Summer Sales job: Is it a scam?

November 18, 2020 10:08 AM

Is door to door pest control sales a scam? If so, how can I prove it?

My 19 year old son is being approached by a company that is telling him he can go to San Francisco this summer and sell pest control. They tell him the minimum he will make in four months is 40 thousand dollars! All of his roommates are doing it and another of his good friends is doing it. He asked our advice about it. I told him a few things:

- Jobs that pay 10k a month don't have to recruit people
- Jobs that pay 10k a month are filled by the most skilled people (in this case sale people)

And I asked him
- Can you find anyone who did this last year and actually made even half that much money?

But they are selling him hard and with his roommates and others doing it, it's hard to resist the allure.

My question is this: What's the deal with these companies? Does anyone make that much money? If so, what percentage of employees makes that much money? What is the modal experience of a 19 year old doing this kind of work?

And my big question is: If this is a scam, as I suspect (but don't know) it is, is there something that I can show him that will demonstrate that?

Thanks!

posted by crapples to Work & Money (25 answers total)

This reminds me of a summer job that many people I knew in the Chicago area took during highschool selling Cutco knives through a firm called "vector marketing." They too were promised massive paychecks, but it was all premised on them earning commissions on selling these knives, and a small fee they would earn for each in-person sales appointment they booked and completed. They sent a flyer to literally every house in my area growing up every single summer, with claims of massive income opportunities (and no experience needed).

In my experience, the people I know that did it earned some money, but nowhere near the amount expected. Breaking it down as an hourly rate, it was no better than minimum wage or smidge better, but there was the added stress of always seeking out new clients and pressuring friends/family. As far as if anyone actually earns the amounts they claim, yes, there were supposedly one or two superstars who seemed to earn a lot and were generally promoted to some sort of manager status where they both did their own appointments and earned some more bonus or commission for setting up other peoples' appointments. So yes, if you're lucky and work really hard, maybe you can earn a lot, but it's no better than a standard summer job and far more stressful.

I would recommend looking for online posts about the specific company to see if anyone has written about their experience (e.g., check Glassdoor) and showing those to your son.
posted by unid41 at 10:15 AM on November 18, 2020 [3 favorites]

Have him do the math. To get paid 40k how many contracts will he need to close? What is a reasonable rate of door-knocks to closed contracts (I would guess under 1%). So how many doors would he need to knock on per month to make that much money?

In many counties in the San Francisco Bay area, he will be required to have a permit. A lot of these shady companies don't bother with a permit and the cops can and will hassle him for not having one, up to an including getting arrested if he is caught multiple times. So that would be another question to ask.
posted by muddgirl at 10:22 AM on November 18, 2020 [6 favorites]

Also I'm really struggling to understand why a legitimate pest control company would need kids from Iowa to go door to door in California. We have our own 19 year olds.
posted by muddgirl at 10:25 AM on November 18, 2020 [57 favorites]

Legitimate pest control companys do exist. And they do need to expand, start up with others. Often times they find customers to keep on retainer, and do spring/summer outdoor pest prevention and indoors. So it's not quite like selling knives.

Any door to door job though, is going to be very sketchy. Stormchasers go door to door, and while they are in fact potentially providing roofs for customers that get hail damage, they are also usually lying, misrepresenting, or using any technique possible to get a sale.

I'll do the math on the closure rate for your friend. At a 50% commission, and a $100/month sign on, you'd need to sign on 200 houses for services. (10,000=200*$100*.5). I would estimate closure rate from a great salesperson in this situation would be about 5%. So, 200/0.05 = 4,000 houses. I would estimate about half of the houses are retained past the first month, with the other half leaving after 3 months. So, to hit 200 houses, you would need to visit about 4,000 your first month, 2,000 the second month, and maintain about 2,000 houses a month. That's 500 a week or 100 per day.

You might think you can do 100 per day, but that's 100 pitches per day, which likely takes at LEAST 10 minutes each. That's 1000 minutes of pitching per day, or 16 hours per day.

If they charge less per month, commission is less, or closure rate is lower, than it would be even harder than this.

I would think you can get about 20 pitches in a day, maximum. With my rate of 5%, that's one closure a day, or $50. That's about $250/week or $1,000/month. Not really sustainable, but high enough to sucker some kids in, that's for sure.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2020 [7 favorites]

Such a salesperson tried to get me to buy their service, and that side of things certainly felt scammy, with high-pressure tactics like "your neighbors are doing this, we'll give you all a bulk discount, we're only here this weekend, it's all-natural and safe (but I can't tell you what it is), it'll get rid of pests while not hurting bees (but I can't explain how)," and so on. Personally I would not want to participate in such an undertaking on ethical grounds, never mind the question of whether anyone actually gets $10k/mo going around being a viral vector (because of course they weren't actually wearing their provided mask, and perpetually tried to get closer to me).
posted by teremala at 10:40 AM on November 18, 2020 [5 favorites]

Here's an anecdote, if it helps: I've lived in San Francisco for 13 years, and I have never, not once, ever had anyone promote pest control services to me by an in-person visit or even a phone call. And I've constantly lived in standalone residential buildings which look like they'd be in the market for their own pest control (as opposed to apartment buildings, high rises, etc., with remote management.)

If you want to help him put this company to the test, have him ask the sales rep, "If I say yes, I'm sure you're going to have me sign a contract. And I'm sure that contract will spell out exactly how it guarantees the $10K / month. So, can I please review that contract?" They will have a zillion excuses why he can't see the contract until after he commits, each one of which should raise a red flag.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:41 AM on November 18, 2020 [18 favorites]

I have no way of knowing, but this reminds me a lot of those 'summer jobs' selling magazines door-to-door, that are not only scammy but sometimes outright dangerous: see this Atlantic Magazine article. Not only will your son fail to make the kind of money they're promising him, I think he runs the risk of getting stuck in a bad situation...even before you take COVID into account.

Here in Austin, door-to-door pest control salesmen are quite common. They are always almost always young men of color and while I have never had an in-depth conversation with any of them about their work circumstances, they usually seem pretty exhausted and do not approach their jobs with the kind of energy and enthusiasm I would expect from someone making $10,000 a month.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:46 AM on November 18, 2020 [10 favorites]

Okay, here is an article from The Guardian laying it out even more explicitly: Hundreds of Young People Trafficked into Door-to-Door Sales in the US.

"These crews are not at all the stereotypical image of what people think of when they think of trafficking,” explained Miles. “What is so unique is that these are US citizens, male young adult victims – and that is so far from the dominant narrative of what people think about when they think about trafficking."

Don't let him go.
posted by Merricat Blackwood at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2020 [27 favorites]

If you google "door to door sales forced labor", you might find some things that will be concerning as far as the idea of hiring 19 year olds in Iowa to go across the country for this.

If this is a scam, as I suspect (but don't know) it is, is there something that I can show him that will demonstrate that?

If he hasn't been able to figure it out from the promise that they think he and his roommates in Iowa are so great at door to door sales that they are going to get $40k each, no, probably not.

I think the bigger question is not whether it's a scam, but whether any actual harm will come to him from participating in this, pressure to be involved in criminal activity, etc. If it was merely a scam it could end up being a useful life lesson about things that seem too good to be true.
posted by yohko at 10:49 AM on November 18, 2020 [5 favorites]

Actually, he might be able to make some pretty good money. But that is only because he would not be the one scammed, but one of the scammers. There is only a short distance between this kind of door-to-door scam artistry and telephone scammers looking for your help recovering their Nigerian inheritance and the like. The door to door recruit would be taught some set of techniques of deception aimed at building trust, convincing the homeowner of some imminent pest peril, persuading them to buy into the company's service, which will be minimal, and collecting payment up front.
posted by beagle at 10:54 AM on November 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

Even though people are at home much more these days, they just do not answer their doors. (Source: Have lived in San Francisco for two decades.) Especially not when there's a pandemic, and especially when people are wary enough of strangers.

Lots of people have video doorbells these days, so if you don't know who's knocking and it's clearly not FedEx or the mail carrier, it's unlikely you'll open the door.

Even if I did talk to a door-to-door salesperson, the decision on pest control is the landlord's, not mine.
posted by Orkney Vole at 10:57 AM on November 18, 2020 [4 favorites]

I live near Indianapolis, and had a kid from Utah trying to sell me pest control this summer. I think it was something named Aptive, maybe? I asked the kid why he was spending his summer selling pest control in Indy, but I think he was too new to give me any gritty details. I recall seeing a manager or maybe coworker riding around near by on a Segway with a clipboard, seemingly to ensure they hit all the houses in our neighborhood.

I'm guessing that they pull kids from one state to the other because it's waaaaay harder for you to quit a stupid job if you're far from home and have limited alternative employment options.
posted by po822000 at 11:10 AM on November 18, 2020 [22 favorites]

I had the at-home pest control visit too - spend time outside and they attack like flies. Windows, pest control, lawn mowing, electricity providers, cable companies - it's relentless.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:27 AM on November 18, 2020

These door to door sales jobs that recruit young people and take them far from home are basically non-sexual human trafficking. Here is a study. Your son's friends who have already signed on have less sense than him; you did a good job parenting if he's asking you for your advice.
posted by juniperesque at 11:44 AM on November 18, 2020 [13 favorites]

The thing that concerns me is them moving him across the country to an unfamiliar city and away from you and away from any support system he may have if things go sideways.
On preview, whatt juniperesque just said.
posted by BoscosMom at 11:48 AM on November 18, 2020 [5 favorites]

Yeah, the articles linked above lay it out very clearly, this is essentially a forced-labor scheme. It would be one thing if it were merely a local crappy commission-based job with unrealistic promises of pay, but being recruited to go out of state is a big red flag.

Will they be "provided" housing? If so, they'll almost certainly be crammed into some sort of property outside the city and driven in, with rent and transportation deducted from their pay.

Look up the name of the company with the Better Business Bureau. Is it even a real company?
posted by desuetude at 11:51 AM on November 18, 2020 [5 favorites]

Please have him read that Polaris paper.

These jobs are technically legal but the way the metrics work make it more like a carnival game than a job, and the revenue promised is only achievable if every single nearly-impossible variable falls precisely into line. It'll happen just enough, but not too much.

Additionally, if your son and his friends are shiny-toothed white boys thinking they're gaming the system and have never been actual poverty-level poor, they are part of the leverage used against actual poor desperate kids to extract as much work as possible out of them for almost certainly shit gains.

People who actually want pest control use the internet and phone to get it, anyway. They have those in San Francisco.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:58 AM on November 18, 2020 [7 favorites]

This raises a couple of big red flags for me:

1. With unemployment as high as it is, why would this company be importing people from IOWA, when they could just hire out of work San Franciscans? Clearly, if this was a legitimate job, locals would be scrambling over themselves to apply for it. (Spoiler: it isn't a legitimate job.)

2. San Francisco has a lot of apartments; as a lifelong apartment dweller, if I have a pest control problem? I contact the landlord, and they bring out the pest control company that they've hired. With my current place? If I did hire my own pest control people without the landlord's consent, and they screw things up? I'm financially liable.

I once got cornered by an Amway rep at a Borders during a recession, and they couldn't answer why they had to resort to trying to recruit strangers in the magazine aisle for their gig, when WA State was having over 10% unemployment at the time.
posted by spinifex23 at 12:05 PM on November 18, 2020 [6 favorites]

wow. I've had kids like this come to my door. I could tell something was hinky, but they were old enough - looked like young adults - that I didn't think about trying to help them. It's a derail, but if anyone has any good ideas about how to offer to help kids like this next time, can we talk about it? Offer them a sandwich? To call their parents? Or the DA?
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:20 PM on November 18, 2020 [3 favorites]

With most MLM companies, you can do a search for their name + "income disclosure statement" and you can find that publicly available information and/or someone who has dug into it to highlight how little money the vast, vast majority of MLM dupes make (example). Perhaps the company who is soliciting him has published that information as well.

Also, can you get together with these kids and give them a crash course in personal finance and scams? Tell them it is both to help inform them but also so that they can help keep an eye out for their friends, family and intimate partners. Very basic is a monopoly money type exercise where they pay for all their expenses and see what is left over. Doing both the calculation for how much money just existing in the San Francisco area is going to cost them as well as the calculation above about how much work they'll need to do to have a success rate that nets them this kind of gonzo income might be sufficient to slow their roll. I know they are 19 and technically adults but this isn't the kind of "hard knocks" lesson that is good for any of them. While they may have some financial literacy, this is exactly the kind of moment that helps to put those skills into action to save them money in the long run.
posted by amanda at 3:32 PM on November 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

Here's an old Reddit AMA from 5 years ago from a guy selling something called Alterra door to door. Doing a search for "pest control scams" turns up a lot of hits for various news articles and posts including the classic scam of just fake sales where you give them a check and there just is no product. So, dig in on this company! I feel like, without the allure of 10k/month (the guy in the AMA makes much less), and with perhaps a more reasonable expectation of return, this wouldn't seem as enticing. The high dollar amount short-circuits rational processes and that's by design, even if the company is "legit."
posted by amanda at 3:41 PM on November 18, 2020 [3 favorites]

knives through a firm called "vector marketing."

Yes, the knives.

First and foremost don't take any job that requires you to spend money before you start.

Second, if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Especially when it sounds ridiculously good.

Third, are you home during the day? Do you answer your doorbell if you're not expecting a delivery?

What mainstream publishers don't want you to know about door-to-door magazine sales.

Trapped Into Selling Magazines Door-to-Door.
posted by bendy at 12:25 AM on November 19, 2020

San Francisco has a lot of apartments; as a lifelong apartment dweller, if I have a pest control problem?

Maybe it's just because I lived in the Mission and the TL, but my landlords entered my apartment every month to spray insecticide. If I didn't give them permission they'd spray it under the door.

Got scabies, moved to Lower Nob Hill.
posted by bendy at 12:38 AM on November 19, 2020

Side thought: If your son is interested in working in sales then, even in a tough job market, there are likely to be local employers - with legitimate businesses - who might take him on (and train him). Again you could encourage the comparison between the X a month he might take home from the pest control job, after accommodation and expenses - and best case - versus Y a month for a lesser paid but local job done while living at home.
posted by rongorongo at 1:09 AM on November 19, 2020

One note, I'm 99% sure that by "San Francisco", they mean "one of the many urban and suburban areas in the San Francisco Bay Area". No one from outside the area has heard of Fremont even though it has a population greater than 30 state capitals. People from there almost certainly say they're from "San Francisco" or "outside San Francisco". Anecdotally, we have seen far fewer door-to-door salespeople during the pandemic.
posted by wnissen at 10:26 AM on November 19, 2020