Best used car in my price range
September 8, 2020 8:49 PM Subscribe
Which of these cars should I actually consider getting?
My current minivan is about to die - yesterday when I stopped at a stop light, the car shook and the engine turned off completely, so I had to shift to park and re-start it. I have a bit of money, for the first time in forever, and have been approved for a $10,000 loan (more if needed), so I'm looking for something in the $12,000 range in the Portland market.
I have a teenage son who lives with me and three young daughters that stay with me every weekend, so I need seating for five. (I also have a 19-year-old daughter, but don't see her much anymore, so she doesn't count in my buying equation.)
I haven't purchased a used car in years, and I have too many choices, so I thought I'd see if anyone on here has positive or negative experiences with these specific cars I am considering. The last similar question was in 2019, but it doesn't list the cars I am looking at, so I made a new question.
2017 Nissan Sentra S - looks really basic, and not very powerful, but would work
2012 Subaru Forester 2.5X Limited - not great gas mileage, but probably not worse than my minivan...
2013 Toyota Corolla LE - I owned a Corolla fifteen years ago and liked it, but this one has 89,000 miles
2014 Toyota Camry - seems fine, but almost 80,000 miles
My question: have you owned one of these? Did you like it? Did you have major problems? Thanks in advance for any advice.
My current minivan is about to die - yesterday when I stopped at a stop light, the car shook and the engine turned off completely, so I had to shift to park and re-start it. I have a bit of money, for the first time in forever, and have been approved for a $10,000 loan (more if needed), so I'm looking for something in the $12,000 range in the Portland market.
I have a teenage son who lives with me and three young daughters that stay with me every weekend, so I need seating for five. (I also have a 19-year-old daughter, but don't see her much anymore, so she doesn't count in my buying equation.)
I haven't purchased a used car in years, and I have too many choices, so I thought I'd see if anyone on here has positive or negative experiences with these specific cars I am considering. The last similar question was in 2019, but it doesn't list the cars I am looking at, so I made a new question.
2017 Nissan Sentra S - looks really basic, and not very powerful, but would work
2012 Subaru Forester 2.5X Limited - not great gas mileage, but probably not worse than my minivan...
2013 Toyota Corolla LE - I owned a Corolla fifteen years ago and liked it, but this one has 89,000 miles
2014 Toyota Camry - seems fine, but almost 80,000 miles
My question: have you owned one of these? Did you like it? Did you have major problems? Thanks in advance for any advice.
I have a 2012 Subaru Forester. Agreed that seating for adults might be a little tight in the back, but I think that would be true for most adults in most cars. And if it’s for three kids or eventually adolescent girls, it’s probably fine.
Except for an airbag recall I have done just regularly scheduled maintenance, seasonal tire swaps and oil changes and it has been super reliable with no surprises. Great handling in Alaska winters, huge amount of space for stuff with the hatchback + easily folding seats in the back. YMMV.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:29 PM on September 8, 2020
Except for an airbag recall I have done just regularly scheduled maintenance, seasonal tire swaps and oil changes and it has been super reliable with no surprises. Great handling in Alaska winters, huge amount of space for stuff with the hatchback + easily folding seats in the back. YMMV.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:29 PM on September 8, 2020
All of these cars look too small. Maybe you should consider another minivan.
posted by oceanjesse at 1:13 AM on September 9, 2020
posted by oceanjesse at 1:13 AM on September 9, 2020
Of all this list I like Subaru most. It's main pros: utility, practicality, simplicity. It's very good variant for its money. But at the same time Camry is a nice option either. It's like a cheap model from premium class.
posted by georgehanson at 3:10 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by georgehanson at 3:10 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
FWIW, 80,000 miles is negligible. Modern cars, especially Japanese cars, last for a good long time. It's not at all unusual to see them eclipsing 200,000 miles or more. All it takes is regular maintenance.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:40 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:40 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would not touch a Nissan product of any age. A Sentra is indeed underpowered. It’s also built out of balsa wood and tin foil. If you can get a standard transmission it’s a safer bet. Nissan automatics are just garbage.
Also wouldn’t touch an 8 year old Forester unless I was sure the motor had been well maintained and had a mechanic triple check the compression. Also a shitty CVT automatic transmission.
On your list, despite the mileage, the Camry is the roomiest and most reliable. 80,000 miles is not much if it’s been well maintained. The Corrolla is likewise sure to go 200k if it’s been well maintained but of course it’s smaller.
The single biggest determinant of longevity for a mid-life used car is whether it was maintained well for its first few years. If you can’t see receipts for the oil changes especially, I would walk away. And no car is bulletproof. You must get a professional pre-purchase inspection on any used car you buy.
Just helped a friend score a great deal on a rather nicely specced 2018 Kia Forte hatch from Hertz car sales. Like 20% below book. Used rental cars from major agencies have been maintained to OEM spec, and often come with additional warranty coverage. This car was pristine — like new — and a smoking great deal. 45k, $11,000. I was half jealous. Check Hertz our and don’t believe the bullshit about rental cars. They’re maintained better than the vast majority of private cars. And they have records to prove it. And despite internet folklore, most people who rent economy cars drive them more carefully than their own cars.
But as a car guy who’s been driving 40 years, I looked at your list and went “Camry, all day long.” I believe it’s roomier than anything else on your list including the Forester. And it really is quite comfortable. They are just such solid cars. There’s a reason they’re legendary for reliability.
Final thoughts: do not ever trust a CarFax report to report the real accident history of a used car. It’s USUALLY wrong. Turn down every extended warranty product you are offered.
posted by spitbull at 4:53 AM on September 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Also wouldn’t touch an 8 year old Forester unless I was sure the motor had been well maintained and had a mechanic triple check the compression. Also a shitty CVT automatic transmission.
On your list, despite the mileage, the Camry is the roomiest and most reliable. 80,000 miles is not much if it’s been well maintained. The Corrolla is likewise sure to go 200k if it’s been well maintained but of course it’s smaller.
The single biggest determinant of longevity for a mid-life used car is whether it was maintained well for its first few years. If you can’t see receipts for the oil changes especially, I would walk away. And no car is bulletproof. You must get a professional pre-purchase inspection on any used car you buy.
Just helped a friend score a great deal on a rather nicely specced 2018 Kia Forte hatch from Hertz car sales. Like 20% below book. Used rental cars from major agencies have been maintained to OEM spec, and often come with additional warranty coverage. This car was pristine — like new — and a smoking great deal. 45k, $11,000. I was half jealous. Check Hertz our and don’t believe the bullshit about rental cars. They’re maintained better than the vast majority of private cars. And they have records to prove it. And despite internet folklore, most people who rent economy cars drive them more carefully than their own cars.
But as a car guy who’s been driving 40 years, I looked at your list and went “Camry, all day long.” I believe it’s roomier than anything else on your list including the Forester. And it really is quite comfortable. They are just such solid cars. There’s a reason they’re legendary for reliability.
Final thoughts: do not ever trust a CarFax report to report the real accident history of a used car. It’s USUALLY wrong. Turn down every extended warranty product you are offered.
posted by spitbull at 4:53 AM on September 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
No seriously a modern Camry is as close to bulletproof as cars get.
posted by spitbull at 5:00 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 5:00 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
As you’re probably aware, you are hardly alone in this search. The late model used car market is on fire right now for various pandemic-related reasons. Prices reflect that. If you can wait even a few months you’ll save money. But if not, you’re looking for something in high demand. The only advantage is your willingness to get a sedan instead of a CUV/SUV. In this environment ripoffs can prevail. Lots of shitty auction cars are flying off lots. We are about to see some relief as the millions of leases that were extended in the first phase of the pandemic are now coming to an end and there will be a ton of 3-4 year old lease returns on dealer lots shortly.
Having helped a bunch of formerly non-car-owning friends buy cars lately, and as someone who routinely browses Craigslist used car listings (“RX-7 under $5000 within 250 miles”!) and autotrader for fun, I really think buying from the Hertz bankruptcy fleet sale is one of the best options going at the moment. I would never ever ever buy from a used car lot dealer. I am very dubious about buying used cars from new car dealers too. I have no experience with Carvana and the like. CarMax sells the same auction-grade mixed-bag of metal as the crap used car dealers, they just charge a 10-20% premium for a less sleazy experience. By far the best deals out there are always going to be private sales. But at the moment Hertz is a really good option for a less challenging purchase experience. They give you a 12 month limited warranty on top of whatever is left on the car, and have a 30 day return for exchange no-questions-asked policy. Those are really valuable.
posted by spitbull at 5:09 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Having helped a bunch of formerly non-car-owning friends buy cars lately, and as someone who routinely browses Craigslist used car listings (“RX-7 under $5000 within 250 miles”!) and autotrader for fun, I really think buying from the Hertz bankruptcy fleet sale is one of the best options going at the moment. I would never ever ever buy from a used car lot dealer. I am very dubious about buying used cars from new car dealers too. I have no experience with Carvana and the like. CarMax sells the same auction-grade mixed-bag of metal as the crap used car dealers, they just charge a 10-20% premium for a less sleazy experience. By far the best deals out there are always going to be private sales. But at the moment Hertz is a really good option for a less challenging purchase experience. They give you a 12 month limited warranty on top of whatever is left on the car, and have a 30 day return for exchange no-questions-asked policy. Those are really valuable.
posted by spitbull at 5:09 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
A last thought: if you buy a used rental fleet car (and most other cars with 50-70k on them), you WILL need to replace the tires soon after buying it. Rare is the owner who replaced them before 50k, and all OEM tires on economy cars are pieces of shit that really should be changed immediately, and rarely have 30k safe miles in them. Budget $600-1000 for new tires. There is no single safety upgrade that improves a used car more. Quality replacement tires will give you 50-70k. Expect to do this.
posted by spitbull at 5:19 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 5:19 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
By the way I have a 2014 Mazda3 that just hit 85k. The motor still gets the same compression as brand new. The fuel mileage is as good as it ever was. There is almost zero rust despite my living in New England. I’ve had to do one major repair (a wheel bearing, that was wear and tear from urban driving), brakes twice, tires, fluids, and am about to do shocks and struts and tires again (as a musician I carry a lot of weight in my car, wears out suspension and tires and brakes faster). Not pitching Mazda, just reassuring you that 80k is not elderly for a modern Japanese economy car.
posted by spitbull at 5:24 AM on September 9, 2020
posted by spitbull at 5:24 AM on September 9, 2020
shook and died, but then re-started no problem? Sounds like it needs a tune-up. Get it diagnosed, for free, from a shop.
4 kids every weekend? You need a mini-van. I miss my Honda Odyssey so much! We mostly kept the right middle seat removed, so we had a lobby for throwing backpacks, changing shoes and clothes, keeping a cooler & box of snacks, pet bed, etc. Or we'd remove all seats but the front 2 and use it as a pickup truck - I've even had a motorcycle in there. Or we'd have all the seats in, but use the middle two as tables since the backs fold fully forward and have trays and cup holders. Great for hanging out during sudden rain storms.
Get a 6 yr old Odyssey! KBB shows $9K - $14K for various trim levels and conditions. It's only a foot longer than a Camry.
posted by at at 5:50 AM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
4 kids every weekend? You need a mini-van. I miss my Honda Odyssey so much! We mostly kept the right middle seat removed, so we had a lobby for throwing backpacks, changing shoes and clothes, keeping a cooler & box of snacks, pet bed, etc. Or we'd remove all seats but the front 2 and use it as a pickup truck - I've even had a motorcycle in there. Or we'd have all the seats in, but use the middle two as tables since the backs fold fully forward and have trays and cup holders. Great for hanging out during sudden rain storms.
Get a 6 yr old Odyssey! KBB shows $9K - $14K for various trim levels and conditions. It's only a foot longer than a Camry.
posted by at at 5:50 AM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'd go Camry, out of the choices you gave. Basic maintenance has kept my parents' 2004 Camry going strong to this day. Great car and it'll seat 5, provided whoever gets the middle seat in the back is relatively small.
You might want to look into a Honda Odyssey, if you think you'll be seating 5 regularly.
Your issue with your current minivan might be a bad sensor or clogged fuel pump. If it's in decent shape other than the stalling issue, it might be worth getting it checked out. If you're looking to save money, it's almost always worth repairing your existing car than buying a new one, especially if it involves you taking on a loan.
posted by vitout at 6:04 AM on September 9, 2020
You might want to look into a Honda Odyssey, if you think you'll be seating 5 regularly.
Your issue with your current minivan might be a bad sensor or clogged fuel pump. If it's in decent shape other than the stalling issue, it might be worth getting it checked out. If you're looking to save money, it's almost always worth repairing your existing car than buying a new one, especially if it involves you taking on a loan.
posted by vitout at 6:04 AM on September 9, 2020
Agree that the minivan option is appealing. They’re unpopular so they aren’t as hot as most used cars right now.
That said, have you had your current vehicle properly evaluated? Plenty of minor problems can cause the symptom you described. It is always better to keep a current car on the road than get a new one, in every way.
posted by spitbull at 6:06 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
That said, have you had your current vehicle properly evaluated? Plenty of minor problems can cause the symptom you described. It is always better to keep a current car on the road than get a new one, in every way.
posted by spitbull at 6:06 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Out of your list Camry, mainly because it is a grade higher than the entry level economy sedans and Subaru you listed.
As the last few comments have repeated, try and look for a minivan. They are valuable if you can confirm their maintenance history and the miles are similar to your list choices. A few years ago, an acquaintance of my father hounded us for our Mercury Villager (!!!) for weeks when we were considering a replacement vehicle. They knew we maintained it well over the years.
posted by Bodrik at 6:10 AM on September 9, 2020
As the last few comments have repeated, try and look for a minivan. They are valuable if you can confirm their maintenance history and the miles are similar to your list choices. A few years ago, an acquaintance of my father hounded us for our Mercury Villager (!!!) for weeks when we were considering a replacement vehicle. They knew we maintained it well over the years.
posted by Bodrik at 6:10 AM on September 9, 2020
With a three-kid family, my parents specifically looked for a car that didn't have a "bump" on the floor in the middle of the backseat. Makes a huge difference for legroom for the fifth person, especially when you've got three teenagers back there.
At the time, they bought a used Honda CRV (which is still hanging on today, with >300k miles!), but that was more than a decade ago and I'm sure options that meet that criterion are different now.
posted by mosst at 6:51 AM on September 9, 2020
At the time, they bought a used Honda CRV (which is still hanging on today, with >300k miles!), but that was more than a decade ago and I'm sure options that meet that criterion are different now.
posted by mosst at 6:51 AM on September 9, 2020
80-90k miles on a Toyota is not an issue; not so much with Subarus.
I'll join the chorus of minivan or SUV, Toyota or Honda specifically. I had a Honda Odyssey that a family member totaled and I still miss it. Or the RAV 4 that the same family member totaled (she isn't allowed to drive my cars now).
Definitely get your minivan looked at, cars are made better now, last longer, and very often worth fixing. Used car appraisals are not precise, but worth checking. Speaking of young drivers and cars getting totaled, it's an option well worth considering.
posted by theora55 at 6:55 AM on September 9, 2020
I'll join the chorus of minivan or SUV, Toyota or Honda specifically. I had a Honda Odyssey that a family member totaled and I still miss it. Or the RAV 4 that the same family member totaled (she isn't allowed to drive my cars now).
Definitely get your minivan looked at, cars are made better now, last longer, and very often worth fixing. Used car appraisals are not precise, but worth checking. Speaking of young drivers and cars getting totaled, it's an option well worth considering.
posted by theora55 at 6:55 AM on September 9, 2020
Depending on how old/high milage your current minivan is, you may just want to get it fixed. Stalling at a light could be something as simple as getting bad gas at your last fill-up. Take it to a trusted mechanic and get a diagnosis.
If you do end up buying another vehicle, you definitely want another minivan. Anything smaller is going to cause fights and heartache. I highly recommend a used Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey. These things are basically bulletproof with proper maintenance.
posted by cosmicbandito at 2:55 PM on September 9, 2020
If you do end up buying another vehicle, you definitely want another minivan. Anything smaller is going to cause fights and heartache. I highly recommend a used Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey. These things are basically bulletproof with proper maintenance.
posted by cosmicbandito at 2:55 PM on September 9, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the great comments.
I considered another minivan, but my son is 17 and planning on buying his first car, plus I rarely have to drive all four of them at once. Usually I am just ferrying three younger girls (ages 9-14) across town. So I was hoping for something smaller with better gas mileage.
My current van is at 198,450 miles, the power steering unit makes a noise when turning right, and something is leaking in the engine, but when I got my oil changed a couple of months ago they said the oil is fine, so I'm assuming it is power steering fluid. It also keeps telling me my seatbelt is off (with a loud DING!) while I am driving with it on, and the tire pressure monitor keeps turning on a dash light, but the pressure is fine. Oh, and sometimes the radio/navigation touch screen just doesn't turn on, which makes me think there's an electrical issue.
So, yeah, it's got problems. I considered a car from Hertz, but I don't want to go through the hassle of selling a van that's falling apart to a private buyer. I'd rather trade it in somewhere.
posted by tacodave at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2020
I considered another minivan, but my son is 17 and planning on buying his first car, plus I rarely have to drive all four of them at once. Usually I am just ferrying three younger girls (ages 9-14) across town. So I was hoping for something smaller with better gas mileage.
My current van is at 198,450 miles, the power steering unit makes a noise when turning right, and something is leaking in the engine, but when I got my oil changed a couple of months ago they said the oil is fine, so I'm assuming it is power steering fluid. It also keeps telling me my seatbelt is off (with a loud DING!) while I am driving with it on, and the tire pressure monitor keeps turning on a dash light, but the pressure is fine. Oh, and sometimes the radio/navigation touch screen just doesn't turn on, which makes me think there's an electrical issue.
So, yeah, it's got problems. I considered a car from Hertz, but I don't want to go through the hassle of selling a van that's falling apart to a private buyer. I'd rather trade it in somewhere.
posted by tacodave at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2020
Cheap used cars will sell in a heartbeat. Craigslist and/or whatever local online listing is popular will make it pretty easy to sell and in the price range that will be it'll go fast (especially if you're pricing it against what you'd get as a trade in.
My dad has been a used car sales manager for nearly 30 years and he swears by rental returns. I agree and Hertz especially is selling cars cheap.
But from that list and with you use case and even if you won't be hauling the full brood often, the camry all day.
posted by VTX at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2020
My dad has been a used car sales manager for nearly 30 years and he swears by rental returns. I agree and Hertz especially is selling cars cheap.
But from that list and with you use case and even if you won't be hauling the full brood often, the camry all day.
posted by VTX at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2020
You can also sell to Carmax or somewhere if you're looking for something closer to the ease of a trade-in. You probably won't get as much as a private party sale, but they're reasonable enough.
posted by mosst at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2020
posted by mosst at 5:41 AM on September 10, 2020
Great advice here. The only thing I have to add that no one else mentioned is that Portland has HILLS, and an automatic transmission should jump up to the top of your list, unless you are that rare person who enjoys dozens of dangerous downhill manual shifting encounters every day.
posted by seasparrow at 8:03 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by seasparrow at 8:03 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Power steering isn’t a huge deal to repair in most cases. And that makes it likely you can sell this thing on Craigslist in an afternoon to the first buyer if you list it low enough but still within range of fair market value, which is almost always much higher than trade-in value. Dollars to donuts an enterprising immigrant takes it off your hands and fixes it (themselves) as a work vehicle and it runs another decade. Minivans are in demand *only* in that market.
If it’s still limping along I would wait another month or two. The market is already settling down a bit as new cars come back into production and lease returns resume. (As long as you don’t want a popular CUV or 3-row
SUV or a new or nearly new pickup, anyway.)
If you get the newest well-maintained Camry you can afford, your next car will run on solar-generated electricity or will be a Mad Max battle tank, depending on how things go.
posted by spitbull at 12:09 PM on September 18, 2020
If it’s still limping along I would wait another month or two. The market is already settling down a bit as new cars come back into production and lease returns resume. (As long as you don’t want a popular CUV or 3-row
SUV or a new or nearly new pickup, anyway.)
If you get the newest well-maintained Camry you can afford, your next car will run on solar-generated electricity or will be a Mad Max battle tank, depending on how things go.
posted by spitbull at 12:09 PM on September 18, 2020
Response by poster: Final update: the wildfires near me kept me from going to the dealership for a few days. When I finally decided to go, the van wouldn't start. I gave it a jump and it started, but when I put it in reverse and pressed the gas, it died.
I started it again and backed out of my parking space, but when I put it in drive, it wouldn't leave 1st gear. Then I noticed the puddle of transmission fluid in the parking spot.
Since we were under a possible fire evacuation order (my address was in Level 1, but Level 2 was only 1/2 mile away) and since I had four of my kids with me, I had no choice but to purchase a new car immediately. So I took a Lyft to the local Toyota dealership and bought the 2013 Corolla.
Fate limited my options, but I've had the car nine days now and am happy with it. Thanks again for the suggestions. I guess my van was in worse shape than I thought...
(Tomorrow a company is coming to buy the dead van for $640 and they will tow it away.)
posted by tacodave at 6:33 PM on September 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I started it again and backed out of my parking space, but when I put it in drive, it wouldn't leave 1st gear. Then I noticed the puddle of transmission fluid in the parking spot.
Since we were under a possible fire evacuation order (my address was in Level 1, but Level 2 was only 1/2 mile away) and since I had four of my kids with me, I had no choice but to purchase a new car immediately. So I took a Lyft to the local Toyota dealership and bought the 2013 Corolla.
Fate limited my options, but I've had the car nine days now and am happy with it. Thanks again for the suggestions. I guess my van was in worse shape than I thought...
(Tomorrow a company is coming to buy the dead van for $640 and they will tow it away.)
posted by tacodave at 6:33 PM on September 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by furtive at 9:41 PM on September 8, 2020