Boyfriends kids up everynight
December 7, 2020 5:04 AM   Subscribe

I am a light sleeper after about five hours of sleep, but I really need eight hours of sleep. My boyfriend's kids wake up at 2 or 3 am most nights, and I can't get back to sleep. We have been looking at houses together, but after a trial of staying with them for two weeks, I feel sick and miserable from lack of sleep. Should I give up on this?

I am a light sleeper. I am very stressed about covid for complicated, real reasons. In general, both partner and I have complicated lives that are often and uncontrollably stressful for real reasons, so I don't think this will end with the pandemic. Partner is a kind, funny, sweet man that I adore being with. We have been looking at moving in together in the next couple months in a home we purchase together. But his kids are up everynight they're in the home (4/7 nights a week). To get water, to go to the bathroom, because of a nightmare. They are 9 and 12. I have a 6 year old who sleeps through the night unless he's sick. Boyfriends kids are sweet and fun but they are in the habit of getting up and screaming for their dad in the middle of the night, everynight. He's talked to them, and the screaming and water trips have reduced. Instead they're going to the bathroom for 20 mins to fill this void. I find this to be a total deal breaker, because I need sleep to function, but have never been able to fall back asleep at 3:30. I've had loud neighbors in the past, and tried five kinds of sleep meds with support from my doctor and meditation and excercise. None of these things have worked for me. I just need a quiet place to sleep at night. Maybe I should avoid dating anyone else with kids? Is this normal in other homes?
posted by Kalmya to Human Relations (28 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
I don't know what the budget for your house hunt is, but would separate wings for you and the partner work? Either he and you in one wing and the kids in the other, or if you don't want that, he and his kids in one and you and yours in another? It feels weird to suggest that, like you're trying to stash them away, but if you get along outside of sleeping, and just have different needs, maybe the "quiet wing" and "night owl wing" might be a nicer way to phrase this?
posted by LoonyLovegood at 5:10 AM on December 7, 2020 [4 favorites]


This is fixable problem but it may not be quick. Can you purchase a home that has an extra bedroom further away than his and the kids for when you need your space and quiet? Moving in together doesn't have to be sleeping in the exact same bed every single night. Trying to rush kids into a new habit isn't a good idea and they may resent you for it, but it doesn't mean you should give up on taking good care of yourself!
posted by waving at 5:11 AM on December 7, 2020 [9 favorites]


I find it odd you’re going from “noisy kids” to “date other people.” There’s a whole range of solutions in between like a house with wings, a duplex, condos in the same building, apartments in the same complex, or dating but still not living together. Some of these may be more viable financially than others but I wonder if there are other issues?

For normal, my oldest got up in the night until he was about 10, but now that he’s a teen he sleeps the sleep of the dead. My youngest has been a better sleeper since he was a toddler. But they weren’t those ages and going through divorce or a global pandemic.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:18 AM on December 7, 2020 [29 favorites]


Maybe *right now* (when you say you are already stressed out about non-relationship things) is not the time to move in together? Is your relationship at "we move in together or we break up?" Does it have to be?
posted by mskyle at 5:19 AM on December 7, 2020 [8 favorites]


This is temporary. As warriorqueen says, in a couple of years these kids are going to sleep for like 18 hours of the day if you let them.

In the meantime though, either for this or any other reason, you have to want to buy the whole bf-plus-kids package enthusiastically or it isn't going to work for anyone.
posted by rd45 at 5:20 AM on December 7, 2020 [4 favorites]


They probably won't be doing this forever, and may in fact abandon it within a couple of years. Can you afford a house which has a guest bedroom that you could sleep in, which is reasonably far from the kids and can be sound insulated? That plus earplugs and/or white noise would reduce the amount of noise you hear triggering you to wake up. Otherwise, just don't move in together until they are older and have stopped doing this.

You may feel like they are doing this to annoy you or to try and prevent you and your partner living together. Even if that is the actual reason, you have to treat it not personally (hard when you're sleep deprived). They are children, they are sometimes obnoxious, but they are part of the deal. Over the next decade they are going to grow and change a lot, and this particular behaviour will stop.
posted by plonkee at 5:24 AM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]


Earplugs is one solution that comes immediately to mind, as are separate bedrooms and perhaps simply continuing to date but not move in together.

Here's what's jumping out at me from this post. With your kids being the age they are, moving in together is an opportunity for you and your boyfriend to intentionally and actively work at creating a blended family unit. But from what you're saying in this post, it does not sound like you are not approaching this move-in with this mindset.

I'm not even talking about obvious strangeness of you jumping to "should we just break up and date other people" - I mean, it's really concerning but I can totally understand might be the result of your being sleep-deprived and not quite thinking straight. I've been there. Sleep deprivation can make us lose our access to our forebrains entirely. When I had a new baby and was sleep deprived, I could easily have considered not just breaking up with my husband but literally murdering him. You have my sympathies here.

No, I'm talking about the fact that you frame the sleep issues as serious lifestyle incompatibilities with your boyfriend's children - not as "something we might all work on together as our first challenge living together as a new blended family" or "inevitable adjustment hiccups as we become a blended family" or even "ugh omg children can be so annoying and it's just worse in a blended family". I'm pointing out to you that you don't seem to consider this to be a blended family situation. That aspect is totally absent from your post. You're seeing this as a "girlfriend moves in with boyfriend" situation; you see your two families are still separate families and in your mind they are 100% "his" children and your kid is 100% your kid... though if you're at the stage of moving in together, I would expect to see something like 80%-20% or 70%-30% split by now, a certain level of belonging together and responsibility for each other's children as the baseline already.

So I have to wonder if moving in together with your kids is wise? Kids don't tend to understand moving in as a "trial run", they usually interpret it as "new family". This holds true even when you explain things to them. Their brains at the age of 6 or 9 or even 12 are not developed enough to fully comprehend adult relationship nuances.

Please understand, I'm not trying to attack you at all, just bringing up my thoughts for your consideration. I think the stakes are pretty high for potential upheaval for the kids if you and your bf are not keeping the creation of belonging together as a blended family at the forefront of both your minds.

And for you both to keep it at the forefront of your minds, you both would have to be 100% committed to each other... which may or may not be the case for you (sleep deprivation notwithstanding). I guess that's the central question here. Are you both actually interested in creating a blended family (yet)?

How is my comment hitting you? Do you feel like my read on this is way off mark? Or do some aspects resonate with you, perhaps?
posted by MiraK at 6:08 AM on December 7, 2020 [34 favorites]


What are they doing in the bathroom at night that’s causing problems for you? Are they talking? Are they banging things around, loudly opening/closing doors?

Many adults have trouble sleeping through the night, and get up one or more times to use the bathroom or get a drink of water. I’m mentioning this mostly because I feel like if you want to potentially live with a partner in the long term, you may need to come up with workable strategies for navigating this kind of situation. If you otherwise really love your boyfriend and get along with his kids, I’d keep working to find a solution for getting a good night’s sleep, as this is very likely to be an issue in any household in the future. Including your own, as your son gets older.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 6:56 AM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]


It sounds like the noise from the kids' bedrooms and the bathroom is what's keeping you awake. Can you find a house where the bathroom and kids' rooms are less audible from where you are sleeping? A remote-ish guest bedroom is one idea, as listed above, but the real problem might be that you are a bit on top of each other. Most houses are going to be laid out so that this is an issue, but a super great real estate agent might be able to help you with this.

Also - eventually they may start doing stuff in the kitchen, so look for noises that could come from there too.

It's good for the kids, too, to be able to be active without worrying about disturbing either of you.
posted by amtho at 7:19 AM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]


I think I heard Dan Savage once say that we think of marriage as the big commitment, but it’s really moving in together that’s bigger. Once you’re living together, it’s a lot harder to disentangle. And it sounds like you’d be combining finances, which is also a much bigger thing to undo.

I think there are lots of creative solutions that don’t involve breaking up. Is Dad totally fine with the getting up? I’m concerned that you pushing him to parent differently could drive a wedge between you all.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:23 AM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: To clarify: they have been getting up in the middle of the night for their entire lives. It's a time when their parents consistently provide them with emotional support and both parents go right back to sleep. This was never a boundary that was set, and boyfriend feels he is providing necessary emotional in some ways by being in close proximity. As a semi step parent, I do not think it's on me to decide when and how kids would get sleep trained or take the lead in it. So basically, he purposefully supports them at night as is ok with the status quo of up most nights at 2 or 3 and considers it normal/unremarkable. He does just go right back to sleep and then sleep in. He wants to support them in case they do have a nightmare. I think it's reasonable and understand how he got there. There are bigger issues that make me understand why he's hesitant to draw a boundary he doesn't need. I could potentially sleep in a different duplex or in a basement but that would potentially separate me from everyone, and that seems semipointless compared to living separately. I do feel sad to consider never sleeping with my partner but this seems like as big a deal to me as, wants kids, never wants kids. Needs to sleep at night. Needs to comfort kids at night. I would imagine this to continue for the next eight years, but I obviously don't know.
posted by Kalmya at 7:23 AM on December 7, 2020


Well just thinking this through - I'm guessing he has full custody and that's why you're saying never sleep together at night?

Personally I would put off moving in together for say, 18 months, and look at a plan to get from A to B. For our kids, it was pretty natural to give them a pat, talk about their dream, and maybe let them snuggle in with us. But I can see how that wouldn't work for you. And at 12 years old in particular, the end is probably right in sight, if not solveable through a fairly simple series of conversations, and at 6, there's lots and lots of ways to work on it. It's not a crazy request if it's not like "solve this in three weeks or we're through."

It's interesting that in your own way, you're saying that sleeping with your boyfriend is a massive big huge deal (despite your sleep issues) worth ending the relationship over.

I see a lot of black and white thinking in your post and follow up, which may speak to your sleep deprivation. But it also sounds to me like you are talking yourself out of this relationship, so I wonder if there are a lot of other areas where your needs are not met. The idea that you and your boyfriend can't talk about it together and come up with ideas suggests to me that like MiraK kind of said, it's just not time to be moving in.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:32 AM on December 7, 2020 [10 favorites]


I remember being a kid. Sometimes rituals changed as I got older. Night-screaming is the sort of thing they're going to have to grow out of at some point.

If it is a deal-breaker for you, then that's what you tell him. "Hey boyfriend, I won't live with screaming children every night" and then if he really wants to be with you, before you move in together he will find other ways to meet the emotional need that is currently being met by night-screaming. Or he won't and you'll move on.
posted by aniola at 7:57 AM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]


Don't make any big decisions right now. Just don't.

It's been a terrible, terrible year that has exacerbated everyone's anxieties and frailties. And on top of that you're dealing with awful sleep deprivation in an emotionally loaded context...

Don't move in together. Don't break up (unless you're super tired of him and really sure.) Don't, for the love of God, make demands of him or them. Just make the moves that keep you all most comfortable FOR NOW. Stay in your own place. Let them stay in their place.

(Make sure nobody tells the kids that the plans have changed because of their night issues! Just say "we're going to put this off for now.")

Be kind to each other and see where you are in a year. The kids' habits may well have changed. Your priorities may have changed. Hell even your budget for soundproofing may have changed. It will be ok.

(I'm assuming btw that there's no timeline for you, like a biological clock ticking. If there is, I'd let this go. His kids need to come first and that's a bad foundation for you.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:58 AM on December 7, 2020 [28 favorites]


I am a light-sleeper Mom of a 7 year old, with lifelong anxiety, insomnia that started at age 8, and lifelong challenges with being hypersensitive to noise or stimulation at night. Once my brain is awake, it turns on, and once it turns on, it's difficult-to-impossible to shut it off again. I have tried medication, meditation, melatonin, sleep hygiene (which actually makes it worse because then I just have all these things I "can't" do so I am even more stressed and anxious), etc. I say all this just to set the stage to say that....

...virtually every night I sleep with headphones playing white noise. In a recent massive QOL update, I can now actually play the white noise and an audiobook or podcast one of my knocks-me-out TV shows like Miss Marple in my headphones at the same time. This objectively improves my sleep quality - I can look at my Fitbit and see higher 'sleep scores,' fewer wakeups, etc. I feel more rested.

It's not my first choice because I mean honestly something could happen at night that I need to hear and wake up. But, it's better than the physical and mental health effects of too little sleep! My son knows I have headphones on so he needs to come get me if he needs me. The white noise/verbal combo is not so loud that I can't hear at least some of the smoke detectors through it (I tested!). And, my husband, who does not sleep in any way that impedes hearing, is also aware that I may not hear and he needs to be responsive.

Earphones might not work for you - comfort, safety concerns, etc. But they are my saving grace so I thought I'd throw that out there as something that you could potentially try when you visit boyfriend's home. The particular app I found that allows me to use other apps to listen to audiobooks, podcasts or TV at the same time is Relax Melodies - not all apps allow this. I am picky, this one has high-quality noises, lots of customization.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 8:06 AM on December 7, 2020 [5 favorites]


As I see it:

- You are a light sleeper or once up cannot go back to sleep
- Your partner's kids, for reasons, seek his attention at 2am ish which wakes you up.
- You understand and appreciate why your partner is willing to put up with pre-teens not sleeping through the night.
- your child sleeps through the night
- You do not think you can change your ability to go back to sleep.
- You need much more sleep than you are getting when sleeping with your partner and his kids.

I see there being no overlapping scenario whereby you get your sleep and the kids get their late night attention. Unless one of you, you or the kids/partner, are willing to change. What I fear is that this will build up resentment by you of the kids for either crushing your sleep or interfering with your relationship. As a divorced father of three, I highly suggest not letting the kids get in the middle of this.

I also do not think a two week trial is going to bring you much closer to the way it would be long-term. For one, your very presence at this point could be causing the kids to compete for their father's attention. With time, when they see you as not a threat, they may stop their late night runs.

I do not see a short-term (3 months?) solution that will work immediately. I do think if you can build a relationship with your partner's children that demonstrates to them that you are you and not seeking to cut them off from their father (of course you're not!) they will wean themselves of the late night attention seeking if they appreciate how it affects your sleep.

Fwiw, I happen to think a 9 and 12 year old should be able to sleep through the night. If it were me, I would have worked on that when they were 1 or so, but hey, not your circus. I do fall into the category that it is never too late to learn.

There is always going to be a period of adjustment. A two week trial is meaningless to me because your family's very presence in a new blended house can be causing anxiety all over. I think time and maybe some artificial solutions like headphones will eventually eliminate the conflict.

I do not know if there is a good solution to the problem. I do think if everyone involved is willing and able to work on it, a reasonable medium can be achieved. Good luck. Get some rest!
posted by AugustWest at 8:36 AM on December 7, 2020 [4 favorites]


I am so sorry you are dealing with lack of sleep. I sound a lot like you in the light sleep department. For me, a few days of subpar sleep for me and I dive into depression with suicidal ideation. So, I understand the seriousness of sleep issues. Sleep being interrupted in such a manner as you have described sounds anxiety-inducing and frustrating.

I have three children and a husband. We live in a smallish house (one-story) where I hear absolutely everything. It used to be I'd hear my kids crying or needing me when they were younger (to which I mostly happily complied and I was grateful I could be there for them). Now, they are teenagers and they all keep the weirdest hours so do not rely on "they'll grow out of it" or "pretty soon they'll be teenagers and sleeping like the dead". Maybe they sleep like the dead from 8 am - 11 am, but they're up all freaking night, banging around - going to the bathroom (forgetting that the bathroom door slams shut by itself, dropping the toilet seat), doing stuff in the kitchen (where certain cabinets bang shut rather loudly), etc. It is an absolute source of frustration and frankly, anger, for me.

On top of that, my husband snores. And if he's not snoring, he's just regular breathing, which is still way too loud for my light sleeping.

I've often said that if my marriage fell apart I would never ever ever in a billion million years live with someone ever again (of course I don't mean my children) UNLESS I had my own room tucked away or even better some sort of mother-in-law quarters or shed out back that was my own space away from the normal ebb and flow of the household at night.

I just wanted to say all of that to let you know you are not alone or weird or out of bounds putting your sleep health as a priority. I am completely useless, angry, frustrated, emotional, when I don't get somewhat decent sleep.

So, on to some things that have helped, although it's far from perfect. I have a little speaker right by my side of the bed where I play "brown" noise (similar to white noise). And I make it loud-ish. I have a ceiling fan running. I have the room pretty chilly. I use a weighted blanket. I sleep with a pillow over my head (muffling any extra sounds that might want to seep in). I burrow. I take doxylamine succinate each night as a sleep aid. It doesn't help a ton, but often does make me fuzzy headed enough that when I do wake up I'm sometimes able to ignore the thoughts that I want to grab onto and then get back to sleep. I'm currently not working, so a crappy night doesn't affect me quite as much and allows me to sleep in a bit if the night was awful. When I was working, I was able to adjust my start time to give me some extra wiggle room in the sleeping in department.

But, even with those suggestions, that doesn't take away that the kids tend to by pretty loud to get their dad's attention - so even if the master bedroom was far away from the kids, they're just going to be as loud as needed to get his attention. Although, when they wake on their own and tend to themselves (going to the bathroom), a room far from their area would help.

If you're pretty decided on living together, is there an option where you can have your own bedroom that is quite far from the kids' living space? And your boyfriend could have a room/bed that is close to the kids' living space so that he can tend the kids at night as necessary without disrupting your sleep? And this would only need to be employed when your boyfriend has the kids. All the other times, ya'll could sleep together in the same room/bed. But for times when he has the kids - he sleeps near them and you are burrowed away in a bedroom far far away. Please don't be weirded out by having separate bedrooms. People do this all the time for a variety of reasons, many relating to sleep issues. It's ok to do this. It doesn't mean you have to spend all of your time in your own room separate from everyone else. It's just for when you're sleeping. It's ok to do that.
posted by Sassyfras at 8:36 AM on December 7, 2020 [5 favorites]


I could potentially sleep in a different duplex or in a basement but that would potentially separate me from everyone, and that seems semipointless compared to living separately. I do feel sad to consider never sleeping with my partner

I get why you would be sad about this, especially since there can be a lot of cultural pressure around the idea that sleeping separately means that you’re not really a successful couple. But. You have to sleep. Sleep deprivation will destroy your life, leaving you unable to enjoy your waking hours with your partner. My partner and I sleep separately and it has worked out really well, hanging out in bed together and then moving off to our separate sanctuaries for the part of the night where we’re actually unconscious.

If you do end up going this route, I would advise framing it to the kids in a way that does not cast them as the source of the problem. If he is getting up to support them every night and does not want that to change, there are probably very solid reasons behind that.
posted by corey flood at 9:23 AM on December 7, 2020 [4 favorites]


Since "screaming and water trips have reduced," could they reduce more over time? Also, is it possible that there could be designated "take care of self" nights when the kids know they can't disturb you both, and other nights when you sleep apart?

It sounds like there might be a creative and effective solution that _involves the kids_ and will _be unusual_ but could work.

You absolutely shouldn't compromise on your sleep, but since you said they've already adjusted a little, that gives me hope.

If you're having a hard time talking about this with your boyfriend -- understandable -- maybe getting a therapist involved for a couple of sessions will help resolve this one way or another.
posted by amtho at 10:15 AM on December 7, 2020


Have you tried dampening the noise where it's being made and on your end? If there was a white-noise machine in the bathroom so them moving around wouldn't break the silence as much, and another white noise machine in your bedroom and ear plugs in your ears, might that help? If the relationship is otherwise great, it seems sad to move directly to breaking up before trying everything up to and including a new house layout. I think it may be worthwhile to work on it because the idea that anyone else you partner with will provide nighttime silence, even without kids, is perhaps too optimistic.

To give you an example, I had a noisy cat who liked to talk to me right when I started sleeping lightly around that hour. As my sleep got worse as I got older, I had to layer earplugs with a dehumidifier, then when I got a husband who snored we added an air purifier, and when his allergies are bad, we put another white noise app on on the phone between us. It is now rare that I get woken up.
posted by *s at 10:16 AM on December 7, 2020 [1 favorite]


You need a separate bedroom and it sounds like you would need a second bedroom with almost any partner, because many people and their pets and their kids need to be able to get up and move around during the night. And your partner and his kids have a nighttime ritual that is important to them and works for them, and I think you're right not to want to get in the middle of that.

I would really encourage you to think about what you've said up there about being unsure what the point of living together is if you don't share a bed. Living together is about all the time you're awake together, much more so than the time you're asleep together. Sleeping can be an important bonding time too and I don't want to diminish it, but it's not the main reason to live with someone. It makes me wonder if that's your exhaustion talking, and maybe you need to put this whole conversation on hold until you're back in your own space and caught up on at least a solid week of sleep.

It also wouldn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing, if you did move in together and have your own, more distant bedroom. You never getting a full night's sleep again is not reasonable or okay. But if it's worth it to you to sometimes have interrupted sleep to share bed space with your partner, maybe you share a bed on weekends or every other night or you make a point of taking naps together or climbing in bed together for morning or pre-bed snuggles, or whatever would work for all of you. But you always have a quiet room to retreat to on nights when you're extra tired or have a big work day coming up or whatever. As they get older perhaps the balance of time in each place would shift, but you'd have the option.

There are a lot of ways that this could work out but I don't think you should rush into any of them at a time when everyone involved is stressed out. Let it take the time it takes to work with a realtor to find a space that will work for all of you, and/or put the whole thing on the back burner for a while.
posted by Stacey at 10:21 AM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]


OP, your update is concerning because of the dire and catastrophic terms you are using in interpreting this situation.

I mean, as cohabitation issues (and indeed life issues) go, this is as mundane as it gets. Even if your boyfriend's children were perfect sleeping angels all through every night, that would not guarantee you a life free of sleep-deprivation! Your own daughter could start sleepwalking next year. You yourself could develop night terrors so that you wake yourself with your own screaming every night. ANY partner you choose to be with could start snoring very loudly ... a few months after you get married. If you eschewed all human companionship and only had a cat, that cat could develop health issues that caused mewing and scratching all night.

Your sleep deprivation is a result of being a human who is living with other creatures, not the result of being with the wrong partner.

A healthy response on your part would be to find a way to get your sleep needs met - using conversation, negotiation, creative tools, medical help, and making personal adjustments (including adjusting your own expectations of what your life will be like when you are part of a blended family where other people's needs must co-exist with your own).

Are you sure you want to be in this relationship at all? Because it seems like you're using a flimsy excuse to get out of it...
posted by MiraK at 10:24 AM on December 7, 2020 [7 favorites]


My husband and I never agreed about putting our kid to sleep. He basically vowed to stay with them until they fell asleep for as many years as it took to become a habit for them to fall asleep easily. My friends, that virtually never happened.

You are not being mean to your partner nor their children by reporting the situation and dispassionately asking about potential solutions. Since I split with my husband many years ago, I have been literally unable to get a wink of sleep with anyone else in my bed. Does this make me sad? It makes me very sad. Does that change the reality that I only get to sleep in a bed alone? No, it does not. I am also a light sleeper bothered by the noise. I find it easier to go to sleep and easier to go back to sleep by listening to podcasts at a very low volume. But earplugs do not do it for me and haven’t although I have used many different types.

I am on team separate bedroom. My advice would be to continue living apart and to schedule a vacation with the entire family (once that becomes possible) at a place that has bedrooms far apart from one another to see if it’s actually possible for you to sleep through the night in the same home with your partner and partner’s children.

If for some bizarre reason, living with these folks meant you could only ever get 500 calories of food a day, everyone would understand that you needed to live apart to get all the nutrients you need. Sleep is no different. Sleep research continues to demonstrate just how important it is to our health. It is super important.
posted by Bella Donna at 10:25 AM on December 7, 2020 [3 favorites]


one more thing - as someone who does sleep perfectly happily most of the time w my spouse: I *often* retreat to my study to sleep at night, for noise or other reasons. (Snoring; my own wakefulness; cold sniffles; whatever.) I... actually love it a lot. I get the BEST sleep there, by far.

I have also found that having my own study (with bed!) has done wonders for my marriage and family life in general. Too long to go into here, but trust. It's fantastic.

So my vote is, back off this current move-in for now; but also, when you do move in with him or whomever, find a place that has a separate room for you with a comfy bed, at the back of the house or wherever is most likely to be soundproofable. Even just the knowledge that you have a private place to retreat to is a huge de-stressor for all kinds of family friction.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2020 [9 favorites]


I could potentially sleep in a different duplex or in a basement but that would potentially separate me from everyone, and that seems semipointless compared to living separately. I do feel sad to consider never sleeping with my partner

Well, there's another way to solve this problem. You said his kids are there 4/7 nights each week. On the three nights they aren't there, he sleeps in the bed with you, in the master bedroom. On the nights the kids are there, he sleeps in a second twin bed in one of their rooms. Maybe that would even prevent them from the night terrors; maybe they won't need to scream if he's close by. He can say, "Daddy's here. Get yourself some water and get back to bed, and I'll be right here."

Since you are buying a new house together, see if you can find a house where that set-up makes sense (ideally, where there's separation between the master bedroom and the kids' bedrooms). You all could experiment -- perhaps after he gets the kids back to sleep, he could return to the master bedroom, if that didn't wake you up.

Maybe I should avoid dating anyone else with kids? Is this normal in other homes?
This question makes me think you really are super sleep-deprived or maybe you are just done. I'm not sure it matters what's "normal." Also, to be clear, you know that your kid sleeping through the night doesn't necessarily reflect on you or on better parenting, right? My parents thought they were doing a bang up job as parents when my sister slept through the night from a very young age... and then they had me, the story goes. Yes, these kids are in a habit and routine, but changing these sorts of things takes time, and it doesn't sound like your partner is particularly stressed about changing this up.

These could be good conversations for you all to have. Can you work through some ideas on this? Your sleep is important, and his kids are important. I think you all can find a way, if you want. But it's also okay if you are just done.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:19 PM on December 7, 2020 [2 favorites]


I'm really surprised by the number of people downplaying the issue. I would be going wild in your position. It is absolutely not normal for a twelve-year-old to be completely incapable of soothing themselves back to sleep. After a super bad nightmare? That's normal. Every night? No. Not normal. This kind of sleep training is counter-productive for the kids in the long term.

I do think it is a good idea to consider sleeping apart, with the caveat that you test this in an AirBnB or similar first. It's also operating under the assumption that (a) them moving around in other parts of the house doesn't bother you and (b) you have the funds to afford somewhere big enough to accommodate all the different sleeping and living needs.

If that's not a feasible solution . . . then yeah, I don't see a way to not break up either unless you eschew living together. Like another commenter said, nobody would tell you to stay in a relationship where you could only eat 500 calories a day. Sleep is a biological need. I don't think this means you can't date anyone with kids though, because again, let me emphasize that the way your boyfriend and his ex have sleep-trained these kids is not normal. It is very unlikely future beaus with children will have a dynamic that works like your current boyfriend's.
posted by Anonymous at 4:26 PM on December 7, 2020


High-end comfortable wireless noise cancelling headphones like Bose or equivalent, plus noise app on phone - then experiment to find best soothing and effective sound mix. If you're a side sleeper, a J shaped travel pillow can accommodate the headphones if they are closed cans (works for me). If noise is the issue, this will work. I slept through thundersnow with this set up.
posted by Flitcraft at 6:54 PM on December 7, 2020


It is absolutely not normal for a twelve-year-old to be completely incapable of soothing themselves back to sleep. After a super bad nightmare? That's normal. Every night? No. Not normal.

It's the OP who isn't capable of going back to sleep (which is not her fault!!) actually. I mean, I do think the needle can and probably should gradually move for the kids at night (and it sounds like it has) but it's really unfair to pathologize the kids when basically everyone is having nighttime issues.

I think it's going to take a team approach and/or a creative use of space, or time.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:26 PM on December 7, 2020 [8 favorites]


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