Am I being blackballed from my previous organization (employer)?
May 7, 2020 5:00 PM Subscribe
I've been trying in vain to get a new job at my previous organization, with no success, even after three in-person interviews for three separate positions. I'm starting to suspect foul play/being blackballed. Are my concerns unfounded?
As mentioned in a previous Ask, I was laid off, presumably due to "restructuring" (as the lay-off letter said, and it also said that it would not contest unemployment claims).
Of course, this was devastating, and still is, as I was an alumni of this higher education organization and the fact I worked so hard and really gave a lot to the department/office I was in. There was a lot of shuffle in staff over the ~5 years that I worked there, but I stayed through and basically held the fort up. This, of course, may come across as biased and self-praising, but I was told by many members on campus how all of my contributions were appreciated. There was a point at time that I was basically the only staff member handling a large percentage of department duties (which in itself shouldn't have happened, but happened due to a lapse of supervision).
After being laid off, I reached out to my networks, and was told by different people from different departments on campus that they'd help me out. I applied for many positions on campus, and reached out to the head of HR, who then told me that I'd be given priority consideration as a laid-off/displaced employee, out of the 2-3 top ranking interviewees.
I had three in-person interviews. All of them went well, all the interviewers knew me from my previous capacity (I was well-known on campus, due to my previous department being on a higher level), and they seemed impressed. I made sure to use my references wisely.
However, each of them did not go through. Got a generic email saying that they had chosen the top candidate and that they appreciated my time, blah blah blah.
Okay. I understand maybe one or two might have had a preference, but... I matched the qualifications perfectly. I matched the requirements. I sold myself at the interviews.
Here are a few suspicious points:
1) First interview. Position was a good fit for me, matched my experience. The position went to a spouse of someone else who worked on campus in a different department. Of course, no judgment intended, but a quick look at this person's LinkedIn/Facebook indicated no experience related to the position they were hired in.
2 This position was even closer of a fit. Matched the required experience, was a part-time position as a low-hanging fruit, so should have been a shoo-in. Third position was a full-time support position, I matched all the expectations to a T. Why was I not hired?
3) Why did I get to the actual interview stage, all seemed to go well, only to not get the offer? Is it possible I am internally blackballed somehow, but they had to go through with the guise of interviewing me to not make it obvious I was blackballed?
4) It's a possibility (don't know how much to what degree) a reference of mine, who worked in the same former department as me, have been giving low/weak referrals of me. Not trying to sound accusatory in any way, but I don't know. I don't know who I can trust right now.
To be frank, I am angry. I feel demoralized. I feel like I was given a huge slap in the face, and subsequent efforts to get back in the system has failed me. I understand competition, I understand better-qualified people might have landed a position I tried out, I really do. But, come on. I am an alumni of this institution, I gave my heart to my old position despite low pay and low morale and being treated like shit, and I have the needed skills. I am good at what I do, I am reliable and on time. Why cannot they see it? That, or is foul play going on here and I am unwittingly being blackballed?
What should I do? What recourse do I have here?
As mentioned in a previous Ask, I was laid off, presumably due to "restructuring" (as the lay-off letter said, and it also said that it would not contest unemployment claims).
Of course, this was devastating, and still is, as I was an alumni of this higher education organization and the fact I worked so hard and really gave a lot to the department/office I was in. There was a lot of shuffle in staff over the ~5 years that I worked there, but I stayed through and basically held the fort up. This, of course, may come across as biased and self-praising, but I was told by many members on campus how all of my contributions were appreciated. There was a point at time that I was basically the only staff member handling a large percentage of department duties (which in itself shouldn't have happened, but happened due to a lapse of supervision).
After being laid off, I reached out to my networks, and was told by different people from different departments on campus that they'd help me out. I applied for many positions on campus, and reached out to the head of HR, who then told me that I'd be given priority consideration as a laid-off/displaced employee, out of the 2-3 top ranking interviewees.
I had three in-person interviews. All of them went well, all the interviewers knew me from my previous capacity (I was well-known on campus, due to my previous department being on a higher level), and they seemed impressed. I made sure to use my references wisely.
However, each of them did not go through. Got a generic email saying that they had chosen the top candidate and that they appreciated my time, blah blah blah.
Okay. I understand maybe one or two might have had a preference, but... I matched the qualifications perfectly. I matched the requirements. I sold myself at the interviews.
Here are a few suspicious points:
1) First interview. Position was a good fit for me, matched my experience. The position went to a spouse of someone else who worked on campus in a different department. Of course, no judgment intended, but a quick look at this person's LinkedIn/Facebook indicated no experience related to the position they were hired in.
2 This position was even closer of a fit. Matched the required experience, was a part-time position as a low-hanging fruit, so should have been a shoo-in. Third position was a full-time support position, I matched all the expectations to a T. Why was I not hired?
3) Why did I get to the actual interview stage, all seemed to go well, only to not get the offer? Is it possible I am internally blackballed somehow, but they had to go through with the guise of interviewing me to not make it obvious I was blackballed?
4) It's a possibility (don't know how much to what degree) a reference of mine, who worked in the same former department as me, have been giving low/weak referrals of me. Not trying to sound accusatory in any way, but I don't know. I don't know who I can trust right now.
To be frank, I am angry. I feel demoralized. I feel like I was given a huge slap in the face, and subsequent efforts to get back in the system has failed me. I understand competition, I understand better-qualified people might have landed a position I tried out, I really do. But, come on. I am an alumni of this institution, I gave my heart to my old position despite low pay and low morale and being treated like shit, and I have the needed skills. I am good at what I do, I am reliable and on time. Why cannot they see it? That, or is foul play going on here and I am unwittingly being blackballed?
What should I do? What recourse do I have here?
Given that you were suspicious that you were let go in retaliation, why do you want to work with this group again? Maybe it's a big enough organization that you could avoid the people who you fear had it out for you, but that doesn't seem like a pleasant working environment to me.
If you were being blackballed, what benefit would you gain from knowing this? Could be that someone who used to work with you doesn't want to work with you, and unless it's for a discriminatory reason, that's.. honestly a thing that happens sometimes.
Agree with Alensin that you sound like you may be investing a disproportionate amount of energy in this. You sound like you are expecting the world to be fair and just -- you devoted yourself to this low-paid position, so management/the business should feel as if they owe you something. That really isn't how it works in business, even in academia, in my experience.
posted by Alterscape at 5:20 PM on May 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
If you were being blackballed, what benefit would you gain from knowing this? Could be that someone who used to work with you doesn't want to work with you, and unless it's for a discriminatory reason, that's.. honestly a thing that happens sometimes.
Agree with Alensin that you sound like you may be investing a disproportionate amount of energy in this. You sound like you are expecting the world to be fair and just -- you devoted yourself to this low-paid position, so management/the business should feel as if they owe you something. That really isn't how it works in business, even in academia, in my experience.
posted by Alterscape at 5:20 PM on May 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
If they went to the bother of interviewing you three times, they were definitely not screening you out.
One thing to consider: you may be perfectly qualified, but by working there ~5 years before, you might be too senior. If they can fill the role with someone less experienced, they'll save money. It's absolutely not personal — right now the cheapest qualified hire wins.
posted by scruss at 5:28 PM on May 7, 2020 [17 favorites]
One thing to consider: you may be perfectly qualified, but by working there ~5 years before, you might be too senior. If they can fill the role with someone less experienced, they'll save money. It's absolutely not personal — right now the cheapest qualified hire wins.
posted by scruss at 5:28 PM on May 7, 2020 [17 favorites]
This doesn't sound suspicious to me. You being a great candidate who matched the requirements does not preclude there being a slightly better candidate. It's hard to tell from the outside which requirements are the most important and which they're willing to bend on. It's also possible that one of your references is giving a not bad but not stellar reference. If someone I trusted was not enthusiastically in favor - like they weren't "I would re-hire them in an instant if I could" excited, I'd probably pass, cuz what's the point in making that hire? I'm sorry this sucks, but it just sounds normal to me.
posted by brainmouse at 5:37 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by brainmouse at 5:37 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just a couple of quick clarifications here:
-I did not have three interviews with the same group/department. My university is split in many different departments/offices; I did not interact with, or interview with, the department that laid me off.
-I had three interviews total, one for each department (three separate departments that interviewed me), and then was given the rejection letter for each department. Does that make sense?
Am listening and taking in your insights!
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 5:37 PM on May 7, 2020
-I did not have three interviews with the same group/department. My university is split in many different departments/offices; I did not interact with, or interview with, the department that laid me off.
-I had three interviews total, one for each department (three separate departments that interviewed me), and then was given the rejection letter for each department. Does that make sense?
Am listening and taking in your insights!
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 5:37 PM on May 7, 2020
I think it's hard to be in a situation where you feel your investment in and loyalty to an institution is not reciprocated. And naturally you're searching for reasons why. But given all your previous asks and the way you describe the situation "low pay, low morale, treated like shit," I can't see why you would want to give them any more of your time, energy, or skills.
The job market is flooded with people who have been laid off, someone might tick just one more box than you, who knows. After some time you could reach out to your contact in HR and ask if there's any feedback they can share about your previous applications (it's rare, but some people will do that), maybe they can help you identify a specific skill that would make you more competitive.
Hopefully you're not putting all your eggs in this one job basket. There are other institutions of higher learning, other places where your skills might transfer.
posted by brookeb at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
The job market is flooded with people who have been laid off, someone might tick just one more box than you, who knows. After some time you could reach out to your contact in HR and ask if there's any feedback they can share about your previous applications (it's rare, but some people will do that), maybe they can help you identify a specific skill that would make you more competitive.
Hopefully you're not putting all your eggs in this one job basket. There are other institutions of higher learning, other places where your skills might transfer.
posted by brookeb at 5:49 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is this a public university in the US? If so, I suspect that these are not actually open positions. Public universities are required to post jobs publicly (I think for a week), even if the hiring manager already has someone in mind (e.g., an internal promotion). The fact that one of the jobs went to a spouse of an employee makes me think that this might be the case. I’m not sure what rules apply to private schools, or schools in other countries, but the idea is to prevent corruption and cronyism.
Keep in mind that academia, even on the administrative side, is not a perfect meritocracy, and there may be other considerations besides your qualifications. Finding jobs for spouses is a common situation, since a lot of university employees are not local and move there for the job. Finding a job for a spouse can sometimes mean the difference between landing a star candidate and missing out.
Public postings are how I once sent a resume for a Head Coach, Varsity Football job at a Big Ten school. I did not get an interview, alas.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:15 PM on May 7, 2020 [19 favorites]
Keep in mind that academia, even on the administrative side, is not a perfect meritocracy, and there may be other considerations besides your qualifications. Finding jobs for spouses is a common situation, since a lot of university employees are not local and move there for the job. Finding a job for a spouse can sometimes mean the difference between landing a star candidate and missing out.
Public postings are how I once sent a resume for a Head Coach, Varsity Football job at a Big Ten school. I did not get an interview, alas.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:15 PM on May 7, 2020 [19 favorites]
In my experience, in the world of academic staff, if you are the person who is laid off during a restructuring, it means someone is really displeased with you for some reason. Theoretically, departments should be laying off the newest hire, or someone who really is redundant, but in practice there's usually something more about job performance or personality going on.
You don't mention much about your listed references, but it could be someone there, or the search committees could be calling the business manager or supervisor of your old position, even if they aren't on your list and getting negative feedback. In my department, they usually call references after the interview, not before so that would explain the interviews. I'm not sure what you can do in this situation other than make sure your listed references are extremely enthused about you.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 6:19 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
You don't mention much about your listed references, but it could be someone there, or the search committees could be calling the business manager or supervisor of your old position, even if they aren't on your list and getting negative feedback. In my department, they usually call references after the interview, not before so that would explain the interviews. I'm not sure what you can do in this situation other than make sure your listed references are extremely enthused about you.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 6:19 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you find out that you are being blackballed, what difference will that make? You cannot force them to give you a job and your description doesn't suggest illegal discrimination so there's no likelihood of financial compensation.
I think it would be better to let this go in whatever way works for you, because I nursing a grudge against an institution will only hurt you in the long run. There are other places to work that would be keen to have you join them.
posted by plonkee at 6:24 PM on May 7, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think it would be better to let this go in whatever way works for you, because I nursing a grudge against an institution will only hurt you in the long run. There are other places to work that would be keen to have you join them.
posted by plonkee at 6:24 PM on May 7, 2020 [7 favorites]
You don’t have any recourse and you should apply elsewhere. That might sound stark right now, but that’s the best course of action.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:25 PM on May 7, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:25 PM on May 7, 2020 [11 favorites]
In my experience, in the world of academic staff, if you are the person who is laid off during a restructuring, it means someone is really displeased with you for some reason. Theoretically, departments should be laying off the newest hire, or someone who really is redundant, but in practice there's usually something more about job performance or personality going on.
Do we know that OP wasn't the newest hire? Sometimes newest hires get laid off even when they're good employees.
posted by blerghamot at 6:27 PM on May 7, 2020
Do we know that OP wasn't the newest hire? Sometimes newest hires get laid off even when they're good employees.
posted by blerghamot at 6:27 PM on May 7, 2020
Response by poster: Do we know that OP wasn't the newest hire? Sometimes newest hires get laid off even when they're good employees.
I was the longest-tenured employee of ~5 years, there with the original group and as employees of the original group left eventually, including old bosses, I was the "last man standing" (even holding the office afloat pending replacements) until a new leadership team took over our department. 6 months after this, I was laid off (and everyone else was newer than me). I know for a fact I was not the highest-paid member of this group.
That's part of the reason I feel so salty about all this. It just feels so unfair. Yes, I know, life is unfair at times, blah blah blah, but it's just so frustrating. I feel like it's salt being rubbed in the wound when I'm not being offered anything, even after three separate interviews with different departments (and they knew me from my previous capacity, too, presumably in a positive way).
But, yes, maybe it's time I considered moving on from the University. It's very hard, but may be a necessity, to get rid of this toxic angry energy that's lurking within me.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2020
I was the longest-tenured employee of ~5 years, there with the original group and as employees of the original group left eventually, including old bosses, I was the "last man standing" (even holding the office afloat pending replacements) until a new leadership team took over our department. 6 months after this, I was laid off (and everyone else was newer than me). I know for a fact I was not the highest-paid member of this group.
That's part of the reason I feel so salty about all this. It just feels so unfair. Yes, I know, life is unfair at times, blah blah blah, but it's just so frustrating. I feel like it's salt being rubbed in the wound when I'm not being offered anything, even after three separate interviews with different departments (and they knew me from my previous capacity, too, presumably in a positive way).
But, yes, maybe it's time I considered moving on from the University. It's very hard, but may be a necessity, to get rid of this toxic angry energy that's lurking within me.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 6:36 PM on May 7, 2020
If you are getting interviews but not jobs, then it is probably something about the way you are coming across in the interview. My best guess is that you seem bitter or otherwise negative about the last job. You might not realize you are coming across that way. I suggest coming up with some pat, positive, professional stock answers to questions about the last job and practicing them until you can deliver them convincingly. It's probably a good idea to have a trusted friend give you some feedback on your delivery as well. Best of luck, I hope it works out the way that you want it to.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:44 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:44 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
I thought about this askme for an hour, before responding. Where I live, all government positions have to be posted for at least 5 days, as someone else pointed out. Usually, they already have a person in mind, then they post the opening. And hope well qualified people do not notice. People might like you and your work but I expect there is some influence going into hiring decisions.
Me? I just do tech support and ocassional hiring, over the years. There is no "blackballing" in the computer business that I've seen (my career path). What does sometimes happen is I might get a call or email about someone. I do have 30+ years or so in the industry. To give you a real world example, using fake names but what has happened recently. John Smith quit where I worked on January1 of this year. He knows not to use me as a reference. I know back in 2002 he bragged about being a union shop steward and he had just finished his probation period as a new employee. He then announced he would take off every Friday (and did). He once used very racist terms and when I threatened him with HR, he said so what?
Anyways, if ACME company asks me about him, I'll refer them to our HR department. If Joe Brown, whom I've known from 20 years asks me about him, then it'd be an off the record, outside work phone or email, with someone I trust and known for many years. Not blackballing, just back channel stuff. Doesn't sound like it applies to you.
It just sounds to me your problem might be resolved by asking around and getting yourself aligned with whatever the next opening is available. And that's gonna be tough the way the employment market is right now. Best wishes though.
posted by baegucb at 7:12 PM on May 7, 2020
Me? I just do tech support and ocassional hiring, over the years. There is no "blackballing" in the computer business that I've seen (my career path). What does sometimes happen is I might get a call or email about someone. I do have 30+ years or so in the industry. To give you a real world example, using fake names but what has happened recently. John Smith quit where I worked on January1 of this year. He knows not to use me as a reference. I know back in 2002 he bragged about being a union shop steward and he had just finished his probation period as a new employee. He then announced he would take off every Friday (and did). He once used very racist terms and when I threatened him with HR, he said so what?
Anyways, if ACME company asks me about him, I'll refer them to our HR department. If Joe Brown, whom I've known from 20 years asks me about him, then it'd be an off the record, outside work phone or email, with someone I trust and known for many years. Not blackballing, just back channel stuff. Doesn't sound like it applies to you.
It just sounds to me your problem might be resolved by asking around and getting yourself aligned with whatever the next opening is available. And that's gonna be tough the way the employment market is right now. Best wishes though.
posted by baegucb at 7:12 PM on May 7, 2020
How do you speak of your last position? I have had qualified internal candidates speak too frankly about the position they want to leave due to being too familiar, rather than staying present during an interview on what skills were developed, even during profound disappointments.
It sounds like you did tremendous work in your former department and the shift with new leadership and decent staffing wasn’t sustainable. You must show that you are able to move on in a healthy manner and if you are still grieving, that is undetectable by anyone linked to your former/prospective employer. Keep applying. There will be stellar candidates applying alongside you, as well as less expensive candidates. What matters is the position you get hired for, and learning to shift into that role while translating your institutional knowledge without a hint of acrimony.
On preview, practice the interview questions with someone who will give you candid feedback. If you are interviewing elsewhere with similar questions, are you giving consistent responses, not just verbally, but with emotional tenor and nonverbal cues? It may be that being on that campus after being laid off is adding some quiet stress that is getting picked up from the hiring department.
posted by childofTethys at 7:13 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
It sounds like you did tremendous work in your former department and the shift with new leadership and decent staffing wasn’t sustainable. You must show that you are able to move on in a healthy manner and if you are still grieving, that is undetectable by anyone linked to your former/prospective employer. Keep applying. There will be stellar candidates applying alongside you, as well as less expensive candidates. What matters is the position you get hired for, and learning to shift into that role while translating your institutional knowledge without a hint of acrimony.
On preview, practice the interview questions with someone who will give you candid feedback. If you are interviewing elsewhere with similar questions, are you giving consistent responses, not just verbally, but with emotional tenor and nonverbal cues? It may be that being on that campus after being laid off is adding some quiet stress that is getting picked up from the hiring department.
posted by childofTethys at 7:13 PM on May 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
If you had been blackballed you wouldn’t be getting interviews.
I think the idea that you’re priced out of the market due to your seniority is most likely. People interview you because of your experience, but when it comes down to writing offers you probably cost a lot more than someone new to the institution.
It’s great the people you’ve worked with are helping you out, and hopefully you should recognize from this that institutions themselves have no gratitude or loyalty. It’s the individuals that matter.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think the idea that you’re priced out of the market due to your seniority is most likely. People interview you because of your experience, but when it comes down to writing offers you probably cost a lot more than someone new to the institution.
It’s great the people you’ve worked with are helping you out, and hopefully you should recognize from this that institutions themselves have no gratitude or loyalty. It’s the individuals that matter.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think it is either something in your interviews or one of your references not giving good feedback about you. I agree that if you were blacklisted you would not be getting interviews.
posted by pazazygeek at 7:26 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by pazazygeek at 7:26 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was the longest-tenured employee of ~5 years, there with the original group and as employees of the original group left eventually, including old bosses, I was the "last man standing" (even holding the office afloat pending replacements) until a new leadership team took over our department. 6 months after this, I was laid off (and everyone else was newer than me). I know for a fact I was not the highest-paid member of this group.
None of this really bodes well. My advice would be a bit different had you been a short-tenured employee AND you'd gone out on a good note (which, based on your other questions...well, you know). You need to start looking at jobs at other post-secondary institutions. You may even want to make a fresh start in another sector altogether.
Also, I wonder if not using your direct supervisor as a listed reference is creating issues for you. I mean, there's lots of legitimate reasons not to, but when you're applying to the same institution, it raises more red flags.
posted by blerghamot at 7:26 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
None of this really bodes well. My advice would be a bit different had you been a short-tenured employee AND you'd gone out on a good note (which, based on your other questions...well, you know). You need to start looking at jobs at other post-secondary institutions. You may even want to make a fresh start in another sector altogether.
Also, I wonder if not using your direct supervisor as a listed reference is creating issues for you. I mean, there's lots of legitimate reasons not to, but when you're applying to the same institution, it raises more red flags.
posted by blerghamot at 7:26 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think you should look at positions in other higher education institutions.
I don't think you're being intentionally targeted. Of course anything is possible but there are a wide number of reasons why someone in your situation would get an interview but not a position. If you had gotten interviews for 20 interviews at this institution and not gotten hired I would be more inclined to think it was something personal.
At the same time, I can see that it feels awfully personal and I think part of that is that you have invested so much into the organization and another part is that you are among this institutions alumni and feel like they should have a closer connection with you.
Try to remember that it's not personal. It's just business. They paid you for services and you provided those services using your skills. You are a professional who basically kept a department afloat and that's a quality that a ton of other institutions of higher learning want. Maybe look through your references if you think one of them is crummy, but overall try applying to positions elsewhere. Don't let your ex employer take up your brain space or valuable time that could be devoted to finding a place that values what you bring to the table enough to extend an offer.
posted by donut_princess at 7:40 PM on May 7, 2020
I don't think you're being intentionally targeted. Of course anything is possible but there are a wide number of reasons why someone in your situation would get an interview but not a position. If you had gotten interviews for 20 interviews at this institution and not gotten hired I would be more inclined to think it was something personal.
At the same time, I can see that it feels awfully personal and I think part of that is that you have invested so much into the organization and another part is that you are among this institutions alumni and feel like they should have a closer connection with you.
Try to remember that it's not personal. It's just business. They paid you for services and you provided those services using your skills. You are a professional who basically kept a department afloat and that's a quality that a ton of other institutions of higher learning want. Maybe look through your references if you think one of them is crummy, but overall try applying to positions elsewhere. Don't let your ex employer take up your brain space or valuable time that could be devoted to finding a place that values what you bring to the table enough to extend an offer.
posted by donut_princess at 7:40 PM on May 7, 2020
This doesn't sound terribly unusual to me for someone looking to move within a university. I've been involved in university hiring a fair number if times, and it's pretty common to interview three people who all have great qualifications on paper and have been valued employees in other parts of the institution. Who gets the job might come down to one or two answers that are really standouts, or a particularly good or bad reference, or salary history. The other two are left thinking "I was a perfect fit, how could this happen" and the truth is there were five perfect fits and they couldn't all be hired or even interviewed.
Neither of the institutions I've hired at would go through a charade of interviewing someone who'd somehow been blackballed and will definitely not be hired; no one has time for that when there are real candidates to interview.
I *can* imagine a scenario where there's something in your HR record that would give a hiring manager pause, but your application is so strong or the rest of the pool so weak that they might bring you in to see if you would shine in an interview and be able to explain away whatever the concern was. But that would be a pretty rare situation; I can't imagine it happening in rapid succession with several different departments.
I guess anything's possible, but it seems more likely to me that your reference is bad, you're running into that wall of being overqualified/overpaid for the positions, or something's happening in the interviews. It sounds really frustrating for you and I'm sorry it keeps happening. Turning your attention to other possibilities for a while, and dropping the questionable reference, sounds like your best bet to me.
posted by Stacey at 7:42 PM on May 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Neither of the institutions I've hired at would go through a charade of interviewing someone who'd somehow been blackballed and will definitely not be hired; no one has time for that when there are real candidates to interview.
I *can* imagine a scenario where there's something in your HR record that would give a hiring manager pause, but your application is so strong or the rest of the pool so weak that they might bring you in to see if you would shine in an interview and be able to explain away whatever the concern was. But that would be a pretty rare situation; I can't imagine it happening in rapid succession with several different departments.
I guess anything's possible, but it seems more likely to me that your reference is bad, you're running into that wall of being overqualified/overpaid for the positions, or something's happening in the interviews. It sounds really frustrating for you and I'm sorry it keeps happening. Turning your attention to other possibilities for a while, and dropping the questionable reference, sounds like your best bet to me.
posted by Stacey at 7:42 PM on May 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, I hate going back into people's previous questions, but are any of your references involved in this situation? One would hope that everyone is being professional and whatnot, but are you really sure that your former colleague isn't salty about you not signing on as a contractor?
posted by blerghamot at 8:48 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by blerghamot at 8:48 PM on May 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think your theory is viable -- that you might be getting interviews and then getting ruled out when they check references. I think it's also totally possible that some of the energy that's coming through here is coming through in your interview and that they want someone bringing a fresh-start, eager-to-please attitude. (Personally, I'd rather hire the slightly jaded person who can do the job blindfolded, but not everyone feels that way.)
posted by slidell at 1:14 AM on May 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by slidell at 1:14 AM on May 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Another thing to think about is how many people they’re interviewing for these positions. Where I went to grad school, they did in-person interviews for something like 10 people for an open position. Clearly all those people were qualified, but only 1/10 got the job offer. Private industry is so, so different. Where I work, they brought in me and another person for in-person interviews and I received the offer. 1/2 odds after the in person.
So there’s nothing innate in what you’re experiencing that means you’re getting blackballed. You could try reaching out to the interview committee and request feedback. I had a friend who was great at getting interviews but didn’t interview well - it took her something like 20-30 in person interviews (private sector) to get an offer. So there could be something about how you interview that bumps you down as well.
posted by DoubleLune at 2:51 AM on May 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
So there’s nothing innate in what you’re experiencing that means you’re getting blackballed. You could try reaching out to the interview committee and request feedback. I had a friend who was great at getting interviews but didn’t interview well - it took her something like 20-30 in person interviews (private sector) to get an offer. So there could be something about how you interview that bumps you down as well.
posted by DoubleLune at 2:51 AM on May 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
If I was thinking of hiring you at my institution under the circumstances you describe, I’d be checking my informal network to see if anyone knows people in your department that would be willing to speak off the record, especially your current supervisor, who it seems you don’t have listed as a reference. Or I’d be asking around about the supervisor to find out if they are considered a reasonable person or not. The lay-off of a non-junior person leaves some question marks, and if your interview didn’t address them sufficiently I’d be asking around. A lot of universities are very small worlds as you know. In this type of situation I’ve heard some hair-curling stuff.
Also, even with the advantage of being an internal employee, it may be that under the circumstances they are mostly hiring internal people anyways. My university considers spouses as internal hires sometimes, for example.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:18 AM on May 8, 2020
Also, even with the advantage of being an internal employee, it may be that under the circumstances they are mostly hiring internal people anyways. My university considers spouses as internal hires sometimes, for example.
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:18 AM on May 8, 2020
Are my concerns unfounded?
No. All it would take for you to be effectively blackballed is one person in a critical position, or someone who has that person's ear, who doesn't like you for some reason. The person in the critical position may reject your hiring after your interviews, and unless someone tells you about it (which could be risky), you'll never know.
I agree that you should let go of that institution. They may come looking for you later, but even if they do, these experiences are cause for you to be cautious about investing hope and energy in the place.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:39 AM on May 8, 2020
No. All it would take for you to be effectively blackballed is one person in a critical position, or someone who has that person's ear, who doesn't like you for some reason. The person in the critical position may reject your hiring after your interviews, and unless someone tells you about it (which could be risky), you'll never know.
I agree that you should let go of that institution. They may come looking for you later, but even if they do, these experiences are cause for you to be cautious about investing hope and energy in the place.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:39 AM on May 8, 2020
I've been in academia for almost a decade now, and one thing I'm sure of is this, it's full of petty nonsense, politics, and long time grudges that people would rather avoid than deal with head on. I've been fortunate to stay on the good side of things, but... yeah.
Is that the case for you? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know is through those informal networks.
posted by advicepig at 6:27 AM on May 8, 2020
Is that the case for you? Maybe, maybe not. The only way to know is through those informal networks.
posted by advicepig at 6:27 AM on May 8, 2020
I briefly worked in academia and I know that their policy for boomerangs and alumni in non-academic jobs who were not on the "do not hire" list was that if they were even minimally qualified, they were given a courtesy interview even if the other candidates in the pool would have meant the candidate didn't have a chance. You are both.
You want to be part of this institution far more than they want you. It's time to start looking at other employers. Abandon your loyalty, it's not mutual.
posted by juniperesque at 8:29 AM on May 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
You want to be part of this institution far more than they want you. It's time to start looking at other employers. Abandon your loyalty, it's not mutual.
posted by juniperesque at 8:29 AM on May 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the helpful answers. I did ask for interview feedback, but was told it was the University's policy to not offer interview feedback.
As for my feelings, etc., I would like to think during my interviews, I was always positive and cheerful, even if asked about my previous position. I did not say anything negative or showed it through body language/tone, although I cannot see myself, so it's possible it could have leaked subconsciously. I don't know.
But, very good points, indeed. I don't know if the reference I turned down the contracting gig was salty (I did not get a response when I told this person I did not want the contract), so that could be possible, but I don't know. I don't really know who to trust right now. :\
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 9:35 AM on May 8, 2020
As for my feelings, etc., I would like to think during my interviews, I was always positive and cheerful, even if asked about my previous position. I did not say anything negative or showed it through body language/tone, although I cannot see myself, so it's possible it could have leaked subconsciously. I don't know.
But, very good points, indeed. I don't know if the reference I turned down the contracting gig was salty (I did not get a response when I told this person I did not want the contract), so that could be possible, but I don't know. I don't really know who to trust right now. :\
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 9:35 AM on May 8, 2020
I won't address the organizational issue, other than to say that I Nth that you need to move on from this particular organization.
In terms of making yourself more competitive in the larger employment market, you may want to consider finding an objective (read: someone who won't sugar coat it) person to do a mock interview with you and give you feedback. The reality is that most people don't have a very objective view of their own performance, especially in one on one social interactions. There may be something you are doing (or not doing) that is having a negative impact on your interviews. I can tell you as someone that has done thousands of interviews over the years, you can tell the candidates that have done purposeful practice when it comes to interviews, and those who are just winging it. Interviewing is a skill that can be learned, and you need to make sure you can do it. Just thinking that you did well isn't enough - you need an honest, trustworthy, objective observer.
posted by _DB_ at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
In terms of making yourself more competitive in the larger employment market, you may want to consider finding an objective (read: someone who won't sugar coat it) person to do a mock interview with you and give you feedback. The reality is that most people don't have a very objective view of their own performance, especially in one on one social interactions. There may be something you are doing (or not doing) that is having a negative impact on your interviews. I can tell you as someone that has done thousands of interviews over the years, you can tell the candidates that have done purposeful practice when it comes to interviews, and those who are just winging it. Interviewing is a skill that can be learned, and you need to make sure you can do it. Just thinking that you did well isn't enough - you need an honest, trustworthy, objective observer.
posted by _DB_ at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Alensin at 5:14 PM on May 7, 2020 [36 favorites]