Why do I do weird things when I do science?
August 9, 2020 8:09 PM Subscribe
When I was in college and took difficult science courses, I would engage in problematic behaviors such as compulsive eating and hair pulling, especially around the finals period. In the end, I could not cope with the behaviors and chose a non-science college major that made me happy.
I am working on some programming projects right now, and similar behaviors have cropped up. They very intensely crop up when I work on math and I don't know what is going on.
I have two questions:
1) Is this anxiety? OCD? Stress? I don't necessarily find programming difficult... more so, tedious. I don't have any deadline and it doesn't affect my day job at all.
2) Does this have anything to do with programming/math/science itself, or baggage from my childhood that has to do with the subject (science)?
**btw, I have been in therapy for a long time and take an SSRI.
I have two questions:
1) Is this anxiety? OCD? Stress? I don't necessarily find programming difficult... more so, tedious. I don't have any deadline and it doesn't affect my day job at all.
2) Does this have anything to do with programming/math/science itself, or baggage from my childhood that has to do with the subject (science)?
**btw, I have been in therapy for a long time and take an SSRI.
Best answer: This is very common among programmers in my experience. I definitely do things like this when I'm coding, and they are largely tolerated at the programming jobs I've worked at. Mine is to chew on things like pencils obsessively while I code. My personal feeling is that if you're doing these things WHILE you're coding, doing math, etc then it's probably not due to stress/OCD/anxiety or anything negative and you only need to worry about it if the behavior itself is harmful. If you're doing these things hours after you're done, that might be something to talk to your therapist about as it could be a anxiety or past history thing that happens in reaction to the first type of behavior.
My theory about what's going on here is that when we get into the "flow" of programming, math, science, or anything else, we run out of attention to devote to social demands so things like this are hard to stop. Behaviors like this are also often about sensory stimulation and are reassuring to the brain when it's doing something complicated and abstract. This is particularly common for people on the autism spectrum, but I've seen this in a wide variety of different coworkers so I think it has more to do with the demands of the work. I do not think you need to do anything in particular about this, except to modify your environment to avoid harm when you can (ie, hide the snacks before you start coding).
posted by JZig at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
My theory about what's going on here is that when we get into the "flow" of programming, math, science, or anything else, we run out of attention to devote to social demands so things like this are hard to stop. Behaviors like this are also often about sensory stimulation and are reassuring to the brain when it's doing something complicated and abstract. This is particularly common for people on the autism spectrum, but I've seen this in a wide variety of different coworkers so I think it has more to do with the demands of the work. I do not think you need to do anything in particular about this, except to modify your environment to avoid harm when you can (ie, hide the snacks before you start coding).
posted by JZig at 10:40 PM on August 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
Wow, I hadn't even realized that I used to do this and stopped. In engineering undergrad, I chewed on things constantly. Mostly pens, but also clothes. As my work mix moved from technical work to more writing/reading/talking, that pattern stopped. I still fidget a lot but no more chewing.
FWIW, I enjoyed engineering school a lot and still work in technical fields. So for me at least, the behavior wasn't about stress or anxiety per se and happened as much in happy-deep-work states as "why isn't this working" or "oh god I'm going to fail if I don't get this done by 9am."
So JZig's theory fits with my experiences.
posted by heresiarch at 10:50 PM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
FWIW, I enjoyed engineering school a lot and still work in technical fields. So for me at least, the behavior wasn't about stress or anxiety per se and happened as much in happy-deep-work states as "why isn't this working" or "oh god I'm going to fail if I don't get this done by 9am."
So JZig's theory fits with my experiences.
posted by heresiarch at 10:50 PM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I’m a software engineer and act like a complete nut when I’m really deep in a technical problem. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately as when I’m doing heavy design work I’m actually very happy and satisfied, but I act so much more unhinged than when I’m doing project management or something else that’s demanding but not technical in this way. Sorry if you’re looking for a very specific answer but if it helps, this seems common.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:21 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by stoneandstar at 11:21 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
What a great set of answers. Both of these possibilities are real - and both of them are *probably* "stress" writ loosely (what else would you call "no spare cycles to devote to social demands or bodily needs"?) but there is fun delightful flow and there is horrible compulsive rumination and the only difference I can identify is how they feel and how they affect your life.
If I had to guess though I'd guess from context that you're describing anxiety/stress. I used to notice around finals in college I'd stop experiencing hunger, but if I went and got food I'd eat EVERYTHING, no sense of satiety either. That was absolutely stress. So was the low level nausea. And if you're seeing it around finals specifically rather than every time you're working on a type of problem, well, good way to calibrate what your stress responses feel like.
posted by Lady Li at 12:13 AM on August 10, 2020
If I had to guess though I'd guess from context that you're describing anxiety/stress. I used to notice around finals in college I'd stop experiencing hunger, but if I went and got food I'd eat EVERYTHING, no sense of satiety either. That was absolutely stress. So was the low level nausea. And if you're seeing it around finals specifically rather than every time you're working on a type of problem, well, good way to calibrate what your stress responses feel like.
posted by Lady Li at 12:13 AM on August 10, 2020
Math anxiety is definitely a thing, that you would be able to find a lot more details about than a more generalized science anxiety though that can also be a thing. Your therapist might be best suited to helping you figure out if that's what's going on. But if you think it might be math anxiety or similar, and have time for a little reading, the book "Mathematical Mindsets" by Jo Bowler may be a good jumping off point?
posted by eviemath at 2:02 AM on August 10, 2020
posted by eviemath at 2:02 AM on August 10, 2020
Autocorrect correction: Mathematical Mindsets is by Jo Boaler.
posted by eviemath at 4:48 AM on August 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 4:48 AM on August 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: In my first year or two of coding, I got massive tension headaches every single day. It was definitely anxiety, including big doses of imposter syndrome and stereotype threat. Coding can be frustrating — there is so much “This doesn’t work, and I don’t know why.” You’re learning a new way of thinking, as well as a very specific, rigid vocabulary and grammar to express it in. No one is born knowing how to do it (no matter what some people pretend). There is a real learning curve where you know what you want to accomplish, but it’s hard to figure out how to accomplish it.
And unfortunately, the culture can be very “figure it out yourself, don’t bother other people with your stupidity,” which is Not Helpful. Especially if you are of a gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. that also gets a lot of messaging that you aren’t good at coding, you don’t belong, and any mistakes on your part will reflect on your whole group.
Eventually, I developed more confidence that I would be able to figure out why something wasn’t working. I started to recognize patterns in how things failed, and I learned what to check and how to check it. The tension headaches went away. I still run into problems that I can’t solve right away, and sometimes it still puts me in a shitty mood. But I can tell myself “Take the evening off, eat some food, take a walk, get some sleep, and I bet the answer will come to you in the morning” — because that has happened so many times now.
And when I’m teaching other people to code, I always make it super clear that I didn’t expect them to already know this; that I didn’t always know this; that I still have to google things every day and troubleshoot bugs; that there are loads of things I don’t know.
So yeah — it probably is coding, and baggage around science/math, and society. Seek out as much supportive material as you can. Seek out supportive people. Remember that you are almost certainly doing much, much better than it feels like you’re doing.
posted by snowmentality at 8:11 AM on August 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
And unfortunately, the culture can be very “figure it out yourself, don’t bother other people with your stupidity,” which is Not Helpful. Especially if you are of a gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality, etc. that also gets a lot of messaging that you aren’t good at coding, you don’t belong, and any mistakes on your part will reflect on your whole group.
Eventually, I developed more confidence that I would be able to figure out why something wasn’t working. I started to recognize patterns in how things failed, and I learned what to check and how to check it. The tension headaches went away. I still run into problems that I can’t solve right away, and sometimes it still puts me in a shitty mood. But I can tell myself “Take the evening off, eat some food, take a walk, get some sleep, and I bet the answer will come to you in the morning” — because that has happened so many times now.
And when I’m teaching other people to code, I always make it super clear that I didn’t expect them to already know this; that I didn’t always know this; that I still have to google things every day and troubleshoot bugs; that there are loads of things I don’t know.
So yeah — it probably is coding, and baggage around science/math, and society. Seek out as much supportive material as you can. Seek out supportive people. Remember that you are almost certainly doing much, much better than it feels like you’re doing.
posted by snowmentality at 8:11 AM on August 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
These sound like autism stims to me and those would tend to intensify if you're more anxious about what you're doing at the time.
Even if they aren't linked to autism, I'm wondering if trying to switch up to another stim, like breaks with a fidget toy, might help.
If you are in fact on the spectrum, Stims Happen. It might be worth it to do a self assessment... I'm a cis woman and went through the process last year: not all autism self assessment tools are right for women. PM me if you'd like to know more.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 9:40 AM on August 10, 2020
Even if they aren't linked to autism, I'm wondering if trying to switch up to another stim, like breaks with a fidget toy, might help.
If you are in fact on the spectrum, Stims Happen. It might be worth it to do a self assessment... I'm a cis woman and went through the process last year: not all autism self assessment tools are right for women. PM me if you'd like to know more.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 9:40 AM on August 10, 2020
baggage from my childhood
Yeah, seriously consider this. In this scenario, you would feel deep inside that it is terribly important for your math and science work to come naturally and be easy and perfect. Since this is impossible in real life, anxiety happens.
Snowmentality's reply is right along these same lines.
If you want to address it now, the simplest remedy might be a tiny pill before you start working. But the replies here are all over the place, and you're already taking medication. A psychiatrist or another professional should be able to help. Has this come up in your present therapy?
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:09 PM on August 10, 2020
Yeah, seriously consider this. In this scenario, you would feel deep inside that it is terribly important for your math and science work to come naturally and be easy and perfect. Since this is impossible in real life, anxiety happens.
Snowmentality's reply is right along these same lines.
If you want to address it now, the simplest remedy might be a tiny pill before you start working. But the replies here are all over the place, and you're already taking medication. A psychiatrist or another professional should be able to help. Has this come up in your present therapy?
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:09 PM on August 10, 2020
Response by poster: Thank you, everyone, for your input. It's very comforting to know that this isn't some bizarro mutant behavior that's unique to me. The suggestion of 'flow' and 'mental overload' strikes a chord- specifically 'resistance' to the flow (resistance in the Buddhist/dukkha sense) that crops up for me when it comes to meditation as well.
posted by kinoeye at 8:47 PM on August 10, 2020
posted by kinoeye at 8:47 PM on August 10, 2020
If the specific stims you do bother you, consider trying out other ones to see if any of them are soothing while you concentrate. There are a variety of stim toys and fidgets that are worth trying to see what works for you. In particular, chewable jewelry might work as a substitute for compulsive eating.
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:33 AM on August 18, 2020
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:33 AM on August 18, 2020
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Would the social male-gendering of these subjects be relevant for you?
Or associated features like ~objectivity~, ~one best answer~ (never mind they're mostly wrong)? (How do you feel about games like chess where there exists a perfect move that you don't know?)
Or association with domination, technocracy, complicity with power?
And if you have some childhood experiences with science that you think might tie into this, sure, believe yourself.
(Don't know if you've talked about this in therapy and I'm not going to stick my oar in, but I'll just look at my shoe and say it's a kind of thing a person could talk about, if they were going to.)
posted by away for regrooving at 10:00 PM on August 9, 2020 [3 favorites]