, and now they won't go all the way down. It is not the screws, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, due to a comedy of errors that I cannot get into here for my sanity, in the interim some city contractors have shut off my water and the plumbers won't come back until that is resolved.
posted by dazedandconfused at 7:15 AM on December 8, 2020
The first answer is still correct; the fact that you can only see a little moisture doesn’t make it ok. You don’t know what’s going on under the flooring, and the acceptable amount of sustained dampening of wooden subfloor and framing is zero.
posted by jon1270 at 7:27 AM on December 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 7:27 AM on December 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
(I think I misread your followup; you apparently can see the area from below. I still wouldn’t leave it this way.)
posted by jon1270 at 7:30 AM on December 8, 2020
posted by jon1270 at 7:30 AM on December 8, 2020
Damage to wood and fasteners due to moisture sets in way before there is visible water or wetting of the wood. Moisture contents as low as 15% can cause nails/screws to rust away and black mould starts at 25% in standard spruce/fir/pine structural wood and sheathing. For perspective a fresh winter felled softwood tree will have a moisture content higher than 50% and still not look wet.
5-15mls a day and visible in the grout is absolutely enough to start and sustain rot and mould. As a rule of thumb if you can see moisture on the surface from a leak your framing is being damaged. A little leak like your describing will wick into mating surfaces (like between sub flooring and joists) and then just sit there doing it's evil house destroying work.
posted by Mitheral at 7:41 AM on December 8, 2020 [12 favorites]
5-15mls a day and visible in the grout is absolutely enough to start and sustain rot and mould. As a rule of thumb if you can see moisture on the surface from a leak your framing is being damaged. A little leak like your describing will wick into mating surfaces (like between sub flooring and joists) and then just sit there doing it's evil house destroying work.
posted by Mitheral at 7:41 AM on December 8, 2020 [12 favorites]
I wouldn't rent from you if I knew this was an issue.
Since you say you plan on renting the place out, consider how my statement above might affect your success.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Since you say you plan on renting the place out, consider how my statement above might affect your success.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
If I understand correctly, you are planning to rent this place out before you renovate and fix the toilet issue? As a tenant, no way am I ok with cleaning up leaking toilet water "a few times a day".
As a landlord, I can safely assure you that if your tenant doesn’t immediately start blowing your phone up about a tiny leak, the first time you’ll hear about the leak escalating is when the the floor rots our and the bathroom
collapses into the next floor. There is no world where a tenant both puts up with a slow annoying leak but also inform you when that “slow” leak transitions into a fucking disaster.
posted by sideshow at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
As a landlord, I can safely assure you that if your tenant doesn’t immediately start blowing your phone up about a tiny leak, the first time you’ll hear about the leak escalating is when the the floor rots our and the bathroom
collapses into the next floor. There is no world where a tenant both puts up with a slow annoying leak but also inform you when that “slow” leak transitions into a fucking disaster.
posted by sideshow at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
If a new toilet will fix this, then ask them to pay for an install a new one. It's not much money (a cheap toilet is like $150) and placing one is like 20 minutes of work. Tell them to fix this. Offer to pay for half or buy a toilet and have them install it. It should not leak if a moderately competent home owner installed it - no way it should leak if a pro is fixing it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:10 AM on December 8, 2020
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:10 AM on December 8, 2020
Sunk costs: the bad plumbing job. That plumber is not the one you want. Get a new toilet, as The_Vegetables suggests, and have a reputable plumbing company replace the old toilet.
If money's really too tight you could even do the replacement job yourself (replace the flexible pipe too while you're at it), it's easy handy-man stuff, but having a reputable company do it ensures follow-up if there are problems.
posted by anadem at 8:16 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
If money's really too tight you could even do the replacement job yourself (replace the flexible pipe too while you're at it), it's easy handy-man stuff, but having a reputable company do it ensures follow-up if there are problems.
posted by anadem at 8:16 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
A leaking toilet slowly destroying the structural framing underneath it is well into "slumload" territory.
posted by bdc34 at 8:38 AM on December 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by bdc34 at 8:38 AM on December 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
They didn’t do the job right. I think this job involves unscrewing the base , picking up and moving the toilet (heavy!), removing the old wax seal, seating a new one, and putting everything back together. If the leak is really coming from the seal and not a cracked toilet, that’s their mistake. Have you tried drying everything and setting down paper towels to isolate the exact source? That’s worked for me.
posted by freecellwizard at 8:39 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by freecellwizard at 8:39 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is absolutely not normal or acceptable. Don't let the guy fob you off.
posted by Omnomnom at 8:47 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 8:47 AM on December 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Just this week I helped with a toilet that was leaking 'a little'. When it was removed the closet flange had rusted away and requires a much more expensive fix.
posted by zenon at 8:49 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by zenon at 8:49 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
A new toilet may retail for $150, but the plumber will charge you $700 for the honor of bringing it to you and installing it. I know this the hard way (cracked tank + aged valve, I was at work, pretty much had no choice).
So you could buy a new toilet yourself and get them to install it, or even install it yourself (easy, really) but I'm not yet convinced that's the problem here.
Agree with jon1270 and Mitheral et al. above: a small leak is not ignorable. Just be glad it's small where you can see it and do something about it; small leaks you can't actually see are the worst case scenario.
posted by Dashy at 8:50 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
So you could buy a new toilet yourself and get them to install it, or even install it yourself (easy, really) but I'm not yet convinced that's the problem here.
Agree with jon1270 and Mitheral et al. above: a small leak is not ignorable. Just be glad it's small where you can see it and do something about it; small leaks you can't actually see are the worst case scenario.
posted by Dashy at 8:50 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you end up using different plumbers, be sure to leave an appropriately honest review of the original ones.
posted by aramaic at 11:41 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aramaic at 11:41 AM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this something I *really* need to fix? Or can I just wipe it up when I notice it a few times a day and leave the damn thing for a year?
1) Yes, it is something you really need to fix.
2) Waiting a year will just give you a much more expensive problem to fix. You're doing the opposite of saving money, here.
posted by desuetude at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
1) Yes, it is something you really need to fix.
2) Waiting a year will just give you a much more expensive problem to fix. You're doing the opposite of saving money, here.
posted by desuetude at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
If the toilet is leaking regularly, even if the toilet is not being flushed, then the problem is not the bottom seal. The leak is coming from the tank, supply line or there is a crack in the bowl itself.
posted by JackFlash at 2:01 PM on December 8, 2020
posted by JackFlash at 2:01 PM on December 8, 2020
You can get a brand new landlord-grade toilet for $100 at Home Depot. Add a new wax ring for $5, and an hour of your time and the toilet is replaced and the leak is gone!
I think you need a lot more knowledge of basic house repairs before you even consider gutting and renovating a house.
posted by monotreme at 2:17 PM on December 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think you need a lot more knowledge of basic house repairs before you even consider gutting and renovating a house.
posted by monotreme at 2:17 PM on December 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
You need to get this fixed. As others said, if you do not get this fixed, the slow leak will slowly destroy the entire bathroom floor. After your water is back on, threaten to file BBB complaint and write reviews warning your neighbors away from the company on every possible platform if the plumber doesn't come back and finish the job.
If nothing you do can get the plumber to come back and fix this properly, as others mentioned, it is possible to replace a toilet and/or the the wax seal on the base of a toilet yourself (I have done it myself twice). It's an annoying and filthy job but you could do it. I'd recommend recruiting your boyfriend or someone else in your existing social bubble to help, though, because it's easier to lift a toilet without dropping and breaking it when you have a helper.
posted by BlueJae at 2:46 PM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
If nothing you do can get the plumber to come back and fix this properly, as others mentioned, it is possible to replace a toilet and/or the the wax seal on the base of a toilet yourself (I have done it myself twice). It's an annoying and filthy job but you could do it. I'd recommend recruiting your boyfriend or someone else in your existing social bubble to help, though, because it's easier to lift a toilet without dropping and breaking it when you have a helper.
posted by BlueJae at 2:46 PM on December 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Call a different plumber. Pay their bill. Depending on the amount of $$, pay a lawyer to send a bill to the old plumber for that amount, with a strongly worded letter.
Or, yeah, replacing a toilet is pretty easy. Probably easier and cheaper than any other way, and if you're going to be gutting a house, this will probably be the easiest, cheapest part of it.
posted by nosila at 11:51 AM on December 9, 2020
Or, yeah, replacing a toilet is pretty easy. Probably easier and cheaper than any other way, and if you're going to be gutting a house, this will probably be the easiest, cheapest part of it.
posted by nosila at 11:51 AM on December 9, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
Ask me how I know.
posted by mhoye at 6:08 AM on December 8, 2020 [54 favorites]