LGBT representation
July 8, 2020 12:02 PM Subscribe
What makes a character be good or bad LGBT representation? I'm hoping for books (or youtube videos?) about the subject but personal opinions are welcome.
There's a (bad) trope that gay characters get killed much more frequently in TV/movies.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:17 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by hungrytiger at 12:17 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
What makes good representation is that the character is not the only LGBorT character in a given work, and that when taken in context of other related works, that they do not fit into a narrowly constrained character arc, personality type, or purpose within the narrative that is overly portrayed in those related media.
In other words, the problem is generally not that the specific lesbian character is a psycho killer, but that the lesbians in movies are so often psycho killers (or one of a few other tropes).
The solution to shitty portrayals is usually just more portrayals - as long as they get to have diverse motivations, backgrounds, interests, etc.
Also, if we're only here to advance the straight lead, that's bad.
posted by latkes at 12:27 PM on July 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
In other words, the problem is generally not that the specific lesbian character is a psycho killer, but that the lesbians in movies are so often psycho killers (or one of a few other tropes).
The solution to shitty portrayals is usually just more portrayals - as long as they get to have diverse motivations, backgrounds, interests, etc.
Also, if we're only here to advance the straight lead, that's bad.
posted by latkes at 12:27 PM on July 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Seconding watch Disclosure - and also it's antecedent and spiritual parent Celluloid Closet.
posted by latkes at 12:29 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 12:29 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Thirding Disclosure, it was absolutely amazing. Vito Russo wrote The Celluloid Closet, on which the film is based, if you want a textual source.
Also, Bitch Magazine exists to examine pop culture through a critical lens that often (nearly always?) addresses queer issues. Many of their articles are free online, but a subscription is pretty inexpensive!
posted by kalimac at 12:54 PM on July 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, Bitch Magazine exists to examine pop culture through a critical lens that often (nearly always?) addresses queer issues. Many of their articles are free online, but a subscription is pretty inexpensive!
posted by kalimac at 12:54 PM on July 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Two essay collections I relied on for some mid-90s queer theory/media criticism papers (and which contain essays I still sometimes go back to) are:
Queer Looks: Perspectives on Lesbian and Gay Film and Video, and
Out in Culture: Gay, Lesbian and Queer Essays on Popular Culture:
Out in Culture presents such popular writers as B. Ruby Rich, Essex Hemphill, and Michael Musto as well as influential critics such as Richard Dyer, Chris Straayer, and Julia Lesage, on topics ranging from the queer careers of Agnes Moorehead and Pee Wee Herman to the cultural politics of gay drag, lesbian style, the visualization of AIDS, and the black snap! queen experience. Of particular interest are two "dossiers," the first linking essays on the queer content of Alfred Hitchcock’s films, and the second on the production and reception of popular music within gay and lesbian communities. The volume concludes with an extensive bibliography—the most comprehensive currently available—of sources in gay, lesbian, and queer media criticism.
Another vote here for The Celluloid Closet, both the book and the documentary.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:52 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Queer Looks: Perspectives on Lesbian and Gay Film and Video, and
Out in Culture: Gay, Lesbian and Queer Essays on Popular Culture:
Out in Culture presents such popular writers as B. Ruby Rich, Essex Hemphill, and Michael Musto as well as influential critics such as Richard Dyer, Chris Straayer, and Julia Lesage, on topics ranging from the queer careers of Agnes Moorehead and Pee Wee Herman to the cultural politics of gay drag, lesbian style, the visualization of AIDS, and the black snap! queen experience. Of particular interest are two "dossiers," the first linking essays on the queer content of Alfred Hitchcock’s films, and the second on the production and reception of popular music within gay and lesbian communities. The volume concludes with an extensive bibliography—the most comprehensive currently available—of sources in gay, lesbian, and queer media criticism.
Another vote here for The Celluloid Closet, both the book and the documentary.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:52 PM on July 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would definitely look at essays, etc., about Schitt's Creek. The show (which is awesome!) has been praised a lot for this, e.g., Dan Levy won GLAAD's Davidson/Valentini Award for his work on it.
posted by trillian at 3:59 PM on July 8, 2020
posted by trillian at 3:59 PM on July 8, 2020
Matt Baume's Culture Cruise is a (currently) 26 video playlist from Matt's YouTube channel that looks at LGBTQ+ milestones in entertainment that changed the world, like The Golden Girls' Gay Journey - From Coming out to Marriage Equality
posted by filthy light thief at 4:04 PM on July 8, 2020
posted by filthy light thief at 4:04 PM on July 8, 2020
One thing I really appreciate is when TV shows/movies/etc, show LGBTQ in community with other LGTBQ people. So often there's one queer person and they don't seem to know any other queer people, except maybe the people they date, which is just not realistic.
Another thing I'd say is that it's ok to make them, well, queer. I feel like there's often a desire to push back on stereotypes by having queer people be "normal" (ie, heteronormative). It's really great to see characters who are visibly queer AND that's not their sole personality trait.
Watch/read content by queer people. Work in Progress, Vida (both TV shows), and the book Paul Takes the Form of a Mortal Girl are great examples of art that does a good job of portraying what's unique about queer people and culture while also showing characters as fully-formed humans.
posted by lunasol at 5:40 PM on July 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Another thing I'd say is that it's ok to make them, well, queer. I feel like there's often a desire to push back on stereotypes by having queer people be "normal" (ie, heteronormative). It's really great to see characters who are visibly queer AND that's not their sole personality trait.
Watch/read content by queer people. Work in Progress, Vida (both TV shows), and the book Paul Takes the Form of a Mortal Girl are great examples of art that does a good job of portraying what's unique about queer people and culture while also showing characters as fully-formed humans.
posted by lunasol at 5:40 PM on July 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's really great to see characters who are visibly queer AND that's not their sole personality trait.
this a thousand times. it is infuriating to me when i see/read gay characters and all we know about them is they're gay. that is but one aspect of a person.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:47 AM on July 9, 2020
this a thousand times. it is infuriating to me when i see/read gay characters and all we know about them is they're gay. that is but one aspect of a person.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 7:47 AM on July 9, 2020
I think good portrayal is when we get to be full people, who have lives and interests and flaws.
I think an easy example of a bad portrayal is when there's very little information about the character beyond LGBT identity and we die so a cis straight person can have feelings.
Some shows I have felt had good portrayals:
Sense8
She-Ra
Umbrella Academy
the Greg Berlanti CW shows - Batwoman, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, The Flash, Black Lightning
Every queer person besides me also says Steven Universe, which - not arguing against it, I just am the one queer person who doesn't like this show
Star Trek Discovery
media made by and for queer audiences - think Drag Race (yes, it's problematic, but it's one of the only shows I've ever seen where everyone is LGBT and while it's toned down for tv, it's not sanitized), John Waters, Hannah Gadsby's comedy.
Bad portrayals:
any Joss Whedon show
Chasing Amy
there are a lot but I can't name many because I usually just stop watching.
I will also note that I have never, ever seen a sympathetic portrayal of an anti-assimilationist queer person in mainstream media. Everyone wants to get married and "fit in" and be just like cis straight people and no one ever is allowed to criticize that as a goal or ask why we should want to be like cis straight people, so there are always questions about what about us is permitted in public. There's also a recent trend to have shows with LGBT characters who are doing their thing but just never, ever talk about their identity, their coming out process, or their relationships to queer communities - there may be some portrayal, but no one ever says "yeah I'm bi, for me that means ____" - these can still be positive portrayals, like Klaus in Umbrella Academy, but they're necessarily limited and it's a kind of sanitization, because in fact we talk about that shit all the time and it's being avoided to make cis straight viewers comfortable.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:29 AM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think an easy example of a bad portrayal is when there's very little information about the character beyond LGBT identity and we die so a cis straight person can have feelings.
Some shows I have felt had good portrayals:
Sense8
She-Ra
Umbrella Academy
the Greg Berlanti CW shows - Batwoman, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, The Flash, Black Lightning
Every queer person besides me also says Steven Universe, which - not arguing against it, I just am the one queer person who doesn't like this show
Star Trek Discovery
media made by and for queer audiences - think Drag Race (yes, it's problematic, but it's one of the only shows I've ever seen where everyone is LGBT and while it's toned down for tv, it's not sanitized), John Waters, Hannah Gadsby's comedy.
Bad portrayals:
any Joss Whedon show
Chasing Amy
there are a lot but I can't name many because I usually just stop watching.
I will also note that I have never, ever seen a sympathetic portrayal of an anti-assimilationist queer person in mainstream media. Everyone wants to get married and "fit in" and be just like cis straight people and no one ever is allowed to criticize that as a goal or ask why we should want to be like cis straight people, so there are always questions about what about us is permitted in public. There's also a recent trend to have shows with LGBT characters who are doing their thing but just never, ever talk about their identity, their coming out process, or their relationships to queer communities - there may be some portrayal, but no one ever says "yeah I'm bi, for me that means ____" - these can still be positive portrayals, like Klaus in Umbrella Academy, but they're necessarily limited and it's a kind of sanitization, because in fact we talk about that shit all the time and it's being avoided to make cis straight viewers comfortable.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:29 AM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Um, followup note about Star Trek Discovery - it's still problematic because of their treatment of the gay couple and that they killed one of them for a while, but they're also treated like full and complex (as complex as Star Trek gets) characters, and Philippa Giorgio as an extremely sexual bi woman is amazing, even beyond my crush on Michelle Yeoh. Mods delete if too much spoiler.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:17 AM on July 10, 2020
posted by bile and syntax at 7:17 AM on July 10, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
TV tropes for LGBTQ2IA+ people are going to inform discussions of representation a lot.
posted by momus_window at 12:16 PM on July 8, 2020