PhD: moving from wait-list to acceptance

March 17, 2006 8:34 PM

I've been wait-listed for a PhD program, how can I increase my odds of getting in?

About a month ago, I received my first acceptance to a mid-tier school for a PhD in English. Today I found out I'm on a waiting list for a top-tier school. If accepted, the top-tier will offer the same full-funding package as the mid-tier. According to their email, I just have to wait for the first-offered students to reject and then hope that there's an opening in Renaissance lit.

But I'm not too happy with just sitting on my hands and waiting. I feel qualified and am fully prepared to succeed. Due to my family situation, I will be through the program and into the world of professional academia quickly. I think that this top-tier school would be well rewarded by having me in their program.

So how do I go about convincing them to open up a spot for me? Are their things to avoid? Is it best to just wait and have faith?

posted by terceiro to Education (25 answers total)

I will be through the program and into the world of professional academia quickly.

Ah, to be young and naïve...

Seriously, I doubt that there's much you can do other than wait and have faith. Having sat on a graduate admissions committee myself, I can tell you that a hell of a lot of deliberation goes into the people who are close to the cut-off. Unless there's some substantive aspect to your background that was missing from your application (not "underemphasized", but out-and-out missing), you can be sure that they have fully considered the potential contributions you could make to their program.
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:03 PM on March 17, 2006

"Are their things to avoid?"

Yeah, blatant grammatical errors. Seriously... bad grammar gives a bad impression.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:44 PM on March 17, 2006

i don't think that there's much you can do at this point, since i highly doubt that the school will rescind an offer to someone else in order to extend it to you. However, if you wanted to do something, you might like to get in contact with your prospective supervisors at the top-tier school. If someone is willing to meet you, then they can probably explain the admissions situation to you, as well as offer suggestions as to what you can do to advance your situation/start your studies. It also gives you an opportunity to leave a good impression of yourself. Of course, this may lead to nothing if you don't get offered a position.

terceiro: I feel qualified and am fully prepared to succeed. ... Are their things to avoid?

sounding arrogant?
posted by nml at 10:20 PM on March 17, 2006

What Johnny Assay's first line said.

It's a little too late now; it's just a waiting game.

Aside from figuring out who the acceptees were and either assainating them or impregnating their significant others, there's not much you can do.

A strategy that could have been employed would be to endear yourself to a particular principle investigator/professor/supervisor; if someone in faculty wants you in their lab/employ - you're pretty much in (to the department and school).

Besides, it's not what school you went to but how many papers you've published and in what journals. With ... English... I'd imagine that there's an equivalent.

What do you want to do with your English PhD? Does being at a "good" school matter (as a matter of politics as opposed to merit)?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 10:47 PM on March 17, 2006

On reading nml's catching your wording...

Due to my family situation

So your family isn't going to give you money if you end up at a less-than (what they think) stellar school?

Or are they not going to endow a new library/hall/performance centre if you don't get accepted into the program?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 10:53 PM on March 17, 2006

Congratulations! This does not answer your question (I believe your only option is to wait at this point) -- but I would just like to say that what school you go to doesn't matter so much. I mean Dubya went to what, Yale? Harvard? What a joke.

By contrast, I once met a man who was an extremely high calibre individual and had accomplished way too many things to list-- he was one of the most respectable people I've ever met. Quiet and reserved, but strong.. humble, spoke only when needed and his words had impact. One of his various accomplishments was graduating from a culinary school and becoming a chef. He made food people raved about, but he described the school he went to as mediocre (not to complain) but said that the school you attend doesn't matter as much as the education you personally seek to receive.

Another example is of a former coworker of mine and myself (both of us LMTs). I went to a more top-rated school, paid about $6k for 624 hours of training. He paid about $2k for 850 hours of training, and I think he is an excellent massage therapist! If you're comparing output, there's not a substantial difference. As an old A&P professor of mine once said, "C = M.D."

I say this in case you do not end up getting accepted into the top-tier school. Sure, it'd be nice to have that tied up to your ego I suppose. Personally, I wouldn't be bummed out at all if I ended up going to the middle tier. I mean what are your goals? Do you want to be famous or write a book? If I am choosing a book written by a professional, I definitely don't base it on what school they went to.
posted by mojabunni at 12:15 AM on March 18, 2006

Have to disagree with mojabunni - where you go to school does matter in academe, much more so than the corporate world. The job market for English PhDs is terrible, so any leg up (prestige degree, connections) will be useful. Not to say that the writer won't get a job with a PhD from the mid-tier school, but it will likely be a mid-tier job.

Having said that, I agree with the others who say there's nothing you can do to hasten your admittance to the top-tier school. The appearance of overeagerness, brown-nosing or persistence to the point of being annoying can definitely backfire, so sit on your hands and wait it out.
posted by SashaPT at 4:12 AM on March 18, 2006

I would just like to say that what school you go to doesn't matter so much.

That may be true if you are a massage therapist, but it is not if you want a job in academia.
posted by grouse at 4:34 AM on March 18, 2006

I have no idea about the humanities, but in the sciences, one could always 'update' one's application by submitting reprints of new publications.

And getting a tenure-track position in academia is extremely difficult, no matter what the discipline.
posted by NucleophilicAttack at 4:44 AM on March 18, 2006

what school you go to doesn't matter so much. I mean Dubya went to what, Yale? Harvard? What a joke.

He is the President... (I know, I know.)
posted by thejoshu at 5:06 AM on March 18, 2006

Schools want their accepted students to committ, so the only thing that might possibly help is to make it clear to them that if you're accepted, you'll go. But you'll still have to wait for their first round of accepted students to make their decisions before you hear from them. Grad schools simply can't afford to accept students they can't support, and they'll wait to accept you until the last minute in order to avoid over-enrollment. Don't make yourself a pest, but if there's a professor there who you've been in touch with, make sure s/he knows that if accepted you'll definitely go.

Despite the discussion of the merits of grad school name-recognition in the comments above, there are certain advantages to going to a mid-tier school. I go to a mid-tier school, and I chose to do that so I could work with my advisor, who's pretty much the world's authority in his subfield. I got into several top-tier schools, but I would have had to work on something less interesting to me. Plus, at my mid-tier school, I'm consistently the top of my class and as a result, get glowing recommendations and received a very prestigious national fellowship. It's a near certainty that at any of my top-tier options I would be an unknown student in the bottom quarter of a class of 40, and would not have had any of the opportunities I've had where I am. If you know you'll be successful at the top-tier, go there for sure, but if not, consider that it might be better to be to really stand out at the mid-tier.
posted by dseaton at 5:08 AM on March 18, 2006

dseaton raises some very good points, which I agree with.
posted by grouse at 5:34 AM on March 18, 2006

I'm a graduate student in English at a 'top-tier' school, and we're right now in the midst of our recruiting process. I can say that, from my experience, the 'yield' on a given class hovers somewhere in the 50-80% range. It seems very rare, even at the best schools, for 100% of those who are offered admission to accept. And there is no magic number: my class was 14, the class before me was 10, the class after me was 16; there is leeway.

So: wait it out and see what happens! I don't want to prognosticate, but your chances of getting off the wait-list are higher than they would be if you were on a college wait-list, for example.

Also: I don't think it's a good idea to try to "endear yourself" to anyone. If you don't have a prior relationship with a professor--and who does?--then you're not going to create one in a few phone calls. Perhaps just give a call or email to the department administrator, or to whomever signed your letter, avowing that you are very interested in a place and that you would definitely take it if you were offered it.

Good luck!
posted by josh at 6:28 AM on March 18, 2006

Schools want their accepted students to committ, so the only thing that might possibly help is to make it clear to them that if you're accepted, you'll go.

Amen. This consists of an email saying "I'm still available, and your program is still my top choice." If everyone who was no longer available could be counted on to tell schools that they were out, this wouldn't be as useful a tactic, but they can't be, so it is.

I will be through the program and into the world of professional academia quickly.

Not a realistic view for the vast majority of people getting English PhDs. But good luck to you.
posted by Aknaton at 8:18 AM on March 18, 2006

Response by poster: Just to clarify a couple of points:
1. My "family situation" is a couple of kids and my savings. It's a personal motivation to get out quickly. I'd like to be in well on my way to tenure before I have to spring for my son's braces. And yes, considering how I squandered my time as a single undergrad, this does make a difference.

2. Is it arrogant to feel qualified? To think that I'll succeed? OK, so I'm cocky.

3. Good thing I proofread my application materials more closely than my MeFi question.

I'm grateful for your responses -- especially Josh and dseaton. The uncomfortable part is that I fear that dseaton might be right. The mid-tier school has a stellar (almost perfect) placement record. But they're with mediocre schools. Tenure track is tenure track, but I'd rather be teaching at, say, UVA than Tuscon Tech (not that there's anything wrong with the, I hope, fictional Tuscon Tech. It's just not UVA).
posted by terceiro at 9:44 AM on March 18, 2006

What everyone elses said--let them know they are your top choice, then sit on your hands.

And to answer a question you didn't ask--you know that the job market in English is truly horrible, don't you? That only 40% or so of graduates of top tier Ph.D. programs land tenure track jobs? See Thomas Benton, "So You Want to Go to Grad School?" and "If You Must Go to Grad School ..."
posted by LarryC at 9:49 AM on March 18, 2006

2. Is it arrogant to feel qualified? To think that I'll succeed? OK, so I'm cocky.

You must feel qualified in order to succeed. Likewise, you don't want to appear cavalier or cocky, or you are going to end up a beleaguered and miserable student. But onto the wait-listing...there is absolutely nothing you can do right now to improve your chances. The top tier school isn't interested that you will go if offered, what they want to know is what they can do to get the people they did make an offer to to commit. It sucks, but wait-listed applicants are their safety, and they have enough of them to fill out their pool and have already established preferences among those. You just have to hope that enough first-round people don't accept that your name comes around. It will probably happen for 1 or 2 of the wait-listed so the odds aren't totally against you.

What you should do though is talk to your mid-tier school and be frank (but not totally honest) about your situation. Tell them that you are still waiting to hear back from one school and that you feel its responsible to wait to hear all offers before you commit to one. You probably know this, but you are not obligated until April 15th to commit to a program. Any graduate studies director should recognize and respect that. Though they can't penalize you for waiting until the 15th, in the fairly likely event you end up going there, you want them to see you as a professional who has extended them every courtesy in the decision-making process.

Best of luck in the English racket.
posted by mrmojoflying at 10:33 AM on March 18, 2006

terceiro: I read dseaton's comments with great interest because I recently decided to withdraw from my Ph.D program in social science at a top-tier school, and have wondered if I would have made the same decision if I'd been at a different institution. It was a very difficult decision to make, and it took me a long time to make it (four years in). I cannot say that there is s single reason I decided to leave, but one of them may be of interest to you that hasn't been touched on directly in the conversation so far: there is a tremendous amount of status and prestige associated with a top-tier school, and this impacts on just about every facet of grad school life. I also found the academic advisement process difficult and never really found a mentor that could sustain and support my interest in my chosen field.

These are, of course, personal responses to the situation, and I'm not suggesting that you will encounter the same difficulties simply by accepting an offer at a top-tier school. But for me two things were lacking in my experience that, I think, would have increased my chances of staying in the program: (1) to have found a mentor, and (2) to have sustained and developed my interest in a topic that was personally meaningful to me. I encountered many highly capable scholars, but ultimately I found that the "top-tierness" of the experience got in the way of what I was trying to do, and perhaps contributed to the absence of scholars in my field with topical and professional interests similar to mine.

So for my money, if your chances of finding a good mentor are much better at a mid-tier school than a top-tier one, that should stack the deck in favour of the mid-tier university. At the end of the day what matters is that you finish, and the chances are much, much higher if you have a good advisor.

One final thought: I found Robert Peters' Getting What You Came For, to offer some extremely level-headed advice on such questions, albeit a little late for me since I was already in my program when I heard about it. (Book review.) Good luck with your application.
posted by ads at 10:55 AM on March 18, 2006

Call the department head at the top-tier school. Tell them that you have been accepted to another school but that you would actually prefer to go to the top-tier schoo.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:42 AM on March 18, 2006

I would contact the most senior professor in Renaissance literature at the school where you've been waitlisted. Do a little research on this person, his or her particular interests, publications, current grad students and their fields of study, etc.

Write the professor a letter. The following bits are important:

• No more than one page.
• Make it clear that you know who this person is and that you respect their work. Light flattery is acceptable; don't overdo.
• Make it clear that, if accepted, you would immediately enroll.
• Make a clear statement of what you'd bring to the benefit of their program. Your interests and plans are relevant, but don't neglect your accomplishments and qualifications.
• No more than one page.
• No spelling or grammar errors. If I were sitting on your admissions committee for a top-tier English spot and I saw that their/there mistake - obviously a simple typo - I'd probably shitcan your app right thurr. No offense; this is reality.
• No more than one page.

Good luck!
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:41 PM on March 18, 2006

The mid-tier school has a stellar (almost perfect) placement record. But they're with mediocre schools.

Well, since the vast majority of humanities people at top-tier schools end up working at mediocre schools or not at all, this says something very good about your mid-tier school. You never know, but that the mentoring and job placement support may be much better there. Mentoring depends not on the perception of the status of the institution, but on the individual committment of each faculty member. Departments can get certain cultures of mentoring - one department at my university has imploded in terms of mentoring, others are just fine.

At this point, the best academic decision you can make is not by status of school, but by quality of advisor/department and the fit with your interests. If you don't have a good fit with the high-status department, you won't have the mentoring you need (a friend of mine has had this problem in philosophy). Within my own department, it seems that quality of advising is widely ranging, and has a strong impact on success. The fact that you are a mature student is in your favour, but you choice of mentor is also extremely important for success in your career - we humanties people may not be working directly under our advisors, but their support is still essential.
posted by jb at 7:04 AM on March 19, 2006

That would be "your choice of mentor", sorry. Being a PhD student in hamanities says nothing about ones spelling or grammer abilities,

or really anything other than the fact that you aren't afraid of the thought of reading 8-12 hours a day for the next 5-6 years. :)
posted by jb at 7:15 AM on March 19, 2006

Due to my family situation, I will be through the program and into the world of professional academia quickly.

This may be your intent, but you should realize it's a big black eye to your admissions process. You are asking your prospective mentor to spend a good deal of time and effort - daily contact for two years, let's say - bringing you up to speed on his or her field. Such a mentor expects that, having trained you, you'll then spend some time - some years - doing work together, work that will benefit both of you in advancing your careers.

You may be dead-set on getting out in 3 years, but your mentor's not going to look at that as a very good return on investment, and neither will the school or your department (tuition, federal matching funds for grad student education, etc.)
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:50 AM on March 20, 2006

Hi ikkyu2 - I'm sure your advice is well meant, but unfortunately it is not accurate for the humanities, which is where terceiro is applying. Humanities advisors rarely if ever work collaboratively with their students (it's fairly rare that they work collaboratively at all), so advisors have no interest in people staying longer. (As opposed to archeology, for instance.) Advisors in the humanities also normally don't contribute any graduate support, that's from the graduate school, and they are happy to have people use fewer years.

Getting out quickly is always an advantage in the humanities, and looked on very favourably, provided you get done what you need to (language learning, a good thesis). So many humanists run substantially over the supposed 5 year PhD (poor organisation of project, much less support forming and completing their projects than sciences, less funding - there are a lot of reasons) that finishing early looks very good for your potential carreer.

terceiro - if you are applying to an American graduate school, it is possible (though difficult) to finish in 4-5 years. 5-6 years in English (provided you don't need to go to archives elsewhere) is more common, as is 6-7+ years. But from just my anecdotal experience, I believe being a mature student will help you - you will be more focused and ready to work than many people who have gone from BS right through (like myself - I took a year off before my BA, but I think I needed more off before graduate school as well).
posted by jb at 12:10 PM on March 20, 2006

That was a silly freudian slip- of course I meant a BA, not anything else less savoury.
posted by jb at 12:11 PM on March 20, 2006