Am I being overcharged rent? Can I get my money back?
August 6, 2020 12:12 PM Subscribe
I pay 3.7k/month in rent for the apartment I'm about to move out of. After giving my 30 day notice, I saw they listed it online for 3k/month?? Can I... get that money back?
In Dec 2017, I signed a lease for the apartment I'm currently living in -- initially for 3.4k/month, but it increased to 3.7k over time. I just gave my 30 days notice, but then saw the apartment listed online for 3k/month, and am now confused and annoyed -- am I being swindled, or is this just what happens when rent prices drop dramatically in the area and you're grandfathered into an older lease, or what?
(I live in the SF Bay Area where IIRC rent has dropped 15-20% recently due to COVID / tech companies going remote.)
It's weird and awkward because given the price drops I would consider staying in this apartment complex, but I'm really irked at the idea that I'm paying so much more per month than this apartment is worth...
(I don't think I'm paying for any additional amenities or anything. I am on a month-to-month lease but the initial lease I signed was yearlong and I went on month-to-month after that, so I don't think I have a higher rate because of that.)
I guess my questions are
- is this normal/legal?
- can I get that money back? if so, how? by complaining to them? (I feel like I don't have any leverage... like I can ask the leasing office, but I thought MeFites might be better-informed about e.g. whether I have any legal recourse / what exactly I should say / whether this is unfortunately normal.)
Sorry and thanks so much!
In Dec 2017, I signed a lease for the apartment I'm currently living in -- initially for 3.4k/month, but it increased to 3.7k over time. I just gave my 30 days notice, but then saw the apartment listed online for 3k/month, and am now confused and annoyed -- am I being swindled, or is this just what happens when rent prices drop dramatically in the area and you're grandfathered into an older lease, or what?
(I live in the SF Bay Area where IIRC rent has dropped 15-20% recently due to COVID / tech companies going remote.)
It's weird and awkward because given the price drops I would consider staying in this apartment complex, but I'm really irked at the idea that I'm paying so much more per month than this apartment is worth...
(I don't think I'm paying for any additional amenities or anything. I am on a month-to-month lease but the initial lease I signed was yearlong and I went on month-to-month after that, so I don't think I have a higher rate because of that.)
I guess my questions are
- is this normal/legal?
- can I get that money back? if so, how? by complaining to them? (I feel like I don't have any leverage... like I can ask the leasing office, but I thought MeFites might be better-informed about e.g. whether I have any legal recourse / what exactly I should say / whether this is unfortunately normal.)
Sorry and thanks so much!
The right price is what someone is willing to pay for it. You paid $3700 at a time when the market would bear that price. They no longer think the market will bear that price, so they've dropped it.
You have no recourse here to get any money back. But you can certainly tell them that you'd be willing to pay $3k and apply for a new 1y lease.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:18 PM on August 6, 2020 [28 favorites]
You have no recourse here to get any money back. But you can certainly tell them that you'd be willing to pay $3k and apply for a new 1y lease.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:18 PM on August 6, 2020 [28 favorites]
Totally normal, totally legal. It's like you bought a widget for $10 at a store that didn't have a "7 day sale price guarantee." You paid your $10 on the day of your purchase, satisfied that you were getting value for your money. If, in 5 days the store had a big sale where the widgets are now $6 each, you can't usually go back and ask for your $4 back.
Same as if you had bought a condo 5 years ago for 1.1million and the same realtor who helped you make the purchase came to help you sell and said you needed to put it on the market for 900k if you want to sell it fast. The previous seller is not going to give you 200k.
Nthing the suggestion that you negotiate a new lease at the new rate, but also be prepared to move out because they might say no.
The current state of affairs has made the housing market very strange, and with millions of folks facing eviction in the coming weeks and months, things are going to get more strange for property owners. Rental prices may go down further.
posted by bilabial at 12:38 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Same as if you had bought a condo 5 years ago for 1.1million and the same realtor who helped you make the purchase came to help you sell and said you needed to put it on the market for 900k if you want to sell it fast. The previous seller is not going to give you 200k.
Nthing the suggestion that you negotiate a new lease at the new rate, but also be prepared to move out because they might say no.
The current state of affairs has made the housing market very strange, and with millions of folks facing eviction in the coming weeks and months, things are going to get more strange for property owners. Rental prices may go down further.
posted by bilabial at 12:38 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
My understanding is that rent in some bigger complexes is a lot like cable or car insurance where, even in a "normal" market, places often offer new-tenant incentives that are better than what you can get at renewal time. I suspect the Bay Area probably has fewer of those incentives, but yeah, this definitely happens.
posted by mosst at 12:58 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by mosst at 12:58 PM on August 6, 2020
Also, if the $3k price is for a 12-month lease, that commitment makes the leaseholder more valuable to the complex than you are on a month-to-month lease. You might offer to sign a new lease as a part of negotiation, if you're willing to.
posted by mosst at 1:01 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by mosst at 1:01 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
The above is mostly true, but I believe the exception might be in some cases of a tenant living in a rent controlled unit. I know more about how this works in NYC than SF, but if you live in a rent controlled or rent stabilized unit your landlords can only increase the rent for that unit a certain percent every year. Or they can make improvements on the unit and increase the rent accordingly. In New York at least, you can request a rent history for your unit and see if they've illegally increased the rent by a larger percentage than what's allowed over the years (including years before you were a tenant). I've known people who have done this and been paid back the difference between what they'd been paying and the legal rent for the unit.
Again, I'm not sure how rent stabilization works in SF, but you might contact the San Francisco Tenant's Union for their advice. They offer free virtual counseling for these kinds of issues.
posted by rabbitbookworm at 1:04 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Again, I'm not sure how rent stabilization works in SF, but you might contact the San Francisco Tenant's Union for their advice. They offer free virtual counseling for these kinds of issues.
posted by rabbitbookworm at 1:04 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
You were paying what the market would bear before the pandemic. It is now being listed at that the landlord thinks the market will bear during the pandemic, which happens to be less than you currently pay. There is no reason you should be irked by this. It is not incumbent upon the landlord to offer you a rent reduction just because the market rate for a new rental has decreased, and it would be a rare landlord indeed who would proactively lower the rent for a tenant. Landlords are not in the business of offering to make less money when they don't have to.
What you could have done is to approach the landlord and try to negotiate a lower rate. Some landlords will do this and others will not, even if they know that the market has dropped and any new tenant will be paying a lower rate. You can still try this. If you like your apartment and would be interested in staying there at the lower rate, you can approach the landlord and offer to sign a lease at the lower rate. No guarantee that the landlord will say yes, but you don't have anything to lose. I would present this as a win-win for both you and the landlord, since you would get a lower rate and the landlord would keep a known tenant and avoid additional loss of income due to the apartment being vacant. One of the nice things is that you now know what the landlord would be willing to take in rent for the apartment, so you know what to ask for. You might consider being open to, say, $3.1K a month as a way to sweeten the pot for the landlord. A $600 rent retention is nothing to sneeze at.
posted by slkinsey at 1:50 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
What you could have done is to approach the landlord and try to negotiate a lower rate. Some landlords will do this and others will not, even if they know that the market has dropped and any new tenant will be paying a lower rate. You can still try this. If you like your apartment and would be interested in staying there at the lower rate, you can approach the landlord and offer to sign a lease at the lower rate. No guarantee that the landlord will say yes, but you don't have anything to lose. I would present this as a win-win for both you and the landlord, since you would get a lower rate and the landlord would keep a known tenant and avoid additional loss of income due to the apartment being vacant. One of the nice things is that you now know what the landlord would be willing to take in rent for the apartment, so you know what to ask for. You might consider being open to, say, $3.1K a month as a way to sweeten the pot for the landlord. A $600 rent retention is nothing to sneeze at.
posted by slkinsey at 1:50 PM on August 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
This happened to me even before the pandemic, and they were trying to get me to pay even more if I wanted to renew. Then it was listed for less than what I had paid two years prior. It sucks but I couldn’t get anything out of it, they wouldn’t even have given me the new rate unless I moved to another apartment in the complex. I’m sorry! It sucks.
posted by sillysally at 2:09 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sillysally at 2:09 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
As others have said you were paying the going rate before but it’s lower now. But for sure...ask them if you can do a new lease at the rate they are now advertising. Nothing to lose by asking. It would seem that it’s easier just to keep the tenant they have and know pays on time vs trying to find a new tenant.
posted by ljs30 at 2:58 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by ljs30 at 2:58 PM on August 6, 2020
But for sure...ask them if you can do a new lease at the rate they are now advertising. Nothing to lose by asking. It would seem that it’s easier just to keep the tenant they have and know pays on time vs trying to find a new tenant.
I agree it would be worth asking, but be sure to do it in a friendly way as opposed to implying that they were ripping you off before or owe you something back. "Hey, I noticed that you've listed my apartment at $3k, if you'd be willing to give me that price I would love to stay on!"
But two things to keep in mind:
1: Where I live the monthly rent is much cheaper if you sign a 12 month lease, rather than go month to month. We get contacted every year at lease time to remind us that if we don't sign our lease on time our monthly rent will go up considerably. So they may only be willing to lower your rate if you sign a year's lease.
2: The $3k they are advertising may be an unstated "introductory rate" which they may raise somewhat at the end of the lease term. Ours is going up $100 this year from what we paid when we moved in last September.
So just be aware that those items may be in play when you ask for the lower rate.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:36 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I agree it would be worth asking, but be sure to do it in a friendly way as opposed to implying that they were ripping you off before or owe you something back. "Hey, I noticed that you've listed my apartment at $3k, if you'd be willing to give me that price I would love to stay on!"
But two things to keep in mind:
1: Where I live the monthly rent is much cheaper if you sign a 12 month lease, rather than go month to month. We get contacted every year at lease time to remind us that if we don't sign our lease on time our monthly rent will go up considerably. So they may only be willing to lower your rate if you sign a year's lease.
2: The $3k they are advertising may be an unstated "introductory rate" which they may raise somewhat at the end of the lease term. Ours is going up $100 this year from what we paid when we moved in last September.
So just be aware that those items may be in play when you ask for the lower rate.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:36 PM on August 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Okay this makes sense, thanks for the help guys!
posted by involute at 1:11 PM on August 8, 2020
posted by involute at 1:11 PM on August 8, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
You CAN ask them for the new price and probably should (If they think youre likely to pay on time and not have to eat any amount of lost income from the time between you leaving and a new tenant taking over it has a clear advantage for them over finding someone new at the new lower rate).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:14 PM on August 6, 2020 [18 favorites]