Apartments in the Time of Corona
September 1, 2020 7:57 AM Subscribe
Moving down to Denver and would appreciate any advice about apartment searching from those who know the area, as well as "is this normal?" for some apartments questions
We are moving from northern CO down to Denver for our jobs. I have spoke with my coworker, who lives in the Wash Park neighborhood of Denver, and she tells us "Oh yeah! Y'all will be able to find a two bedroom for $2000 easily right now." And then a random person on reddit said "OH GOD NO. You'll only be able to find a two bedroom for at least $2500."
Zillow and Craigslist give us differing answers, but two bedrooms do hover between $2000-$2500 depending on how updated the apartments are. We are aiming to live in the NW side of Denver (Berkeley, Sunnyside, Highlands, Sloans Lake) because it is a better commute to work (Boulder, for my partner) and it sort of reminds us of old neighborhoods we lived in back east--not too removed from the city but still quiet.
We are looking to move end of October, and I think we are probably looking too early, because nothing is popping up for that time frame, besides a couple places. We had to give 60 day notice so I thought maybe it would be the same in Denver. I regret looking at one of these places now, because now I'm afraid that we're about to lose it when we wanted more time to look around at other apartments when they *hopefully* become available. The tenant broke his lease to move out (he's gone fully remote) and he keeps texting me each day "It's gonna be gone soon! You should apply right now!" and it's making me nervous. It is a great location, for a pretty good price, right in the middle of Berkeley, but it's also a loft with no privacy, when we were hoping to have a second room for guests or an office.
I applied just in case, but I want to give ourselves more time before we sign anything to look at places as they hopefully pop up closer to October. If we're getting this much pressure that it's gonna go (yet, the posting has been up since August 1...?) we're afraid we're going to regret it and lose it, but we have not seen any other places yet--because they're not available. This is just one of the rare ones that happen to be available in November, but advertised now.
Questions:
Would it be stupid to wait and look for more apartments closer to our move in date or is Denver the kind of place where once you find an OK spot, you gotta get it because you'll never find a spot again? (I'm thinking like DC or NYC areas where friends told me it is so hard to find a place.) We are willing to go up to $2300 for a place in the NW area. Is it reasonable to find a place in NW Denver (with laundry in the place, hopefully two bedrooms) for this price? Are rental prices decreasing at all right now due to COVID?
Also, a "is this normal" question: One place we found with a private landlord on Zillow said they would only give us a showing if we applied first, which involves a $40 fee per person, and also giving your social for a background check. I'm used to that after the showing and you've decided you want to apply. But is this maybe a Denver thing where you have to apply before? If that's normal, then OK, we'll do it. But it doesn't make me feel very comfortable to do, especially shelling out $80 each time we're interested in a place.
Thanks all x
We are moving from northern CO down to Denver for our jobs. I have spoke with my coworker, who lives in the Wash Park neighborhood of Denver, and she tells us "Oh yeah! Y'all will be able to find a two bedroom for $2000 easily right now." And then a random person on reddit said "OH GOD NO. You'll only be able to find a two bedroom for at least $2500."
Zillow and Craigslist give us differing answers, but two bedrooms do hover between $2000-$2500 depending on how updated the apartments are. We are aiming to live in the NW side of Denver (Berkeley, Sunnyside, Highlands, Sloans Lake) because it is a better commute to work (Boulder, for my partner) and it sort of reminds us of old neighborhoods we lived in back east--not too removed from the city but still quiet.
We are looking to move end of October, and I think we are probably looking too early, because nothing is popping up for that time frame, besides a couple places. We had to give 60 day notice so I thought maybe it would be the same in Denver. I regret looking at one of these places now, because now I'm afraid that we're about to lose it when we wanted more time to look around at other apartments when they *hopefully* become available. The tenant broke his lease to move out (he's gone fully remote) and he keeps texting me each day "It's gonna be gone soon! You should apply right now!" and it's making me nervous. It is a great location, for a pretty good price, right in the middle of Berkeley, but it's also a loft with no privacy, when we were hoping to have a second room for guests or an office.
I applied just in case, but I want to give ourselves more time before we sign anything to look at places as they hopefully pop up closer to October. If we're getting this much pressure that it's gonna go (yet, the posting has been up since August 1...?) we're afraid we're going to regret it and lose it, but we have not seen any other places yet--because they're not available. This is just one of the rare ones that happen to be available in November, but advertised now.
Questions:
Would it be stupid to wait and look for more apartments closer to our move in date or is Denver the kind of place where once you find an OK spot, you gotta get it because you'll never find a spot again? (I'm thinking like DC or NYC areas where friends told me it is so hard to find a place.) We are willing to go up to $2300 for a place in the NW area. Is it reasonable to find a place in NW Denver (with laundry in the place, hopefully two bedrooms) for this price? Are rental prices decreasing at all right now due to COVID?
Also, a "is this normal" question: One place we found with a private landlord on Zillow said they would only give us a showing if we applied first, which involves a $40 fee per person, and also giving your social for a background check. I'm used to that after the showing and you've decided you want to apply. But is this maybe a Denver thing where you have to apply before? If that's normal, then OK, we'll do it. But it doesn't make me feel very comfortable to do, especially shelling out $80 each time we're interested in a place.
Thanks all x
I haven’t rented in Denver for a few years, but as a long-time tenant there, 30 days notice is definitely the norm in the city. When I last moved, I looked in early November for December move-ins (in a less insane rental market, admittedly).
posted by heurtebise at 8:30 AM on September 1, 2020
posted by heurtebise at 8:30 AM on September 1, 2020
For your budget, you might also look for houses for rent. Arvada or Wheat Ridge might be slightly cheaper. Old Town Arvada has some walkability and is still nice.
You might also consider renting in Lafayette, a really short commute to Boulder but with more of a small town feel. I used to rent a house in Lafayette with W/D for 2200/mo on a lease that ended earlier in 2020.
posted by rachelpapers at 8:54 AM on September 1, 2020
You might also consider renting in Lafayette, a really short commute to Boulder but with more of a small town feel. I used to rent a house in Lafayette with W/D for 2200/mo on a lease that ended earlier in 2020.
posted by rachelpapers at 8:54 AM on September 1, 2020
I've moved twice within Denver, and actually had to give 60 days notice. BUT when applying for apartments it's different. If they have notice that someone is moving out in your time frame, they will usually hold it for up to about two weeks after that. But I found those types of situations to be pretty scarce. Otherwise, if an apartment was vacant, they would hold it for only two weeks. So if you find an apartment where someone has given notice that roughly lines up with your move, that could work out, otherwise you will need to apply for places as the date gets closer.
I have not lived in those neighborhoods, but I have not experienced Denver to be like NY or DC in that respect. Renting can be expensive, but I have not personally had any trouble finding apartments (especially in the bigger apartment buildings, I haven't been with a private landlord) or experienced a shortage. $2k to $2.5k sounds in the right ballpark for 2 bed 2 bath, but again, I'm in different neighborhoods. I have seen at least some decreases due to Covid, so maybe you could get even cheaper, but that was a few months ago, and I'm not sure if it lasted.
And no, applying and paying before viewing the apartment is NOT normal.
As for the tenant texting you, did you find the place through him? If so, he probably gets a break on part of his lease-breaking fee if he finds a new tenant within a certain time frame, hence the urgency. He doesn't want to pay $$$$$$$ to break his lease.
posted by sillysally at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have not lived in those neighborhoods, but I have not experienced Denver to be like NY or DC in that respect. Renting can be expensive, but I have not personally had any trouble finding apartments (especially in the bigger apartment buildings, I haven't been with a private landlord) or experienced a shortage. $2k to $2.5k sounds in the right ballpark for 2 bed 2 bath, but again, I'm in different neighborhoods. I have seen at least some decreases due to Covid, so maybe you could get even cheaper, but that was a few months ago, and I'm not sure if it lasted.
And no, applying and paying before viewing the apartment is NOT normal.
As for the tenant texting you, did you find the place through him? If so, he probably gets a break on part of his lease-breaking fee if he finds a new tenant within a certain time frame, hence the urgency. He doesn't want to pay $$$$$$$ to break his lease.
posted by sillysally at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, a "is this normal" question: One place we found with a private landlord on Zillow said they would only give us a showing if we applied first, which involves a $40 fee per person, and also giving your social for a background check. I'm used to that after the showing and you've decided you want to apply. But is this maybe a Denver thing where you have to apply before? If that's normal, then OK, we'll do it. But it doesn't make me feel very comfortable to do, especially shelling out $80 each time we're interested in a place.
Oh, no that's not normal at all. In fact it is a common scam on Craigslist.
What IS becoming normal (though irritating) is to have someone require some type of payment with the application which is nonrefundable if you're approved--whether or not you take the unit. But this should only ever happen AFTER a viewing, and if the landlords are pushy about requiring an application at the time of viewing, before you've had time to think over/discuss the apartment, bail.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh, no that's not normal at all. In fact it is a common scam on Craigslist.
What IS becoming normal (though irritating) is to have someone require some type of payment with the application which is nonrefundable if you're approved--whether or not you take the unit. But this should only ever happen AFTER a viewing, and if the landlords are pushy about requiring an application at the time of viewing, before you've had time to think over/discuss the apartment, bail.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've found apartment-hunting more than 60 days out completely pointless, as availability isn't known at all by then. I would start hunting 40 days out.
posted by bbqturtle at 11:21 AM on September 1, 2020
posted by bbqturtle at 11:21 AM on September 1, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks all! Ok, will avoid that private landlord who wants us to apply first before we see the place. He said he'd never see our SSN as it's through Zillow, but paying these fees doesn't sit right with me. We will perhaps hold off on looking for an apartment until we're 30-40 days out.
@Rachelpapers, we did consider living outside of Denver, but we are moving to the city to be in a city. We are not enjoying smaller town life!
@sillysally, I did not find it through him but through Craigslist, but that makes sense about the urgency.
A follow-up question, if we did apply for this one apartment (the one with the tenant texting) and go through with the background check, that doesn't mean we're obligated to sign the lease, right? I think we are now wanting to take our time and look for other options, but feeling the pressure. I know any app fees won't be refundable but I'm hoping I didn't pre-lock into a lease through doing the application (I didn't see language about it) but from what the tenant and landlord are saying, I'm feeling off...
posted by socky bottoms at 12:23 PM on September 1, 2020
@Rachelpapers, we did consider living outside of Denver, but we are moving to the city to be in a city. We are not enjoying smaller town life!
@sillysally, I did not find it through him but through Craigslist, but that makes sense about the urgency.
A follow-up question, if we did apply for this one apartment (the one with the tenant texting) and go through with the background check, that doesn't mean we're obligated to sign the lease, right? I think we are now wanting to take our time and look for other options, but feeling the pressure. I know any app fees won't be refundable but I'm hoping I didn't pre-lock into a lease through doing the application (I didn't see language about it) but from what the tenant and landlord are saying, I'm feeling off...
posted by socky bottoms at 12:23 PM on September 1, 2020
I would just ask via email. If they confirm that applying doesn't necessarily equate to signing a lease (which it shouldn't) then that email reply would let you back out of any other weird fees / issues related to the contract.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2020
posted by bbqturtle at 1:08 PM on September 1, 2020
I've never lived in Denver but I have moved around a fair bit. My suggestion is to find an affordable place in an ok location. Then, after 6 months to 1 year when you've learned your way around the city and the seasons etc, you'll be in a much better position to decide where you want to live long term and you'll have better contacts for actually finding a place and you'll be able to check them all out in person before applying.
The key to this approach is acknowledging that the first place is going to be far from perfect and is only a stepping stone.
posted by McNulty at 1:41 PM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
The key to this approach is acknowledging that the first place is going to be far from perfect and is only a stepping stone.
posted by McNulty at 1:41 PM on September 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: No, if you go through the background checks you shouldn’t be obligated to sign the lease, but obviously read whatever you sign, and asking via email is a good suggestion if you are worried about it. You would normally just lose whatever money you paid for the application and/or background check. They’ll probably be salty about it because they are probably holding the apartment for you, but that’s why they usually will only hold it a day or two between approval and signing the lease. If you don’t end up signing, at that point they would release it if someone else wanted it.
When you contacted the craigslist ad, is that what put you in touch with the current tenant? I’m thinking it would be unusual for you to be texting the tenant if the craigslist ad was put up by the landlord. That’s what makes me think it was an ad by the tenant who is trying to not have to pay his full lease break penalty.
(For reference I had to break my last lease, which required giving 60 days notice AND paying $2000 which was well over my monthly rent. If I had found a subletter, it would have “only” been a $500 fee to transfer the lease to them)
Feel free to memail me if you have more specific questions, although I’m not as familiar with those neighborhoods, and just be warned I am not good at checking memail every day :)
posted by sillysally at 9:39 PM on September 1, 2020
When you contacted the craigslist ad, is that what put you in touch with the current tenant? I’m thinking it would be unusual for you to be texting the tenant if the craigslist ad was put up by the landlord. That’s what makes me think it was an ad by the tenant who is trying to not have to pay his full lease break penalty.
(For reference I had to break my last lease, which required giving 60 days notice AND paying $2000 which was well over my monthly rent. If I had found a subletter, it would have “only” been a $500 fee to transfer the lease to them)
Feel free to memail me if you have more specific questions, although I’m not as familiar with those neighborhoods, and just be warned I am not good at checking memail every day :)
posted by sillysally at 9:39 PM on September 1, 2020
Best answer: I live in the Berkeley neighborhood and am an unwilling "landlord" for our in-laws' house which they are currently renting out in the same neighborhood, and have been for a few years. (They're unable to do so.)
While rental market availability is not quite as bad in the area (and Denver as a whole) as it's been the last few years, it is still a very limited market, particularly in this area and the other areas you've mentioned, as they are some of *the* places to live in Denver. (We bought before it blew up - there's no way we could afford our home here now.) It's very popular for just the reasons you described, and I love it for those reasons too, but there's been . . . A LOT of development. Most of the parks have become very crowded (especially Sloan's Lake), for example. In other words, while you will eventually find a place, you have to be prepared for possibly losing out on some places you like or for the selection to be limited. Just to give you a clue, our in-laws house is only 800 sq feet, but is 2 blocks from Tennyson (the heart of Berkeley), and we had over 50 interested people the first two days when it was available last fall - that is, people who cared enough to schedule a visit. That doesn't count the other contacts, and we actually had 3 applications within the first morning.
But that was last year. Things have changed, but nobody is sure how. Two things are for sure - a lot (but not all) of the new construction has stalled or slowed, which maybe due to supply chains and less economics but ? And two, with the certainty of remote work being put into place at many companies, numerous people are bailing on living in places like Texas or high COL places like SF and moving here. I can't believe how many people I've heard from recently that intend on moving to "the mountains" or *have* moved. It's possible that any economic destabilization that Denver undergoes from job losses may balance itself out (and there's certainly been a frenzy of home buying!). But the rates you quoted sounds about right for current rates in the neighborhood. (There's an apartment building up the street which has I think is 500ish sq feet, 1 bedroom/1 bath, street parking only, and is currently advertising for 2800. It has "charm" though, I guess? It's too much, IMHO.) But let's just put it this way: this neighborhood has homes selling in the 1.2 -1.5 million range, regularly, and some home have sold for 2 million plus. Still. Like currently. Like I said, it's an "it" neighborhood. And that's pretty much the same in the entire NW corner you mentioned. So expect rental rates for apartments and houses to match.
(I could also go into the condo market here, a rant if you will, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the rental rates are due to condo owners unable to afford their very expensive places, moving out, and then renting out for way too much. There is definitely a bubble.)
Also as a landlord here rentals in the popular neighborhoods are a frequent target of scammers "scraping" the ads and advertising on their own. So as mentioned, yes, it was probably a regular ol' CL scam. I would not trust anyone who required any kind of money prior to viewing the place, period. (Our process is to charge an application fee, which is 80% for the background check (and we use a service that means we do NOT see your SSN!) and 20% to make sure only serious applicants apply. So not that much $$. And we refund the background check fee if for some reason the application doesn't check out (like they clearly didn't read the "no pets"). But being willing to get a background check does not mean in any way you are obligated to sign a lease!
One thing I would add is that you've limited yourself a little bit. Some of the places mentioned earlier would be way better for the Boulder commute and are not "small towns" at all. They have walkability in some areas to "night life" with quiet neighborhoods, but are definitely attached to Denver. In fact, in Arvada in many neighborhoods you would be a lot closer to the train to take into downtown for city life, as well as better access to the Boulder turnpike in others (fighting rush hour traffic on Sheridan, Federal, and Wadsworth is not fun, and same for driving to I-25/I-76 etc.). I would really encourage you to drive (or do the bus or the combo) from this area *during rush hour traffic* just to get an idea of what this commute would be like, especially from Sloan's Lake area, and then decide from there. (FYI Arvada has a FANTASTIC parks and rec system, to the point that we pay a membership fee so we can access it and are willing to travel there!) Westminster and Broomfield also has some nice neighborhoods that are quiet, too, if not *quite* the same walkability. I totally get why you like this area, but expanding your search area a little bit will also increase the number of places available for you to look at, which at that time of year might be a good idea.
Send me a memail if you have any additional questions!
posted by barchan at 9:51 PM on September 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
While rental market availability is not quite as bad in the area (and Denver as a whole) as it's been the last few years, it is still a very limited market, particularly in this area and the other areas you've mentioned, as they are some of *the* places to live in Denver. (We bought before it blew up - there's no way we could afford our home here now.) It's very popular for just the reasons you described, and I love it for those reasons too, but there's been . . . A LOT of development. Most of the parks have become very crowded (especially Sloan's Lake), for example. In other words, while you will eventually find a place, you have to be prepared for possibly losing out on some places you like or for the selection to be limited. Just to give you a clue, our in-laws house is only 800 sq feet, but is 2 blocks from Tennyson (the heart of Berkeley), and we had over 50 interested people the first two days when it was available last fall - that is, people who cared enough to schedule a visit. That doesn't count the other contacts, and we actually had 3 applications within the first morning.
But that was last year. Things have changed, but nobody is sure how. Two things are for sure - a lot (but not all) of the new construction has stalled or slowed, which maybe due to supply chains and less economics but ? And two, with the certainty of remote work being put into place at many companies, numerous people are bailing on living in places like Texas or high COL places like SF and moving here. I can't believe how many people I've heard from recently that intend on moving to "the mountains" or *have* moved. It's possible that any economic destabilization that Denver undergoes from job losses may balance itself out (and there's certainly been a frenzy of home buying!). But the rates you quoted sounds about right for current rates in the neighborhood. (There's an apartment building up the street which has I think is 500ish sq feet, 1 bedroom/1 bath, street parking only, and is currently advertising for 2800. It has "charm" though, I guess? It's too much, IMHO.) But let's just put it this way: this neighborhood has homes selling in the 1.2 -1.5 million range, regularly, and some home have sold for 2 million plus. Still. Like currently. Like I said, it's an "it" neighborhood. And that's pretty much the same in the entire NW corner you mentioned. So expect rental rates for apartments and houses to match.
(I could also go into the condo market here, a rant if you will, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the rental rates are due to condo owners unable to afford their very expensive places, moving out, and then renting out for way too much. There is definitely a bubble.)
Also as a landlord here rentals in the popular neighborhoods are a frequent target of scammers "scraping" the ads and advertising on their own. So as mentioned, yes, it was probably a regular ol' CL scam. I would not trust anyone who required any kind of money prior to viewing the place, period. (Our process is to charge an application fee, which is 80% for the background check (and we use a service that means we do NOT see your SSN!) and 20% to make sure only serious applicants apply. So not that much $$. And we refund the background check fee if for some reason the application doesn't check out (like they clearly didn't read the "no pets"). But being willing to get a background check does not mean in any way you are obligated to sign a lease!
One thing I would add is that you've limited yourself a little bit. Some of the places mentioned earlier would be way better for the Boulder commute and are not "small towns" at all. They have walkability in some areas to "night life" with quiet neighborhoods, but are definitely attached to Denver. In fact, in Arvada in many neighborhoods you would be a lot closer to the train to take into downtown for city life, as well as better access to the Boulder turnpike in others (fighting rush hour traffic on Sheridan, Federal, and Wadsworth is not fun, and same for driving to I-25/I-76 etc.). I would really encourage you to drive (or do the bus or the combo) from this area *during rush hour traffic* just to get an idea of what this commute would be like, especially from Sloan's Lake area, and then decide from there. (FYI Arvada has a FANTASTIC parks and rec system, to the point that we pay a membership fee so we can access it and are willing to travel there!) Westminster and Broomfield also has some nice neighborhoods that are quiet, too, if not *quite* the same walkability. I totally get why you like this area, but expanding your search area a little bit will also increase the number of places available for you to look at, which at that time of year might be a good idea.
Send me a memail if you have any additional questions!
posted by barchan at 9:51 PM on September 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by juniperesque at 8:05 AM on September 1, 2020 [2 favorites]