Help me weigh the risks of getting a hug
July 7, 2020 12:20 PM Subscribe
I live alone in New Jersey. I have not gotten a hug or been touched in a friendly way since early March. This is negatively affecting my mental health. I made plans to semi-combine households with a friend who also lives alone and has also been isolated because she works in a healthcare field, based on certain conditions that have now changed (information on both inside). Help me think through how much more of a risk I would be taking based on these changes.
The initial conditions and precautions around the visit were as follows: she goes in to work to get tested every week on Monday and then works from home the rest of the day on Monday. On Tuesday she sees at most a couple of patients in person, and works the rest of the day at home. On Tuesday she also gets her test results, and given a negative test result, I would visit for dinner every Tuesday night, therefore ensuring that I was visiting on the day there was the most certainty she didn't have COVID. Besides her exposure at work we both have been following similar levels of precaution: always wearing masks in public, grocery shopping carefully and as little as possible, and socializing either online or socially distanced and outside. Visiting this friend would put me at more risk for COVID than not, but I felt that it was a worthwhile tradeoff to have regular physical human contact.
However, now her work is encountering delays in processing tests such that it's not likely she'll get her test results from Monday's test until Wednesday of that week. Wednesdays at her work looks much like Tuesdays, so she could potentially see a couple more patients in person.
We could just swap out our plans and meet up on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays, but this is making me feel distinctly less safe about the whole plan, even though it's only one extra day of possible exposure for her.
Help me think through how much more of a risk it would be for me to go ahead with this plan, with the only detail changed being that we would visit on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays.
The initial conditions and precautions around the visit were as follows: she goes in to work to get tested every week on Monday and then works from home the rest of the day on Monday. On Tuesday she sees at most a couple of patients in person, and works the rest of the day at home. On Tuesday she also gets her test results, and given a negative test result, I would visit for dinner every Tuesday night, therefore ensuring that I was visiting on the day there was the most certainty she didn't have COVID. Besides her exposure at work we both have been following similar levels of precaution: always wearing masks in public, grocery shopping carefully and as little as possible, and socializing either online or socially distanced and outside. Visiting this friend would put me at more risk for COVID than not, but I felt that it was a worthwhile tradeoff to have regular physical human contact.
However, now her work is encountering delays in processing tests such that it's not likely she'll get her test results from Monday's test until Wednesday of that week. Wednesdays at her work looks much like Tuesdays, so she could potentially see a couple more patients in person.
We could just swap out our plans and meet up on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays, but this is making me feel distinctly less safe about the whole plan, even though it's only one extra day of possible exposure for her.
Help me think through how much more of a risk it would be for me to go ahead with this plan, with the only detail changed being that we would visit on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays.
If you see her on Tuesday, the risk is extremely low since you know (barring false negative) that she didn't have it on Monday. If she does have it, she must have caught it on Tuesday and by Tuesday night, the viral load will still be so low that it wouldn't be detected by a test and presumably low enough that you wouldn't be infected.
According to this article from Harvard Med, most people get symptoms 4-5 days after exposure (range 3-14 days) and most people seem to be contagious starting 48-72 hours before symptoms. So, if she exposed Tuesday morning and gets infected from the exposure, then I think there is a real risk that she might be able to pass on by Wednesday night.
So, I think the risk of Wednesday is higher than Tuesday. Depending on your own risk tolerance, you can do further assessment based on the probability that might catch COVID at work based on the work that she does, the exposure to patients, the level of PPE and other cautions used at the work place.
posted by metahawk at 12:47 PM on July 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
According to this article from Harvard Med, most people get symptoms 4-5 days after exposure (range 3-14 days) and most people seem to be contagious starting 48-72 hours before symptoms. So, if she exposed Tuesday morning and gets infected from the exposure, then I think there is a real risk that she might be able to pass on by Wednesday night.
So, I think the risk of Wednesday is higher than Tuesday. Depending on your own risk tolerance, you can do further assessment based on the probability that might catch COVID at work based on the work that she does, the exposure to patients, the level of PPE and other cautions used at the work place.
posted by metahawk at 12:47 PM on July 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
I know what that feels like. It's HARD! How would you feel about wearing a mask and each facing in opposite directions? I would also have dinner outside, if possible, or ensure that there is good ventilation.
posted by kate4914 at 1:03 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kate4914 at 1:03 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not only are you assuming that you can make this determination based on a perfect test (no false negatives), you'd also have to assume that she was not exposed between the test and the results. I don't know if those factors are too much risk for you -- only you can know that.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:15 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:15 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
You can't guarantee ever completely your safety, but it matters that you haven't hugged anyone since March. It sounds like you've got a setup that's as safe as you can make it. Go hug your friend.
posted by bile and syntax at 1:43 PM on July 7, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 1:43 PM on July 7, 2020 [15 favorites]
I don't know if this helps- we saw my MIL for the first time since Christmas this past Saturday. She has cancer, she'd lost too much weight, I'm worried about her. While we socially distanced as much as we could while visiting, I just couldn't leave without giving her a hug, so we put on masks and I hugged her from the side, so my head was on her back, pointing out.
I have no idea if it was safer or not, but it felt safer with our faces covered, and not near each other like a regular hug.
posted by Ftsqg at 2:07 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have no idea if it was safer or not, but it felt safer with our faces covered, and not near each other like a regular hug.
posted by Ftsqg at 2:07 PM on July 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
The risk is very low. The risk of adverse physical and emotional side effects from not getting the human touch we all need is much higher.
Hug your friend.
Then wash your hands, don’t touch your face, and shower and change your clothes when you get home.
posted by Amy93 at 5:02 PM on July 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Hug your friend.
Then wash your hands, don’t touch your face, and shower and change your clothes when you get home.
posted by Amy93 at 5:02 PM on July 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Assuming she can get tested any day, can she get tested on Friday and you see her Monday? Then you're back to just one workday of exposure.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:04 PM on July 7, 2020
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:04 PM on July 7, 2020
I have to agree with the people (especially PMdixon) who mention that getting regular testing is unreliable, because if major league baseball, with all the money, can't get regular tests done on time.... You may not be able to count on or rely on the testing as a surety under current circumstances.
If you are sure you want to do this with this specific person (as opposed to trying to find someone else that might have less potential danger for hugs, but I am guessing this person is your only/best option), you may have to reason out whether or not you're okay with this risk level if you can't count on testing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 PM on July 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
If you are sure you want to do this with this specific person (as opposed to trying to find someone else that might have less potential danger for hugs, but I am guessing this person is your only/best option), you may have to reason out whether or not you're okay with this risk level if you can't count on testing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 PM on July 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Personally I would be completely comfortable with this. Even more so if eating outside was possible, but either way, the benefits of normal human contact and touch are huge.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:20 PM on July 7, 2020
posted by Dip Flash at 9:20 PM on July 7, 2020
I work in a healthcare enviroment but no one is regularly testing me (siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh) I can assure you that there are protocols in place about seeing patients but of course this isn't foolproof. The fact she is getting tested each week is great!
I have a friend who really doesn't have much support in the area and I went over what I do to protect myself when working with people stuff with her, and she chooses to come visit (even though I'm not being tested at all). She's pretty much the only person outside my family who I see outside of work. She's in her 30s and very healthy. So your not the only person whose made this calculus in the world.
Worst case senario is that she caught it on friday, gets tested on Monday and is still reading negative but in actuality has a rising viral load that would be caught in a couple days like Tuesday or Wed. That would be where you might have danger. But, that's a theoretical, and would be a pretty unlucky perfect storm of events imho. I'd be willing to risk it. I'm aIso willing to work with the general public, and in building areas that treat covid so my risk aversion is not the same as everyone else's, so feel free to take what i have to say with a grain of salt.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:49 PM on July 7, 2020
I have a friend who really doesn't have much support in the area and I went over what I do to protect myself when working with people stuff with her, and she chooses to come visit (even though I'm not being tested at all). She's pretty much the only person outside my family who I see outside of work. She's in her 30s and very healthy. So your not the only person whose made this calculus in the world.
Worst case senario is that she caught it on friday, gets tested on Monday and is still reading negative but in actuality has a rising viral load that would be caught in a couple days like Tuesday or Wed. That would be where you might have danger. But, that's a theoretical, and would be a pretty unlucky perfect storm of events imho. I'd be willing to risk it. I'm aIso willing to work with the general public, and in building areas that treat covid so my risk aversion is not the same as everyone else's, so feel free to take what i have to say with a grain of salt.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:49 PM on July 7, 2020
I would also suggest you read the NYT article about how to hug during a pandemic. It may make you feel more in control of the safety of the hug itself.
posted by rabidsegue at 7:02 AM on July 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by rabidsegue at 7:02 AM on July 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
According to both this Washington Post article and that doctor guy who consults on "Stars In The House" (note: he's on from about 43-53 minutes), you can't rely on anyone's test results to prove they are in the clear and can see anyone safely. Just because she's in the clear on Tuesday doesn't mean that virus isn't lurking inside her to come out in a few days. Doctors are specifically saying you can't use that information to make life decisions. Only a 14 day quarantine "clears" anyone.
Sorry.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 AM on July 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sorry.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 AM on July 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I have been approaching my reasoning from the other end - if a particular behavior were to result in my getting or transmitting covid, am I more or less willing to live with that world than the one in which I did not engage in that behavior? You seem to be evaluating risk such that this plan is only OK with you to the extent it presents a negligible risk of transmission - if that's the level of caution you're working from I would probably at least step back from making long term plans about ongoing interactions with others until it's more clear how the policy response is going to be. I might suggest reasoning in terms of ad hoc week by week arrangements for now, based on what's right in front of you, rather than leaning on the assumption that weekly patterns will be maintainable wrt testing.
posted by PMdixon at 12:44 PM on July 7, 2020 [3 favorites]