How to fix this former gravel drive?
August 4, 2020 7:42 AM Subscribe
We have an....area which used to be a gravel-covered drive. It's entirely overgrown now. I've found all kinds of instructions for creating a totally new gravel drive but few for fixing an old one. What do I do?
It's overgrown with little weeds. Underneath is a layer of soil and below that the base of the old drive.
A friend has told me that all I need to do is cut the weeds really close, have a load of gravel delivered and rake it over, but won't the weeds just grow back up through the gravel?
Whatever we do will have to be done by me using a shovel - we need to get this fixed, but we don't have money for a service or expensive new tools. I could probably hire someone to do part of any digging that is required.
It's overgrown with little weeds. Underneath is a layer of soil and below that the base of the old drive.
A friend has told me that all I need to do is cut the weeds really close, have a load of gravel delivered and rake it over, but won't the weeds just grow back up through the gravel?
Whatever we do will have to be done by me using a shovel - we need to get this fixed, but we don't have money for a service or expensive new tools. I could probably hire someone to do part of any digging that is required.
Weeds are likely to come back if the soil is still there, and gravel on top of soil will slowly become gravel mixed with soil and weeds and be a royal pain to dig out. You may have to dig out the weeds and soil down to the base level before adding new gravel to prevent this.
In the old days you'd spray this with something evil (sodium chlorate) and cart off the dead earth a week later. But we don't do that now.
posted by scruss at 8:34 AM on August 4, 2020
In the old days you'd spray this with something evil (sodium chlorate) and cart off the dead earth a week later. But we don't do that now.
posted by scruss at 8:34 AM on August 4, 2020
Ideally you would remove the top layer of dirt and mixed rock down to the base layer, and then place and compact a new layer of gravel. Just adding new gravel on top won’t work well because of the issues mentioned above.
This can all be done by hand though you would probably want to rent a compactor, or it would be fast and easy for someone with a bobcat if the area is big enough.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2020
This can all be done by hand though you would probably want to rent a compactor, or it would be fast and easy for someone with a bobcat if the area is big enough.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2020
Response by poster: It's really just an area to park a couple of cars, and I just want it not to violate city ordinances. Do you think I could tarp it over the winter to kill everything, shovel off the soil and add gravel in the spring?
posted by Frowner at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2020
posted by Frowner at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2020
How big is it? We use a hoe like this one on our gravel paths, which cuts the weeds out without disturbing the actual gravel surface too much. You might have to weedwhack first if they are too tall.
Tarping over the winter is unlikely to do anything, most weeds are either annuals and will regrow from seed in the spring or dormant anyway.
posted by lydhre at 9:32 AM on August 4, 2020
Tarping over the winter is unlikely to do anything, most weeds are either annuals and will regrow from seed in the spring or dormant anyway.
posted by lydhre at 9:32 AM on August 4, 2020
You could try solarizing it - basically cover it in plastic for a few months, ideally while it's still hot out, to kill the weeds. If it's an area that gets sun it can supposedly get hot enough to kill even fairly durable weed seeds, but I've never done this myself. Some people seem to say black plastic works better (for heat absorption), others say clear is better (for greenhouse effect, and you can see what's happening).
posted by mskyle at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
My neighbour has one of these. It's a lot of fun.
posted by flabdablet at 10:33 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 10:33 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you have up to maybe $50 to throw at this situation, you might want to check out some version of weed torch (apologies for Amazon link but that gives you an idea of the range of models and prices out there). I had a very similar driveway situation and found that the torch did a very good job of eliminating the weeds. Additional bonus is that it's a great stress relief to stand outside annihilating the weeds and muttering "Burn them all! KILL IT with fire!!" while picturing, oh, say, any political figure you'd like to see sent to a fiery demise.
(Hah, flabdablet just cross-posted with me...)
posted by Kat Allison at 10:36 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
(Hah, flabdablet just cross-posted with me...)
posted by Kat Allison at 10:36 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
In the organic gardening world, we use plain cardboard (not the kind printed with shiny plastic images) to smother weeds. Here's an article with more. You would do this for a full growing season (from roughly the last frost in spring to first frost in fall) or a full year, depending on your climate (Do you get a hard frost?). Then remove and cover with additional gravel.
You can also spray them with vinegar, or use a propane weed burner torch. I would do this after cutting back and adding additional gravel.
posted by amaire at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2020
You can also spray them with vinegar, or use a propane weed burner torch. I would do this after cutting back and adding additional gravel.
posted by amaire at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2020
Nthing the flamethrower weeder--so satisfying! Keep your hose on hand, just in case. I've also salted the land with some success. Mix 1 part salt to 3 parts vinegar and saturate the area. Keep it away from any plants you want to live.
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 AM on August 4, 2020
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 AM on August 4, 2020
You are correct, weeds will just grow back through new gravel.
I'm in the same boat as you, and while I have not done it yet, my plan after a bit of research is to cut the weeds very close to the ground and saturate the area with a salt solution, then put fresh gravel on top.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:51 AM on August 4, 2020
I'm in the same boat as you, and while I have not done it yet, my plan after a bit of research is to cut the weeds very close to the ground and saturate the area with a salt solution, then put fresh gravel on top.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:51 AM on August 4, 2020
The weed torch is indeed super fun, but what we did with our own gravel drive was just kept dumping an aggregate of granite gravel and coarse sand on it (the kind you can buy premixed to make concrete out of, but with no added cement) and just driving on it and then raking loose stuff into the resulting ruts until it all packs in. That takes a few weeks per round.
After about five rounds of this over the last twenty years there is so much gravel packed in so hard that only the tiniest, hardiest weeds can make a living on it and the rate at which those break down into topsoil in the tiny remaining interstices simply doesn't matter; we crush them when we drive on them and even after a pretty torrential rain the tyres just don't make ruts any more.
posted by flabdablet at 11:21 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
After about five rounds of this over the last twenty years there is so much gravel packed in so hard that only the tiniest, hardiest weeds can make a living on it and the rate at which those break down into topsoil in the tiny remaining interstices simply doesn't matter; we crush them when we drive on them and even after a pretty torrential rain the tyres just don't make ruts any more.
posted by flabdablet at 11:21 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
When I got my gravel drive replaced by an eco-conscious contractor he used horticulture grade vinegar. Whole thing smelled like a salad for a few days.
posted by genmonster at 12:15 PM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by genmonster at 12:15 PM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've never done a gravel drive, but for gravel paths we always put a layer of weedcloth between the compacted substrate and the gravel. That is very successful at keeping weeds from growing up through the gravel. I would be inclined to weedwhack the area closely, level and compact it as much as feasible with your budget and tools, and then lay down weed cloth and then gravel. If you have weeds like bermudagrass that send long runners, kill as many of them as you can first through solarization, herbicide, or hand digging, and then overlap the pieces of weed cloth by quite a bit.
posted by agentofselection at 1:59 PM on August 4, 2020
posted by agentofselection at 1:59 PM on August 4, 2020
Despite my dislike for herbicides I would spray several times over several months to take out much of the germinable seeds - what you use depends on what weeds you have as no herbicide kills all weeds. Then I would put ~4 inches/100mm of certified clean and certified weed free, washed aggregate over the top.
This needs to be crushed so it will lock together. The reason for washed is it means there are no fines which makes this mix very different from soil and less likely to support seed germination. It also helps to isolate the road bed from the garden with a vertical edging that extents from surface down 6 inches/150mm or so.
I also do so called gravel grass aka schotterrasen driving surfaces which are grassed and mowable surfaces that will handle firetrucks. Something you might consider if you're ever to rebuild the surface. They are primarily done for stormwater purposes, altho' they are inherently dust free and help reduce the heat island effect.
posted by unearthed at 2:17 PM on August 4, 2020
This needs to be crushed so it will lock together. The reason for washed is it means there are no fines which makes this mix very different from soil and less likely to support seed germination. It also helps to isolate the road bed from the garden with a vertical edging that extents from surface down 6 inches/150mm or so.
I also do so called gravel grass aka schotterrasen driving surfaces which are grassed and mowable surfaces that will handle firetrucks. Something you might consider if you're ever to rebuild the surface. They are primarily done for stormwater purposes, altho' they are inherently dust free and help reduce the heat island effect.
posted by unearthed at 2:17 PM on August 4, 2020
I'm gonna take an unpopular stance here. I would buy compare-and-save Glyphosate concentrate (basically roundup). One container of this makes 81 gallons of roundup, then you buy a plastic hand-sprayer. You fill the sprayer with water halfway, add a few shot glasses of concentrate, then add more water and close.
The rumors and lawsuits around roundup, were in my opinion, 1: mostly extremely high exposure, and 2: largely unfounded.
Spray leaves with it every time you mow the lawn. After about a week, the plants die.
One thing I didn't realize when I had a gravel driveway, is that a new layer of gravel looks really, really nice, and is only $250 delivered. So if you want to have a beautiful new gravel driveway, it wouldn't be super expensive. I think it will take a few years for weeds to come back through the new gravel if it's thick and not too dirty.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:35 AM on August 5, 2020
The rumors and lawsuits around roundup, were in my opinion, 1: mostly extremely high exposure, and 2: largely unfounded.
Spray leaves with it every time you mow the lawn. After about a week, the plants die.
One thing I didn't realize when I had a gravel driveway, is that a new layer of gravel looks really, really nice, and is only $250 delivered. So if you want to have a beautiful new gravel driveway, it wouldn't be super expensive. I think it will take a few years for weeds to come back through the new gravel if it's thick and not too dirty.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:35 AM on August 5, 2020
Response by poster: My partner really, really doesn't want to use chemical herbicides - I'm a bit on the fence and might use something if I looked into it more and the city were really on my case.
Right now I'm thinking a combination of weed torch, vinegar, a little digging because it seems like you really need to lower the surface level before you use...weed cloth, and then gravel.
Part of the problem here is that we don't have a car, so nothing is ever parked there which means no compacting. That's also part of why we let it go for too long - we just weren't thinking about it because we're basically never looking at it.
posted by Frowner at 8:10 AM on August 5, 2020
Right now I'm thinking a combination of weed torch, vinegar, a little digging because it seems like you really need to lower the surface level before you use...weed cloth, and then gravel.
Part of the problem here is that we don't have a car, so nothing is ever parked there which means no compacting. That's also part of why we let it go for too long - we just weren't thinking about it because we're basically never looking at it.
posted by Frowner at 8:10 AM on August 5, 2020
If you don't have a car, why not just throw a bit of grass and clover seed mix in there and declare Job Done?
posted by flabdablet at 11:17 AM on August 5, 2020
posted by flabdablet at 11:17 AM on August 5, 2020
Response by poster: Because it's the parking area on the alley and the city requires that it be kept paved or graveled. That was the first thing I considered, but sadly it is illegal!
posted by Frowner at 11:35 AM on August 5, 2020
posted by Frowner at 11:35 AM on August 5, 2020
How much inconvenience would it cause you to rent it out to somebody else who needs a place to park? If that worked, you'd get regular surface wear and compaction and the problem would largely take care of itself, plus beer money.
posted by flabdablet at 1:12 AM on August 6, 2020
posted by flabdablet at 1:12 AM on August 6, 2020
Well I got off my ass and mixed a cup of table salt with 4 litres (Just shy of a gallon) of regular vinegar (5% acetic acid) and I'm fairly impressed. First two pictures are before and 24 hours after application. I will probably spray at least one more time after weed-whacking right down to the ground, then scatter a layer of rock salt, and then cover that with a couple of of cubic yards of A-Base.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:35 PM on August 9, 2020
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:35 PM on August 9, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jon1270 at 8:29 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]