Do I have to pay "document fees"?
March 22, 2006 1:46 AM Subscribe
[UK] Buying a new car from a dealership - do I have to pay "document fees"?
I'm about to order a new car. I wanted a brand new 3 door model, but this would incur a 4-6 week wait (they're new and popular). The dealer offered me the 5 door model - which is £300 more expensive - but with free metallic paint (normally £350). I'm happy with all this, but not happy at all with the £150 they want to add for "document fees".
The manufacturer details exactly what their on-the-road price includes on their website (VAT, warranty, roadside assistance, 6 months tax, first registration fee), but it also adds the following :
"Any other costs for the services or goods supplied by agreement between the Dealer and the customer is not included".
So, am I right in assuming that the "docs fees" are just a notional fee added by the dealer to bump up their profit a little? If so, is it worth playing a little hardball with them, and asking them to waive it? I'll be paying "cash" (i.e. lump sum via bank loan), and it's near the end of the month, so they're wanting to hit their targets (and they've said as much, un-prompted). I've already told them I won't be taking them up on their offers of GAP insurance (for double the going rate) and paint / fabric protection (double the going rate, or three times the going rate if I were to do it myself).
Any advice much appreciated.
I'm about to order a new car. I wanted a brand new 3 door model, but this would incur a 4-6 week wait (they're new and popular). The dealer offered me the 5 door model - which is £300 more expensive - but with free metallic paint (normally £350). I'm happy with all this, but not happy at all with the £150 they want to add for "document fees".
The manufacturer details exactly what their on-the-road price includes on their website (VAT, warranty, roadside assistance, 6 months tax, first registration fee), but it also adds the following :
"Any other costs for the services or goods supplied by agreement between the Dealer and the customer is not included".
So, am I right in assuming that the "docs fees" are just a notional fee added by the dealer to bump up their profit a little? If so, is it worth playing a little hardball with them, and asking them to waive it? I'll be paying "cash" (i.e. lump sum via bank loan), and it's near the end of the month, so they're wanting to hit their targets (and they've said as much, un-prompted). I've already told them I won't be taking them up on their offers of GAP insurance (for double the going rate) and paint / fabric protection (double the going rate, or three times the going rate if I were to do it myself).
Any advice much appreciated.
If the dealer is providing you with your plates, then a fee that would normally go to the Registry of motor vehicles could be charged. Some places charge for registering the title. Otherwise tell them you aren't going to pay them to write up a receipt...
posted by Gungho at 4:38 AM on March 22, 2006
posted by Gungho at 4:38 AM on March 22, 2006
If you care about £150, you shouldn't be buying a new car. You'll lose far, far more money just by driving it off the forecourt. Even a year-old or pre-registered car will save you more.
posted by bonaldi at 4:56 AM on March 22, 2006
posted by bonaldi at 4:56 AM on March 22, 2006
I've successfully refused to pay document fees. The salesman hates it but if you make it clear you're not signing the document until he strikes them out, you usually win. No salesman on earth will lose a new car sale over $150 of padding.
You just tell them it's a cost of doing business and they should bear it, not you.
posted by unSane at 5:33 AM on March 22, 2006
You just tell them it's a cost of doing business and they should bear it, not you.
posted by unSane at 5:33 AM on March 22, 2006
My favorite is when they hit you up for advertising fees (in my case 500 bucks) -- as if you should pay for their TV and newspaper spots. Take everything into account (e.g. how badly you want the car, how popular it is, the dealer's inventory situation) and don't be afraid to play hardball. In the best case, you avoid the insulting add-on fees, and in the worst case the dealer proves himself to be, well, just another car salesman.
posted by terrier319 at 6:38 AM on March 22, 2006
posted by terrier319 at 6:38 AM on March 22, 2006
If you care about £150, you shouldn't be buying a new car.
That's just dumb. Just because the poster is spending money on something that you wouldn't buy doesn't mean that he has to sit there and let the dealer take more money he doesn't have to spend. You haggle over the price of new cars too, you know.
posted by mendel at 6:45 AM on March 22, 2006
That's just dumb. Just because the poster is spending money on something that you wouldn't buy doesn't mean that he has to sit there and let the dealer take more money he doesn't have to spend. You haggle over the price of new cars too, you know.
posted by mendel at 6:45 AM on March 22, 2006
I threatened to walk out when presented with document fees back when I was buying a new car in 2000. They let me walk out. The next morning, I went to the other dealer across town where I had cut the same deal for the same model car and bought from them (paying the document fees). I had expected the first dealer to stop me from walking out or to think about it and then call me back, but that never happened. To be fair, I was paying a pretty good price on a Honda Civic, so I think they were already at their minimum level of acceptable profitability. Perhaps if I had being paying a richer price or was buying a more expensive car the fees would have been negotiable.
posted by mullacc at 7:03 AM on March 22, 2006
posted by mullacc at 7:03 AM on March 22, 2006
as an Ex Car Salesman in the US I can tell you document fees, also called processing fees, etc etc are not up for negotiation. At least not at my dealership and the few I have bought from. Often they do not go to the salesman, but to the people in the back of the house that ... actually PROCESS the loan, haha the poor poor souls back there.
I guess you could always try but I very much would expect Mullacc's results.
The biggest thing about buying a new car in todays world is not about price, your going to get the same price for a car give or take 500 bucks if you go to the right places and are somewhat well informed. The real stickler should be about how you feel about the dealer and the quality of their service, both to you and the car once its been sold.
posted by crewshell at 3:26 PM on March 22, 2006
I guess you could always try but I very much would expect Mullacc's results.
The biggest thing about buying a new car in todays world is not about price, your going to get the same price for a car give or take 500 bucks if you go to the right places and are somewhat well informed. The real stickler should be about how you feel about the dealer and the quality of their service, both to you and the car once its been sold.
posted by crewshell at 3:26 PM on March 22, 2006
That's just dumb. Just because the poster is spending money on something that you wouldn't buy doesn't mean that he has to sit there and let the dealer take more money he doesn't have to spend.
No, it's not that I wouldn't buy it, it's that this question stacks up to: Hello? Is that the captain of the Titanic? I'd like to complain that the sink in my bathroom is leaking a little bit.
He's already throwing away a shitload of money, so what's a bit more? If he doesn't have it to spend, he can get a better car for less, through the magic powers of depreciation. I suppose someone has to buy them new, but there's no reason it should be anyone with a brain.
Reminds me of the old Jewish joke:
Q. What are Goyim for?
A: Someone has to pay retail.
posted by bonaldi at 7:08 PM on March 22, 2006
No, it's not that I wouldn't buy it, it's that this question stacks up to: Hello? Is that the captain of the Titanic? I'd like to complain that the sink in my bathroom is leaking a little bit.
He's already throwing away a shitload of money, so what's a bit more? If he doesn't have it to spend, he can get a better car for less, through the magic powers of depreciation. I suppose someone has to buy them new, but there's no reason it should be anyone with a brain.
Reminds me of the old Jewish joke:
Q. What are Goyim for?
A: Someone has to pay retail.
posted by bonaldi at 7:08 PM on March 22, 2006
The reason I refused to pay the document fees was that the first time they were mentioned was when I was presented with the contract of sale. It was an obvious attempt to blindside me and I resented being treated in this way, since I felt my dealings with the salesman had been in good faith up until then.
The theory that 'you're losing a shitload of money so who cares about the $150' is just dumb. On that rationale you might as well just throw a few bucks out the window on the way home too.
posted by unSane at 5:39 AM on March 23, 2006
The theory that 'you're losing a shitload of money so who cares about the $150' is just dumb. On that rationale you might as well just throw a few bucks out the window on the way home too.
posted by unSane at 5:39 AM on March 23, 2006
Ye-es, if you live in the big money-burning factory (ie that going home is an intrinsically money-losing activity).
The theory is "you're losing a shitload of money, so why are you quibbling about a little bit of it? If you care about losing money, save yourself £5000, not £150".
posted by bonaldi at 5:57 AM on March 23, 2006
The theory is "you're losing a shitload of money, so why are you quibbling about a little bit of it? If you care about losing money, save yourself £5000, not £150".
posted by bonaldi at 5:57 AM on March 23, 2006
bonaldi: Posting over and over how stupid you think the original poster is doesn't answer the question and isn't changing his mind about the car, so give it a rest.
If you find it completely impossible to not shut up, pretend that he's asking how to save the fees on a used car. Surely someone with a brain can understand that that's the same problem, right?
posted by mendel at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2006
If you find it completely impossible to not shut up, pretend that he's asking how to save the fees on a used car. Surely someone with a brain can understand that that's the same problem, right?
posted by mendel at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2006
Hey mendel, who knows what's happening with the original poster? He hasn't come back. And I'm only keeping posting to reply to people who call me on it.
Oh wait. I sound like AlexReynolds now. Curses.
But, hey, if he's wanting to save fees on a used car, it's much easier: there are none, because it's already registered etc, so they're defrauding him.
posted by bonaldi at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2006
Oh wait. I sound like AlexReynolds now. Curses.
But, hey, if he's wanting to save fees on a used car, it's much easier: there are none, because it's already registered etc, so they're defrauding him.
posted by bonaldi at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by polyglot at 2:07 AM on March 22, 2006