Desperately seeking a way to be alive.
August 31, 2020 2:00 PM Subscribe
I am a 30-something female with ADHD and a first generation immigrant with no family. I’ve hit a wall in my life and I don’t know what to do. I’m scared and sad and needing to ask this question feels a little like rock bottom. Can anybody help? Details inside.
Have been living/working in a foreign country for my entire adult life. To say that I’ve struggled hard is an understatement. A late 20s ADHD diagnosis changed everything and shed light on why things have been so hard. For a very long time my days have felt like a broken record. I desperately want this to change.
I’ve been medicated for multiple years, on a consistent dosage. (Current dose feels clear, any higher feels speedy and has diminishing returns.) Was previously meeting with a psychiatrist that only really wanted to know about potential side effects. Everything still feels really hard. Sometimes I can do the things, but a lot of days I can’t. I use a heavily stripped back Bullet Journal type system in a notebook to try and keep track of tasks/notes/events/habits. It kind of works, but sometimes I miss days or get bored and don’t use it or write down the task but never do it. I can’t seem to find a reason ‘why’. Sometimes I have a rare and beautiful day where I am so productive and feel amazing.
I struggle with sticking to a schedule. Creating one is easy, but putting it into practice is near impossible. I struggle with leaving the house (even pre-pandemic). I struggle with keeping in regular contact with friends and loved ones. I try to manage varying degrees of anxiety, day-to-day. I feel bored/numb with everything, even though I have big dreams and consider myself to be capable, talented, and resourceful. My hopes feel so far away that I honestly can’t imagine a timeline in which they are achieved. Most days I feel like I don’t really know what I want anymore, and maybe I never did.
I am currently unemployed. I was fired from my last job and a messy legal battle followed. I haven’t been able to mentally or emotionally face going back to work since. That workplace was unkind and traumatic, and just like so many others I’ve experienced already. (I’ve been working since the age of 16 and have held 20+ different jobs.) I sometimes entertain the notion of returning to university, but I have multiple failed attempts at that too. I have lots of interests, but I don’t know what to study or do. No single subject, career, or direction ‘feels’ right or comfortable.
I am currently receiving psychotherapy (Psychodynamics) because it’s what was available through my GP. I’m only two months in, approximately eight sessions. I can’t tell if it’s helping. I can’t seem to articulate specifically what’s wrong or what could help. I know I don’t want to feel like this anymore. I know I don’t want to live the same day over and over again. I’m tired and lost. It feels like I’ve watched every ADHD related video on YouTube, read all the ADHD coach blogs, flipped through every ADHD book recommendation, listened to every ADHD podcast, read every ADHD subreddit, pin, tweet, tumblr post, worksheet, peer-reviewed neuropsych/cognitive science article, etc.
I’ve been near obsessively trying to find a system or some advice that helps for years now. I feel like there’s nothing left to try, or maybe there’s just nothing that will help me.
Has anyone else ever been here and then left this state of being? How did it get better for you? What were your methods? Will anything help? At this point I will legitimately consider any and all suggestions posted here or sent to me at: MetaAnswers@betterment.33mail.com
Have been living/working in a foreign country for my entire adult life. To say that I’ve struggled hard is an understatement. A late 20s ADHD diagnosis changed everything and shed light on why things have been so hard. For a very long time my days have felt like a broken record. I desperately want this to change.
I’ve been medicated for multiple years, on a consistent dosage. (Current dose feels clear, any higher feels speedy and has diminishing returns.) Was previously meeting with a psychiatrist that only really wanted to know about potential side effects. Everything still feels really hard. Sometimes I can do the things, but a lot of days I can’t. I use a heavily stripped back Bullet Journal type system in a notebook to try and keep track of tasks/notes/events/habits. It kind of works, but sometimes I miss days or get bored and don’t use it or write down the task but never do it. I can’t seem to find a reason ‘why’. Sometimes I have a rare and beautiful day where I am so productive and feel amazing.
I struggle with sticking to a schedule. Creating one is easy, but putting it into practice is near impossible. I struggle with leaving the house (even pre-pandemic). I struggle with keeping in regular contact with friends and loved ones. I try to manage varying degrees of anxiety, day-to-day. I feel bored/numb with everything, even though I have big dreams and consider myself to be capable, talented, and resourceful. My hopes feel so far away that I honestly can’t imagine a timeline in which they are achieved. Most days I feel like I don’t really know what I want anymore, and maybe I never did.
I am currently unemployed. I was fired from my last job and a messy legal battle followed. I haven’t been able to mentally or emotionally face going back to work since. That workplace was unkind and traumatic, and just like so many others I’ve experienced already. (I’ve been working since the age of 16 and have held 20+ different jobs.) I sometimes entertain the notion of returning to university, but I have multiple failed attempts at that too. I have lots of interests, but I don’t know what to study or do. No single subject, career, or direction ‘feels’ right or comfortable.
I am currently receiving psychotherapy (Psychodynamics) because it’s what was available through my GP. I’m only two months in, approximately eight sessions. I can’t tell if it’s helping. I can’t seem to articulate specifically what’s wrong or what could help. I know I don’t want to feel like this anymore. I know I don’t want to live the same day over and over again. I’m tired and lost. It feels like I’ve watched every ADHD related video on YouTube, read all the ADHD coach blogs, flipped through every ADHD book recommendation, listened to every ADHD podcast, read every ADHD subreddit, pin, tweet, tumblr post, worksheet, peer-reviewed neuropsych/cognitive science article, etc.
I’ve been near obsessively trying to find a system or some advice that helps for years now. I feel like there’s nothing left to try, or maybe there’s just nothing that will help me.
Has anyone else ever been here and then left this state of being? How did it get better for you? What were your methods? Will anything help? At this point I will legitimately consider any and all suggestions posted here or sent to me at: MetaAnswers@betterment.33mail.com
ADHD is very often comorbid with anxiety and depression. Treating the ADHD can help with those, but it may very well be true that you need treatment for more than just the ADHD. Especially if your life is otherwise hard and precarious and stressful!
posted by restless_nomad at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2020 [27 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2020 [27 favorites]
I have a friend who was in a very similar situation as yourself (instead of "no family" she has her spouse and that is it, she's estranged from her family of origin and they don't live nearby) and for many years she thought she had ADHD and was treating it with ADHD meds.
In the last year or so, she realized she actually has complex PTSD, and in treating that was able to get off all her ADHD medications and her quality of life/outlook has improved quite a lot. PTSD can be caused by a lot of things - you don't need to be sent to a battlefront to get it - in her case, she was raised by a mentally ill parent, whose behavior/communication style affected her mental health quite a lot.
Other common things that could cause PTSD: losing a loved one or a family member, experiencing a serious illness or injury/accident, giving childbirth with complications, being the victim of a crime, being in an abusive or controlling relationship, having to leave your home quickly under stressful circumstances (being a political or economic refugee)
My friend would absolutely have described herself as feeling bored/numb to everything but also believing she is capable, deserving, resourceful. I've known her since we were kids and she is definitely someone who is curious and smart and interested in a lot of things. It turns out the PTSD was causing enough dissociation that it was interfering with her executive function, which led to anxiety as well, because she could feel things spiraling out of control when she wasn't able to focus on them/keep track of life stuff. She also experienced sleep issues and chronic pain from PTSD which interfered with her ability to focus at work.
You can treat PTSD with a variety of things: medication, talk therapy, EMDR, bodywork such as somatic experiencing/myofascial release. Trauma focused therapy is not about rehashing old relationships and memories and analyzing them, it's about short circuiting your nervous system's response to stressors, so you can have a normal parasympathetic baseline again and be able to sleep, concentrate, focus, etc. with less struggle. The nervous system needs to be met by any treatment where it's at - you can't force to comply using just willpower in the form of schedules and to do lists. But if you can heal and rebalance it with the help of a therapist who understands the physiology, you will find that difficult things get easier.
posted by zdravo at 2:26 PM on August 31, 2020 [44 favorites]
In the last year or so, she realized she actually has complex PTSD, and in treating that was able to get off all her ADHD medications and her quality of life/outlook has improved quite a lot. PTSD can be caused by a lot of things - you don't need to be sent to a battlefront to get it - in her case, she was raised by a mentally ill parent, whose behavior/communication style affected her mental health quite a lot.
Other common things that could cause PTSD: losing a loved one or a family member, experiencing a serious illness or injury/accident, giving childbirth with complications, being the victim of a crime, being in an abusive or controlling relationship, having to leave your home quickly under stressful circumstances (being a political or economic refugee)
My friend would absolutely have described herself as feeling bored/numb to everything but also believing she is capable, deserving, resourceful. I've known her since we were kids and she is definitely someone who is curious and smart and interested in a lot of things. It turns out the PTSD was causing enough dissociation that it was interfering with her executive function, which led to anxiety as well, because she could feel things spiraling out of control when she wasn't able to focus on them/keep track of life stuff. She also experienced sleep issues and chronic pain from PTSD which interfered with her ability to focus at work.
You can treat PTSD with a variety of things: medication, talk therapy, EMDR, bodywork such as somatic experiencing/myofascial release. Trauma focused therapy is not about rehashing old relationships and memories and analyzing them, it's about short circuiting your nervous system's response to stressors, so you can have a normal parasympathetic baseline again and be able to sleep, concentrate, focus, etc. with less struggle. The nervous system needs to be met by any treatment where it's at - you can't force to comply using just willpower in the form of schedules and to do lists. But if you can heal and rebalance it with the help of a therapist who understands the physiology, you will find that difficult things get easier.
posted by zdravo at 2:26 PM on August 31, 2020 [44 favorites]
Like others say, it's very common for people to have ADHD symptoms as well as Anxiety and Depression symptoms. It sounds like you've already tried everything you can think of for ADHD, so I would recommend trying to work on your anxiety more directly.
As you're already seeing a psychotherapist, I would just bring this up with them directly at your next session. Anxiety/depression is definitely something that can be addressed with psychotherapy, and it's possible that by focusing so heavily on ADHD you have been missing out on options. A good psychotherapist should be able to easily integrate request to work on anxiety into your therapy. If that doesn't work, I would look into other types of body-related therapy like zdravo suggests
posted by JZig at 2:33 PM on August 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
As you're already seeing a psychotherapist, I would just bring this up with them directly at your next session. Anxiety/depression is definitely something that can be addressed with psychotherapy, and it's possible that by focusing so heavily on ADHD you have been missing out on options. A good psychotherapist should be able to easily integrate request to work on anxiety into your therapy. If that doesn't work, I would look into other types of body-related therapy like zdravo suggests
posted by JZig at 2:33 PM on August 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
Apparently a lot of autistic women are misdiagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, and/or depression, because autism presents so very differently in adult women than it does in 6-year-old boys.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
One possible non-medical / more community-focused source of guidance:
Puttylike is a site for people with many and varied interests and pursuits — whom they call multipotentialites or multipots. Through that lens they write about productivity, mental health, and other related topics.
It seems like their real value proposition is a paid community site, “The Puttytribe,” which looks like this. Puttytribe membership isn't free, but they do grant limited free memberships. Here's the Puttytribe FAQ.
Seems like it could be a good way to feel more supported in the difficulties you're experiencing.
And then my personal tip is this:
Figure out what annoys you enough that you'll always address it, and use that to hack your own behavior.
If there's something you want to make sure that you'll do, leave yourself a prompt that will make your brain itch until you've taken care of it.
posted by D.Billy at 3:19 PM on August 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
Puttylike is a site for people with many and varied interests and pursuits — whom they call multipotentialites or multipots. Through that lens they write about productivity, mental health, and other related topics.
It seems like their real value proposition is a paid community site, “The Puttytribe,” which looks like this. Puttytribe membership isn't free, but they do grant limited free memberships. Here's the Puttytribe FAQ.
Seems like it could be a good way to feel more supported in the difficulties you're experiencing.
And then my personal tip is this:
Figure out what annoys you enough that you'll always address it, and use that to hack your own behavior.
If there's something you want to make sure that you'll do, leave yourself a prompt that will make your brain itch until you've taken care of it.
posted by D.Billy at 3:19 PM on August 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
I agree whole-heartedly with zdravo's comment—it could be PTSD. Or both, or anxiety/depression, or a "combo platter" as my psychiatrist says (I'm diagnosed ADHD). Really, these are all medical words for "someone who struggles to fit into the world as it is." And it's a brutal world.
Treatments vary depending on formal diagnosis, of course, so maybe exploring whether trauma is the root of this might be helpful for you.
One thing that helped me process trauma? Psychedelics (LSD and mushrooms). Taken in a therapeutic mindset with someone who understood psychedelics as medicine—not a formally trained person, though those do exist nowadays, depending on where you live. They helped me come to grips with the medical trauma from my childhood that I wrote off as too benign to cause PTSD, and kicked me off on a path to write a new story for my life. I'm not "cured" and don't really expect to be... but, small steps.
I wish you all the best. Feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk.
posted by gold bridges at 3:23 PM on August 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
Treatments vary depending on formal diagnosis, of course, so maybe exploring whether trauma is the root of this might be helpful for you.
One thing that helped me process trauma? Psychedelics (LSD and mushrooms). Taken in a therapeutic mindset with someone who understood psychedelics as medicine—not a formally trained person, though those do exist nowadays, depending on where you live. They helped me come to grips with the medical trauma from my childhood that I wrote off as too benign to cause PTSD, and kicked me off on a path to write a new story for my life. I'm not "cured" and don't really expect to be... but, small steps.
I wish you all the best. Feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk.
posted by gold bridges at 3:23 PM on August 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
Just another voice to suggest that your diagnosis isn't as clean-cut as treatment systems want it to be, and that if you feel like this, it's likely your current treatment isn't working for you - it's either the wrong thing, or it's not addressing everything.
I think Job #1 is to make sure your therapist has a fair shot at giving you what you need, which means you need to tell them that you feel like this. Take them this question printed out, or read it to them. You'd be surprised how many times you think you're having a complete conversation but the other person is only catching a percentage of what you're trying to convey. At least do that before trying again with someone else, though you may have to do that too.
I would encourage you to talk to them about trauma (because your most recent employment experience was traumatic, and it's probably not the only instance), talk about anything you have going on without putting it all in the ADHD bucket.
Obviously nobody can diagnose you here, but I can tell you that I have known so so many women who frequently talked about inconsistent executive function, exhausting amounts of effort to just barely fit in or meet expectations or behave, inability to find goals or know what to do with their lives, often having repeated patterns of exiting work/school/personal relationships under poor circumstances (that were often rooted in being exploited, but they tended not to see it or at least not until it was too late) which I wonder about your job history, and the ultimate at least partial answer if they ever got one was either more serious neurodivergence than "just" ADHD, a cyclical mood disorder, C-PTSD, an autoimmune disease, or more than one of the above. It took enormous amounts of effort to get through sexist (et cetera) bullshit to get seen and diagnosed by someone willing to pay attention.
I just don't really believe in most people only - or simply - having ADHD. And I don't think you can grow up with ADHD without incurring quite serious trauma along the way, and without also having depression and anxiety that should be treated on their own merits and not as a symptom or barely-material side effect. Your question sounds like it was written by someone who's been terrorized by productivity culture to the point of burnout, when productivity - or failing to do adulting like a cis white man of a specific socioeconomic range, which is where the bar is set and to whom the treatment is customized - is a symptom of a bigger system of things going on with you, not the actual problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:29 PM on August 31, 2020 [35 favorites]
I think Job #1 is to make sure your therapist has a fair shot at giving you what you need, which means you need to tell them that you feel like this. Take them this question printed out, or read it to them. You'd be surprised how many times you think you're having a complete conversation but the other person is only catching a percentage of what you're trying to convey. At least do that before trying again with someone else, though you may have to do that too.
I would encourage you to talk to them about trauma (because your most recent employment experience was traumatic, and it's probably not the only instance), talk about anything you have going on without putting it all in the ADHD bucket.
Obviously nobody can diagnose you here, but I can tell you that I have known so so many women who frequently talked about inconsistent executive function, exhausting amounts of effort to just barely fit in or meet expectations or behave, inability to find goals or know what to do with their lives, often having repeated patterns of exiting work/school/personal relationships under poor circumstances (that were often rooted in being exploited, but they tended not to see it or at least not until it was too late) which I wonder about your job history, and the ultimate at least partial answer if they ever got one was either more serious neurodivergence than "just" ADHD, a cyclical mood disorder, C-PTSD, an autoimmune disease, or more than one of the above. It took enormous amounts of effort to get through sexist (et cetera) bullshit to get seen and diagnosed by someone willing to pay attention.
I just don't really believe in most people only - or simply - having ADHD. And I don't think you can grow up with ADHD without incurring quite serious trauma along the way, and without also having depression and anxiety that should be treated on their own merits and not as a symptom or barely-material side effect. Your question sounds like it was written by someone who's been terrorized by productivity culture to the point of burnout, when productivity - or failing to do adulting like a cis white man of a specific socioeconomic range, which is where the bar is set and to whom the treatment is customized - is a symptom of a bigger system of things going on with you, not the actual problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:29 PM on August 31, 2020 [35 favorites]
Your worth is not tied to your productivity. You are a worthwhile being, deserving of love and all that is good, even if you don't get all the shit done as well as you'd like.
That is not to say that it's not worth your time to figure yourself out when it comes to getting an actual job done, but from the way you wrote your question, your issue here isn't just about finding the right system to be productive. With ADHD, a lot of us do this thing where we tie our worth to our low productivity and focus at a young age and it's really hard to shake it.
Also, it is really really really fucking hard to get things done when you are emotionally overwhelmed, particularly when you have ADHD, and our brains are given to overwhelm because one of the things we are bad at is filtering shit out. You are in a foreign country (which is overwhelming for a long time, if I understand correctly) and you don't have your people there, and it's a whole lot.
What I suggest is that you stop pushing for a little while. Just stop and and look around and breathe. Look for grace rather than ways to Get It Right Once and for All. All of that pushing over all of those years hasn't changed anything, so try something different.
posted by hought20 at 3:38 PM on August 31, 2020 [15 favorites]
That is not to say that it's not worth your time to figure yourself out when it comes to getting an actual job done, but from the way you wrote your question, your issue here isn't just about finding the right system to be productive. With ADHD, a lot of us do this thing where we tie our worth to our low productivity and focus at a young age and it's really hard to shake it.
Also, it is really really really fucking hard to get things done when you are emotionally overwhelmed, particularly when you have ADHD, and our brains are given to overwhelm because one of the things we are bad at is filtering shit out. You are in a foreign country (which is overwhelming for a long time, if I understand correctly) and you don't have your people there, and it's a whole lot.
What I suggest is that you stop pushing for a little while. Just stop and and look around and breathe. Look for grace rather than ways to Get It Right Once and for All. All of that pushing over all of those years hasn't changed anything, so try something different.
posted by hought20 at 3:38 PM on August 31, 2020 [15 favorites]
Like Lyn Never, I don’t think it makes sense to talk about what to do without looking at the whole picture. Working since 16, in one toxic environment after another (which I can believe if the jobs were in retail, call centres etc), on your own completely, in a foreign country? That is HARD. For anyone. We’re interdependent, we need community and a sense of belonging. For work environments to be decent, a post-secondary education is needed (doesn’t guarantee it but excludes a lot of certain kinds of exploitative nightmares).
Where you live matters too, places have particular and singular opportunities and constraints.
If your family isn’t awful, reach out to them. Look at going back to school. Many universities and colleges offer support for people with LDs. Start part-time. For ADHD the main thing is working with your strengths, focusing on what’s motivating, and compensating for less strong areas. But you can’t do it on your own! You need all the support you can get - from family, school, community. No person is an island, no one.
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:44 PM on August 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
Where you live matters too, places have particular and singular opportunities and constraints.
If your family isn’t awful, reach out to them. Look at going back to school. Many universities and colleges offer support for people with LDs. Start part-time. For ADHD the main thing is working with your strengths, focusing on what’s motivating, and compensating for less strong areas. But you can’t do it on your own! You need all the support you can get - from family, school, community. No person is an island, no one.
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:44 PM on August 31, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think the suggestions that there is more going on than just ADHD are good ones--I am also adult-diagnosed ADHD, and I suffer from a lot of anxiety from a long life of using panicked worrying as a way not to forget things. Now I just feel panicked and worried all the time, even when there is literally nothing to worry about.
I personally cannot create and keep to a schedule for myself. It's virtually impossible; I work best with outside structure. In non-COVID times, my first suggestion would be some kind of commitment that gets you out of the house. A class, a volunteer gig--somewhere people will expect you and know and care if you don't show up, even just once or twice a week. That's not as easy to do these days, but I will say that putting some enforced structure around my days and I feel so much better about myself. On a day when I have one half hour commitment in the morning, I can accomplish 10x more than on a day when I have nothing specific demanding my attention.
I truly know how you feel, and I hope your therapist can help you with this. Good luck.
posted by gideonfrog at 3:46 PM on August 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
I personally cannot create and keep to a schedule for myself. It's virtually impossible; I work best with outside structure. In non-COVID times, my first suggestion would be some kind of commitment that gets you out of the house. A class, a volunteer gig--somewhere people will expect you and know and care if you don't show up, even just once or twice a week. That's not as easy to do these days, but I will say that putting some enforced structure around my days and I feel so much better about myself. On a day when I have one half hour commitment in the morning, I can accomplish 10x more than on a day when I have nothing specific demanding my attention.
I truly know how you feel, and I hope your therapist can help you with this. Good luck.
posted by gideonfrog at 3:46 PM on August 31, 2020 [9 favorites]
Executive dysfunction is common in ADHD people, but it is not exclusive to ADHD.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:56 PM on August 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:56 PM on August 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
Hi friend, you asked "Can anybody help?" Yes, people can help. You are going to be OK. I'm pretty terrified too, but I want you to know that people care about you, and we're stronger together.
I don't know anything about ADHD but I know about feeling confused and hopeless. I know that things were really hard before, and they are even harder now. I know how it feels to think "I've sucked at more jobs than most my friends ever have had." I know what it's like to try really hard to use meds and science and therapy to try to fix what's broken without really even understanding or believing what that's supposed to be.
On my journey with anxiety, have seen 3 therapists and they definitely were all completely different.
It was hard to tell if it was working. I am very determined and persistent, so I opened my heart as much as I could. Eventually, I felt like I had made sufficient progress with the therapist, so I told them so. We talked about it and moved on.
When I started therapy, I usually asked for help with specific issues. I was looking for a system. I was looking for a reason that I kept fucking everything up. I figured, if I could only learn what I was doing wrong, I can fix it and meet my goals. But the problem was not because I didn't have a system, it was because I had un-diagnosed anxiety making me afraid all the time.
I've started to understand my anxiety. I trust myself much more now. I understand that I want some things for unhealthy reasons. And I've learned that I need to prioritize my own comfort and safety. These are the toolbox, and the systems and worksheets are tools in the toolbox. I need the organization to make the tools helpful.
I've found great help in opening to my friends about these issues. Some have dropped away. Someone who is a personal hero, it turns out, also struggles with very similar issues, and so we help each other. I feel so much better because I'm not alone with this any more. I get advice for my own situation from people who have been through it, and I help my friend by listening and supporting them.
You asked for recommendations for a system that helps. I studied Behavioral Psychology in graduate school and was completely bought in to the science. Still am. But, like I said above, understanding the main underlying motivating factors have been much more helpful than individual systems.
Best wishes.
posted by rebent at 9:26 PM on August 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
I don't know anything about ADHD but I know about feeling confused and hopeless. I know that things were really hard before, and they are even harder now. I know how it feels to think "I've sucked at more jobs than most my friends ever have had." I know what it's like to try really hard to use meds and science and therapy to try to fix what's broken without really even understanding or believing what that's supposed to be.
On my journey with anxiety, have seen 3 therapists and they definitely were all completely different.
It was hard to tell if it was working. I am very determined and persistent, so I opened my heart as much as I could. Eventually, I felt like I had made sufficient progress with the therapist, so I told them so. We talked about it and moved on.
When I started therapy, I usually asked for help with specific issues. I was looking for a system. I was looking for a reason that I kept fucking everything up. I figured, if I could only learn what I was doing wrong, I can fix it and meet my goals. But the problem was not because I didn't have a system, it was because I had un-diagnosed anxiety making me afraid all the time.
I've started to understand my anxiety. I trust myself much more now. I understand that I want some things for unhealthy reasons. And I've learned that I need to prioritize my own comfort and safety. These are the toolbox, and the systems and worksheets are tools in the toolbox. I need the organization to make the tools helpful.
I've found great help in opening to my friends about these issues. Some have dropped away. Someone who is a personal hero, it turns out, also struggles with very similar issues, and so we help each other. I feel so much better because I'm not alone with this any more. I get advice for my own situation from people who have been through it, and I help my friend by listening and supporting them.
You asked for recommendations for a system that helps. I studied Behavioral Psychology in graduate school and was completely bought in to the science. Still am. But, like I said above, understanding the main underlying motivating factors have been much more helpful than individual systems.
Best wishes.
posted by rebent at 9:26 PM on August 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
Oh, I could have written this. I'm sure everyone is different, but for me it was, and is, anxiety. If I was anxious about something I would avoid it, but to such a deep level I didn't even realize I was avoiding it. I didn't feel anxious at all, due to avoiding the triggers, so it took a long time to figure out why I was having such a hard time doing anything.
Avoiding anxiety triggers worked in that is prevented the anxiety, but as you're discovering it creates new even worse problems. Then the anxiety from those problems becomes overwhelming and you start avoiding those until you spend an entire day "doing nothing". It's a horrible cycle.
Lots of therapy! Learning to acknowledge when I was turning away from a trigger because it was triggering, then learning how to walk towards it instead. A lot of forgiving myself to get over the feelings of shame. Still a work in progress. I never found a system or book that helped, those are like using band-aids when your arm has fallen off.
Please feel free to pm me if you want to talk about it.
posted by Dynex at 9:39 AM on September 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
Avoiding anxiety triggers worked in that is prevented the anxiety, but as you're discovering it creates new even worse problems. Then the anxiety from those problems becomes overwhelming and you start avoiding those until you spend an entire day "doing nothing". It's a horrible cycle.
Lots of therapy! Learning to acknowledge when I was turning away from a trigger because it was triggering, then learning how to walk towards it instead. A lot of forgiving myself to get over the feelings of shame. Still a work in progress. I never found a system or book that helped, those are like using band-aids when your arm has fallen off.
Please feel free to pm me if you want to talk about it.
posted by Dynex at 9:39 AM on September 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
I will send you an email separately when I get a chance this week (also a 30s woman with ADHD diagnosed by multiple doctors who struggles mightily in all aspects of life), but I will say that why you should be open to exploring alternative or comorbid diagnoses as others have suggested, I don't doubt you have ADHD from your description. There are many people with legit cases of ADHD who don't respond well to stimulants, or classes of stimulants, the routines, talk therapy, etc.
Another note:: is that I gained virtually nothing from therapy with non-ADHD specialized clinicians. More than 10 years of talk therapy/CBT with different providers did not help my ADHD In any way. Zero. I've only seen value from coaching and my time working with a psychiatrist who specialized in ADHD. This disorder (and the deleterious effects of the consequent trauma it yields in people like us on our productivity) is so poorly understood, particularly in women.
posted by shaademaan at 6:06 PM on September 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Another note:: is that I gained virtually nothing from therapy with non-ADHD specialized clinicians. More than 10 years of talk therapy/CBT with different providers did not help my ADHD In any way. Zero. I've only seen value from coaching and my time working with a psychiatrist who specialized in ADHD. This disorder (and the deleterious effects of the consequent trauma it yields in people like us on our productivity) is so poorly understood, particularly in women.
posted by shaademaan at 6:06 PM on September 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I felt like I could identify with a lot of what you wrote, though I’m in a better place now overall.
I have some ideas, but not in contradiction to anything others have written, because it’s really good advice. Just some things that haven’t Been mentioned, to consider and discard/keep as feels right to you.
I think sometimes we just get overcooked and need to do that very old fashioned thing and convalesce. It’s so so hard to self diagnose this because all of our cultural conditioning tells us the opposite - try harder, work harder, don’t give up, etc. but convalescing is the opposite of giving up. It’s giving your body and mind the best chance to hang in there for the longer haul. I would ask, what can you let go of for now? You definitely don’t need to be deciding your next career trajectory. Maybe you need to figure out an income source, but maybe you’re in a place with an economic safety net, and you actually can let that go for a while also. If figuring out big picture wants isn’t happening now, see what you can do with little picture wants - what do you want for breakfast, what show do you want to watch, etc. Not wanting to leave the house is good in a way, because it’s a want too, and you know about it. To the extent you safely can, try to honor your little wants as they come up. Even if they seem like the opposite of the advice your mother/coach/self-help guru would have given you. I think that creates psychic room, eventually, for bigger wants to surface. I think the main thing is to get enough sleep (though it doesn’t have to be on a conventional schedule) and enough food and water. If you can make that happen, almost everything else is gravy. Maybe that’s your whole to do list for a while. If you can financially sustain that, that is fine, you are convalescing. I think there’s an excellent chance that with time, you’ll be able to add more wants that are also healthy for you. One thing I try to keep on my to do list, once I have the spoons for it, is to every day have an interaction with someone who loves me, which can be a conversation or even just a text to a friend. Another thing for me sometimes is some Flylady routines. But I couldn’t just make myself so that, my spirit has to be on board first. It has to come from a place of “I feel like” not a place of “I should”. That can feel scary because what if the feelings don’t come through? But that’s still convalescing and trusting that just as if you take your medicine and do your physical therapy, your body can heal, if you do your sleep, food, and water (depending on the situation, keep a roof over your head, keep your cat alive, etc), your feelings can come through for you too. But you can’t always be futzing with them, like you shouldn’t keep poking your wound/scar to make sure it’s healing. None of this means you aren’t talented, capable, and resourceful. This is part of being capable, even if it doesn’t feel like it during.
Overall I’m doing now, but when I hit certain stress/grief triggers, I’ll have a bad few days when my routines degenerate and my apartment falls apart and my to do list ossifies, and I’ll be convinced that I’m descending back to the worst times. But I try to trust my process. Pare back. Take whatever pills I need to get enough sleep. Keep taking my meds. Listen for and cater to my little wants, and be open to the next stage of wants (feeling like cleaning/tidying, feeling like connecting to a friend, feeling like sitting outside) but not pressure myself or try to override my actual feelings and wants. It seems to be working. Honestly at least as much or better than anything else I’ve tried.
(I was also diagnosed with ADHD quite late, after years of depression/anxiety diagnoses that I suspect were related to the undiagnosed untreated ADHD, but nevertheless settled in enough to be with me for the long haul. I agree that there is so much we don’t know and so little support for women like us. But! We are - you are - talented and capable and resourceful, and we will make our own way even if requires slowing down sometimes to break snow or cut a trail and resting as we go).
posted by Salamandrous at 8:56 PM on September 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
I have some ideas, but not in contradiction to anything others have written, because it’s really good advice. Just some things that haven’t Been mentioned, to consider and discard/keep as feels right to you.
I think sometimes we just get overcooked and need to do that very old fashioned thing and convalesce. It’s so so hard to self diagnose this because all of our cultural conditioning tells us the opposite - try harder, work harder, don’t give up, etc. but convalescing is the opposite of giving up. It’s giving your body and mind the best chance to hang in there for the longer haul. I would ask, what can you let go of for now? You definitely don’t need to be deciding your next career trajectory. Maybe you need to figure out an income source, but maybe you’re in a place with an economic safety net, and you actually can let that go for a while also. If figuring out big picture wants isn’t happening now, see what you can do with little picture wants - what do you want for breakfast, what show do you want to watch, etc. Not wanting to leave the house is good in a way, because it’s a want too, and you know about it. To the extent you safely can, try to honor your little wants as they come up. Even if they seem like the opposite of the advice your mother/coach/self-help guru would have given you. I think that creates psychic room, eventually, for bigger wants to surface. I think the main thing is to get enough sleep (though it doesn’t have to be on a conventional schedule) and enough food and water. If you can make that happen, almost everything else is gravy. Maybe that’s your whole to do list for a while. If you can financially sustain that, that is fine, you are convalescing. I think there’s an excellent chance that with time, you’ll be able to add more wants that are also healthy for you. One thing I try to keep on my to do list, once I have the spoons for it, is to every day have an interaction with someone who loves me, which can be a conversation or even just a text to a friend. Another thing for me sometimes is some Flylady routines. But I couldn’t just make myself so that, my spirit has to be on board first. It has to come from a place of “I feel like” not a place of “I should”. That can feel scary because what if the feelings don’t come through? But that’s still convalescing and trusting that just as if you take your medicine and do your physical therapy, your body can heal, if you do your sleep, food, and water (depending on the situation, keep a roof over your head, keep your cat alive, etc), your feelings can come through for you too. But you can’t always be futzing with them, like you shouldn’t keep poking your wound/scar to make sure it’s healing. None of this means you aren’t talented, capable, and resourceful. This is part of being capable, even if it doesn’t feel like it during.
Overall I’m doing now, but when I hit certain stress/grief triggers, I’ll have a bad few days when my routines degenerate and my apartment falls apart and my to do list ossifies, and I’ll be convinced that I’m descending back to the worst times. But I try to trust my process. Pare back. Take whatever pills I need to get enough sleep. Keep taking my meds. Listen for and cater to my little wants, and be open to the next stage of wants (feeling like cleaning/tidying, feeling like connecting to a friend, feeling like sitting outside) but not pressure myself or try to override my actual feelings and wants. It seems to be working. Honestly at least as much or better than anything else I’ve tried.
(I was also diagnosed with ADHD quite late, after years of depression/anxiety diagnoses that I suspect were related to the undiagnosed untreated ADHD, but nevertheless settled in enough to be with me for the long haul. I agree that there is so much we don’t know and so little support for women like us. But! We are - you are - talented and capable and resourceful, and we will make our own way even if requires slowing down sometimes to break snow or cut a trail and resting as we go).
posted by Salamandrous at 8:56 PM on September 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jubey at 2:10 PM on August 31, 2020 [9 favorites]