object based image editor?

July 14, 2020 10:41 AM

i'm not even sure how to word this but does Photoshop or some other image editor have a concept of objects? on windows... right now i used a program called bluebeam to approximate what i want but what I am looking for is approximately: a photo editor that lets you work with an object after you create it. so i draw a rectangle then 10 minutes and 50 edits later i realized i want to change the color of that rectangle or resize it. i DONT want to use a stretch tool or recolor, i want to grab little grips on the side of the rectangle and then drag it to the new size or somehow edit its properties (or god forbid change text i added). paint.net and paint 3D both assume once you are done with that thing that is now PERMANENTLY part of that layer and you can never revise the element. the key challenge of why I am doing this in a photo editor is i need a pixel accurate canvas size and objects need to be pixel accurate so bluebeam (or haha using word or ppt which both get me appx there) fail at the pixel accurate canvas size with an image file output...
posted by chasles to Technology (14 answers total)

Photoshop uses layers: you keep that rectangle on its own layer, and you can go back and edit it at any time prior to merging or flattening it. Unless I misunderstand what you're asking.
posted by telophase at 10:45 AM on July 14, 2020

Best answer: You can make that concept work with careful use of layers in photoshop.

Also, every 2D CAD program has the concept of blocks that allows you to chunk together parts to make a whole (you can turn 4 lines into a block to become a unit rectangle, with its own properties that can be changed as a whole)

Inkscape has grouping and ungrouping that, much like blocks in 2D CAD, allows you to move and alter a group of items as a whole.
posted by Dmenet at 10:47 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]

Best answer: This seems like it would be a lot easier to do in a vector-based program (like Illustrator) than an image editor.

You can have Illustrator lock to a pixel grid and then export as JPEG or whatever.
posted by jonathanhughes at 10:49 AM on July 14, 2020 [10 favorites]

Best answer: It sounds like you're looking for a vector, as opposed to raster, editor. Illustrator is Adobe's product, and Inkscape is a freeware example.
posted by sagc at 10:49 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Photoshop uses layers: you keep that rectangle on its own layer, and you can go back and edit it at any time prior to merging or flattening it. Unless I misunderstand what you're asking.

You can make that concept work with careful use of layers in photoshop.

am i editing my triangle or just the layer itself that has the triangle? a basic thing i create might have 40 or 50 graphics on it, like rectangles, text, lines etc....

vector
thanks to both of you jonathanhughes and sagc, that immediately makes sense. i'll go play with inkscape to see if its conceptually what i want.... no more threadsitting....

any and all answers welcome! thanks!!
posted by chasles at 10:53 AM on July 14, 2020

I know nothing, but I do know that you use paths in Photoshop to create and edit vector elements. Glimpse (a renamed version of the open source editor whose name is an ableist slur) also has this.
posted by ambrosen at 10:58 AM on July 14, 2020

Might look at Affinity Designer. It's a vector program with a lot of pixel-level editing and adjusting abilities.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:01 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]

How you use layers depends on your workflow and personality. The only thing stopping you from having one layer per triangle in Photoshop is reaching the maximum number of layers, I suppose.
posted by Dmenet at 11:02 AM on July 14, 2020

You might find some of the 2d/3d hybrid features of software like Blender up to the task, if the learning curve doesn't put you off.
posted by misterdaniel at 11:06 AM on July 14, 2020

In a vector editor, you absolutely can choose an object you've created, change it's color, size or orientation, etc. You can also group multiple objects to treat them as one: move, size, rotate, etc. but keep them together and change all at the same time.

Layers in Photoshop can be useful if you diligently create them and move among them in editing, but are not the same or as fluent as vector-based editing for the kinds of changes you write of.

Note that if you're familiar with using Photoshop or a similar pixel-oriented editor, a vector-based editor such as Illustrator will take some time and experience to get used to. I have/do use both kinds of editor, each best for certain kinds of design, neither one a substitute for the other.
posted by tmdonahue at 11:48 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

Oh, and as to pixel accurate output: I'm not sure what your referring to, but vector drawings are not pixel based. They are mathematical descriptions of shapes, bezier curves if you will, that can be printed at any size with accurate reproduction at that size. So you can print a vector drawing on your ink-jet printer at 8 1/2 x 11, or a large-format inkjet printer at 24 x 36, the size of a billboard if you wish, with the best crispness and completeness that printer can produce. Enlarging vector drawings is not like enlarging pixel drawings. Vector drawings do not degrade as they are printed at different sizes.
posted by tmdonahue at 12:00 PM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Photoshop has some vector tools that can keep shapes "live" for editing. They're a bit clunky compared to Illustrator. I don't use them much, but iirc you edit size in the Properties panel, and for position you can use the Properties panel or just drag them around. You can alse edit stroke and fill.

If your work is mostly vector graphics sitting on top of a raster image it might be more convenient for you to use something like Illustrator. If you do a lot of raster work with just a few vector elements, you can make Photoshop work for that. Pen Tool, Shape Tools, and Paths are the terms to search for usage details/tutorials etc.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 1:44 PM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]

Seconding Affinity Designer for vector graphics combined with good raster/pixel tool support if you want to give an Adobe alternative a try. They have a free trial so you can see whether it'll work for you before committing.
posted by Aleyn at 4:40 PM on July 14, 2020

Back in the mid nineties, I worked on a program that did exactly that. The company was called TrueSpectra and the product was PhotoGraphics (Pro). Your project consisted of a set of objects, each of contained a tool (i.e. the effect it applied) and the bounding region. These could be combined in pretty much any combination. One of the tools was an image file; several formats were supported.

The whole thing would be rendered on the fly as you made adjustments.

Regions could be all kinds of shapes (squares, ovals, complex hand-edited regions) and tools could be a variety off effects (pictures, solid colours, gradients, various transparent effects applied to effects below).

Note that the first release was for OS/2, although I believe there was a Windows version as well. (It was in the top ten best-selling OS/2 programs of 1996, so obviously the company is long gone. Apparently, it's all owned by Adobe now.)

You can find the archived company website here. I have a copy of PhotoGraphics and OS/2 4.0 but I have no idea if there's a way to run it these days.

FWIW, the closest I've gotten to using PG is Glimpse (aka the GIMP) and multiple layers with various transparency tricks. It's not the same but I've managed to get it to do the things I need.
posted by suetanvil at 10:23 PM on July 15, 2020