AH HA idea.... but what now...
July 14, 2020 2:25 PM Subscribe
i have a really great idea, that's relevant for today's times.
It's very simple... & although it's not a "new" idea, it's something that can be manufactured in the US & marketed for a specific use that can be applied in the kitchen, bathroom & even BBQ!
Do i need to get a patent or trademark to protect this?
Then, can i start discussing with manufactures about what i need & how cheap they can make it?
Who/where do i go for the individual packaging?
Time is of the essence & I'm confident that this is something there is a significant demand for...
i tried to search for existing patents, and although there are similar products, i dont' know if my product/idea would be allowed for a patent, as it's an existing idea that i would "manufacture" to meet the needed specs .... and with a unique name, (I already know exactly what kind of packaging i'd need)... i think it would virtually sell itself.
I'm limited on funds, but not imagination or effort... so i want to seriously tackle this idea in the right order to:
ensure i'm not wasting my time (if there's already a product on the market specifically designed for this)
ensure i'm not wasting my money (i don't want to put money out & then find out i'm not "allowed" to pursue this due to existing infringement).
simple idea, multiple applications...
i appreciate all advice....
i tried to search for existing patents, and although there are similar products, i dont' know if my product/idea would be allowed for a patent, as it's an existing idea that i would "manufacture" to meet the needed specs .... and with a unique name, (I already know exactly what kind of packaging i'd need)... i think it would virtually sell itself.
I'm limited on funds, but not imagination or effort... so i want to seriously tackle this idea in the right order to:
ensure i'm not wasting my time (if there's already a product on the market specifically designed for this)
ensure i'm not wasting my money (i don't want to put money out & then find out i'm not "allowed" to pursue this due to existing infringement).
simple idea, multiple applications...
i appreciate all advice....
Hey! I'm an ideas man myself! I keep a list of all my ideas, I usually sketch them out. Now and then, I even make a prototype! I even have a few claims to fame.
The first thing I'll say, is consider telling people your idea. Maybe not here, but in real life. Or maybe in non-public online discussions. Everyone else will like your idea less than you will, and nobody will "steal" it. People in the market of stealing ideas usually steal ideas that are a big business already, rather than steal an idea to try to build a business.
Depending on the complexity of the item, it probably either A: Already exists. B: People don't want it, or C: Is too hard/expensive to create than it is to sell. Try to be open to these possibilities! Buy the item that already exists! Build it for yourself! To help with this step, you can post anonomously for how other people solve the problem that your product solves.
With all that said, I highly recommend you build a prototype and show some friends. Start applying for your patent, why not? Consider building or 3d printing examples of the object and using it. I highly recommend looking at ergonomic designers videos (like this one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w08XDXjJhsQ for the actual design elements.
Eventually, if you do try to produce it, there are a lot of options. I recommend the route where you do a kickstarter, and partner with a manufacturer in China to mass produce the item.
The patent... likely doesn't matter much. If you had the patent, and Amazon Basics started producing the product, they would look at your patent and change it just enough to not violate, with 30 lawyers all signing off on it. Realistically, the true IP you own will be the manufacturing process and marketing around the item.
Does that help? Feel free to memail me and I can help you design your prototype, send you similar items, or give you potential watchouts.
posted by bbqturtle at 3:27 PM on July 14, 2020 [19 favorites]
The first thing I'll say, is consider telling people your idea. Maybe not here, but in real life. Or maybe in non-public online discussions. Everyone else will like your idea less than you will, and nobody will "steal" it. People in the market of stealing ideas usually steal ideas that are a big business already, rather than steal an idea to try to build a business.
Depending on the complexity of the item, it probably either A: Already exists. B: People don't want it, or C: Is too hard/expensive to create than it is to sell. Try to be open to these possibilities! Buy the item that already exists! Build it for yourself! To help with this step, you can post anonomously for how other people solve the problem that your product solves.
With all that said, I highly recommend you build a prototype and show some friends. Start applying for your patent, why not? Consider building or 3d printing examples of the object and using it. I highly recommend looking at ergonomic designers videos (like this one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w08XDXjJhsQ for the actual design elements.
Eventually, if you do try to produce it, there are a lot of options. I recommend the route where you do a kickstarter, and partner with a manufacturer in China to mass produce the item.
The patent... likely doesn't matter much. If you had the patent, and Amazon Basics started producing the product, they would look at your patent and change it just enough to not violate, with 30 lawyers all signing off on it. Realistically, the true IP you own will be the manufacturing process and marketing around the item.
Does that help? Feel free to memail me and I can help you design your prototype, send you similar items, or give you potential watchouts.
posted by bbqturtle at 3:27 PM on July 14, 2020 [19 favorites]
I agree that a good next-step is to build a prototype. Then ask friends if they will pay you for a pre-order.
Patents are for novel inventions. If the product already exists (e.g. let's say it's a mousetrap), you can't patent it unless you innovate a core piece of it. If you invent a mousetrap that can self-bait (and this didn't exist before), that could be patentable. But if you take an existing mousetrap and change the color, shape, name, size, weight, materials, etc, that's not patentable. See "Prior Art" for more explanation of this.
The trademark covers the name.
I recommend first making sure that the product will "sell itself" by getting 100 people to give you money for pre-orders. Then you can talk to manufacturers and apply for a trademark for the name.
posted by cheesecake at 3:46 PM on July 14, 2020
Patents are for novel inventions. If the product already exists (e.g. let's say it's a mousetrap), you can't patent it unless you innovate a core piece of it. If you invent a mousetrap that can self-bait (and this didn't exist before), that could be patentable. But if you take an existing mousetrap and change the color, shape, name, size, weight, materials, etc, that's not patentable. See "Prior Art" for more explanation of this.
The trademark covers the name.
I recommend first making sure that the product will "sell itself" by getting 100 people to give you money for pre-orders. Then you can talk to manufacturers and apply for a trademark for the name.
posted by cheesecake at 3:46 PM on July 14, 2020
Possibly a "Design Patent" but unless it's insanely unique a full patent will cost 10's of thousands and if granted in several years will only give the right to spend vast sums in court fees to sue others with deep pockets.
But first get a bound blank book and do drawings and calculations, date every page as you work. That book can be the legal evidence that you were first. Use ink.
Mostly build it and be sure others love it.
posted by sammyo at 4:23 PM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
But first get a bound blank book and do drawings and calculations, date every page as you work. That book can be the legal evidence that you were first. Use ink.
Mostly build it and be sure others love it.
posted by sammyo at 4:23 PM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
One more idea, I successfully marketed some items via the novelty item route. That is, a place that got novelty items made (usually in China) and kept them in their warehouse and then sold them via a network of sales reps.
Think mugs with sayings or other items of the like that could have a unique packaging put on them and then sold and distributed via this company.
One thing I did was visit a patent attorney, I think I paid for 1 hour of his time, to review my contract with said company, and he gave me some good advice. So the advice to see a lawyer is always a good one, if you feel you want to go ahead with this, find a lawyer and visit with them (on the phone during these times, I guess) and see what they have to say before you proceed and dump a bunch of money into this.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:36 PM on July 14, 2020
Think mugs with sayings or other items of the like that could have a unique packaging put on them and then sold and distributed via this company.
One thing I did was visit a patent attorney, I think I paid for 1 hour of his time, to review my contract with said company, and he gave me some good advice. So the advice to see a lawyer is always a good one, if you feel you want to go ahead with this, find a lawyer and visit with them (on the phone during these times, I guess) and see what they have to say before you proceed and dump a bunch of money into this.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:36 PM on July 14, 2020
At the very least a lawyer will be able to tell you how much it would cost. Provisional application is simple and cheap-ish, and gives you a year to decide whether to file for real. They can also talk about the implications of the change from first-to-invent to first-to-file. Do not disclose the invention publicly until you discuss with an attorney.
Design patent just covers appearance. Utility patent includes detailed description of the invention and specific claims for novelty, and is almost certainly the one you would want.
A patent doesn’t give you the right to make something. It gives you the right to keep anyone else from making or selling it (here), for up to 20 years from the first filing date.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:56 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Design patent just covers appearance. Utility patent includes detailed description of the invention and specific claims for novelty, and is almost certainly the one you would want.
A patent doesn’t give you the right to make something. It gives you the right to keep anyone else from making or selling it (here), for up to 20 years from the first filing date.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:56 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
A. Write your idea down in a complete format (a-z of the service, product, ingredient list, etc) then mail yourself a certified copy. That should give you creative copyright.
B. Find one or two other people you can trust to help you find a way to prototype the idea. Money must be made or borrowed then take your prototype to the public and offer samples to get feedback.
C. Tweak your idea to the publics satisfaction then show your audience how it works. You tube videos are a great way to showcase new services and products
D. Take orders and then take those orders multiply them by the number of product packages then the cost to create each package and go to a bank and explain the demand, cost to create and profit margin and ask for a loan to start fulfilling orders. You should probably get a Tax Exempt ID to place orders for supplies and give the bank a scheduled payback date
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 10:07 AM on July 15, 2020
B. Find one or two other people you can trust to help you find a way to prototype the idea. Money must be made or borrowed then take your prototype to the public and offer samples to get feedback.
C. Tweak your idea to the publics satisfaction then show your audience how it works. You tube videos are a great way to showcase new services and products
D. Take orders and then take those orders multiply them by the number of product packages then the cost to create each package and go to a bank and explain the demand, cost to create and profit margin and ask for a loan to start fulfilling orders. You should probably get a Tax Exempt ID to place orders for supplies and give the bank a scheduled payback date
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 10:07 AM on July 15, 2020
Write your idea down in a complete format (a-z of the service, product, ingredient list, etc) then mail yourself a certified copy. That should give you creative copyright.
IANAL. This isn't a thing. Nowadays, copyright attaches from the moment it's created, which allows you to sue someone for actual damages (likely $0 for something that has never been produced).
If you want to be able to sue for punitive damages and all the other expensive stuff, you'll have to properly register your copyright, which will cost money, and which will probably not be accepted for just a list of stuff. You can't copyright recipes or lists, generally.
http://www.simplicitylaw.com/law-articles/how-can-i-protect-my-business-plan-and-business-model-being-copied
posted by rhizome at 2:11 PM on July 15, 2020
IANAL. This isn't a thing. Nowadays, copyright attaches from the moment it's created, which allows you to sue someone for actual damages (likely $0 for something that has never been produced).
If you want to be able to sue for punitive damages and all the other expensive stuff, you'll have to properly register your copyright, which will cost money, and which will probably not be accepted for just a list of stuff. You can't copyright recipes or lists, generally.
http://www.simplicitylaw.com/law-articles/how-can-i-protect-my-business-plan-and-business-model-being-copied
posted by rhizome at 2:11 PM on July 15, 2020
This isn't a thing. Nowadays, copyright attaches from the moment it's created.
Also NAL, but to expand on this, in 2013 US patent law changed substantially such as to make former practices of documenting the date of invention by certified mail, reviewing and signing off on lab notebooks, etc. largely meaningless. The terms to search to understand this change are first to invent (the old system) vs first to file.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:33 PM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also NAL, but to expand on this, in 2013 US patent law changed substantially such as to make former practices of documenting the date of invention by certified mail, reviewing and signing off on lab notebooks, etc. largely meaningless. The terms to search to understand this change are first to invent (the old system) vs first to file.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:33 PM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
"First to file" is for patents. The certified mail trick was axed by the Copyright Act of 1976, taking effect on 1/1/1978, creating the "pre-1978" and "post-1978" copyright rules that copyrighted everything as soon as it was created. Slate has a story from 2014 that put all this in nice human language.
posted by rhizome at 7:55 PM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 7:55 PM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
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