Coronavirus and polyamory

April 5, 2020 4:57 PM

I've (28F) been living with and married to my wife (37F), let's call her O, for five years now. O has been dating another woman, J, for a year. O normally sees J twice a week, but O and I were doing a staycation until last Wednesday, so she didn't see J since shelter-in-place was enacted. O said to me a week before, "I've thought about it, and I'm going to continue to see J twice a week."

So she went over there last Thursday and spent the night. Before she went over today I started questioning her decision to keep seeing her girlfriend...

I basically said to my wife: hey, this is kind of a big deal--instead of you going over there today, can we talk about what precautions we're going to take?; because this puts me at risk if you're seeing J, and I didn't actually agree to that, you just told me you were going to see her without asking me how I felt about the risk it imparts on me. I told her it felt akin to saying to me "I'm going to start have unprotected sex with J" without talking to me about the precautions; I asked her if this analogy felt appropriate to her, and she said that it did.

I asked if instead of her going to see J today we could talk about what we were going to do moving forward to minimize our risk. She said no and left an hour ago.

We have had a lot of conflict surrounding her relationship with her girlfriend, and at times I have felt a lot of jealousy, so I wonder if she feels like I was using this as an opportunity to limit her contact with J for that reason. I told her I wasn't saying that she couldn't see J anymore, but that I wanted to talk about precautions; like maybe J doesn't ever leave the house and when we do our grocery shopping, we get J groceries, too, and they don't see each other for two weeks while we do that. I really don't know what makes the most sense in terms of staying safe, I just wanted to have a conversation about what we could do moving forward. I asked her if she thought I was being controlling, and she responded, "I don't know."

I don't know what to do, now. In my eyes, she was really inconsiderate about the level of risk she is putting me under, and I'm extremely hurt. I asked her how she would feel if I ended up getting really sick, and she didn't have an answer. I love my wife very much and want her to be happy, but from my perspective, there's a lot of people I'd want to be seeing right now, but I've made the hard sacrifice of not seeing them. I feel really hurt and I don't know how to move forward. This feels like a major rupture in our relationship.

When she told me that she had already seen J on Thursday, so it wasn't actually any more of a risk, I told her that that didn't make any sense, because if J had been exposed previously, she could be carrying a much larger viral load today and still not have any symptoms.

I really don't know what to do... I feel scared and hurt and so, so incredibly sad. I love my wife very much and want her to be happy, but I feel like she is being unfair to me by continuing to see her girlfriend without taking any real precautions. I don't know how to have a conversation moving forward, because I feel uncertain of her commitment to keeping both of us safe. What do I do?

posted by baptismal to Human Relations (26 answers total)

Tell her to stay at J's for the duration. She doesn't value your safety or feelings. Tell her to stay with J for the duration and get a lawyer. DTMFA.
posted by jzb at 5:03 PM on April 5, 2020 [135 favorites]

She's aware of the risks, you guys had a serious conversation, and she did it anyways. I am also on team "Tell her to stay there, sort it out later" I am in an LDR with a partner who has an adult kid living at home in a state that has a high number of COVID cases. We're not doing anything more than "socially distant walking" together until something changes. Things are hard and require real sacrifice and I'm sorry your wife doesn't seem to be able to either understand that or act on it.
posted by jessamyn at 5:12 PM on April 5, 2020 [24 favorites]

I'm poly. This is a huge nope. You're supposed to be sheltering in place *with the people you live with.* Offsite lovers just became LDRs. Yes, that sucks, but that's life. I would tell her that she wasn't welcome back.

(If J could have agreed to 14 days of quarantine and then move in with you two, OK. But O didn't ask or negotiate any of this, she just acted unilaterally, like a single person. Which if she were my wife, I would treat her as going forward.)
posted by shadygrove at 5:19 PM on April 5, 2020 [60 favorites]

I think it would be possible for the three of you to work together to come to a plan that you all feel is suitably safe. You could shelter together, even if there are actually two households. For that to happen, you would all need to acknowledge the dangers and the real situation, and work together in good faith, and I don't see that happening. I think instead you aren't a team of three like you must be; if you don't know J and don't all have the kind of openness that would allow you to work together, you're not in Poly land at all, you're in It's Complicated land. As an aside, your unresolved jealousy is part of that too.

I agree with you that this is exactly the same as safe sex considerations. I just want to assure you that you are seeing the situation clearly. I agree that she should stay at J's now, I'm sorry, it's going to be really hard to shelter alone, but in this situation we can only team up with people who care about our safety.

I'm sorry to see you wanting her assurance that you're not being "controlling", the thing folks are called by manipulators when they have boundaries and stick up for themselves. You must have boundaries to protect your own health.
posted by fritley at 5:22 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]

Poly or not, Covid-19 era or not, people in loving primary relationships *discuss* major decisions with each other, they don't unilaterally decide and then issue proclamations. The fact that her decision could literally kill you makes this even more of a hard Nope. Your wife is acting like she's single... So she should be! DTMFA.
posted by nirblegee at 5:27 PM on April 5, 2020 [44 favorites]

I asked if instead of her going to see J today we could talk about what we were going to do moving forward to minimize our risk. She said no and left an hour ago.

I think you are very in the right here that a conversation that leads to both of your consent was and is needed. And also, it stands out to me that you chose today to have this discussion, rather than, say, Friday when you two could maybe have had time to reach consensus before your wife's next scheduled visit.
posted by solotoro at 5:27 PM on April 5, 2020 [8 favorites]

Well, I think she’s made her choice clear. Now you need to make yours. I know what I’d be doing...
posted by Jubey at 5:29 PM on April 5, 2020 [6 favorites]

Oh good god, even Tristan Taormino and Polyamory Weekly are saying don't boink anyone you don't live with. This is not okay.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:45 PM on April 5, 2020 [12 favorites]

You may want to visit r/polyamory as nearly every other post is about partners and quarantining right now.

As a fellow poly person, I am not seeing my non-live-in partner right now. It sucks but this is why God invented texting and phone calls.

Regarding your wife, she is being very unsafe and inconsiderate. If they've been dating a year it's possible she's still in the throes of NRE and is not thinking clearly but that's not an excuse. Is this her first relationship since you got married?

If it were me, I would ask my wife why she is insisting on seeing J twice a week, knowing the risks. Has she explained why? She knows so many others are making sacrifices, why is she the exception? Also why was she unwilling to compromise when it sounds like you are willing to?

Your wife being the hinge in this scenario, she is allowing her relationship with J to interfere with her relationship with you and that's not okay. The fact that she doesn't seem to care is even worse.

I'd suggest looking for a poly-friendly therapist, I know some/many of them do video sessions. I also think it's totally fair to tell your wife to stay at J's. If she is enthusiastic about that suggestion, that's also gonna tell you a lot you need to know. I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by girlmightlive at 6:39 PM on April 5, 2020 [9 favorites]

There's a lot going on here that others are focusing on, but I want to reiterate what solotoro pointed out: instead of having this conversation earlier, you opted to do it at the exact time that demanded that she not see her other partner, regardless of how the conversation went. That strikes me as odd, and kinda does make it seem like you're using this to affect their relationship.

That said, you are correct that she does not have the right to unilaterally decide this and if she continues to be unwilling to discuss this when you bring it up at times other than when she's walking out the door, I would, as others have suggested, socially isolate from her, ideally by her living elsewhere.
posted by metasarah at 6:50 PM on April 5, 2020 [5 favorites]

Your wife is breaking quarantine to go spend potentially infectious time with someone outside the household. That is ridiculously reckless if she expects you to let her back in.

I can think of a few ways forward but they all start with the fact that your wife cannot be trusted to make responsible choices around protecting you from a potentially deadly virus. Needless to say, all of the paths are pretty grim.

Practically, I think "You Live With J Now" is the best answer. That will give everyone time to regroup if nothing else.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:59 PM on April 5, 2020 [9 favorites]

So she pretty obviously talked about it with J and told you what they decided but didn’t involve you in a decision that literally puts your life on the line? And then she flat out refused to discuss it with you? I hate to break it to you, but you’re no longer the primary partner.

Tell her to go to J’s and not come back.

Ever.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:26 PM on April 5, 2020 [24 favorites]

You can’t make her happy and keep yourself safe at the same time. I hope you follow the advice given and keep her out of your home. Whether or not she owns part of the house or is on the lease, you've got to protect your health. The legalities or kicking her out can be worked out after the pandemic is over. Don't knuckle under. Don't try to be noble and fair. In a few years, you'll have more clarity on this. Protect yourself in this current circumstance...no one else will.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:51 PM on April 5, 2020

I'm so sorry. Your wife is being incredibly selfish. Your feelings are 100% understandable and justified. If I were you, I would tell her that she should stay at J's at least until quarantine is over. I'd ask her what things she wanted and leave them out for her. I'd say please stay there until we know more, with a plan to reevaluate when the time is right. This, in my opinion, is a dealbreaker. It's a double whammy - a disregard of both your emotional and physical health. I have been in poly relationships. This absolutely would not fly.
posted by pazazygeek at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2020 [7 favorites]

There's a lot going on here that others are focusing on, but I want to reiterate what solotoro pointed out: instead of having this conversation earlier, you opted to do it at the exact time that demanded that she not see her other partner, regardless of how the conversation went. That strikes me as odd, and kinda does make it seem like you're using this to affect their relationship.

not to put words into OP's mouth, but it's the kind of thing you do when you're nonconfrontational and also hoping really hard that the person you're in relationship conflict with will realize how much they are hurting you and make the right choice, without having to be badgered into doing something decent for you.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:47 PM on April 5, 2020 [59 favorites]

If you're not quite ready to shut her out of the house I'd say it's fair to demand that if she comes back she self-quarantines in part of the house (away from you) and she doesn't go see J again. People are having to quarantine in part of their homes a lot right now; I heard Adam Savage on a podcast talking about how his mother had been quarantining in his basement, and as soon as she got out his son arrived in town and had to quarantine in the basement until they were sure he was disease-free. It sucks, but people are doing it.

When shit got real, your wife made the choice to endanger your life so she could be with her girlfriend. You could maybe (MAYBE) excuse it as her not thinking this all through in a moment of panicky desperation, but it was still a shitty, shitty choice. You can give her the choice to quarantine in part of the house or tell her to stay at J's for the duration, but I think you need to make it very clear to her that her behavior was not OK and if she wants to save your marriage she's going to have to work hard for it and go to counseling with you. If she tries to just go back to "normal" you must refuse, no matter how tempting it is to take the offer. We are dealing with an actual plague here, a global pandemic, and she has put her own desires above your safety, potentially risking your life.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:25 PM on April 5, 2020 [9 favorites]

Your wife knowingly exposed you to every single person J even came into sort-of nearness with for approximately the last month. And she did so deliberately, despite your relationship being one where openness, honesty, and consent are absolutely a necessity.

IMO, that means you really need to reconsider some things, including which of your wife's relationships SHE considers the prime one, and what her level of commitment to YOUR relationship really is.
posted by stormyteal at 11:38 PM on April 5, 2020 [13 favorites]

Your safe sex analogy seems very apt.

The way you respond shouldn't primarily be about staying physically safe, because unless you live in an unusual epicenter, right now the absolute risk of contact with a person is not very high. It should be about the fact that your wife is choosing to do something remarkably selfish and refuses to respect your opinion or your feelings, which is a really big problem, but not one unique to the present moment.
posted by value of information at 4:25 AM on April 6, 2020 [2 favorites]

I am sheltering in place with my husband while my other partner of eight years shelters alone at his apartment. Three weeks ago, when it became clear that the SIP order was coming, my first impulse was to try to negotiate some kind of visitation scenario. But my husband, who was ahead of me in understanding the gravity of the situation, asked me to explain to him why I thought that was safe and OK. A moment's reflection made me realize that it wasn't, but even though I agreed that it was the right decision, I was definitely upset. I asked my husband to give me some space to be sad and angry about the necessity and tried hard not to take it out on him.

Our poly practice is built around negotiating fairly about our individual and collective needs and coming to an agreement that satisfies all parties. But in this case, outside forces have made that impossible. I really wish we'd made that poly compound we sometimes joke about a reality, so my other partner wouldn't be alone right now. We're trying to bridge the distance with twice weekly Skype dates (we've got enough room that I can have some privacy for them). It's not great, but it's what we can do to stay connected under the circumstances.

In your case, it sounds like the conversation needs to move beyond your wife's (admittedly high stakes) in-the-moment decision and into a bigger meta-conversation about your relationship overall. Poly can be hard and these kinds of tests show you very clearly where the fault lines are. How you deal with them will be vital to the future of your marriage. Wishing you the best.
posted by merriment at 5:12 AM on April 6, 2020 [4 favorites]

The way you respond shouldn't primarily be about staying physically safe, because unless you live in an unusual epicenter, right now the absolute risk of contact with a person is not very high.

True or not, please don’t base your actions on this sentiment. Lots of individuals acting as if they are at low risk is how everyone comes to be at high risk.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:49 AM on April 6, 2020 [24 favorites]

I am a woman married to a woman and also poly and I would also classify this as a huge nope. I would think about the negotiations around sheltering in place vs visitation as being like negotiating around fluid exchange and stuff but something WAY MORE CONTAGIOUS than STDs.

Your wife is treating you badly and intentionally putting you at risk in ways you have not agreed to and it sounds like she has also been lying (by omission if not overtly) if she's already been visiting her gf.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:59 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]

Just adding that your wife making this decision without adequate consultation is definitely not okay. It also sounds like she's not keeping up on the poly-friendly social guidelines that are developing.

As a learning curve though, you should have addressed this with her before she was about to leave. I think given that she went over last Thursday, it was slightly new information to her that you were not okay with her going a second time, and it would have been more respectful for you to put the emotional labour in to discuss it in advance of her booked date time.

For that reason, I would (assuming she's home now) ask her to be isolated and then have a more fulsome discussion with her, rather than going straight to dumping her.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:38 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]

Just like how you don't have to keep having sex with someone who's having unprotected sex with others whose safety you're not comfortable with, you don't have to keep being inside her quarantine bubble.

You can see if she's more willing to talk about it afterward (when it doesn't feel like the conversation is a trap between her and her lover), and if you can work out a way to make J part of your family decision-making and safety bubble. But if not, if youre not comfortable with the risks J is taking or don't trust J to that level, I think you're stuck trying to isolate from each other at home, as much as possible. If she would be willing to go live with J instead and have you be the one on the phone dates side, that would also work - it puts the sacrifice on your side instead of on J's side, but... Well, a lot of people are stuck isolating alone right now.

I'm so sorry, this is really hard.
posted by Lady Li at 8:56 AM on April 6, 2020 [1 favorite]

I think everyone covered it: this is something that possibly COULD have been worked out (if the three of you could honestly negotiate things together and everyone - not just you - was generous and willing to make sacrifices). But it wasn't worked out. Instead your wife acted unilaterally in a way that puts all three of you in physical danger.

But I just want to add, I am a person who sometimes finds that in an effort to be respectful and kind to someone I am close to, I have put myself in harms way without realizing it until things have gone along too far. I find that my thinking becomes unclear when I am deeply immersed in the dynamic with this person, and I can only imagine it would be worse if I was physically isolated in a house with that person. Consider reaching out to friends or seeking therapy so you have a third party who loves and knows you to help provide perspective.
posted by latkes at 9:56 AM on April 6, 2020 [7 favorites]

I think you both are guilty of not communicating well enough, which is a natural but unfortunate reality of being in human relationships. You should have realized your feelings about her visits before it was visit time, and she should have talked to you about the visits before the first visit took place. But when you brought up that a mistake had been made - she continued to make the mistake. it's this specifically that I think is the biggest red flag. Either she was inconsiderate of your feelings, or being selfish about her needs, or, and I think this is true, she had this discussion, but it was with J and not you, so she didn't feel the need to have the conversation again.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:19 AM on April 7, 2020

Everybody in my extended polycule has been staying isolated at home.

No matter how painful it is not to see some of one's core partners for months, it's essential.

Like most poly questions on mefi, this one would be useful to ask in a poly forum or poly FB group...
posted by kalapierson at 10:30 PM on April 7, 2020 [1 favorite]