Friends and family can be a tough crowd
July 16, 2020 1:39 PM Subscribe
I've noticed that when other people (and me) accomplish something that was hard, some friends and family don't even mention the accomplishment even though they've been aware of the work getting there over months or years. Why is that?
I found this article - https://kletische.com/how-to-handle-jealousy-from-friends-and-family/ - which gives a bunch of reasons, but also suggests dealing with your achievements by playing them down so as to not aggravate those friends and family to envy or jealousy. I am PRETTY good at being happy over a job well done w/o fishing for praise, but I do it sometimes when I am especially geeked out over something I'm proud of. Is the advice in this article good or does it miss some stuff?
I found this article - https://kletische.com/how-to-handle-jealousy-from-friends-and-family/ - which gives a bunch of reasons, but also suggests dealing with your achievements by playing them down so as to not aggravate those friends and family to envy or jealousy. I am PRETTY good at being happy over a job well done w/o fishing for praise, but I do it sometimes when I am especially geeked out over something I'm proud of. Is the advice in this article good or does it miss some stuff?
This resonates with me a bit with a dynamic I’ve noticed in my husband’s family. I can remember some accomplishments he achieved where I found myself saying to him, “I’m proud of you! You did it!” And I knew he wouldn’t hear that from his family, so I almost felt I was modeling how to congratulate someone to them and him.
For them, I think they have some feelings of insecurity where maybe they think he doesn’t need to hear their approval or congratulations. They assume he knows it. Or that he doesn’t need to hear it from them because he’s already been congratulated or acknowledged so much by .... I don’t know who. I noticed his mom did send him a card once where she wrote “Congratulations” to him after a big promotion. I think it was easier for her to say in writing.
posted by areaperson at 2:50 PM on July 16, 2020
For them, I think they have some feelings of insecurity where maybe they think he doesn’t need to hear their approval or congratulations. They assume he knows it. Or that he doesn’t need to hear it from them because he’s already been congratulated or acknowledged so much by .... I don’t know who. I noticed his mom did send him a card once where she wrote “Congratulations” to him after a big promotion. I think it was easier for her to say in writing.
posted by areaperson at 2:50 PM on July 16, 2020
I don't know if it applies in this case, and it may be obvious, but people who feel disappointed in or frustrated by their own accomplishments may be reminded of those feelings when they hear about your accomplishments. It's not exactly envy (or jealousy, as the article calls it); it's more inward looking and doesn't really have much to do with you. In that case, silence is probably a pretty good outcome.
A quick skim of the article suggests it's assuming everyone involved is your peer. If you're talking to people with a generally similar rank in a particular domain, it doesn't seem like terrible advice, assuming they're otherwise friends or colleagues worth keeping. If you're telling someone about something that they have no realistic hope of matching, the advice in the article is unlikely to help and might hurt. e.g., telling someone who can't find a steady job that you became a fellow of a professional society and hoping for enthusiasm may be expecting more than most people are capable of. Best wishes.
On preview, EmpressCallipygos' point is worth considering. When I told my father that I had miraculously gotten the very unlikely dream job that I'd been working toward since high-school, his immediate response was a question about vacation benefits. He lives in a different world. I've learned to expect it.
posted by eotvos at 2:55 PM on July 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
A quick skim of the article suggests it's assuming everyone involved is your peer. If you're talking to people with a generally similar rank in a particular domain, it doesn't seem like terrible advice, assuming they're otherwise friends or colleagues worth keeping. If you're telling someone about something that they have no realistic hope of matching, the advice in the article is unlikely to help and might hurt. e.g., telling someone who can't find a steady job that you became a fellow of a professional society and hoping for enthusiasm may be expecting more than most people are capable of. Best wishes.
On preview, EmpressCallipygos' point is worth considering. When I told my father that I had miraculously gotten the very unlikely dream job that I'd been working toward since high-school, his immediate response was a question about vacation benefits. He lives in a different world. I've learned to expect it.
posted by eotvos at 2:55 PM on July 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would not jump to assuming they are jealous or envious, at least not from the information you've included with your question. If that's not the case, the suggestions in the article aren't going to do you any good.
especially geeked out over something I'm proud of
If we are talking about things where someone who isn't at least a little bit geeky about the general topic won't really comprehend what you did without an hour-long introduction to the topic, you are pretty much never going to get genuine praise, praise where the person has actually comprehended that you have done a good job of the thing, unless it's from someone who already knows about it. Your family might say they want to know about it, and you could try to explain, but after 10 or 15 minutes they probably won't be following the discussion.
I don't think you need to worry about that stuff in the article, because it's about managing other people's feelings. It seems like you are looking for some sort of action from them as far as acknowledging. Try saying something like "I am very excited today, I finally completed my 6-month cat scanning project. I wasn't sure I would be successful, because there were so many challenges to overcome, but finally all my hard work has paid off. I'm thrilled to have accomplished such a thing"
Key is YOU need to say you are excited, thrilled, completed something. You might even declare that it calls for some sort of celebration like going out to dinner, or a toast. If you talk about it in an understated sort of way, no one else is going to understand that it's a major accomplishment and you are proud of your work on it.
(Good luck, personally I find my family isn't really interested in acknowledging my accomplishments, even when it is something they are knowledgeable about. It might be that some of these people simply aren't the type.)
posted by yohko at 2:56 PM on July 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
especially geeked out over something I'm proud of
If we are talking about things where someone who isn't at least a little bit geeky about the general topic won't really comprehend what you did without an hour-long introduction to the topic, you are pretty much never going to get genuine praise, praise where the person has actually comprehended that you have done a good job of the thing, unless it's from someone who already knows about it. Your family might say they want to know about it, and you could try to explain, but after 10 or 15 minutes they probably won't be following the discussion.
I don't think you need to worry about that stuff in the article, because it's about managing other people's feelings. It seems like you are looking for some sort of action from them as far as acknowledging. Try saying something like "I am very excited today, I finally completed my 6-month cat scanning project. I wasn't sure I would be successful, because there were so many challenges to overcome, but finally all my hard work has paid off. I'm thrilled to have accomplished such a thing"
Key is YOU need to say you are excited, thrilled, completed something. You might even declare that it calls for some sort of celebration like going out to dinner, or a toast. If you talk about it in an understated sort of way, no one else is going to understand that it's a major accomplishment and you are proud of your work on it.
(Good luck, personally I find my family isn't really interested in acknowledging my accomplishments, even when it is something they are knowledgeable about. It might be that some of these people simply aren't the type.)
posted by yohko at 2:56 PM on July 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: This is why I appreciate MeFi so much. More than once, respondents have helped talk me down off some stupid ledge of mine. It's one of the few places where I get an answer without judgement, with a mix of detachment and empathy, but with lots of calm perspective and insight Thanks.
posted by CollectiveMind at 4:32 PM on July 16, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by CollectiveMind at 4:32 PM on July 16, 2020 [11 favorites]
Congratulations seems like such a variable subject. Like if I know someone has been really worried about something, I might say something positive or congratulatory - "I'm so glad you finally found an apartment! It must be such a relief!"
But just for accomplishey people who accomplished a thing, it wouldn't occur to me that a promotion (for example) or the end of a project, or so on is a thing to congratulate them for? Unless the project was painful and now they're gonna get a break. If they're just moving on to the next project, I might not even recognize that as a milestone.
Unless they said something about being really proud of the work they did and glad their hard work paid off, that kind of thing.
I'm not saying this is right - it's pretty obviously not, when I dig into it - but it's oversight-y, not intentional.
posted by Lady Li at 12:33 AM on July 17, 2020
But just for accomplishey people who accomplished a thing, it wouldn't occur to me that a promotion (for example) or the end of a project, or so on is a thing to congratulate them for? Unless the project was painful and now they're gonna get a break. If they're just moving on to the next project, I might not even recognize that as a milestone.
Unless they said something about being really proud of the work they did and glad their hard work paid off, that kind of thing.
I'm not saying this is right - it's pretty obviously not, when I dig into it - but it's oversight-y, not intentional.
posted by Lady Li at 12:33 AM on July 17, 2020
Words of affirmation is one of the love languages things. Some people like a lot of verbal feedback and approval; other people feel put on the spot or even judged if their accomplishments get praised or discussed. For me recognition feels like a sales pitch where I am the product being marketed. A lot of people prefer collaboration far more than praise, which feels empty. So if your family goes on at length about how Dave is so smart and accomplished and Jaden is so talented and the best ever, but ignores your accomplishments it means a lot more than if they don't praise anyone, but even then they may only be making a special effort to single Dave and Jaden out because they are trying to avoid some kind of negative family dynamic rather than because they actually admire Dave and Jaden. Sometimes they will single out certain people because they have succeeded at accomplishments that matter to the family where other types of accomplishments don't matter. I know families that only ever praise prowess in sports - hockey teams! but don't mention it when someone becomes CEO or has a gallery show. In my family only academic success mattered. You could be as creative as da Vinci or bring in a million dollars in sales and it wasn't interesting enough to be a topic of conversation.
Mainly what I see is two things: In an ego competitive family they do acknowledgment either as a form of competition or to boost team morale, and in a non ego competitive family only people who want recognition themselves or who have been specifically asked to acknowledge accomplishments do it. The person whose love language is acts of service will make sure you have a hot dinner and never think of attending your graduation, and the person whose love language is touch will hug you, wrestle on the lawn and cuddle while watching films, and when asked who you are and what you do completely fail to mention thirty years of dance training and international recognition as an instructor. "Yeah, my brother, he's cool, got the greatest sense of humour and does the best back rubs!"
If you want recognition first figure out if they are capable of it, and if they are, communicate the need. It's not obvious to other people who don't share the need.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:57 AM on July 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Mainly what I see is two things: In an ego competitive family they do acknowledgment either as a form of competition or to boost team morale, and in a non ego competitive family only people who want recognition themselves or who have been specifically asked to acknowledge accomplishments do it. The person whose love language is acts of service will make sure you have a hot dinner and never think of attending your graduation, and the person whose love language is touch will hug you, wrestle on the lawn and cuddle while watching films, and when asked who you are and what you do completely fail to mention thirty years of dance training and international recognition as an instructor. "Yeah, my brother, he's cool, got the greatest sense of humour and does the best back rubs!"
If you want recognition first figure out if they are capable of it, and if they are, communicate the need. It's not obvious to other people who don't share the need.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:57 AM on July 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think it would help to name the work that went into the success. Like, "I must have put 500 hours of work into this project and I had to wait 3 years for it to get aknowledged. I'm so psyched all this hard work finally paid off!"
I think everyone should be able to understand that on an emotional level, way more than just naming what your success was.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:32 PM on July 17, 2020
I think everyone should be able to understand that on an emotional level, way more than just naming what your success was.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:32 PM on July 17, 2020
On thinking more about this, I've also seen praise lavished on someone outside the family and skipped for those in the family.
The person outside the family might be important to make a good impression to help with networking or community connections or something, the person in the family is seen as someone close enough there is already a strong connection. It feels unfair if you are the person not getting praise, but it can helpn to know there is a reason for it.
posted by yohko at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2020
The person outside the family might be important to make a good impression to help with networking or community connections or something, the person in the family is seen as someone close enough there is already a strong connection. It feels unfair if you are the person not getting praise, but it can helpn to know there is a reason for it.
posted by yohko at 7:46 PM on July 19, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
Sometimes the ins-and-outs of the things we do aren't always as apparent to the people who aren't in that field, so they genuinely don't really get the difficulty involved - or even recognize when we've completed something. I'm not talking about something like "yay I just ran a marathon" or "yay my book got published" or "yay I graduated med school" - those are things that everyone sort of gets are hard, and there is a clearly-defined endpoint. Tell your grandma that you graduated med school and she's going to know exactly what you mean.
But if the difficult thing you accomplished was something like "finally figuring out how to build the set for that musical" or "figured out how to compile some code" or "got named community liason in the union" or something a little less clearly-defined, and you told your grandma that you did that, she may not really "get it". Clearly you're happy, so that's good, but she genuinely doesn't understand what that means, maybe, so she's not really sure how to react.
Maybe you've told friends and family that you're working on something, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they understand that work, or even what it is you're doing. So when you're proud of something, and excited about it, they're sorting through "okay, CollectiveMind is excited, so yay, but...I kind of don't get it?"
If you're doing something in a field that the rest of your family isn't in, it could be as simple as that - they don't know the details about why the thing you did is such a big deal because they're laymen. You're happy, so they're happy, though.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:57 PM on July 16, 2020 [10 favorites]