Thinking about getting Lasik. A few red flags, though.
November 23, 2020 2:45 PM Subscribe
I'm seriously considering getting Lasik—am done with glasses. However, I have had a series of frustrations with the company, and am having second thoughts, both about the place itself and about the surgery.
I've been wearing eyeglasses for the past ~25 years, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm seriously considering getting Lasik surgery. My vision insurance company is offering 25% off with a specific company (The Lasik Vision Institute), which is nationwide, and which is why I'm trying to pursue a connection with this company.
As I am Deaf, I inquired if an ASL interpreter would be provided during the (free) consultation. I was told by the national call center yes, but they'd need 2-3 weeks lead time to schedule an interpreter. We worked back and forth to find a suitable date, and I was given the recommendation to contact the local office to arrange for an interpreter. I did that (contacted the local office), did a bit of back and forth on email. It's a bit difficult for me to arrange stuff in advance, given I work retail with a fluctuating schedule. After some back and forth, they stopped responding, so after around a week of that, I called the call center to follow up, spoke with someone who made a confirmed reservation, noted the record that I would need to be emailed and informed whether or not an interpreter could be provided for my reservation. I heard nothing at all after the estimated timeline the rep gave me, so called the local office again, and was told they couldn't secure an interpreter for me, and couldn't do anything.
I was at the end of my rope, asked for a manager, explained my frustrations with the back and forth and miscommunication. This manager reached out to me via email, and explained that there was some contractual issues in play, so they were unable to actually provide an interpreter for me, initiated on their end. He did suggest that I pay for the interpreter service myself, then they'd give me a credit for $400 total for the interpreter service at the consultation, surgery itself, and any post-surgery meetings, towards my total bill. While this was very nice and well-intended on his end, a flat $400 is not enough to cover all those issues (especially at a high COLA where I live), and it was implied that it would only be if I chose to go ahead with the surgery (the consultation only would be free and would not generate a bill).
I suggested instead that they contract/partner with a local interpreting agency (which I name dropped), OR I pay out of pocket, then they reimburse/give me a check, if not going through with the surgery. I also explained that a flat $400 would not cover all meetings (but might cover the consultation only). He did not respond to this, rather asking what my RX was, and suggesting I come over and that we handwrite back and forth if I felt comfortable doing so.
I mean, I made it very clear in my original email that I would much rather communicate in my natural language (ASL). I'm OK with typing back and forth, but for something as important and life-altering as this is, I'd really prefer an interpreter.
So, at this point, a few questions.
a) Would this seem like a red flag and a sign to avoid this company?
b) This skews more general, but overall, would Lasik be recommended? I'm awfully nearsighted (around -7 and -9), and my main fear is that being Deaf, if I somehow lose my vision after the surgery, that's it, game over, which scares me. I mean, having eyeglasses is a pain, but at least if something's wrong, it's easy to adjust. Once the surgery is done, there's no going back.
c) Any other questions I should ask the provider (if I decide to go through with the consolation)?
I'm just feeling mixed by this. Originally, this morning, I was so frustrated at the lack of helpfulness that I point blank asked to cancel the whole thing, but then I called to give feedback, and it led to this email thread.
Thanks for your insights!
I've been wearing eyeglasses for the past ~25 years, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm seriously considering getting Lasik surgery. My vision insurance company is offering 25% off with a specific company (The Lasik Vision Institute), which is nationwide, and which is why I'm trying to pursue a connection with this company.
As I am Deaf, I inquired if an ASL interpreter would be provided during the (free) consultation. I was told by the national call center yes, but they'd need 2-3 weeks lead time to schedule an interpreter. We worked back and forth to find a suitable date, and I was given the recommendation to contact the local office to arrange for an interpreter. I did that (contacted the local office), did a bit of back and forth on email. It's a bit difficult for me to arrange stuff in advance, given I work retail with a fluctuating schedule. After some back and forth, they stopped responding, so after around a week of that, I called the call center to follow up, spoke with someone who made a confirmed reservation, noted the record that I would need to be emailed and informed whether or not an interpreter could be provided for my reservation. I heard nothing at all after the estimated timeline the rep gave me, so called the local office again, and was told they couldn't secure an interpreter for me, and couldn't do anything.
I was at the end of my rope, asked for a manager, explained my frustrations with the back and forth and miscommunication. This manager reached out to me via email, and explained that there was some contractual issues in play, so they were unable to actually provide an interpreter for me, initiated on their end. He did suggest that I pay for the interpreter service myself, then they'd give me a credit for $400 total for the interpreter service at the consultation, surgery itself, and any post-surgery meetings, towards my total bill. While this was very nice and well-intended on his end, a flat $400 is not enough to cover all those issues (especially at a high COLA where I live), and it was implied that it would only be if I chose to go ahead with the surgery (the consultation only would be free and would not generate a bill).
I suggested instead that they contract/partner with a local interpreting agency (which I name dropped), OR I pay out of pocket, then they reimburse/give me a check, if not going through with the surgery. I also explained that a flat $400 would not cover all meetings (but might cover the consultation only). He did not respond to this, rather asking what my RX was, and suggesting I come over and that we handwrite back and forth if I felt comfortable doing so.
I mean, I made it very clear in my original email that I would much rather communicate in my natural language (ASL). I'm OK with typing back and forth, but for something as important and life-altering as this is, I'd really prefer an interpreter.
So, at this point, a few questions.
a) Would this seem like a red flag and a sign to avoid this company?
b) This skews more general, but overall, would Lasik be recommended? I'm awfully nearsighted (around -7 and -9), and my main fear is that being Deaf, if I somehow lose my vision after the surgery, that's it, game over, which scares me. I mean, having eyeglasses is a pain, but at least if something's wrong, it's easy to adjust. Once the surgery is done, there's no going back.
c) Any other questions I should ask the provider (if I decide to go through with the consolation)?
I'm just feeling mixed by this. Originally, this morning, I was so frustrated at the lack of helpfulness that I point blank asked to cancel the whole thing, but then I called to give feedback, and it led to this email thread.
Thanks for your insights!
If you're not already aware, then be aware that "backsliding" is normal after Lasik. I had Lasik performed about 15 years ago. At the time, I needed glasses all the time. Immediately after my surgery, I was probably about 20/30. I'm not sure what my correction is now, but I definitely need glasses for driving; I can skate by without them the rest of the time. I was surprised at my most recent eye exam when the doctor told me that my "residual correction" (if that's the right term) was pretty good. Also, Lasik will probably accelerate the date at which you'll need reading glasses. I'm not recommending against it, but it's not an unqualified, permanent, life-changing improvement either.
I've got a friend who's a Deaf interpreter and works at Gallaudet who might have some insight into the interpreter situation here.
posted by adamrice at 3:05 PM on November 23, 2020
I've got a friend who's a Deaf interpreter and works at Gallaudet who might have some insight into the interpreter situation here.
posted by adamrice at 3:05 PM on November 23, 2020
Based on the information here, I believe their refusal to provide an interpreter is indeed illegal under the ADA.
I imagine COVID creates some difficulties in arranging interpreters, but they still need to provide you with reasonable accommodation.
posted by mekily at 3:09 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
I imagine COVID creates some difficulties in arranging interpreters, but they still need to provide you with reasonable accommodation.
posted by mekily at 3:09 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Laser surgery on your eyes: I am deaf and have cataracts. They are still very small and do not affect my vision. I am also very nearsighted and can only drive under strict rules. My eye doctors have advised me over the years that while some of my problems could be corrected with surgery they didn't think it was a good idea since if anything did go wrong, that would be that. I bet they'd tell you the same thing. Glasses are annoying at times. They can get broken, they can get lost, but they don't leave you with the possibility of losing your sight.
I can't help on the interpreter front. The clinics I visit are a part of a public hospital, so providing interpreters is their duty under the law, no question.
posted by Fukiyama at 3:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
I can't help on the interpreter front. The clinics I visit are a part of a public hospital, so providing interpreters is their duty under the law, no question.
posted by Fukiyama at 3:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
In terms of Lasik surgery, I looked into it for my own nearsightedness several years ago, rather compulsively looking at research until I had what felt like a full picture and a certain percentage of cases go wrong, so wrong, in fact, that I vowed at that time to never consider doing it again.
Conversely, a friend of mine in NZ recently decided to get Lasik surgery, and when I balked, he told me about several friends of his who had gotten it as long ago as two decades with nary a problem.
It seems — and this is all anecdote so YMMV — that Lasik is something of a NZ speciality, presumably because at some point they found it cheaper to perform Lasik than import glasses/glasses-making equipment from abroad. As a result, they perform the procedure all the time and perhaps have perfected the protocols in a way we haven't since it's still relatively uncommon here. Note that I had heard the same kind of story about Russia's superior Lasik ability many years ago, too. I believe, in fact, they were the ones who invented it.
Again, this is all anecdote and I can guarantee no facts, but it may be food for thought or further research.
posted by Violet Blue at 3:33 PM on November 23, 2020
Conversely, a friend of mine in NZ recently decided to get Lasik surgery, and when I balked, he told me about several friends of his who had gotten it as long ago as two decades with nary a problem.
It seems — and this is all anecdote so YMMV — that Lasik is something of a NZ speciality, presumably because at some point they found it cheaper to perform Lasik than import glasses/glasses-making equipment from abroad. As a result, they perform the procedure all the time and perhaps have perfected the protocols in a way we haven't since it's still relatively uncommon here. Note that I had heard the same kind of story about Russia's superior Lasik ability many years ago, too. I believe, in fact, they were the ones who invented it.
Again, this is all anecdote and I can guarantee no facts, but it may be food for thought or further research.
posted by Violet Blue at 3:33 PM on November 23, 2020
They can do one eye first, make sure that results are good, then do the other eye, so that there's no worry of total vision loss.
Another drop of anecdatum : I had prescriptions in that -8 to -10 range and had Lasik 20+ years ago in the US. Now, years later, I have just as good distance vision (no backsliding) but am starting to need reading glasses, as expected for anyone. At night, streetlights have a minor starburst effect. 10/10 would do again.
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:50 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Another drop of anecdatum : I had prescriptions in that -8 to -10 range and had Lasik 20+ years ago in the US. Now, years later, I have just as good distance vision (no backsliding) but am starting to need reading glasses, as expected for anyone. At night, streetlights have a minor starburst effect. 10/10 would do again.
posted by dum spiro spero at 3:50 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
INFO: would you be ok with a teleconference interpreter, or is it just not the same as someone who's there in person?
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:53 PM on November 23, 2020
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:53 PM on November 23, 2020
I don't know what to make of their inability to arrange an interpreter, but you'd need one during the consult and need one during the surgery-- but since you'll want someone there to take you home, and since there are some post-surgical care instructions, I would imagine you'll want a parent, partner, or other ASL-able family member or close friend who can help you through surgery with the post-surgery stuff. Someone close enough to let you crash at their place, or stay at yours, and take care of you either way-- more on that in a minute.
For the consult, they need to measure the thickness of your corneas to ensure they are deep enough for the surgery, since, depending on your prescription, they'll be vaporizing a significant percentage of a millimeter of your cornea. This involves barely touching a tool to your cornea very briefly-- so it's uncomfortable, and will also require holding head and eyes still for that instant. How you will adapt to that when your main lingual input is your eyes, I don't know, but that's a challenge you'll need to meet, along with your interpreter.
You need to find out the name of your doctor and how many surgeries they've performed-- you're looking for someone who's done over 10,000 eyes. (Really.)
I was given Valium before my LASIK surgery, but the doctor also had to interact with me during the surgery itself, telling me where to look, keep my eye open (which was difficult with a ring of bright LEDs surrounding the laser aperture) and when to hold still. You'll need to establish some signals in order to accomplish that.
Afterwards, though, there's an important brief given to both to drowsy me as well as the person who was taking me home, which involved some greasy eyedrops on a schedule over the next 24h, a protective goggle thing so I don't touch my eyes, some minor pain meds, etc. (It was not painful.) After the surgery, you'll be managing your eye dryness (which doesn't entirely go away for several months, by which point you'll be a pro with your eyedrops, but is certainly most severe in the first couple weeks) mostly with fake-tears-type eyedrops (DO NOT USE THE RED-EYE DROPS), but the first day or so will be medicinal eyedrops rather than typical ones.
I would also agree with the people saying get one eye done followed by the other.
Pro-tip: Get the eyedrops recommended by your surgeon, and keep them in your pocket where they'll be warmed by body heat. Some people find cold eyedrops refreshing-- I find them to be miserable.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:06 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
For the consult, they need to measure the thickness of your corneas to ensure they are deep enough for the surgery, since, depending on your prescription, they'll be vaporizing a significant percentage of a millimeter of your cornea. This involves barely touching a tool to your cornea very briefly-- so it's uncomfortable, and will also require holding head and eyes still for that instant. How you will adapt to that when your main lingual input is your eyes, I don't know, but that's a challenge you'll need to meet, along with your interpreter.
You need to find out the name of your doctor and how many surgeries they've performed-- you're looking for someone who's done over 10,000 eyes. (Really.)
I was given Valium before my LASIK surgery, but the doctor also had to interact with me during the surgery itself, telling me where to look, keep my eye open (which was difficult with a ring of bright LEDs surrounding the laser aperture) and when to hold still. You'll need to establish some signals in order to accomplish that.
Afterwards, though, there's an important brief given to both to drowsy me as well as the person who was taking me home, which involved some greasy eyedrops on a schedule over the next 24h, a protective goggle thing so I don't touch my eyes, some minor pain meds, etc. (It was not painful.) After the surgery, you'll be managing your eye dryness (which doesn't entirely go away for several months, by which point you'll be a pro with your eyedrops, but is certainly most severe in the first couple weeks) mostly with fake-tears-type eyedrops (DO NOT USE THE RED-EYE DROPS), but the first day or so will be medicinal eyedrops rather than typical ones.
I would also agree with the people saying get one eye done followed by the other.
Pro-tip: Get the eyedrops recommended by your surgeon, and keep them in your pocket where they'll be warmed by body heat. Some people find cold eyedrops refreshing-- I find them to be miserable.
posted by Sunburnt at 5:06 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
I used to work at a personal injury law firm and the majority of our cases were LASIK cases. I am very nearsighted myself and will never get LASIK now. The worst part was that even when someone’s vision was permanently ruined, it wasn’t enough to prove negligence because these surgeries are so easy to mess up. I prepared a lot of exhibits showing what vision people were left with after botched surgeries. Especially in your case, I would not risk it.
posted by dianeF at 5:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by dianeF at 5:32 PM on November 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
My colleague's dad is having issues with detached retinas - and a doctor said, did u get Lasik done? And, the answer was "yes". I don't ever plan to do it.
posted by iNfo.Pump at 7:46 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by iNfo.Pump at 7:46 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
The fact that this particular provider seems, at best, not very accommodating (I can't speak to the legalities) would totally turn me off -- I'm nearsighted (but not as nearsighted as you and I know a few people who have had LASIK and really love the results, but it's not for me personally -- and I think it's very important to feel comfortable with all aspects of the procedure including the consult. I would recommend looking for a provider that someone can either recommend personally or one that has experience with deaf people.
Also, when my husband got his LASIK last year, my vision insurance provider did give a discount on the procedure. It wasn't as significant as it would have been he'd gone with the recommended provider, but you might want to check your policy again.
posted by sm1tten at 8:06 PM on November 23, 2020
Also, when my husband got his LASIK last year, my vision insurance provider did give a discount on the procedure. It wasn't as significant as it would have been he'd gone with the recommended provider, but you might want to check your policy again.
posted by sm1tten at 8:06 PM on November 23, 2020
I imagine COVID creates some difficulties in arranging interpreters, but they still need to provide you with reasonable accommodation.
According to my ASL interpreter friend, the definition of "reasonable" in reasonable accommodation is intentionally vague, so as to allow more leeway to the service provider in the case of legal action. Even so, it would almost certainly be bad press for them to get sued, if it comes to that, but you'd have to decide if the time and expense is worth that course of action, if they will not work with you.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:54 PM on November 23, 2020
According to my ASL interpreter friend, the definition of "reasonable" in reasonable accommodation is intentionally vague, so as to allow more leeway to the service provider in the case of legal action. Even so, it would almost certainly be bad press for them to get sued, if it comes to that, but you'd have to decide if the time and expense is worth that course of action, if they will not work with you.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:54 PM on November 23, 2020
Have you contacted your insurance provider and let them know about the lack of accommodation, and ask if the discount could be extended to another provider on a single case basis? It may or may not be possible but worth trying.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:50 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:50 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
My ex-brother-in-law, an ophthalmologist, had lasik and chose to only do one eye. Pre the surgery he decided one eye only. His eyes have compensated for each other so that now he can see both far and near with the dominant eye in each category doing most of the work. It struck me as interesting. I do not know the theory behind it, but I do know that if he had done both eyes, it would have been one at a time anyway.
As for the interpreter, IANAL. It seems to me that even if you were to coax this provider into spending money to get an interpreter, there will always be a hesitation on both sides about each other. I do not think the person performing the procedure will know or even care about that during the procedure, but it will be awkward at best. My point is to find another provider. Work with your insurance company to compensate for this provider's lack of following the rules/law. I would even consider going to a different branch of this national chain if that is even mildly convenient. Different office, different staff, same company, same insurance reimbursement. Clean slate.
Fwiw, I am a 30+ years wearer of glasses and a wearing of hearing aids. Not deaf. I can follow basic, slow ASL. Even being partially hearing, I would not do a procedure whereby I could not communicate easily with the provider. Stick to your rights. To me, knowing what (little) I know about Lasik, I think the communication part is more important than the doctor. The procedure is very automated. Experience is the key.
posted by AugustWest at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
As for the interpreter, IANAL. It seems to me that even if you were to coax this provider into spending money to get an interpreter, there will always be a hesitation on both sides about each other. I do not think the person performing the procedure will know or even care about that during the procedure, but it will be awkward at best. My point is to find another provider. Work with your insurance company to compensate for this provider's lack of following the rules/law. I would even consider going to a different branch of this national chain if that is even mildly convenient. Different office, different staff, same company, same insurance reimbursement. Clean slate.
Fwiw, I am a 30+ years wearer of glasses and a wearing of hearing aids. Not deaf. I can follow basic, slow ASL. Even being partially hearing, I would not do a procedure whereby I could not communicate easily with the provider. Stick to your rights. To me, knowing what (little) I know about Lasik, I think the communication part is more important than the doctor. The procedure is very automated. Experience is the key.
posted by AugustWest at 10:40 PM on November 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all of your responses, it's very helpful. I'll try contacting my insurance company to see if they can honor the discount with another provider, citing accessibility concerns.
YANML, but in regards specifically to the accessibility part: as they technically did offer interpreting services, but at a fixed $400 credit, would you say that would satisfy requirements? I'm not sure because the fact stands that when I explained I might only want a consultation and would request reimbursement for interpreting services, they did not respond to that, nor did they acknowledge that request.
posted by dubious_dude at 9:11 AM on November 24, 2020
YANML, but in regards specifically to the accessibility part: as they technically did offer interpreting services, but at a fixed $400 credit, would you say that would satisfy requirements? I'm not sure because the fact stands that when I explained I might only want a consultation and would request reimbursement for interpreting services, they did not respond to that, nor did they acknowledge that request.
posted by dubious_dude at 9:11 AM on November 24, 2020
I'm not a lawyer. But my understanding is that they are obliged to cover the full cost of an interpreter, not only $400 worth, and that's not getting into the issue of them covering it in the form of a credit towards services you may or may not use.
posted by hoyland at 9:51 AM on November 24, 2020
posted by hoyland at 9:51 AM on November 24, 2020
Don't limit yourself to this one provider that you are being offered a 25% discount at. There is a wide variation in prices on LASIK, this might not even be that good a deal. Some places offer a referral discount for "friends", you can ask around on local groups and find a new "friend".
You will also find a lot of variation in how different LASIK providers communicate with you, not just on getting an interpreter but on advising you as to whether it is a good idea for you to get LASIK, whether they will do one eye at a time, etc.
I would avoid the sort of providers who tell almost everyone that they are a good candidate for LASIK. You want someone who is willing to turn you down if it's not the right procedure for you, even if that's not the cheapest option.
posted by yohko at 2:07 PM on November 24, 2020
You will also find a lot of variation in how different LASIK providers communicate with you, not just on getting an interpreter but on advising you as to whether it is a good idea for you to get LASIK, whether they will do one eye at a time, etc.
I would avoid the sort of providers who tell almost everyone that they are a good candidate for LASIK. You want someone who is willing to turn you down if it's not the right procedure for you, even if that's not the cheapest option.
posted by yohko at 2:07 PM on November 24, 2020
What Yohko said. There are a lot of providers, find one that will treat you right.
There is a strong profit motive to shovel patients through the pipeline. You owe it to yourself to shop around and to find a good provider.
posted by pdoege at 8:35 PM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
There is a strong profit motive to shovel patients through the pipeline. You owe it to yourself to shop around and to find a good provider.
posted by pdoege at 8:35 PM on November 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:52 PM on November 23, 2020 [10 favorites]