Suspicion of inaccurate speeding ticket
September 30, 2020 12:44 PM Subscribe
I received a speeding ticket that claimed that I was doing 42mph in 30mph zone. But I am pretty sure I wasn't going that fast since when I saw the speed camera flash I glanced at my speedometer and it was 35 or 36. But of course I have no proof of that. I am being fined $170. Is it worth contesting this ticket?
A couple of weeks ago, I was driving in Portland Oregon one night and saw a flash from an automated speed enforcement camera. I remember being puzzled at the time because it didn't feel like I was going fast and so I looked down on my speedometer and it was around 35-36. The posted speed limit was 30. Other cars that went before me and after me doesn't seem to be going any slower and I didn't see other camera flashes.
This case is difficult to swallow because I personally feel reasonably confident I did not go at the alleged speed that's recorded on the ticket, judging from my glance at the speedometer and the relative speed of other cars around. Also I drive through that stretch of road at least a few times a week and I am usually quite conscientious about not going over 40mph.
I kinda want to contest this in court, but I feel at the court they will just point to the radar data and say that measurement is infallible and it will end up being a waste of time and during pandemic times I am not super stoked to go to a potentially crowded indoor places like a court.
A couple of weeks ago, I was driving in Portland Oregon one night and saw a flash from an automated speed enforcement camera. I remember being puzzled at the time because it didn't feel like I was going fast and so I looked down on my speedometer and it was around 35-36. The posted speed limit was 30. Other cars that went before me and after me doesn't seem to be going any slower and I didn't see other camera flashes.
This case is difficult to swallow because I personally feel reasonably confident I did not go at the alleged speed that's recorded on the ticket, judging from my glance at the speedometer and the relative speed of other cars around. Also I drive through that stretch of road at least a few times a week and I am usually quite conscientious about not going over 40mph.
I kinda want to contest this in court, but I feel at the court they will just point to the radar data and say that measurement is infallible and it will end up being a waste of time and during pandemic times I am not super stoked to go to a potentially crowded indoor places like a court.
You may consider finding out if you can plead guilty by mail to ask for some non-moving violation penalty instead of a moving violation.
This. All the traffic court cares about is collecting a fee. I once accepted a plea of “public nuisance” to avoid getting dinged by my insurance. Still had to pay the fine, of course.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:59 PM on September 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
This. All the traffic court cares about is collecting a fee. I once accepted a plea of “public nuisance” to avoid getting dinged by my insurance. Still had to pay the fine, of course.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:59 PM on September 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
35/36 in a 30 is still speeding. And probably the same ticket level as 42. Less than 15 over for example, so that defense wont prove you innocent, and admits guilt.
In a low trafficed straight 40+ zone i would compare your speedometer readings to what waze/google maps / gps app of choice reports your speed at over different speeds. Its possible your speedometer is inaccurate due to tire size changes, wear, etc. I would treat 10 seconds of consistent straight gps speed as the accurate reference to compare your speedometer to.
posted by TheAdamist at 1:33 PM on September 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
In a low trafficed straight 40+ zone i would compare your speedometer readings to what waze/google maps / gps app of choice reports your speed at over different speeds. Its possible your speedometer is inaccurate due to tire size changes, wear, etc. I would treat 10 seconds of consistent straight gps speed as the accurate reference to compare your speedometer to.
posted by TheAdamist at 1:33 PM on September 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
By your own admission you were speeding. Speeding kills people. You got a ticket. Pay the fine and don't speed.
If contesting the fine requires a court appearance you're creating a potentially risky interaction for blameless clerks during a pandemic.
But if you do decide to contest, however, then I would recommend not offering "I am usually quite conscientious about not going over 40mph in a 30mph zone" as a statement in your defence.
posted by caek at 1:35 PM on September 30, 2020 [12 favorites]
If contesting the fine requires a court appearance you're creating a potentially risky interaction for blameless clerks during a pandemic.
But if you do decide to contest, however, then I would recommend not offering "I am usually quite conscientious about not going over 40mph in a 30mph zone" as a statement in your defence.
posted by caek at 1:35 PM on September 30, 2020 [12 favorites]
I've also experienced this, and I think speeding tickets are a racket and I have no faith in the speed camera. I asked a similar question on AskMe myself within the last year, actually. I didn't end up contesting. The officer gave me a 'lower charge' (still BS) and it just wasn't worth it to try to fight it. Like you, I was speeding - but only 5-8 miles above the limit, not the 15 or whatever the cop was saying.
So my advice to you is: if you haven't already been downgraded to a lower charge (I'm assuming not, since it was an automated ticket), then it might be worth it to fight it in court, if you have the time. It's certainly not going to increase the fine, so you don't have much to lose. Good luck.
posted by widdershins at 1:50 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
So my advice to you is: if you haven't already been downgraded to a lower charge (I'm assuming not, since it was an automated ticket), then it might be worth it to fight it in court, if you have the time. It's certainly not going to increase the fine, so you don't have much to lose. Good luck.
posted by widdershins at 1:50 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you contest it, and other people contest about that camera, then there's a chance that either a) a problem will be found with that camera, or b) the automated ticket system will be called into question.
An automated ticketing camera -- one that gave me a ticket -- in Oak Brook Illinois was recently removed -- it happens! In that case, it was causing people to slam on their brakes, and actually led to more accidents.
posted by amtho at 2:02 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
An automated ticketing camera -- one that gave me a ticket -- in Oak Brook Illinois was recently removed -- it happens! In that case, it was causing people to slam on their brakes, and actually led to more accidents.
posted by amtho at 2:02 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some cities outsource the traffic cameras, which allows for some operators to maximize profits with little regard to public welfare.
Aside from the fine, there may also be tacked-on court fees, and your insurance fees may also increase.
If you dress up nicely, read everything closely, and go to court, that might be all it takes for the ticket to be dismissed. A friend of mine showed up, didn't even have to argue anything - the judge looked at the ticket and threw it out. She donated the proceeds to charity.
reddit post
posted by dum spiro spero at 2:46 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Aside from the fine, there may also be tacked-on court fees, and your insurance fees may also increase.
If you dress up nicely, read everything closely, and go to court, that might be all it takes for the ticket to be dismissed. A friend of mine showed up, didn't even have to argue anything - the judge looked at the ticket and threw it out. She donated the proceeds to charity.
reddit post
posted by dum spiro spero at 2:46 PM on September 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oregon is one of the jurisdictions where it has been proven in court that their traffic cameras were incorrectly calibrated. If really were going only 5 over, I would fight the ticket, and I've never gotten a speeding ticket, if only because the camera is subject to error. FWIW, I saw a study many years ago that no speeding tickets for 6 miles or less over the limit were written in the whole state of Ohio.
posted by wnissen at 3:16 PM on September 30, 2020
posted by wnissen at 3:16 PM on September 30, 2020
Red light / speed camera companies have become notorious for greed, corruption, and incompetence, and right now they're suffering, vocally, from declining revenues because of lockdowns (see one of the 'related' links in the article I link to), which has likely made them even dodgier.
Try looking around in driver forums and municipal government blogs and forums for other drivers with similar experiences, and find out who owns the camera that ticketed you and check out their history. If that looks suspicious, try to get in touch with other drivers, complain to your elected representative, and go from there.
posted by jamjam at 3:54 PM on September 30, 2020
Try looking around in driver forums and municipal government blogs and forums for other drivers with similar experiences, and find out who owns the camera that ticketed you and check out their history. If that looks suspicious, try to get in touch with other drivers, complain to your elected representative, and go from there.
posted by jamjam at 3:54 PM on September 30, 2020
So your argument is that you were speeding, just not as much as they thought you were?! And that you normally speed on that road and conscientiously do ten over? I’m sure that will go down really well in court! Hehe. Just pay the fine. Like others have said, shaving a few miles off it probably doesn’t even make a difference to the dollar figure you’ll have to pay.
posted by Jubey at 3:55 PM on September 30, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 3:55 PM on September 30, 2020 [5 favorites]
Oh, and if it was a School Zone violation, check to see whether the school was even in session.
posted by jamjam at 4:01 PM on September 30, 2020
posted by jamjam at 4:01 PM on September 30, 2020
An alternative: I got a similar ticket in Tigard, OR, and wrote a letter to the judge (with a check for the full amount of the fine) explaining the mitigating circumstances. The judge lowered the fine by half and I was sent a refund for that amount.
It is worth it to not necessarily contest the ticket, but explain it...
posted by tacodave at 9:02 PM on September 30, 2020
It is worth it to not necessarily contest the ticket, but explain it...
posted by tacodave at 9:02 PM on September 30, 2020
Fatality rates of collisions with pedestrians at 35 are substantially higher than those at 30. At 35, your stopping distance is two car lengths longer. 30 zones exist to protect pedestrians in the place they live. Pay the fine, and stop speeding.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:35 PM on September 30, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:35 PM on September 30, 2020 [5 favorites]
From all I've ever heard or read, oral argument counts fof little in traffic court. The judge can't identify the honest witness in the sea of opportunistic liars. If you had evidence, like say a GPS record of your speed, you might have a chance.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:55 AM on October 1, 2020
posted by SemiSalt at 4:55 AM on October 1, 2020
Fatality rates of collisions with pedestrians at 35 are substantially higher than those at 30. At 35, your stopping distance is two car lengths longer. 30 zones exist to protect pedestrians in the place they live. Pay the fine, and stop speeding.
Or to put it in 2020 terms, it's like deliberately going maskless to a crowded store with a cough.
I am sure you are a lovely person. I acknowledge that the capitalist system and US dependence on cars encourages people to speed. Police enforcement of fines is also incredibly biased. But two wrongs doesn't make a right.
posted by daybeforetheday at 2:24 AM on October 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Most people will unconsciously hit their brakes when they see a flash or at least let off their accelerator pedal. I can absolutely see losing 6 mph of speed in the 2-5 seconds it takes to figure out what was going on. This is especially true on a slightly inclined road.
Is it worth contesting this ticket?
No, not really. These cameras are calibrated continuously, and they generally have a management company behind them that's incentivized to ensure no tickets are thrown out due to technical error. However, Oregon is one of the few states that treats photo violations as a moving violation by default, so this will affect your insurance rates. You may consider finding out if you can plead guilty by mail to ask for some non-moving violation penalty instead of a moving violation.
posted by saeculorum at 12:55 PM on September 30, 2020 [2 favorites]