Help me feel better about enjoying long-form erotic content
August 4, 2020 8:43 PM Subscribe
Are you a well-adjusted person who enjoys long-form erotic content (traditional novels, visual novels, comics, manga, hentai, movies, whatever)? Help me feel less guilty about this extremely guilty pleasure!
Note: I'm only really interested in the opinions of people who appreciate some sort of long-form of erotic content. If you think it's bad or something (seems unlikely on metafilter, but still), I don't really want to hear from you.
The sort of content I'm talking about doesn't explicitly have to depict sex, but it certainly can (and the stuff I've been consuming does...though less than you'd think).
TLDR: I guess I'm looking for erotica-positive people to share their experiences and just make me feel a bit more normal for enjoying this sort of stuff. You can speak to the below, or just sort of talk about your own experiences enjoying erotica/unpacking prejudices. My friends are all pretty non-judgemental and I have one who is sort of on the same wavelength, but with most of my friends we just don’t talk about sex...and while there are communities for talking about this stuff, I haven't found one yet that sort of aligns with my views/politics.
I'm a cis bisexual man married to a woman. My marriage is good, our sex life is good. But lately I've been interested in trying to trying out what I'm cumbersomely calling "long-form erotic content" (novels, etc). I am a workaholic trying to prioritize relaxation and unproductive things, and this is part of that. Furthermore, I think I've always been interested in this sort of thing, but sort of...didn't want to admit it, probably partly due to the fact that romance novels are considered something for unhappy housewives, and partly because erotic content seemed like it was only for sex addicts or something. I know both of those things aren't true and I've largely disentangled all that, and I now feel a lot more comfortable exploring stuff that I currently wouldn't let myself for such misogynistic etc reasons. I’d say I no longer consider this stuff “for women,” but still perhaps deep in myself struggle with the idea of enjoying eroticism for its own sake.
That said, I'm pretty bad about guilty pleasures in general, and this seems like the guiltiest of pleasures. I'm an avid reader with strong empathy, so I find it really easy to get swept up in a story and identify with the characters...of course, which can enhance the experience of engaging with such content!
All that said, I don't know how to feel about my own engagement with this stuff. My wife doesn't mind at all, but I think I still just have some internalized prejudice about this sort of stuff. I guess escapism in general is tricky for me, but this sort of escapism in particular is tricky! I'm not sure how to think about being happily married, but then also you know...seeing out arousing content, especially where you come to identify with characters, find them attractive, etc etc. I think this is largely the crux of the issue for me.
I have historically consumed pornography, but that has always been very...transactional? Watch some videos, ejaculate, done. This feels very different than that, because it's not just about "the end," but about just sort of...enjoying eroticism. I guess perhaps due to my upbringing, I have always treated self-pleasure as like...enjoying, but something that you just sort of "do" to fill a need and then move on from. Enjoying eroticism for its own sake like I'd enjoy any other novel...is fun, but I guess I'm still unpacking some hangups. Ironically if anything reading this sort of stuff has actually helped my sex life...because in the past where when I was busy I might just masturbate to be "done" with it and get on with work, reading this sort of stuff often puts me in a sort of state of arousal which then makes me want to go seek out my wife (who doesn't complain :).
A related issue (though less central to this question) is just the sort of...politics of erotic content. There is allll sorts of content for allll sorts of tastes, and a lot of it is problematic. I don't really know how to feel about that! Thankfully my own interests are not too complicated (though certainly not perfect), but I mean...I guess I just don't know how to feel. I think this is actually a bigger issue that I've never quite figured out how to resolve, which is that in society, people are essentially allowed to be "problematic" when it comes to sex. There are lots of reasonable people who have rape fantasies (which I know doesn't mean they want to actually be raped! it's just a rather extreme example). There are also complex issues like people who are predominantly attracted to people of one race ("yellow fever"), people who are attracted to people older than them, etc. I've never been quite comfortable with that reality, and while I've tried to combat it in myself, I of course am still a product of society and still have that list of things that I'm attracted to and that I'm not...I'd sort of made my peace with that (especially given I'm married), but reading this stuff has sort of made me face that again... For example, I'm reading something now, and it's sort of given me some ideas for other sorts of things that I'd find pretty hot, which I put into a list. But when I look at that list, it feels...cringey, like I can see clearly where the patriarchal society we live in has shaped me. I don't know that any of us can escape from this, but I don't know.
Note: I'm only really interested in the opinions of people who appreciate some sort of long-form of erotic content. If you think it's bad or something (seems unlikely on metafilter, but still), I don't really want to hear from you.
The sort of content I'm talking about doesn't explicitly have to depict sex, but it certainly can (and the stuff I've been consuming does...though less than you'd think).
TLDR: I guess I'm looking for erotica-positive people to share their experiences and just make me feel a bit more normal for enjoying this sort of stuff. You can speak to the below, or just sort of talk about your own experiences enjoying erotica/unpacking prejudices. My friends are all pretty non-judgemental and I have one who is sort of on the same wavelength, but with most of my friends we just don’t talk about sex...and while there are communities for talking about this stuff, I haven't found one yet that sort of aligns with my views/politics.
I'm a cis bisexual man married to a woman. My marriage is good, our sex life is good. But lately I've been interested in trying to trying out what I'm cumbersomely calling "long-form erotic content" (novels, etc). I am a workaholic trying to prioritize relaxation and unproductive things, and this is part of that. Furthermore, I think I've always been interested in this sort of thing, but sort of...didn't want to admit it, probably partly due to the fact that romance novels are considered something for unhappy housewives, and partly because erotic content seemed like it was only for sex addicts or something. I know both of those things aren't true and I've largely disentangled all that, and I now feel a lot more comfortable exploring stuff that I currently wouldn't let myself for such misogynistic etc reasons. I’d say I no longer consider this stuff “for women,” but still perhaps deep in myself struggle with the idea of enjoying eroticism for its own sake.
That said, I'm pretty bad about guilty pleasures in general, and this seems like the guiltiest of pleasures. I'm an avid reader with strong empathy, so I find it really easy to get swept up in a story and identify with the characters...of course, which can enhance the experience of engaging with such content!
All that said, I don't know how to feel about my own engagement with this stuff. My wife doesn't mind at all, but I think I still just have some internalized prejudice about this sort of stuff. I guess escapism in general is tricky for me, but this sort of escapism in particular is tricky! I'm not sure how to think about being happily married, but then also you know...seeing out arousing content, especially where you come to identify with characters, find them attractive, etc etc. I think this is largely the crux of the issue for me.
I have historically consumed pornography, but that has always been very...transactional? Watch some videos, ejaculate, done. This feels very different than that, because it's not just about "the end," but about just sort of...enjoying eroticism. I guess perhaps due to my upbringing, I have always treated self-pleasure as like...enjoying, but something that you just sort of "do" to fill a need and then move on from. Enjoying eroticism for its own sake like I'd enjoy any other novel...is fun, but I guess I'm still unpacking some hangups. Ironically if anything reading this sort of stuff has actually helped my sex life...because in the past where when I was busy I might just masturbate to be "done" with it and get on with work, reading this sort of stuff often puts me in a sort of state of arousal which then makes me want to go seek out my wife (who doesn't complain :).
A related issue (though less central to this question) is just the sort of...politics of erotic content. There is allll sorts of content for allll sorts of tastes, and a lot of it is problematic. I don't really know how to feel about that! Thankfully my own interests are not too complicated (though certainly not perfect), but I mean...I guess I just don't know how to feel. I think this is actually a bigger issue that I've never quite figured out how to resolve, which is that in society, people are essentially allowed to be "problematic" when it comes to sex. There are lots of reasonable people who have rape fantasies (which I know doesn't mean they want to actually be raped! it's just a rather extreme example). There are also complex issues like people who are predominantly attracted to people of one race ("yellow fever"), people who are attracted to people older than them, etc. I've never been quite comfortable with that reality, and while I've tried to combat it in myself, I of course am still a product of society and still have that list of things that I'm attracted to and that I'm not...I'd sort of made my peace with that (especially given I'm married), but reading this stuff has sort of made me face that again... For example, I'm reading something now, and it's sort of given me some ideas for other sorts of things that I'd find pretty hot, which I put into a list. But when I look at that list, it feels...cringey, like I can see clearly where the patriarchal society we live in has shaped me. I don't know that any of us can escape from this, but I don't know.
(editing window closed but fyi I did see that you're not straight. so while that statement does not apply to you precisely as written, as a cultural norm it does seem to have some carry-over effect on many men who are attracted to women, generally.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:19 PM on August 4, 2020
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:19 PM on August 4, 2020
Right now Archive of Our Own contains 6.36 million works, a large percentage of which exist to scratch the itch you’re describing. If it’s something to be embarrassed about, at least you have a lot of company.
posted by lakeroon at 9:26 PM on August 4, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by lakeroon at 9:26 PM on August 4, 2020 [14 favorites]
There's an internal world in erotica - even in the plainest, here's nothing but sixty pages of gangbanging smut. Their physical and mental enjoyment is explicitly written, rather than inferred from a visual performance of people who may very well not be enjoying the sex. The other part is that most erotica is embedded in a narrative that considers emotions, especially desire and often vulnerability, and has some brief to deep characteristics to make a considerable amount of reader empathy. With visual porn, the emphasis is not on who or why, just the how. Written erotica scratches quite a different itch, and is much more interior.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:31 PM on August 4, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:31 PM on August 4, 2020 [14 favorites]
This isn't the deepest answer to your long, nuanced question, but you asked for some affirmation/story sharing, so... I'm a cisgender straight white woman, 41, and only in the last few years have I started reading and enjoying romance novels (and some erotica). I always sneered at Romance when I was younger because of the stereotypes, and of course, there is a lot of terribly written stuff out there, which was all I had seen. And yet - there is something about them that can be so satisfying, and if it's satisfying, then I don't think we should feel bad about it just because it's not Dostoevsky. At first, I only read them as e-books because no one could see me checking them out and judge me (or I could project their imagined judgment onto myself), but now I am open about it, and if I do feel a twinge of shame or embarrassment, I push past it. The ONLY thing I could stand to read during the first two months of lockdown were the Regency romances of Mary Balogh. They got me through it, and that is no small thing. I think it's important to fight against these societal "shoulds" that we all carry.
I hear you on feeling conflicted about some of the content. That's something I don't really have an answer for. Recently I was reading some stuff that was really hot for me, but I noticed it was affecting what I was able to fantasize about in a negative way - like, the parts I found problematic became an essential component of all my fantasies, in a way I didn't like and I decided to step back from that content. But usually that doesn't happen and I can just enjoy it despite the way it feeds into the patriarchy and without having it affect me on a deeper level. We grew up in the patriarchy and it has shaped our desires and turn ons, that's the reality. I think we should fight against it, and interrogate what we find sexy, but also sometimes what we find hot is what we find hot, socially acceptable or not. I don't have the answers to this, and I struggle with aspects of it. Maybe the question is whether it's changing how you think about or relate to real people in a negative way. That was the sticking point for me, when I felt like I was internalizing some of the mysogynistic elements of the erotica that was getting me off. I'm sure I'll read similar stuff again because I like it, but I'll pay close attention to whether it's getting to me like that again.
posted by sumiami at 9:38 PM on August 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
I hear you on feeling conflicted about some of the content. That's something I don't really have an answer for. Recently I was reading some stuff that was really hot for me, but I noticed it was affecting what I was able to fantasize about in a negative way - like, the parts I found problematic became an essential component of all my fantasies, in a way I didn't like and I decided to step back from that content. But usually that doesn't happen and I can just enjoy it despite the way it feeds into the patriarchy and without having it affect me on a deeper level. We grew up in the patriarchy and it has shaped our desires and turn ons, that's the reality. I think we should fight against it, and interrogate what we find sexy, but also sometimes what we find hot is what we find hot, socially acceptable or not. I don't have the answers to this, and I struggle with aspects of it. Maybe the question is whether it's changing how you think about or relate to real people in a negative way. That was the sticking point for me, when I felt like I was internalizing some of the mysogynistic elements of the erotica that was getting me off. I'm sure I'll read similar stuff again because I like it, but I'll pay close attention to whether it's getting to me like that again.
posted by sumiami at 9:38 PM on August 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
There's an internal world in erotica
yeah--without making any claims about relative realism, written pornography is about sex, whereas filmed pornography can only be about what sex looks and sounds like. such a small and restricted thing, pretending to be all of it. that's why sex scenes in real movies are (well, some of them) so much sexier than professional pornography: because talented film directors and actors can produce a better simulation of the intimate experience of sex than a literal filmed sex act ever could.
to be strictly fair, it is possible to write an "erotic story" that might as well be closed captioning of a porn video; you can describe action without sensation if you're really committed to it. not sure why people bother but still. but I understand the OP's reading things that are well above that level in complexity.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:46 PM on August 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
Ironically if anything reading this sort of stuff has actually helped my sex life.
That’s not ironic at all - it’s half the point of erotica! It’s SUPPOSED to help you access the sexual side of yourself, which of course will help your sex life. You sound like someone who is pretty uncomfortable with the notion of having a sexual side - but you clearly do, and erotica is not only totally normal, it’s a time honored way of getting more comfortable with your sexuality.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:15 PM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
That’s not ironic at all - it’s half the point of erotica! It’s SUPPOSED to help you access the sexual side of yourself, which of course will help your sex life. You sound like someone who is pretty uncomfortable with the notion of having a sexual side - but you clearly do, and erotica is not only totally normal, it’s a time honored way of getting more comfortable with your sexuality.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:15 PM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
Here's the thing. Each and every one of us is problematic in some way. So is all fiction, because it is the product of our imperfect imaginations. BUT. On the scale of how actively bad a thing is... fiction, even the kinkiest, most violent least consensual written story, is still objectively not actively bad, because no actual living beings are harmed in its production. Having dark fantasies doesn't make you a bad person any more than reading Agatha Christie makes you a murderer.
Also, I would ask yourself... how much of your negative feeling toward erotica is coming from the fact that the US as a culture is still very Puritan? Remember, the Puritans were a cult who got kicked out of Europe for hating fun too much. They should not be taken as a model of normal human behaviour. Sex - and I say this as an asexual person - is a normal part of human existence. It can be joyful and wonderful and deepen connection and trust - yes, even (maybe especially) kinky BDSM. As can reading about it, because it connects you to yourself (and perhaps your partner) in a way that can't be replaced by anything else.
The other thing is that a lot of erotica writers, especially queer/kinky ones, self-publish, because the Big Five don't want their content. So there's a whole lot more scope to support indie creators and do good that way. Plus, there is, increasingly, a subset of erotica that interrogates the tropes and assumptions in the genre, some that's actively feminist and consent-forward. But even without all of that, there's still nothing wrong with consuming it and you should let yourself do so.
posted by Tamanna at 11:13 PM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, I would ask yourself... how much of your negative feeling toward erotica is coming from the fact that the US as a culture is still very Puritan? Remember, the Puritans were a cult who got kicked out of Europe for hating fun too much. They should not be taken as a model of normal human behaviour. Sex - and I say this as an asexual person - is a normal part of human existence. It can be joyful and wonderful and deepen connection and trust - yes, even (maybe especially) kinky BDSM. As can reading about it, because it connects you to yourself (and perhaps your partner) in a way that can't be replaced by anything else.
The other thing is that a lot of erotica writers, especially queer/kinky ones, self-publish, because the Big Five don't want their content. So there's a whole lot more scope to support indie creators and do good that way. Plus, there is, increasingly, a subset of erotica that interrogates the tropes and assumptions in the genre, some that's actively feminist and consent-forward. But even without all of that, there's still nothing wrong with consuming it and you should let yourself do so.
posted by Tamanna at 11:13 PM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure how to think about being happily married, but then also you know...seeing out arousing content, especially where you come to identify with characters, find them attractive, etc etc.
Your question reminded me of a recent Ladies We Need to Talk podcast episode on erotic fiction.
posted by wavelette at 12:19 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Your question reminded me of a recent Ladies We Need to Talk podcast episode on erotic fiction.
posted by wavelette at 12:19 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Data point:
I'm mostly female and my partner is male. If he told me he had an interest in this kind of media, I would be absolutely, fully okay with that. I might even be interested in sharing his experience in one way or another.
You do not have anything to feel guilty about here. It's fine.
Here's a viewpoint you may have not yet considered: the characters are conjured up inside your mind, so they at least partially consist of aspects of your own mind. I would argue that their attractiveness to you is of your own creation.
You are being aroused by your own thoughts and ideas, poured into the vessels created by the writer. In other words, you are arousing yourself, using the media as a tool. This is absolutely fine.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:07 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm mostly female and my partner is male. If he told me he had an interest in this kind of media, I would be absolutely, fully okay with that. I might even be interested in sharing his experience in one way or another.
You do not have anything to feel guilty about here. It's fine.
Here's a viewpoint you may have not yet considered: the characters are conjured up inside your mind, so they at least partially consist of aspects of your own mind. I would argue that their attractiveness to you is of your own creation.
You are being aroused by your own thoughts and ideas, poured into the vessels created by the writer. In other words, you are arousing yourself, using the media as a tool. This is absolutely fine.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:07 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
happily married, but then also you know...seeing out arousing content, especially where you come to identify with characters, find them attractive, etc etc. I think this is largely the crux of the issue for me.
POV: Woman who reads erotica.
I assume that most men watch porn, and that doesn't bother me. But someone who enjoyed erotica - we could read stories to each other, swap books, write stuff back and forth - just selfishly, there are tons of delightful ways to connect with a partner through erotica.
It sounds like some of the stuff you're reading and finding to be interesting is troubling you. Though as you also say, people may find it arousing to read about things that they'd absolutely never want to do in real life. And writers/readers of erotica might find it helpful to write out fantasies that they can't or won't actually carry about.
Right now the way that you're describing your experiences with erotica seems like an avenue for growth, self-knowledge and exploration which you could perhaps dig into with a journal.
You could create a sort of rubric (maybe not the right word exactly?) for yourself, like:
* Who am I supporting by reading this content (the publisher, the author) and am ok with that?
* Is anyone being harmed, directly or indirectly, by this content? For example, does it perpetuate harmful stereotypes?
* How do I feel after reading it?
* Do I behave differently after reading it?
* Does this content influence the way I think about different people or behaviors, and am I okay with that?
Those are just a few ideas - you'd want to think about what's important/concerning for you.
And all that said - I skip annoying and disturbing content. Life's too short.
posted by bunderful at 6:01 AM on August 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
POV: Woman who reads erotica.
I assume that most men watch porn, and that doesn't bother me. But someone who enjoyed erotica - we could read stories to each other, swap books, write stuff back and forth - just selfishly, there are tons of delightful ways to connect with a partner through erotica.
It sounds like some of the stuff you're reading and finding to be interesting is troubling you. Though as you also say, people may find it arousing to read about things that they'd absolutely never want to do in real life. And writers/readers of erotica might find it helpful to write out fantasies that they can't or won't actually carry about.
Right now the way that you're describing your experiences with erotica seems like an avenue for growth, self-knowledge and exploration which you could perhaps dig into with a journal.
You could create a sort of rubric (maybe not the right word exactly?) for yourself, like:
* Who am I supporting by reading this content (the publisher, the author) and am ok with that?
* Is anyone being harmed, directly or indirectly, by this content? For example, does it perpetuate harmful stereotypes?
* How do I feel after reading it?
* Do I behave differently after reading it?
* Does this content influence the way I think about different people or behaviors, and am I okay with that?
Those are just a few ideas - you'd want to think about what's important/concerning for you.
And all that said - I skip annoying and disturbing content. Life's too short.
posted by bunderful at 6:01 AM on August 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
One idea - you could start seeing the sexual/erotic elements of the books or movies you're seeing as just an element of a story that's ostensibly about something else.
I think I'm going to explain this best by example. Three of the absolute hands-down sexiest, most erotic films I've ever seen were 1990's Henry and June, 1994's Sirens and Ang Lee's 2007 film Lust, Caution. All three feature a lot of sexual acts and eroticism, but...in all cases it's eroticism that's serving a larger story. In the case of Henry and June, it tells the story of the writer Anais Nin's relationship with Henry Miller and with Miller's wife June; with Sirens, it's loosely based on the life of an Australian artist and is a statement about the clash between religion's teachings about sensuality and sensuality itself; and with Lust, Caution, it's an ultimately tragic espionage story set in 1930s China.
In those three cases, all the stories were compelling enough that any kind of inner critic I had could be silenced by "oh, wait, this isn't a 'dirty movie', there's a story here." And, all three movies were rich enough in the eroticism that....er, that side of me was satisfied as well.
And that's kind of how I personally think it should be. Our erotic sides are just one facet of who we are. They happen to be a dang big facet, but they're facets - parts of the whole. If you make it into the absolute goal to the exclusion of everything else ultimately that will be unsatisfying. But if you pursue art or media that incorporates sexuality as part of a larger story, that....well, feels a little more balanced to me, for lack of a better word.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:08 AM on August 5, 2020
I think I'm going to explain this best by example. Three of the absolute hands-down sexiest, most erotic films I've ever seen were 1990's Henry and June, 1994's Sirens and Ang Lee's 2007 film Lust, Caution. All three feature a lot of sexual acts and eroticism, but...in all cases it's eroticism that's serving a larger story. In the case of Henry and June, it tells the story of the writer Anais Nin's relationship with Henry Miller and with Miller's wife June; with Sirens, it's loosely based on the life of an Australian artist and is a statement about the clash between religion's teachings about sensuality and sensuality itself; and with Lust, Caution, it's an ultimately tragic espionage story set in 1930s China.
In those three cases, all the stories were compelling enough that any kind of inner critic I had could be silenced by "oh, wait, this isn't a 'dirty movie', there's a story here." And, all three movies were rich enough in the eroticism that....er, that side of me was satisfied as well.
And that's kind of how I personally think it should be. Our erotic sides are just one facet of who we are. They happen to be a dang big facet, but they're facets - parts of the whole. If you make it into the absolute goal to the exclusion of everything else ultimately that will be unsatisfying. But if you pursue art or media that incorporates sexuality as part of a larger story, that....well, feels a little more balanced to me, for lack of a better word.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:08 AM on August 5, 2020
you could start seeing the sexual/erotic elements of the books or movies you're seeing as just an element of a story
I mean, sex/eroticism/whatever is a normal part of human life. Writing or reading about it ought to have the same kind of valence as writing or reading about any other part of human life. You can read all kinds of novels for fun or to expand your thinking; you can uncritically read novels that have horrible values and end up reinforcing bad values in your own life; you can read only very light stuff that doesn't push you to grow as a reader and....well, you won't grow as a reader. You can read only one kind of story by one kind of person and, again, not change as a reader. You can read a lot of kinds of novels and consistently seek out a particular kind for hobby reading.
Consider great novelist and literary critic Samuel Delany, for instance. Not only do many of his novels have extremely explicit sexual passages, not only are some of his novels primarily driven by a sexual plot issue (Stars In My Pocket Like Grains Of Sand , for instance) but he's literally published a bunch of pornography. Granted, his porn has a lot of plot and a lot of literary value, but it's written as pornography.
On another note, I think it's okay to say, "no, I might find that hot but I also find it morally repulsive". As a society, we tend to frame things as "only a monster would find [this problematic thing] sexually appealing" or "because this is sexually appealing it must in some way not be monstrous". And we tend to assume that sexual desire is this sort of all-consuming tide - if you desire something, well, [unless your desire is Monstrous] you must work to have it or as close to having it as you can get. Not to have fulfillment of as many as possible of your sexual desires is framed as a tragedy and some kind of insult to your very self.
But I differ! It's okay to say, "hey, I am socialized to find [creepy things or just things I don't want to think about] really hot, but I'm just not going to look at those things. If I see them, I'll tell myself "no" and move on, just like if I were trying to quit spending too much money on a hobby, I wouldn't spend a lot of time looking at hobby magazines and ads for new products." This isn't the same as saying, "I will never have a sexual feeling again".
So one option for you is always to decide which erotic themes are both compelling to you and in line with your values, and sticking to those.
On a personal level, a lot of the lefty people I follow on social media sometimes post basically softcore material. I filter it out or scroll by it. I'm in my forties, a lot of these people are in their mid-twenties, and I've decided that the person I am is a person who doesn't engage with some twenty-five-year-old commie's erotic photos. Other people can do as they wish, but for a variety of reasons I don't want to be that person. It hasn't killed me, destroyed my sex life or ruined my ability to desire; all it's done is make sure that I keep my "young commie political analysis" headspace free of porn.
If you're troubled by some of the stuff that casually interests you, you can focus on other things. Some people have overriding sexual desires that can't be pushed aside, but as a society, we tend to use the same "but it's overwhelming" narrative for someone who has a serious, deep-rooted fetish and someone who gets interested in creepy racist porn.
posted by Frowner at 7:51 AM on August 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
I mean, sex/eroticism/whatever is a normal part of human life. Writing or reading about it ought to have the same kind of valence as writing or reading about any other part of human life. You can read all kinds of novels for fun or to expand your thinking; you can uncritically read novels that have horrible values and end up reinforcing bad values in your own life; you can read only very light stuff that doesn't push you to grow as a reader and....well, you won't grow as a reader. You can read only one kind of story by one kind of person and, again, not change as a reader. You can read a lot of kinds of novels and consistently seek out a particular kind for hobby reading.
Consider great novelist and literary critic Samuel Delany, for instance. Not only do many of his novels have extremely explicit sexual passages, not only are some of his novels primarily driven by a sexual plot issue (Stars In My Pocket Like Grains Of Sand , for instance) but he's literally published a bunch of pornography. Granted, his porn has a lot of plot and a lot of literary value, but it's written as pornography.
On another note, I think it's okay to say, "no, I might find that hot but I also find it morally repulsive". As a society, we tend to frame things as "only a monster would find [this problematic thing] sexually appealing" or "because this is sexually appealing it must in some way not be monstrous". And we tend to assume that sexual desire is this sort of all-consuming tide - if you desire something, well, [unless your desire is Monstrous] you must work to have it or as close to having it as you can get. Not to have fulfillment of as many as possible of your sexual desires is framed as a tragedy and some kind of insult to your very self.
But I differ! It's okay to say, "hey, I am socialized to find [creepy things or just things I don't want to think about] really hot, but I'm just not going to look at those things. If I see them, I'll tell myself "no" and move on, just like if I were trying to quit spending too much money on a hobby, I wouldn't spend a lot of time looking at hobby magazines and ads for new products." This isn't the same as saying, "I will never have a sexual feeling again".
So one option for you is always to decide which erotic themes are both compelling to you and in line with your values, and sticking to those.
On a personal level, a lot of the lefty people I follow on social media sometimes post basically softcore material. I filter it out or scroll by it. I'm in my forties, a lot of these people are in their mid-twenties, and I've decided that the person I am is a person who doesn't engage with some twenty-five-year-old commie's erotic photos. Other people can do as they wish, but for a variety of reasons I don't want to be that person. It hasn't killed me, destroyed my sex life or ruined my ability to desire; all it's done is make sure that I keep my "young commie political analysis" headspace free of porn.
If you're troubled by some of the stuff that casually interests you, you can focus on other things. Some people have overriding sexual desires that can't be pushed aside, but as a society, we tend to use the same "but it's overwhelming" narrative for someone who has a serious, deep-rooted fetish and someone who gets interested in creepy racist porn.
posted by Frowner at 7:51 AM on August 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
I have a lot of experience in my past lives in writing erotica, editing erotica, consuming erotica, and forming/belonging to communities online that discuss this stuff. Please feel free to PM me for additional details.
posted by dpx.mfx at 10:15 AM on August 5, 2020
posted by dpx.mfx at 10:15 AM on August 5, 2020
One idea is to share these with your wife. For example you could watch a movie with her. Both of you are likely to end up in a state of arousal. Doing an activity with other people has a strong normalizing affect.
posted by bdc34 at 10:15 AM on August 5, 2020
posted by bdc34 at 10:15 AM on August 5, 2020
I mean, sex/eroticism/whatever is a normal part of human life. Writing or reading about it ought to have the same kind of valence as writing or reading about any other part of human life.
To redirect - this is actually kind of what I was getting at. It may be that the OP was feeling like long-form erotica occupied the same space as the shorter-form quick-and-dirty stuff, most of which does treat the erotic impulse as the be-all and end-all of things. I was trying to point out that longer-form stuff usually doesn't treat things that way, and that maybe bearing in mind that just because a longer-form thing might have a number of erotic elements to it, that didn't necessarily mean it should be grouped with the shorter stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on August 5, 2020
To redirect - this is actually kind of what I was getting at. It may be that the OP was feeling like long-form erotica occupied the same space as the shorter-form quick-and-dirty stuff, most of which does treat the erotic impulse as the be-all and end-all of things. I was trying to point out that longer-form stuff usually doesn't treat things that way, and that maybe bearing in mind that just because a longer-form thing might have a number of erotic elements to it, that didn't necessarily mean it should be grouped with the shorter stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:41 AM on August 5, 2020
Not sure if that will help, but:
I'm 40+, hetero female and only just discovered romance novels. Tbh, I'm a seriously picky reader. I hate it when characters don't make sense, when they don't react and interact realistically. And I thought romance was pretty shite.
I mean, there IS a lot of shlock out there, but like in any genre there is better and worse writing. Though arguably well-written characters matter more in romance, because it's basically characters bouncing off each other till they stick.
That is, a well-written romance will give you satisfaction emotionally. It will address wants and lacks you didn't realise you have. Well-written romance will use sex scenes to develop characters and relationships and plots, not just as a titillation device.
Anyway, I realised that as a hetero woman, I actually hate most of the hetero romance I found because of the gender stereotypes. When I first read historical gay romance, it was a revelation. (It's probably full of other stereotypes that I don't recognise yet?).
If you enjoy the same sort of reading experience as me, I can recommend KJ Charles. Never found better quality of characterisation.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:47 PM on August 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm 40+, hetero female and only just discovered romance novels. Tbh, I'm a seriously picky reader. I hate it when characters don't make sense, when they don't react and interact realistically. And I thought romance was pretty shite.
I mean, there IS a lot of shlock out there, but like in any genre there is better and worse writing. Though arguably well-written characters matter more in romance, because it's basically characters bouncing off each other till they stick.
That is, a well-written romance will give you satisfaction emotionally. It will address wants and lacks you didn't realise you have. Well-written romance will use sex scenes to develop characters and relationships and plots, not just as a titillation device.
Anyway, I realised that as a hetero woman, I actually hate most of the hetero romance I found because of the gender stereotypes. When I first read historical gay romance, it was a revelation. (It's probably full of other stereotypes that I don't recognise yet?).
If you enjoy the same sort of reading experience as me, I can recommend KJ Charles. Never found better quality of characterisation.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:47 PM on August 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, PM me if you want to chat about this; most of my reading friends can't understand why erotica is worth reading and the whole thing is still stigmatised, so I am happy to enthuse with you!
posted by Omnomnom at 1:55 PM on August 5, 2020
posted by Omnomnom at 1:55 PM on August 5, 2020
I've written erotica, and read it. The long form element expands the temporal pleasures - the arousal and jerking off - to a more holistic enjoyment. For me a lot of the erotica I enjoy revolves around the slow learning process of a relationship, of people getting to know each other and also themselves. Often in situations and moments of trauma, and recovery. The erotica allows me to connect with a part of myself that does get obscured by the temporal burst of porn, and the erasure of erotic content in mainstream media.
Erotica is a way of actually connecting with a self that is otherwise partitioned away. In a way that engages the whole self, rather than simply sexual drive.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:49 PM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Erotica is a way of actually connecting with a self that is otherwise partitioned away. In a way that engages the whole self, rather than simply sexual drive.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:49 PM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am a queer man who loves what you are calling "long-form erotic content," and honestly discovering how much I enjoy this sort of thing has been one of the big world-expanding pleasures of the last five years for me. Like others are saying upthread for a long time I had preconceived notions about romance novels and fanfic, but thanks in large part to Metafilter I realized those were empty-headed prejudices. When I actually started to read romance novels/erotica for myself I realized how powerful they can be. People have long argued over whether reading fiction makes you more empathetic, but I was amazed that I found myself highly engaged in well-written depictions of sexual configurations that IRL would have no interest for me. I personally think you are doing something great for your emotional intelligence and furthermore I think the whole concept of a "guilty pleasure" is unhelpful. Guilt in general is unhelpful, especially over something as minor as your preferred choice of entertainment.
posted by zeusianfog at 3:51 PM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by zeusianfog at 3:51 PM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
(I have a friend who'd be interested in specific content if anyone else feels like naming authors/websites).
posted by bunderful at 9:37 PM on August 5, 2020
posted by bunderful at 9:37 PM on August 5, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
yeah, it is different! it's much, much, much, much better. it's morally defensible. "more" morally defensible, some would say, but let's just say totally invulnerable to moral attack in a way that videos of real live people can never, ever be, unless you made them yourself and are the only performer in them.
if you didn't feel guilty about watching videos but do feel guilty about reading stories, your moral unease-sensors are 100 percent upside down and need immediate & serious recalibration.
knowing for a certain fact that nobody real was hurt or harmed or coerced or traumatized or made uncomfortable, not even briefly, emotionally, not even a little bit, for your private pleasures, is worth a whole lot. not just being reasonably sure that they probably weren't -- everyone will either say they're pretty sure or pretend to be completely sure -- but knowing for a fact that they literally couldn't have been. that's worth so much. isn't it?
fictional material that is solely the product of one human imagination can be plenty sexist, misogynistic, racist, and generally hateful, and lots of it is; not incidentally, but because that's where lots of the power of pornography comes from. neither text nor art nor live-action video nor personal private fantasy are guaranteed free from all this. but moving from film of real people to text about fake people means that you are no longer directly responsible for trying to be aware about worker safety and mistreatment and payment and all the things that you are obligated to care about if you watch videos. caring about that kind of thing interferes with the whole point of watching porn, which is why people, broadly speaking, don't care.
your whole set of issues re: eroticism are self-focused. that's natural. but if you are only interested in the way erotica makes you feel about yourself, you are much better off exploring the world of dirty fiction, where you are the only person affected. you will be a better person for it.
(Not that authors aren't people. but being paid to write things down and being paid to act them out are very different experiences.)
I have also often thought that straight men's contemporary disgust-aversion to serious erotic content is one reason why so many straight men have absolutely no concept of the erotic. but it's a good thing to have.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:10 PM on August 4, 2020 [22 favorites]