Kindness to partner in divorce?
August 8, 2020 2:48 PM Subscribe
I left an 8 year marriage last year and we’re finalizing things. My spouse never did a single thing wrong and was blindsided, but it’s amicable. If you’ve been in her position, is there something your ex did for you that genuinely made you feel better?
Everything I see online feels like it’s about making me feel better or less guilty. I’m referring to gestures - as far as stuff like financial support and splitting belongings that’s all covered.
Everything I see online feels like it’s about making me feel better or less guilty. I’m referring to gestures - as far as stuff like financial support and splitting belongings that’s all covered.
My ex spouse said he would always be there for me. And he has. We don’t talk often, but if I text or call him, he gets back to me as soon as he can. (He’s since remarried and I’m in a LT relationship so we are both in stable places.)
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:13 PM on August 8, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:13 PM on August 8, 2020 [14 favorites]
I would tread carefully. Amicable doesn't mean she won't have feelings of anger and betrayal. And staying too close emotionally ends up muddying the emotional waters for both of you.
The hard truth you need to deal with is that, by definition, you are the one person who can't make her feel better. She has to start building a new life without you.
You can take the high road with regard to costs, legal actions and so on. But you don't get to keep the same privileges of closeness. If you're lucky and both willing, you might build a new friendship, eventually.
posted by emjaybee at 4:42 PM on August 8, 2020 [52 favorites]
The hard truth you need to deal with is that, by definition, you are the one person who can't make her feel better. She has to start building a new life without you.
You can take the high road with regard to costs, legal actions and so on. But you don't get to keep the same privileges of closeness. If you're lucky and both willing, you might build a new friendship, eventually.
posted by emjaybee at 4:42 PM on August 8, 2020 [52 favorites]
Make a clean break. I say this to anyone going through a break-up or divorce. Kindness can be mistaken for rekindled desire; a gift can be interpreted as courting. Even if they tell themselves that you were absolutely clear about divorce, the subconscious is a funny thing. Pay for their attorney as a final gesture, as suggested above. But she needs to fully build a new life without you. I’m glad the proceedings went smoothly . . . for both of you.
posted by lemon_icing at 5:35 PM on August 8, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by lemon_icing at 5:35 PM on August 8, 2020 [31 favorites]
The kindest thing you can do after being fair about financial and other issues is allow her to make a clean break and build a life without you. Sometimes the initiator of a breakup can--even subconsciously--want to maintain a relationship with the ex as a way of showing themselves and others that they weren't the bad guy, and that can be really unfair to the other party.
Although I appreciate your positive intent in making it clear that she did nothing wrong, you should also be aware that emphasizing this can be very hurtful for the ex partner. It's much better than giving in to the impulse to find something wrong with her or her behaviour to justify your need to leave, but she might also feel like her life and feelings were just acceptable collateral damage to you. She's probably dealing with a lot of hurt, even if it is amicable.
posted by rpfields at 6:07 PM on August 8, 2020 [20 favorites]
Although I appreciate your positive intent in making it clear that she did nothing wrong, you should also be aware that emphasizing this can be very hurtful for the ex partner. It's much better than giving in to the impulse to find something wrong with her or her behaviour to justify your need to leave, but she might also feel like her life and feelings were just acceptable collateral damage to you. She's probably dealing with a lot of hurt, even if it is amicable.
posted by rpfields at 6:07 PM on August 8, 2020 [20 favorites]
Move out, move on, let her find her support network and figure out what the next phase of her life looks like without you. Don't do anything to hold up the legal proceedings, make that go as smoothly as possible.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 6:46 PM on August 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Sparky Buttons at 6:46 PM on August 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
Best answer I have is "do anything reasonable that she asks of you."
My ex-spouse didn't (details unimportant) and it really poisoned my memory of him.
posted by humbug at 8:36 PM on August 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
My ex-spouse didn't (details unimportant) and it really poisoned my memory of him.
posted by humbug at 8:36 PM on August 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Just to be clear and hopefully not sound fighty - I badly betrayed her, she’s processed it and moved on and there was a window where reconciliation was possible but it’s solidly closed. She values herself and is pragmatic and process oriented and is now looking forward to her new chapter. No chance of mixed signals and we’re both set on course. Just want to be kind and leave her with more of a spring in her step as she sets out if it’s at all possible.
posted by ftm at 9:09 PM on August 8, 2020
posted by ftm at 9:09 PM on August 8, 2020
Give her a lot of space, don't ask her personal questions, and don't talk to her about your feelings regarding the divorce, good or bad. This may sound cold, but if you're interested in keeping things amicable in the long run, distance now will do you a lot of good.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:14 PM on August 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:14 PM on August 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Also, to address your follow-up specifically: you can't be the person to put a spring in her step anymore. You can remove stress from her life and you can be generous with the terms of the divorce but brightening her day is not your place at this point. Again, I don't mean to be harsh -- it's just a rough situation.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:18 PM on August 8, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:18 PM on August 8, 2020 [31 favorites]
You say that everything you're finding online is about making you feel better, but based on your follow-up intel, I feel like...that's...still what you're looking for? You can't be the prince of divorce. Commit to never lying to your ex again, and let that be it for both of you.
posted by Charity Garfein at 11:13 PM on August 8, 2020 [32 favorites]
posted by Charity Garfein at 11:13 PM on August 8, 2020 [32 favorites]
Just want to be kind and leave her with more of a spring in her step as she sets out if it’s at all possible.
Be kind by realizing that goal is deeply inappropriate and just as wrong as you betraying her in the first place.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:27 AM on August 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
Be kind by realizing that goal is deeply inappropriate and just as wrong as you betraying her in the first place.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 6:27 AM on August 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
Maybe minor. If this works for both of you:
Make it explicit / name what you are doing:
- that you are trying to make the legal smooth by doing x y z.
- you are going to not ask big questions so that they have space for different life.
- you are withdrawing from whatever shared friendships or activities that you are doing
- (etc etc).
Ask if this is how they want things going forward or if they want something different or if there is anything else wanted.
At this phase, being a good partner in divorce might mostly mean disappearing unless called.
posted by gregglind at 8:00 AM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Make it explicit / name what you are doing:
- that you are trying to make the legal smooth by doing x y z.
- you are going to not ask big questions so that they have space for different life.
- you are withdrawing from whatever shared friendships or activities that you are doing
- (etc etc).
Ask if this is how they want things going forward or if they want something different or if there is anything else wanted.
At this phase, being a good partner in divorce might mostly mean disappearing unless called.
posted by gregglind at 8:00 AM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
If you have shared friendships or a shared social circle, please make space for her. Don't go to every single gathering.
posted by woodvine at 8:40 AM on August 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by woodvine at 8:40 AM on August 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
I've been where you are. Please let her sort this out for herself. Although I believe you truly mean well, I'm certain that no act of kindness will see the light of day unsullied by your transgression. I believe the best you can do is meet those obligations you have identified, and let her have the high ground without her having to acknowledge that you aren't such a bad guy after all.
After the emotional dust has settled she'll decide for herself how to deal with this turn of events. I can almost guarantee that more ways exist for you to make life harder for her than ways to make life easier. You no longer have access to certain things about her. I guess those details would be up to her, but navigating your new terms of familiarity will be less tricky if you take the minimal approach. In the best of all worlds you'll redefine yourself and want to rehabilitate your character, both in your own eyes and those of your new partner. I advise humility.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 8:44 AM on August 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
After the emotional dust has settled she'll decide for herself how to deal with this turn of events. I can almost guarantee that more ways exist for you to make life harder for her than ways to make life easier. You no longer have access to certain things about her. I guess those details would be up to her, but navigating your new terms of familiarity will be less tricky if you take the minimal approach. In the best of all worlds you'll redefine yourself and want to rehabilitate your character, both in your own eyes and those of your new partner. I advise humility.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 8:44 AM on August 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yeah I think my best advice here would be to take some steps to lower the emotional intensity of your interactions so that even though you know each other well and were intimate partners in the recent past, you are no longer entitled to that level of information and should not ask for it. So none of that "No really, how ARE you?" type of conversation, unless she initiates. Don't try to be chummy and continue to share... stuff (pets, car insurance, routines or celebrations or even dates-in-calendar). Don't make any note of your anniversary or her relatives' special dates, and don't mention the time you both met or special aspects to your relationship in public if she's around. Basically do not "claim" her and her history as something that belongs to you anymore. This is slightly unfair to you, but that's a way to be kind.
I'm sure everyone has differing reactions to this question based on their own personal histories. In mine there is a person who is trying to do their best to say "No, that's okay, it's FINE" when things may not, actually, be fine. So I'd not necessarily assume that you know her heart anymore and just try to do average-to-above-average things that a decent person would do.
posted by jessamyn at 12:09 PM on August 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
I'm sure everyone has differing reactions to this question based on their own personal histories. In mine there is a person who is trying to do their best to say "No, that's okay, it's FINE" when things may not, actually, be fine. So I'd not necessarily assume that you know her heart anymore and just try to do average-to-above-average things that a decent person would do.
posted by jessamyn at 12:09 PM on August 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
It might not be evident yet that things you're doing are actually helping. My ex-husband really said a lot of nice things about me throughout, but it was too soon for me to really hear or process them. Now, later, it means a lot to me, that he was able to say 'I always liked that about you' even though it just made me cry myself to sleep yet again at the time.
He also made the process as easy as he could by contacting the offices, getting the forms, paying the fees, etc., especially since not being with him was the very last thing on earth I ever wanted, so it would have been very difficult for me to make myself navigate things. (we had no kids and very little property, including not owning a home, so neither of us had an attorney to pay for.)
It meant a lot to me that he didn't stop communicating with me, too. He was my best friend for as long as I can remember, so even when I was terribly heartbroken, replying to my texts with understanding, and sometimes texting me first, meant so much. And now, recommending new music the other one would really like, things like that.
posted by Occula at 1:21 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
He also made the process as easy as he could by contacting the offices, getting the forms, paying the fees, etc., especially since not being with him was the very last thing on earth I ever wanted, so it would have been very difficult for me to make myself navigate things. (we had no kids and very little property, including not owning a home, so neither of us had an attorney to pay for.)
It meant a lot to me that he didn't stop communicating with me, too. He was my best friend for as long as I can remember, so even when I was terribly heartbroken, replying to my texts with understanding, and sometimes texting me first, meant so much. And now, recommending new music the other one would really like, things like that.
posted by Occula at 1:21 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
A word of warning - my ex interpreted kindness and amicability as an invitation to try and walk all over me. As in, things were absolutely great and fine for about 3 years, and then she decided that she wanted to re-write the entire decree. I know that's not the case as you mentioned already, but just be warned: what you say at the beginning of the process may be held against you, sometimes years down the road and in entirely different situations. My divorce was amicable, but 3-4 years down the road when both of our situations changed, her interpretation of our post-divorce conversations changed. Nothing is permanent (as evidenced by this type of situation), but don't bind yourself into anything that you may potentially want to change down the road.
If nothing else, I highly suggest avoiding words like "always", "forever", etc. in this situation. It's fine to tell someone you care about them, but don't tell them you always will - don't speak for your future self.
posted by _DB_ at 8:45 AM on August 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
If nothing else, I highly suggest avoiding words like "always", "forever", etc. in this situation. It's fine to tell someone you care about them, but don't tell them you always will - don't speak for your future self.
posted by _DB_ at 8:45 AM on August 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
As a divorced person, I believe the best things you can do are the following:
1) Be impeccable with your word. If you say you will do something, do it. Do it timely, do it the way she would want it done, and do not require her to intervene, check on you, or do anything other than hear from you that it's done. Paperwork, if you're selling a house, house stuff, if there are kids, kid stuff, etc.
2) Keep your personal life very personal for now. Everyone knows that everyone is moving on but keep your dating or canoodling in public (ie, on Facebook or whatever) to a dull roar. If you must post that stuff, be sure it's restricted to a trusted group and don't make her curate you out if you guys are still in contact. Be mindful that other people are dumb and might try to make this stuff her business. Do what you can to avoid this, it's awful and gross and embarrassing no matter how one feels about one's actual divorce.
Other than that, stay out of her life unless she asks you into it. This is, bluntly, not the time for "gestures" it's the time for concrete action that shows you are acting in good faith. That's all you need to do.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:20 AM on August 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
1) Be impeccable with your word. If you say you will do something, do it. Do it timely, do it the way she would want it done, and do not require her to intervene, check on you, or do anything other than hear from you that it's done. Paperwork, if you're selling a house, house stuff, if there are kids, kid stuff, etc.
2) Keep your personal life very personal for now. Everyone knows that everyone is moving on but keep your dating or canoodling in public (ie, on Facebook or whatever) to a dull roar. If you must post that stuff, be sure it's restricted to a trusted group and don't make her curate you out if you guys are still in contact. Be mindful that other people are dumb and might try to make this stuff her business. Do what you can to avoid this, it's awful and gross and embarrassing no matter how one feels about one's actual divorce.
Other than that, stay out of her life unless she asks you into it. This is, bluntly, not the time for "gestures" it's the time for concrete action that shows you are acting in good faith. That's all you need to do.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:20 AM on August 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
Aplogize. In whatever form you're comfortable with and able to do, apologize. A direct apology is the sort of closure that betrayed spouses dream of so reliably that there's an entire branch of therapy dedicated to helping people understand that closure is self-generated. The direct, clear apology is a non-essential but nevertheless appealing ingredient in the healing and growth recipe most of us never receive.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:00 PM on August 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:00 PM on August 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ClaireBear at 3:30 PM on August 8, 2020 [9 favorites]