Laptop recommendation
April 30, 2020 2:48 PM Subscribe
Do I really need to know what I'm going to use my computer for before I buy it? Why can't I just get the most powerful computer in my budget? Budget and priorities inside:
I've spent my life in the Windows world and I think I'll stick with it for at least this next cycle.
I've never been much of a gamer, but it looks like fun. I'd like to dabble. For reference, I have a few games on my steam wishlist (Kerbal Space Program,Project Eagle: A 3D Interactive Mars Base, Rocket League®, BeamNG.drive, RimWorld, SpaceEngine, Go For Launch: Mercury, Untitled Goose Game, Museum of Symmetry) and I've even bought a few (including Garry's Mod and Universe Sandbox), even though I haven't gotten around to playing them. I can live with foregoing some demanding games. I definitely don't care about playing games at the highest possible resolutions or frame rates. I'd be happy as long as most games are playable at some level.
I'd also like to use my new laptop for informal education. I'd like to take some computer science MOOCs, maybe some statistics, machine learning, etc... and I'd like to be able to install and run related software without worrying about processor speed, drive space or memory space. I wouldn't be doing any developing or serious work, just homework and exploring.
Do I need a "gaming laptop"? Those look expensive and I'm worried that they might not be as durable and reliable.
Laptops aimed at business users seem to have good reputations for durability and reliability. They also advertise special security features, hardware upgrade-ability and certifications from software makers. I don't think I care about any of those other things and I'm worried about how much I'd be paying for them.
I guess "ultra books" are the main category of laptops outside of those two? My concern here is that they wouldn't be powerful enough. On the other hand, maybe I'm over-estimating the demands I'm likely to place on a computer given the purposes that I have.
My last laptop purchase was driven by an over-reaction to the laptop I had before that. The old laptop was big and heavy, so my current laptop is tiny. And under-powered. Smaller is better, but I don't think size is an important factor for me this time around. I think I'll keep my current laptop and it should be serviceable as a travel computer for another couple years at least. I think almost any 14"-16" laptop will be fine. The quality of the display, speakers and keyboard are other things I don't think I'm concerned with. I assume any computer will have adequate wireless features for my needs. I guess it should have a reasonable number of ports (My current one doesn't.), but I can't imagine this driving my selection.
My current computer was also pretty affordable and I got a good deal on top of that. That's another criteria that I'm willing to loosen this time. For reference, I'm looking at some Lenovo models because I read that they're having a big sale that's ending today. The P1 is $1675 , but that comes with a 256GB hard drive. If you tack on a couple hundred to upgrade the hard drive, that's above my budget, but maybe not so far above that I couldn't be convinced. The X1 Carbon Gen 7 is $1397, but again has the 256 GB hard drive. That's definitely a price point that I'm more comfortable with, but upgrading the hard drive makes it something of a stretch, too. So, $1200-$1400, before taxes, including any customizations, but I'm flexible.
So, what computer should I buy? Should I upgrade to a 512GB or 1TB hard drive? Or upgrade any of the other specs? Do I need to pay attention to graphics cards for the level of gaming that I descried?
Thank you
I've spent my life in the Windows world and I think I'll stick with it for at least this next cycle.
I've never been much of a gamer, but it looks like fun. I'd like to dabble. For reference, I have a few games on my steam wishlist (Kerbal Space Program,Project Eagle: A 3D Interactive Mars Base, Rocket League®, BeamNG.drive, RimWorld, SpaceEngine, Go For Launch: Mercury, Untitled Goose Game, Museum of Symmetry) and I've even bought a few (including Garry's Mod and Universe Sandbox), even though I haven't gotten around to playing them. I can live with foregoing some demanding games. I definitely don't care about playing games at the highest possible resolutions or frame rates. I'd be happy as long as most games are playable at some level.
I'd also like to use my new laptop for informal education. I'd like to take some computer science MOOCs, maybe some statistics, machine learning, etc... and I'd like to be able to install and run related software without worrying about processor speed, drive space or memory space. I wouldn't be doing any developing or serious work, just homework and exploring.
Do I need a "gaming laptop"? Those look expensive and I'm worried that they might not be as durable and reliable.
Laptops aimed at business users seem to have good reputations for durability and reliability. They also advertise special security features, hardware upgrade-ability and certifications from software makers. I don't think I care about any of those other things and I'm worried about how much I'd be paying for them.
I guess "ultra books" are the main category of laptops outside of those two? My concern here is that they wouldn't be powerful enough. On the other hand, maybe I'm over-estimating the demands I'm likely to place on a computer given the purposes that I have.
My last laptop purchase was driven by an over-reaction to the laptop I had before that. The old laptop was big and heavy, so my current laptop is tiny. And under-powered. Smaller is better, but I don't think size is an important factor for me this time around. I think I'll keep my current laptop and it should be serviceable as a travel computer for another couple years at least. I think almost any 14"-16" laptop will be fine. The quality of the display, speakers and keyboard are other things I don't think I'm concerned with. I assume any computer will have adequate wireless features for my needs. I guess it should have a reasonable number of ports (My current one doesn't.), but I can't imagine this driving my selection.
My current computer was also pretty affordable and I got a good deal on top of that. That's another criteria that I'm willing to loosen this time. For reference, I'm looking at some Lenovo models because I read that they're having a big sale that's ending today. The P1 is $1675 , but that comes with a 256GB hard drive. If you tack on a couple hundred to upgrade the hard drive, that's above my budget, but maybe not so far above that I couldn't be convinced. The X1 Carbon Gen 7 is $1397, but again has the 256 GB hard drive. That's definitely a price point that I'm more comfortable with, but upgrading the hard drive makes it something of a stretch, too. So, $1200-$1400, before taxes, including any customizations, but I'm flexible.
So, what computer should I buy? Should I upgrade to a 512GB or 1TB hard drive? Or upgrade any of the other specs? Do I need to pay attention to graphics cards for the level of gaming that I descried?
Thank you
OK this prompted me to finally install Kerbal Space Program after I bought it last month on a promo sale. Granted, I don't know what I'm doing in there and I only poked around for about 5 minutes, but it seems like it's running totally fine. Runs better than the Sims 3 (lol but doesn't everything?). I've got an Intel core i7, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 960M, and 16 GB of RAM. If that's useful to you!
Garry's Mod ran like total and complete ass if I remember correctly. I do remember I returned it to the Steam store after 10 minutes of "play" time.
posted by phunniemee at 3:29 PM on April 30, 2020
Garry's Mod ran like total and complete ass if I remember correctly. I do remember I returned it to the Steam store after 10 minutes of "play" time.
posted by phunniemee at 3:29 PM on April 30, 2020
Best answer: The games you list aren't particularly heavy on machines. I don't like gaming laptops because they are heavy and clunky generally and can be cheap, and can also run really hot.
I bought my wife a new 15" laptop last year, a Dell XPS ultrabook with Geforce discrete graphics and a SSD. I think it cost around $1500. It's a very nice machine and it runs all the games she likes to play perfectly. Things like "The Room", "The Witness", "Baba is You", "Tetris Effect", etc.
I think you are looking at machines in the right segment. I'd recommend trying to find one with a 512GB SSD.
It's kind of hard to recommend a specific Windows laptop these days because each company has one thousand models. I just looked at the Lenovo website and now I have a headache. But I've really liked her XPS.
posted by selfnoise at 3:42 PM on April 30, 2020
I bought my wife a new 15" laptop last year, a Dell XPS ultrabook with Geforce discrete graphics and a SSD. I think it cost around $1500. It's a very nice machine and it runs all the games she likes to play perfectly. Things like "The Room", "The Witness", "Baba is You", "Tetris Effect", etc.
I think you are looking at machines in the right segment. I'd recommend trying to find one with a 512GB SSD.
It's kind of hard to recommend a specific Windows laptop these days because each company has one thousand models. I just looked at the Lenovo website and now I have a headache. But I've really liked her XPS.
posted by selfnoise at 3:42 PM on April 30, 2020
There are _always_ sales on laptops. I wouldn't go with Lenovo just because they claim a sale is about to end; also every laptop from every manufacturer gets updated every year, so there's always something on closeout. But realistically, there isn't a huge difference between laptops of competing prices/features.
Storage: how much space are you using right now on your current laptop? On most laptops, you can replace the hard drive (more correctly, you can replace the SSD). Storage is cheap - $110 will get you 1TB. Larger laptops have the space to put more than one SSD. Old mechanical hard drives are so slow that you wouldn't want one at all in any new laptop.
Memory: Thinner and lighter laptops are more likely to have permanent, soldered memory that can't be upgraded. The X1 you mentioned is soldered and so you can't add memory to it.
Gaming laptops: These have separate powerful graphics cards specifically designed for 3D gaming. Cheaper ones will be larger and louder, or may have heat issues. Thin and lighter gaming laptops may cost more, or have worse performance. The current 'in' thing for gaming laptops is to have very high-refresh screens (90+ fps) which are great for action games but probably irrelevant for everything else.
Business laptops: They will cost more for the same performance, but the components are likely to last longer. If the components do fail, replacements are more likely to be available. However, they come in a huge range of options.
posted by meowzilla at 4:14 PM on April 30, 2020
Storage: how much space are you using right now on your current laptop? On most laptops, you can replace the hard drive (more correctly, you can replace the SSD). Storage is cheap - $110 will get you 1TB. Larger laptops have the space to put more than one SSD. Old mechanical hard drives are so slow that you wouldn't want one at all in any new laptop.
Memory: Thinner and lighter laptops are more likely to have permanent, soldered memory that can't be upgraded. The X1 you mentioned is soldered and so you can't add memory to it.
Gaming laptops: These have separate powerful graphics cards specifically designed for 3D gaming. Cheaper ones will be larger and louder, or may have heat issues. Thin and lighter gaming laptops may cost more, or have worse performance. The current 'in' thing for gaming laptops is to have very high-refresh screens (90+ fps) which are great for action games but probably irrelevant for everything else.
Business laptops: They will cost more for the same performance, but the components are likely to last longer. If the components do fail, replacements are more likely to be available. However, they come in a huge range of options.
posted by meowzilla at 4:14 PM on April 30, 2020
It would be completely reasonable to go to Newegg and filter laptops by price and rating and pick any from the top.
posted by humboldt32 at 4:28 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by humboldt32 at 4:28 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Notebookcheck.net has a huge database of graphics cards and how well they run certain games. I'm not familiar with all your games but I think Rocket League is maybe one of the most demanding. Most any discrete graphics card these days is going to play that ok, so you might aim for a lower-end discreet card like the GeForce MX 150 or 250. You might also be ok though on some higher-end integrated Intel or AMD graphics cards.
As others have mentioned you might want to steer clear of "gaming laptops" as in general they are either big and clunky, or now they are getting smaller and lighter BUT they generally have poor battery life and run really hot (uncomfortable on your lap). (also they tend to look dumb, although that is getting a bit better too)
I like UltrabookReview for their roundups (it's not just ultrabooks, but they do tend toward the more portable side).
posted by ropeladder at 4:28 PM on April 30, 2020
As others have mentioned you might want to steer clear of "gaming laptops" as in general they are either big and clunky, or now they are getting smaller and lighter BUT they generally have poor battery life and run really hot (uncomfortable on your lap). (also they tend to look dumb, although that is getting a bit better too)
I like UltrabookReview for their roundups (it's not just ultrabooks, but they do tend toward the more portable side).
posted by ropeladder at 4:28 PM on April 30, 2020
Best answer: As far as cpus go, do note that we are kind of at a pivotal moment as the general sentiment is that systems with the new AMD Ryzen chips significantly outperform systems with Intel chips at the same price point (all other things being equal). A lot of smaller laptop makers are not set up to produce non-Intel systems so we may see them playing catch up with next year's models (or maybe later).
That's probably not more important for gaming performance than a good discrete gpu, but it's something to keep in mind.
Something like the ASUS ROG Zephyrus G15 is maybe in the top end of Ryzen systems at the moment if you're not in a position to be waiting until more manufacturers bring out their own (or possibly even longer for a competitive Intel response).
posted by juv3nal at 5:09 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
That's probably not more important for gaming performance than a good discrete gpu, but it's something to keep in mind.
Something like the ASUS ROG Zephyrus G15 is maybe in the top end of Ryzen systems at the moment if you're not in a position to be waiting until more manufacturers bring out their own (or possibly even longer for a competitive Intel response).
posted by juv3nal at 5:09 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
My gaming laptop with an SSD cost me quite a bit, and broke after I ran some extremely intensive programs on it. A cheaper laptop performs just as well, if not better for me. It is lighter, more portable, and worries me less. I found a more efficient algorithm for what I was trying to accomplish, as a result, also. You could try a lot of those games on Google Stadia and spend your hard-earned money on something else.
posted by metasunday at 5:58 PM on April 30, 2020
posted by metasunday at 5:58 PM on April 30, 2020
Response by poster: juv3nal: I may or may not buy the computer tonight, but I don't think I'm going to wait for new models with new technology. Thanks
meowzilla: I have a Matebook E, which I was ashamed to admit in the original post. I'm pretty sure I can't upgrade anything. Thanks.
I started at the Lenovo website, so I'm still concentrating on the Lenovo more than maybe I should be. Their gaming computers seem to be completely separated from their other product lines. They also seem to be excluded from the sale that I'm fixated on, but the prices seem lower anyway. Their Legion gaming laptops have generation 9 processors. I don't understand how much of a difference that makes or how much of a discount that should be worth. Also, they all seem to have 1 big HDD and a supplementary SSD.
And holy Toledo, are they big and clunky!? They're as heavy as the laptop that made me swear off big laptops and run to the Matebook. They're also much thicker.
Is there such a thing as a non-gaming laptop with a discrete graphics card?
Are HDDs bad even if there's also an SSD?
Are "heat issues" just a matter of comfort? Will heat issues really only be a factor for extended gaming sessions? I'm probably not going to do that often. Or does that affect durability?
posted by stuart_s at 6:11 PM on April 30, 2020
meowzilla: I have a Matebook E, which I was ashamed to admit in the original post. I'm pretty sure I can't upgrade anything. Thanks.
I started at the Lenovo website, so I'm still concentrating on the Lenovo more than maybe I should be. Their gaming computers seem to be completely separated from their other product lines. They also seem to be excluded from the sale that I'm fixated on, but the prices seem lower anyway. Their Legion gaming laptops have generation 9 processors. I don't understand how much of a difference that makes or how much of a discount that should be worth. Also, they all seem to have 1 big HDD and a supplementary SSD.
And holy Toledo, are they big and clunky!? They're as heavy as the laptop that made me swear off big laptops and run to the Matebook. They're also much thicker.
Is there such a thing as a non-gaming laptop with a discrete graphics card?
Are HDDs bad even if there's also an SSD?
Are "heat issues" just a matter of comfort? Will heat issues really only be a factor for extended gaming sessions? I'm probably not going to do that often. Or does that affect durability?
posted by stuart_s at 6:11 PM on April 30, 2020
You can buy a Dell XPS with discrete graphics and I'm sure that other ultrabooks have options as well. The nice thing about those is that you can set it up to use the Nvidia graphics only when necessary.
For SSDs, you realize the vast majority of the performance advantage when using the SSD as the boot drive. Hard drives are fine for extra storage or even for loading games (it will take longer, but it's not the end of the world).
Heat issues can affect durability, and it can also cause irritating noise as the fans spin up to max RPM.
posted by selfnoise at 6:45 PM on April 30, 2020
For SSDs, you realize the vast majority of the performance advantage when using the SSD as the boot drive. Hard drives are fine for extra storage or even for loading games (it will take longer, but it's not the end of the world).
Heat issues can affect durability, and it can also cause irritating noise as the fans spin up to max RPM.
posted by selfnoise at 6:45 PM on April 30, 2020
I may or may not buy the computer tonight, but I don't think I'm going to wait for new models with new technology.
Then maybe have a look at the ASUS ROG one I mentioned as it should be available right now. If you don't care about gaming at all, the Lenovo Ideapad 5 uses Ryzen and is good value for money.
Is there such a thing as a non-gaming laptop with a discrete graphics card?
Sure, for example discrete graphics are available as an option on the Dell XPS 15, but you aren't likely to find the top end kind of GPUs as you would with a "proper" gaming laptop. If you don't play games that need that kind of power, it shouldn't be an issue. The problem I always have is I don't replace my laptop often so I'm always thinking something like "this GPU is fine for everything I want to play now, but what about in 4 years?
posted by juv3nal at 6:48 PM on April 30, 2020
Then maybe have a look at the ASUS ROG one I mentioned as it should be available right now. If you don't care about gaming at all, the Lenovo Ideapad 5 uses Ryzen and is good value for money.
Is there such a thing as a non-gaming laptop with a discrete graphics card?
Sure, for example discrete graphics are available as an option on the Dell XPS 15, but you aren't likely to find the top end kind of GPUs as you would with a "proper" gaming laptop. If you don't play games that need that kind of power, it shouldn't be an issue. The problem I always have is I don't replace my laptop often so I'm always thinking something like "this GPU is fine for everything I want to play now, but what about in 4 years?
posted by juv3nal at 6:48 PM on April 30, 2020
You won't find anything as small as a Matebook or XPS13 that has a discrete video card, or at least not one worth spending money on. This is more or less a matter of physics -- having more than a potato GPU means using substantially more power than a standard li'l ultrabook, and that means bigger heatsinks to cool them (or, see XPS 15), and that means bigger cases.
The XPS 15 commonly gets knocked down in reviews because their chassis...ses just can't provide enough cooling to the cpu and gpu, so if you actually stress them they throttle themselves and reduce performance quickly.
One thing I'd suggest is looking at the graphics card or integrated gpu in a machine you're otherwise interested in and then searching youtube for "game thatgraphics" like "beamng iris graphics" or "kerbal intel 620." This'll give you a decent idea of what gameplay would look like.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:23 PM on April 30, 2020
The XPS 15 commonly gets knocked down in reviews because their chassis...ses just can't provide enough cooling to the cpu and gpu, so if you actually stress them they throttle themselves and reduce performance quickly.
One thing I'd suggest is looking at the graphics card or integrated gpu in a machine you're otherwise interested in and then searching youtube for "game thatgraphics" like "beamng iris graphics" or "kerbal intel 620." This'll give you a decent idea of what gameplay would look like.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:23 PM on April 30, 2020
I don't think you need to spend over $1000 on a gaming laptop to get a decent one.
I just bought the Acer Nitro 5 about a month ago, for exactly the same purposes (light-medium gaming, some business stuff). It was only about $650 on Best Buy.
It has been awesome so far and I've been doing a lot of gaming during quarantine. It's fast, seems to have a lot of storage space, and the keyboard lights up which has been helpful. I've been able to play all the games that I like on Steam, and none of them have broken the laptop yet :-).
Oh, it is definitely big and clunky, if that matters to you.
posted by koolaidnovel at 3:32 PM on May 1, 2020
I just bought the Acer Nitro 5 about a month ago, for exactly the same purposes (light-medium gaming, some business stuff). It was only about $650 on Best Buy.
It has been awesome so far and I've been doing a lot of gaming during quarantine. It's fast, seems to have a lot of storage space, and the keyboard lights up which has been helpful. I've been able to play all the games that I like on Steam, and none of them have broken the laptop yet :-).
Oh, it is definitely big and clunky, if that matters to you.
posted by koolaidnovel at 3:32 PM on May 1, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
What I did was look at the minimum and recommended specs for all the steam games on my wishlist, and work backwards from there. I prioritized processor and graphics card.
At the time, a 2 year out of date (so, not the hottest thing, not the latest model, the value had depreciated somewhat) Lenovo Y50 was the machine that met the specs I needed and also met what my wallet wanted. Came with a stock 1TB hard drive. I upgraded the RAM myself, only recently.
I like to run my mouth about my decisions to anyone who is within earshot when I'm thinking about something, so a lot of people got to listen to my laptop deliberations. Lots of people thought it was "stupid" that I was buying an "old" laptop. It's still great and still has perfectly fine specs for, like, 95% of what I'm interested in doing. For me, a richer computer would have been wasted.
Anyway, long story short, start with what you know you can't compromise on and work backwards from there, keeping in mind that the newest computer isn't necessarily the best computer for you.
posted by phunniemee at 3:11 PM on April 30, 2020