Minor behavior weirdness with new puppers
November 28, 2020 4:46 PM Subscribe
My sixish year old rescue Max is a very good doggo. He's got a lot of fast twitch energy but when he's indoors he's incredibly loving, cuddly, and sweet. But at odd times - usually if he's resting/laying down - if someone approaches him, he shows his teeth.
He feels bad and penitent as soon as he does it. It's not a big deal - he has a right to his self determination - but I'd like to find a loving way to work on this. It has never, ever escalated - just a quick teeth baring. Sometimes even while he's doing it he wavers like he knows he's not supposed to. Has anyone had a doggo like this and do you know how I can work on it with him with kindness?
He feels bad and penitent as soon as he does it. It's not a big deal - he has a right to his self determination - but I'd like to find a loving way to work on this. It has never, ever escalated - just a quick teeth baring. Sometimes even while he's doing it he wavers like he knows he's not supposed to. Has anyone had a doggo like this and do you know how I can work on it with him with kindness?
Response by poster: Yep, really only when he’s curled on the couch or ground. I think he’s half sight hound - not big enough to be greyhound but maybe Italian greyhound or whippet.
posted by ftm at 5:16 PM on November 28, 2020
posted by ftm at 5:16 PM on November 28, 2020
We never solved the growling issue. We had her for a couple of months before it started and we just avoided getting low when she was laying down. Oddly, if she was laying in her crate, she wouldn't growl. I wish I could offer some solution but, outside our experience, yours is the first time I have ever seen this particular behavior mentioned.
posted by bz at 6:18 PM on November 28, 2020
posted by bz at 6:18 PM on November 28, 2020
Rewire Max's expectations. Always approach with a treat.
posted by aniola at 6:45 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 6:45 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
There is a reason why they say "let sleeping dogs lie.". He probably just doesn't want to be bothered. If you have a reason to approach him when he's laying down, I would second the idea of doing it with a treat. If you do it consistently, you might be able to train him out of it.
posted by soy_renfield at 7:44 PM on November 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by soy_renfield at 7:44 PM on November 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
If he's resting, he could well just not be concentrating on what is going on around him. He also looks a little older so maybe eyesight & hearing is less good that it was. If he's a reactive quick twitch dog he could well be reacting instinctively before he's realised it's friend not foe. Throw in if he's laying down as you approach humans are so much bigger & scarier.
I'd get in the habit of getting his attention first & getting an invite to approach. A simple "Hey Max" and making sure you have his attention. Then read his body language. Is he looking away & licking his lips he probably would rather be left alone, if he's not a relaxed face & you get a friendly thump of the tail it's all good.
Oh another thing sudden reactions like that could also be caused by pain, from things like arthritis or a sore tooth or an injury and a worry you're going to accidently make it hurt more.
I have a reactive dog that was bossed around a lot in his first house by other dogs & it took years to get him to not react by snapping when startled. Friendly interruptions with lots of warning & love when he reacted calmly got us there in the end.
Also PS great for understanding dogs need some self determination.
posted by wwax at 7:47 PM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'd get in the habit of getting his attention first & getting an invite to approach. A simple "Hey Max" and making sure you have his attention. Then read his body language. Is he looking away & licking his lips he probably would rather be left alone, if he's not a relaxed face & you get a friendly thump of the tail it's all good.
Oh another thing sudden reactions like that could also be caused by pain, from things like arthritis or a sore tooth or an injury and a worry you're going to accidently make it hurt more.
I have a reactive dog that was bossed around a lot in his first house by other dogs & it took years to get him to not react by snapping when startled. Friendly interruptions with lots of warning & love when he reacted calmly got us there in the end.
Also PS great for understanding dogs need some self determination.
posted by wwax at 7:47 PM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
He is so cute. Occasionally dogs bare their teeth in a submissive way- can you tell from other his body language that it's meant aggressively?
posted by pinochiette at 7:48 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by pinochiette at 7:48 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
My dearly departed Huggy would do this when her arthritis was bothering her.
posted by frumiousb at 11:08 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by frumiousb at 11:08 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Cute dog! Look into sleep aggression - it's a thing for dogs. It could be similar to that even if he isn't asleep. Try giving him plenty of space, and if you have to approach, an alert (like quietly saying his name, click your tongue, or a gentle command). He may be in pain (have you had his teeth checked?) or just be used to protecting himself in an unfriendly environment. He may need you to remind him that your home is friendly and you won't hurt him. Try a lot of time and patience, mostly saying his name and "good boy" in calm quiet voices, then pets or treats when he stops baring his teeth.
posted by Red Desk at 2:40 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Red Desk at 2:40 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Perhaps he is guarding his sleeping place? If so, this book may be of help.
posted by 10ch at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2020
posted by 10ch at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2020
How new is he? This may resolve itself as he gets more confident and trusting in you and your home, as long as you don't let it (or accidentally make it) escalate. Adorable pup, by the way!
Honestly I think the first step is to leave him alone when he's lying down, and if you must approach him to first say his name and talk to him sweetly and approach with a treat. Dogs aren't people, but at the same time think about how grouchy you would get if whenever you were relaxing, sleeping or not, you couldn't predict if someone is going to come over to you and touch you. And in a new home, even if they aren't going to touch you, you still have to be on alert because you don't quite know or trust them or the space yet.
As mentioned above, this is a known thing in greyhound circles. One of my current greyhounds was a return for this behavior (growling when approached while laying down) in a home with two small kids who could not be taught to just leave him alone. Also, the family placed his bed in front of a closet door so the kids had to walk over him to get to their closet (!!!). I doubt you are doing this but just to be clear - this is a terrible idea especially for a new dog. They need somewhere they can retreat to and feel safe, and unpredictable humans approaching or stepping over them is the opposite of feeling safe. We have no kids and plenty of space and so we took him in, and have never once had an issue with him growling aggressively. (He is a playful growler -- unusually vocal for a greyhound -- but that's a completely different energy and usually evolves into barking/rooing for funsies.) He had a crate when we first got him but now has beds all over the house and often will ask us for belly rubs when he's laying down. I can even rest my head on him and he loves it.
I think for some dogs they need their own space as a "home base" to feel confident and comfortable - does your pup have a crate that he likes, or even just a corner with a comfy bed he knows is his, where no one is ever allowed to bother him? I see in the picture he's on the couch; if you need to be able to use the couch you might have to keep him off the couch until this behavior is resolved. This would not be as a punishment, but beneficial to you and the dog. He can learn that his crate/bed/corner is where he should go if he doesn't want to be disturbed, and eventually you can let him on the couch.
posted by misskaz at 6:43 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Honestly I think the first step is to leave him alone when he's lying down, and if you must approach him to first say his name and talk to him sweetly and approach with a treat. Dogs aren't people, but at the same time think about how grouchy you would get if whenever you were relaxing, sleeping or not, you couldn't predict if someone is going to come over to you and touch you. And in a new home, even if they aren't going to touch you, you still have to be on alert because you don't quite know or trust them or the space yet.
As mentioned above, this is a known thing in greyhound circles. One of my current greyhounds was a return for this behavior (growling when approached while laying down) in a home with two small kids who could not be taught to just leave him alone. Also, the family placed his bed in front of a closet door so the kids had to walk over him to get to their closet (!!!). I doubt you are doing this but just to be clear - this is a terrible idea especially for a new dog. They need somewhere they can retreat to and feel safe, and unpredictable humans approaching or stepping over them is the opposite of feeling safe. We have no kids and plenty of space and so we took him in, and have never once had an issue with him growling aggressively. (He is a playful growler -- unusually vocal for a greyhound -- but that's a completely different energy and usually evolves into barking/rooing for funsies.) He had a crate when we first got him but now has beds all over the house and often will ask us for belly rubs when he's laying down. I can even rest my head on him and he loves it.
I think for some dogs they need their own space as a "home base" to feel confident and comfortable - does your pup have a crate that he likes, or even just a corner with a comfy bed he knows is his, where no one is ever allowed to bother him? I see in the picture he's on the couch; if you need to be able to use the couch you might have to keep him off the couch until this behavior is resolved. This would not be as a punishment, but beneficial to you and the dog. He can learn that his crate/bed/corner is where he should go if he doesn't want to be disturbed, and eventually you can let him on the couch.
posted by misskaz at 6:43 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
I don’t have any reason to believe this is what is happening here, but I’ll throw it out just in case: dogs can learn to “smile” from humans. It looks like a baring of the teeth. We had a dog that would do this, usually when we came home, and it clearly wasn’t aggression. I had to research it, and determined that was what was going on. From your description, I wouldn’t think that was what was going on, but it’s possible, and something to consider with other context clues.
posted by catatethebird at 8:01 AM on November 29, 2020
posted by catatethebird at 8:01 AM on November 29, 2020
It sounds like it may be resource guarding, which is usually fear based. Behavioral conditioning that people approaching = good thing is helpful and certainly can’t hurt even if the issue is medically related. It isn’t uncommon for dogs to be punished for showing discomfort the only way they can- by growling or showing their teeth.
There are some good resources out there on resource guarding- the book “mine! A practical guide to resource guarding in dogs” is frequently cited in dog circles. At the very least, you want to make sure that the circumstances where he is rewarded when people approach outnumber the times that he isn’t or the times that he has some negative consequence (such as having to move or be interacted with if he wants to be left alone). An easy first step is to simply find a treat that he really enjoys and say his name and toss it to him when you’re somewhat close but before he starts becoming obviously uncomfortable (this is called his threshold). What you want to do is watch closely for any sign of discomfort and gently push that boundary- by not crossing too far over it before you reward. So if he starts twitching or narrowing his eyes or moving his ears at 6 feet away, you would ideally stay 6.5 feet away but wouldn’t go any closer than 5.11 feet away. And you don’t want to correct him for growling- denying that communication means that he could become a silent biter as a last resort to show that he wants his boundaries respected.
If you can, work with a behavioralist to reduce his nervousness and discomfort. They are more than just dog trainers- they take advanced classes in science and animal behavior and psychology and are the ones you really want to work with for any kind of behavioral issues or challenges.
Get a good vet work up to make sure that he isn’t in pain that could be contributing to his touchiness. Treatments vary depending on the condition at root, but it’s almost always possible to make them more comfortable.
posted by shesaysgo at 8:30 PM on November 29, 2020
There are some good resources out there on resource guarding- the book “mine! A practical guide to resource guarding in dogs” is frequently cited in dog circles. At the very least, you want to make sure that the circumstances where he is rewarded when people approach outnumber the times that he isn’t or the times that he has some negative consequence (such as having to move or be interacted with if he wants to be left alone). An easy first step is to simply find a treat that he really enjoys and say his name and toss it to him when you’re somewhat close but before he starts becoming obviously uncomfortable (this is called his threshold). What you want to do is watch closely for any sign of discomfort and gently push that boundary- by not crossing too far over it before you reward. So if he starts twitching or narrowing his eyes or moving his ears at 6 feet away, you would ideally stay 6.5 feet away but wouldn’t go any closer than 5.11 feet away. And you don’t want to correct him for growling- denying that communication means that he could become a silent biter as a last resort to show that he wants his boundaries respected.
If you can, work with a behavioralist to reduce his nervousness and discomfort. They are more than just dog trainers- they take advanced classes in science and animal behavior and psychology and are the ones you really want to work with for any kind of behavioral issues or challenges.
Get a good vet work up to make sure that he isn’t in pain that could be contributing to his touchiness. Treatments vary depending on the condition at root, but it’s almost always possible to make them more comfortable.
posted by shesaysgo at 8:30 PM on November 29, 2020
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posted by bz at 5:07 PM on November 28, 2020