Who do we call about a finished half-basement leak/dampness?
August 6, 2020 5:09 PM Subscribe
So my wife and I recently bought a home in Putnam County, New York, and there was bit of organic growth on the bottom of the wall of a lower level room (kind of a half basement - the wall is half under-grade and half above-ground). We had someone in to tear out the drywall to fix it the day after a major rainstorm, and he found that the concrete behind the drywall was damp. We're now wondering what to do and, if anything, who/what type of person to contact.
We are city folk, and don't have much experience with owning a home like this - or contacts to help us out just yet. The guy who tore out the drywall to fix it is a general handyman recommended by the neighbors, but he says he's not the guy to fix any sort of a leak if that's what this is. He thinks that the problem may be outside the wall and require either some patching to the wall or better drainage of water away from the wall, but he's not sure. He said he'll give us some recommendations of people to fix it, and wants to know if we want to wait for him to patch up the drywall until we get an underlying problem fixed or have him patch up the drywall now so we can use the room while we get any broader fix done.
Any advice on that question based on the above? And if the answer is we need someone to look at this who can give a more informed opinion, what would we search for? A mason? A contractor? Any specific recommendations in Putnam County, New York?
Looking online, seems like it's not unusual for concrete inside a finished basement to get a bit damp after a major storm - doesn't seem like there are leaks, just dampness on the inside. I see recommendations for DIY fixes like applying sealant paint. Other sites indicate it's a matter of improving drainage away from the house. Others indicate some excavation may be necessary. I just have no way to determine what is needed, and would greatly appreciate advice on finding a person who can give us reliable advice on what is needed. Thanks very much in advance!
We are city folk, and don't have much experience with owning a home like this - or contacts to help us out just yet. The guy who tore out the drywall to fix it is a general handyman recommended by the neighbors, but he says he's not the guy to fix any sort of a leak if that's what this is. He thinks that the problem may be outside the wall and require either some patching to the wall or better drainage of water away from the wall, but he's not sure. He said he'll give us some recommendations of people to fix it, and wants to know if we want to wait for him to patch up the drywall until we get an underlying problem fixed or have him patch up the drywall now so we can use the room while we get any broader fix done.
Any advice on that question based on the above? And if the answer is we need someone to look at this who can give a more informed opinion, what would we search for? A mason? A contractor? Any specific recommendations in Putnam County, New York?
Looking online, seems like it's not unusual for concrete inside a finished basement to get a bit damp after a major storm - doesn't seem like there are leaks, just dampness on the inside. I see recommendations for DIY fixes like applying sealant paint. Other sites indicate it's a matter of improving drainage away from the house. Others indicate some excavation may be necessary. I just have no way to determine what is needed, and would greatly appreciate advice on finding a person who can give us reliable advice on what is needed. Thanks very much in advance!
If it's dampness and not an outright leak, the term you're looking for to describe your problem is "basement seepage." Try using that term in your searches to find the right home vendor to give you professional advisement.
posted by juniperesque at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by juniperesque at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2020
It takes an in-person inspection both inside and out to come to a conclusion as to how the inside of the wall is getting damp. It could be moisture coming through cracks, moisture drive through concrete due to general soil dampness or a high water table, moisture drive through concrete due to poor exterior drainage (or roof leaders dumping too close to the foundation), condensation due to interior humidity - and maybe other causes off the top of my head. Any contractor who specializes in wet basements will give you an opinion, but may also try to sell you more than you need. A home inspector is a good option for someone who will give a more neutral recommendation. Best is to get a local recommendation for someone trustworthy - it may be worth asking neighbors if they have had similar problems.
In any event, do not close up the wall again until you have this diagnosed and fixed. Run a dehumidifier if the wall remains damp (or if the basement humidity is high).
posted by meinvt at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
In any event, do not close up the wall again until you have this diagnosed and fixed. Run a dehumidifier if the wall remains damp (or if the basement humidity is high).
posted by meinvt at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Most “home inspectors“ who specialize in prepurchase assessments have only a general understanding of property drainage issues. They can find the wet wall, but won’t know what’s causing it. In my experience they’re useless for major diagnostics of landscaping issues. (I have a friend who knows his shit — a contractor for a specific specialized service often called in to address issues “found” in inspections — who says many of them are basically working on the side for the real estate agent who wants to close the sale, and are happy to help fleece the city slicker, and few of them can be trusted as a result, and based on stories I hear all the time in my area full of second rural homes owned by city folk, yeah. He says you should hire someone from at least 100 miles away and pay their travel, so they don’t have a relationship with the seller’s agent. Take as you will. He’s cynical but very experienced.)
Many inspectors explicitly say their inspection stops at the walls of the home too — they don’t do the yard or trees or outbuildings. I would not bother with a general home inspector for a specific known drainage problem. You need a foundation and drainage specialist. The major risk you have is foundation damage, which is no joke. The solutions tend to involve putting in under house French drain systems (pricey!) and changing the landscaping so water flows away from where you don’t want it. Having been dealing with the latter myself for the last year (DIY, and it has worked), it is an involved process. Any change you make to water flow and drainage on your property can have unintended consequences that take a long time to show up. And studying the hydrology takes time too. You need to really analyze how water moves after a heavy rain, where it accumulates and backs up, and where it can be diverted.
Also be sure you own a decent pump. Damp can turn into water on the floor awfully fast. A dehumidifier is a must in any semi-buried part of a house in the northeast, get a good one and you may be surprised at how far it takes you with the interior symptoms.
Alas I also suspect you need a mold specialist contractor to take a look, if you see growth on the surface it could go much further. That is a major expensive thing to fix that you have to fix. Don’t take a handyman’s word for it. Mold abatement is its own thing and ignoring it can be devastating.
I’m in the Berkshires, on a steep slope of a mountain with a creek running right past my house. Water flows fast all around us on its way down to the valley. The house suffered foundation damage in its past from poorly designed drainage on one side that faces the upslope. It was extensively professionally repaired at significant expense by the last owner, who put in French drains, a big deuhumidifier, and repaired a cracked concrete wall right where the water accumulated. We trusted our inspector’s assessment of the repairs, mostly because you could see the problem was mostly handled and the repairs had been extensive and professionally done. But the basement still took on water in heavy rain, backing up through the French drain system.
Turns out the repair had included creating a substantial new drainage gully along one side of the house to carry away water to the creek in heavy rain. But by the time we bought the place that had become so overgrown it was invisible and barely functional, so clearing that out with the weed whacker had a miraculous effect. Our “inspector” never noticed this, and didn’t really look at the yard at all. We have never seen water in the basement since, even in gully washers like we had two days ago. And the humidity levels have come down substantially. But I had a drainage guy look at it and he says it should have a pipe and a gravel bed to keep it from backing up ever again. That’s several thousand dollars of work. I also freed up drainage down the other side of the slope away from the house with creative landscaping and that dried up a huge area at the top of the drainage ditch, but took weeks of studying flow and digging drainage channels, filled with gravel. That water goes into several acres of dense woods, so I didn’t have a neighbor’s property to worry about. But if you live near other homes you do not want to send your problem their way. If you aren’t experienced with landscaping at all, definitely get a pro involved.
posted by spitbull at 4:30 AM on August 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
Many inspectors explicitly say their inspection stops at the walls of the home too — they don’t do the yard or trees or outbuildings. I would not bother with a general home inspector for a specific known drainage problem. You need a foundation and drainage specialist. The major risk you have is foundation damage, which is no joke. The solutions tend to involve putting in under house French drain systems (pricey!) and changing the landscaping so water flows away from where you don’t want it. Having been dealing with the latter myself for the last year (DIY, and it has worked), it is an involved process. Any change you make to water flow and drainage on your property can have unintended consequences that take a long time to show up. And studying the hydrology takes time too. You need to really analyze how water moves after a heavy rain, where it accumulates and backs up, and where it can be diverted.
Also be sure you own a decent pump. Damp can turn into water on the floor awfully fast. A dehumidifier is a must in any semi-buried part of a house in the northeast, get a good one and you may be surprised at how far it takes you with the interior symptoms.
Alas I also suspect you need a mold specialist contractor to take a look, if you see growth on the surface it could go much further. That is a major expensive thing to fix that you have to fix. Don’t take a handyman’s word for it. Mold abatement is its own thing and ignoring it can be devastating.
I’m in the Berkshires, on a steep slope of a mountain with a creek running right past my house. Water flows fast all around us on its way down to the valley. The house suffered foundation damage in its past from poorly designed drainage on one side that faces the upslope. It was extensively professionally repaired at significant expense by the last owner, who put in French drains, a big deuhumidifier, and repaired a cracked concrete wall right where the water accumulated. We trusted our inspector’s assessment of the repairs, mostly because you could see the problem was mostly handled and the repairs had been extensive and professionally done. But the basement still took on water in heavy rain, backing up through the French drain system.
Turns out the repair had included creating a substantial new drainage gully along one side of the house to carry away water to the creek in heavy rain. But by the time we bought the place that had become so overgrown it was invisible and barely functional, so clearing that out with the weed whacker had a miraculous effect. Our “inspector” never noticed this, and didn’t really look at the yard at all. We have never seen water in the basement since, even in gully washers like we had two days ago. And the humidity levels have come down substantially. But I had a drainage guy look at it and he says it should have a pipe and a gravel bed to keep it from backing up ever again. That’s several thousand dollars of work. I also freed up drainage down the other side of the slope away from the house with creative landscaping and that dried up a huge area at the top of the drainage ditch, but took weeks of studying flow and digging drainage channels, filled with gravel. That water goes into several acres of dense woods, so I didn’t have a neighbor’s property to worry about. But if you live near other homes you do not want to send your problem their way. If you aren’t experienced with landscaping at all, definitely get a pro involved.
posted by spitbull at 4:30 AM on August 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry to hear you are having these troubles.
I want to emphasize what others have said - the problem is [almost certainly] about moisture coming to the foundation through the soil. If there is moisture on the foundation it will get into the below grade area. No paint or barrier inside or out will be adequate in the long run.
There are small things anyone in your situation should make themselves aware of and these can help.
The grade of the soil surrounding a foundation should slope down and away from a house. Seems basic, but in practice it is often not correct.
Make sure the gutters are adequate for the job. Observe them in heavy downpours - are they overtopped in the middle of long runs, dumping water under the eaves, for example? Are the downspouts ejecting water far from the foundation?
Do yourself a favor - get a dehumidifier that can pump the water into a drain or outside. You otherwise may need to empty the tank several times a day in the humid months and unless you are a saint, you will resent this.
posted by Glomar response at 5:14 AM on August 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
I want to emphasize what others have said - the problem is [almost certainly] about moisture coming to the foundation through the soil. If there is moisture on the foundation it will get into the below grade area. No paint or barrier inside or out will be adequate in the long run.
There are small things anyone in your situation should make themselves aware of and these can help.
The grade of the soil surrounding a foundation should slope down and away from a house. Seems basic, but in practice it is often not correct.
Make sure the gutters are adequate for the job. Observe them in heavy downpours - are they overtopped in the middle of long runs, dumping water under the eaves, for example? Are the downspouts ejecting water far from the foundation?
Do yourself a favor - get a dehumidifier that can pump the water into a drain or outside. You otherwise may need to empty the tank several times a day in the humid months and unless you are a saint, you will resent this.
posted by Glomar response at 5:14 AM on August 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
He thinks that the problem may be outside the wall
The problem IS outside the wall. The fact that it gets damp after rain is proof enough. It can NOT be fixed from the inside. Forget any thoughts of "sealant paint" and such. But that doesn't mean you need an expensive french drain solution. I second Glomar response and spitbull's suggestions to start with any necessary fixes to gutters and surface slopes.
Years ago we had a house with some visible cracks in the basement foundation wall, through which water seeped during rain. Hardly enough to cause a puddle, and no big deal because the basement was unfinished. Still, something to fix. Outside, on that side of the house, I noticed that while the "lawn" was fairly level, it sloped down slightly toward that wall, and a puddle formed against the wall when it rained. So, with shovels, rakes and implements of destruction, I changed the slope so it was nicely away from the wall. Not another drop of water ever came through those cracks again. Later, I also installed a gutter on the roof edge above this area, with an extended downspout that would carry water well away from the house.
So I suggest you start by checking all this out, as your own home inspector: Is there a gutter? Is it not clogged? Does it not overflow or leak at joints? Does the downspout carry water sufficiently far from the house so it doesn't puddle against the wall? Gutter or not, does the slope outside permit water to flow toward the wall? Are there puddles? Is the surface next to the house fairly hard, or soft and permeable? First, fix any of those things that are problems: Unclog the cutter, extend the downspout, regrade the surface so it's canted away from the house, maybe add some crushed gravel on the surface if the soil seems too permeable there.
Given that you have just a bit of dampness and no real water flow or even trickle into the house, I'd be surprised if those fixes don't take care of it. If they don't, a french drain could be in order.
posted by beagle at 6:34 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
The problem IS outside the wall. The fact that it gets damp after rain is proof enough. It can NOT be fixed from the inside. Forget any thoughts of "sealant paint" and such. But that doesn't mean you need an expensive french drain solution. I second Glomar response and spitbull's suggestions to start with any necessary fixes to gutters and surface slopes.
Years ago we had a house with some visible cracks in the basement foundation wall, through which water seeped during rain. Hardly enough to cause a puddle, and no big deal because the basement was unfinished. Still, something to fix. Outside, on that side of the house, I noticed that while the "lawn" was fairly level, it sloped down slightly toward that wall, and a puddle formed against the wall when it rained. So, with shovels, rakes and implements of destruction, I changed the slope so it was nicely away from the wall. Not another drop of water ever came through those cracks again. Later, I also installed a gutter on the roof edge above this area, with an extended downspout that would carry water well away from the house.
So I suggest you start by checking all this out, as your own home inspector: Is there a gutter? Is it not clogged? Does it not overflow or leak at joints? Does the downspout carry water sufficiently far from the house so it doesn't puddle against the wall? Gutter or not, does the slope outside permit water to flow toward the wall? Are there puddles? Is the surface next to the house fairly hard, or soft and permeable? First, fix any of those things that are problems: Unclog the cutter, extend the downspout, regrade the surface so it's canted away from the house, maybe add some crushed gravel on the surface if the soil seems too permeable there.
Given that you have just a bit of dampness and no real water flow or even trickle into the house, I'd be surprised if those fixes don't take care of it. If they don't, a french drain could be in order.
posted by beagle at 6:34 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Should have mentioned the gutters and downspouts. That is really basic and important. Make sure they’re clear, and add extensions to your downspouts to pull water away from the immediate perimeter of the house.
And yeah don’t cheap out on the dehumidifier. Good ones are expensive, and you need one that has a hose outlet and either a built in pump or a separate continuous flow pump to carry that water up and out and away. They’re also expensive to run, and it’s important to get an efficient one that has much more capacity than your basement’s square footage so it doesn’t have to work too hard when it’s really damp.
You have to direct water away from the basement walls, that’s the bottom line. Anything you do on the inside is triage.
posted by spitbull at 6:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
And yeah don’t cheap out on the dehumidifier. Good ones are expensive, and you need one that has a hose outlet and either a built in pump or a separate continuous flow pump to carry that water up and out and away. They’re also expensive to run, and it’s important to get an efficient one that has much more capacity than your basement’s square footage so it doesn’t have to work too hard when it’s really damp.
You have to direct water away from the basement walls, that’s the bottom line. Anything you do on the inside is triage.
posted by spitbull at 6:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also to add, when I said be careful of your neighbors’ properties, I mean it. You could do major damage to their foundation if you send your water their way. Your insurance company might balk at covering that if you did the drainage work yourself.
If you hire someone make sure they are fully insured too.
Home ownership is a big job, rural home ownership a vocation.
posted by spitbull at 6:59 AM on August 7, 2020
If you hire someone make sure they are fully insured too.
Home ownership is a big job, rural home ownership a vocation.
posted by spitbull at 6:59 AM on August 7, 2020
I second the advice to not bother with a home inspector. You need a structural engineer.
posted by mlis at 1:12 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mlis at 1:12 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Speaking as a New York homeowner: Don't panic! And don't rush out and hire anybody until you've done the following 2 things:
(1) Definitely get a dehumidifier. We don't have a fancy one that pumps water out, so I go down and empty the bin a couple times a day (during the warm months -- but during the winter, when the weather is drier, it often doesn't need emptying for weeks or months at a time). No big deal.
(2) Assess how water is collecting and flowing on your property when it rains. Your assessment of this is important, because any contractor you hire isn't likely to be there to observe during a rainstorm.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:08 PM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
(1) Definitely get a dehumidifier. We don't have a fancy one that pumps water out, so I go down and empty the bin a couple times a day (during the warm months -- but during the winter, when the weather is drier, it often doesn't need emptying for weeks or months at a time). No big deal.
(2) Assess how water is collecting and flowing on your property when it rains. Your assessment of this is important, because any contractor you hire isn't likely to be there to observe during a rainstorm.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:08 PM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
You can get a pump and hose for a dehumidifier that has a hose attachment (not all do, always check, but any basement-sized machine likely will) for like $100-150. They’re easy to install. The problem is where to send the water. If you want to send it into your wastewater system that takes a plumber visit unless you know plumbing. If you have a sink in the basement that can also work without a pump if you mount the dehumidifier higher than the sink and run a simple gravity hose down to the sink. Just be sure the sink drains well. If the water has to come outside the house obviously you want to send it away from the walls of the house, depending on the length of the run you may need a better pump. My $100 pump just needs to get the water from a high mounted dehumidifier to a wastewater pipe connection about 25 feet away with just a slight incline. The higher the rise and longer the hose run, the more robust your pump needs to be.
The reason to do this besides sheer convenience is that you’re not always going to be home, at least if the pandemic ever ends.
posted by spitbull at 7:39 PM on August 7, 2020
The reason to do this besides sheer convenience is that you’re not always going to be home, at least if the pandemic ever ends.
posted by spitbull at 7:39 PM on August 7, 2020
One other suggestion about dehumidification: If it so happens that you need a new water heater, to be located in that basement, consider getting a heat pump water heater. This draws heat from your basement and uses it to heat your water (way more efficient that a straight electric water heater), and the process ALSO dehumidifies the basement air. Typically it is plumbed to discharge the resulting water into a drain line. So you get a twofer.
posted by beagle at 6:56 AM on August 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by beagle at 6:56 AM on August 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
FYI it is absolutely possible to fix a leak in concrete from the inside - products like Kryton or Xypex can do this (they have a chemical structure creates crystals when it interacts with water, stops leaks within about 2 weeks of filling visible cracks.)
posted by annie o at 1:24 PM on August 9, 2020
posted by annie o at 1:24 PM on August 9, 2020
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...but also, there are contractors that specialize in basement waterproofing, and a bunch of different ways to do it (installing a french drain is only one).
posted by aramaic at 5:33 PM on August 6, 2020