Where are tall fences common in the U.S. other than California?

April 4, 2020 5:46 AM

I like living in dense areas but also really value having private outdoor space. In cities like L.A., it's common to have tall fences in both front and back yards. I'm sure this is partly because the weather is so nice it's possible to outside most of the time, and yards are also tiny. Where else are fences like this common (or even allowed)? I'm interested in much less expensive cities.

I want to move somewhere less expensive and would like a very private backyard and ideally a private front yard, while still being in a walkable area. It seems like a lot of zoning laws don't allow tall fences.

posted by pinochiette to Home & Garden (15 answers total)

How tall? 6-foot wood "privacy fences" are very common here in Memphis, and are pretty common in Texas, too, but only for the back yard. Front yard I haven't seen.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:40 AM on April 4, 2020 [1 favorite]

Toronto for instance has rigid limits on fence height (4’ in front 6’ in back) but if you set the fence back 8 feet from the lot line (front or back) you can go as high as you like, so if you get a big enough yard the locality it may not matter.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:41 AM on April 4, 2020 [1 favorite]

In some places where the lots are small and the houses are necessarily close to the street, they will allow taller fences in order to maintain more privacy, improve views (no one wants to be on display for a high traffic area 25’ from your front window), and prevent easy trespassing. Some places have zoning that prevents high fences but people ignore it. If a whole street or neighborhood ignores it then it might just become character. But, the thing to do is to research zoning wherever you are interested in buying. A local realtor can point you in the right direction. If you look around at the houses and they have no fences or low fences, you can assume there is some requirement. A place with an HOA or design overlay will also have rules in place. I can think of many places that I walked in L.A. that had no front yard fences. These tended to be on bigger properties where the houses were set back. And then there are whole wealthy neighborhoods where a perimeter stone wall at least 6’ is allowed.
posted by amanda at 8:01 AM on April 4, 2020

We have a 6 foot privacy fence in our backyard in St. Louis. Plenty of other people also have tall fences.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 8:42 AM on April 4, 2020

Response by poster: This is an example of the type of front yard fence I'm talking about. I live in the Bay Area, and it's fairly common to see this even when people have modest houses and very small front yards.
posted by pinochiette at 8:50 AM on April 4, 2020

As a former city planner for the city of San Jose, I can tell you that your example of front yard fencing is certainly not permitted by the zoning code. You might feel those are common, but I would say they are very out of character, and almost all zoning codes limit fencing in the front setback to something around 4'. So I would say looking for somewhere where that is in fact the norm would be unsuccessful.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:11 AM on April 4, 2020 [7 favorites]

Front yard fences like that area not common in Oregon and are usually put in by people from not-Oregon, if they're even allowed. Municipalities are allowed to dictate fence height and they may not be legal everywhere.
Backyard fences in Oregon are usually limited to 6' regardless of location for fire safety reasons.
posted by fiercekitten at 9:15 AM on April 4, 2020

Yeah in my area of New York, you can have 6' fences in the back yard, but front yard fences cannot be higher than 3'. I have definitely seen tall front fences in Seattle, but the cost of living there is comparable to coastal California. They may also not be legal there, they tend to be on very expensive properties where maybe people can afford the fines or have been able to get a variance.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:54 AM on April 4, 2020 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I love the example you shared. However, I’m not convinced that that one is legal per zoning. You could look up that city’s zoning map and might even be able to search by that address and find info on that specific lot. It may be that that city or neighborhood allows tall front fences. However, if it’s the neighborhood then you are likely looking at a design overlay or some other exception. Like, perhaps they didn’t used to have a zoning restriction but now they do. And perhaps they are allowing existing tall fences to remain because we don’t like to compel private property owners to do things. So for all intents and purposes that’s not actually a place where it is allowed. It’s an example (possibly) of a “non-conforming” property and if their fence fell over then they might be disallowed from replacing it with a tall fence.

Some properties might get a variance through an appeal process due to a neighboring condition that the city ultimately reviewed and allowed. In general, urban neighborhoods that are walkable and attractive to live in have enforced zoning. And encouraging walkable, safe neighborhoods is all about “eyes on the street” which tall fences do not facilitate. Your best bet is to research the zoning for the place you are interested in or to buy a property that already has a fence. But review the zoning anyway because if it is out of conformance then you might want to know ahead of time that at some point in the future, it might have to change.
posted by amanda at 9:57 AM on April 4, 2020 [1 favorite]

Best answer: When I look on street view, I see most of the houses surrounding it do not have fences above 3’. You have to go down a block to find another house with a tall fence. I feel like I remember houses in Venice area having tall fences but I’m picturing this on very narrow alley streets where density resulted in the back yard becoming the front yard. A “flag lot” situation might allow this. In Oregon, that’s where a house is built behind another house where the property is deep enough to be divided this way. You don’t have street frontage other than driveway access and I think tall fences are allowed for privacy from your neighbor’s back yard.
posted by amanda at 10:17 AM on April 4, 2020

pinochette, the Los Feliz address in your link has an unusually tall fence + hedge combo in the front yard. The city of Los Angeles usually caps front fences/hedges at 42 inches. Possibilities: the property's in a mixed-use or commercial district; the original fence had greater visibility than is apparent now that the hedge has filled in; the owners are paying a hefty variance fee; it's just illegal; some other exception because LA ordinances are reliably dotty.

(There are so many variables in any given metropolitan area that I think you should hone in on an affordable, walkable city with some of your other new-area must-haves, and then examine the housing options there. Taller fences and hedges might be allowed in an older part of said city, or the property itself may be in a mixed-use area with eased fence requirements. Or lattice-work fencing covered with dense vines would meet your needs. Sometimes taller buildings have ivy growing on their sides, which can contribute to a shorter building's yard having that private, courtyard atmosphere. Or you may find the perfect hideaway, and ante up for the variance fee (if you're the homeowner rather than the renter... and 'affordable' housing stock will mean different things if you intend to buy rather than rent).)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:07 AM on April 4, 2020 [2 favorites]

You are looking for four things that are somewhat in conflict with each other:

1. Cheap, or at least affordable
2. Walkable and therefor at least moderate density
3. Walkable and therefor smaller lots (IE: not 1/2 acre and up lots, something more like 50x100 or so).
4. Privacy provided by fencing and therefor limited dwelling height, preferably single story and level entry.

In America, in general in the last 70 years, single family housing has spread out for privacy. Where land values are high enough to premote densification multiple stories, multifamily dwellings (duplex/triplex/townhouse/row housing), low rise buildings occur on at least some properties. Even if land values weren't high already places with single story single family homes on small lots are generally in high demand now if anyone wants to live in that location.

Two story (or even 1.5 story) houses generally spike the cannon of any absolute privacy provided by tall fences.

IME practically all municipalities have at least some neighborhoods that allow 6' fences in backyards. Often they will be older areas not burdened with an HOA or architectural deed restrictions. Often there are loopholes to the 6' limit too (eg: where I live backyard fences are limited to 2m (6'6") but you can plant columnar cedars along your property line that with time can reach 12-20' high).

Places I've lived the only tall fences permitted in front yards are facing heavy traffic arterial roads. This can be side stepped to some degree with hedges instead of a fence in the right neighbourhood because practically all enforcement of fence height laws are complaint driven. If no one cares if you have a high hedge it's allowed. But you run the risk of a new person in the neighourhood raising a stink about illegal hedges.

I have lived some places with narrow lots (25-30 feet); small single story houses, and minimum setbacks in front (20', just enough to park a couple cars). The fence restriction there doesn't matter because only cars are in the front yard. Where I live now there are a couple houses with front courtyards with 8' walls but that is only permitted after a 20 or 30' setback from the street. There is still a little front yard between the courtyard and the street.

I'll echo amanada and Iris Gambol, most older municipalities (IE: those that haven't been built from scratch int he last 30-40 years) have older neighbourhoods that lack HOA or architectural deed restrictions. Those built in the post war period are often composed of small 5-600 sq foot houses built on small lots. Those are the kind of places I'd be looking for in a city that otherwise meets your desired criteria.

Also a friend once owned the only penthouse in a neighbourhood of three and four story walk ups. And by penthouse I mean a literal house built on the roof of a four story walk up. His "yard" was the roof of the building which had been covered with gravel, pavers and planter boxes containing foliage up to medium sized hedges. He had a gazebo, hot tub and a small section of artificial turf; all on the roof of the building. It was the absolutely best combination of urban living and rural like privacy. It was also relatively quiet because of the height above the street and because the street noise tended to be channeled straight up. I was intensely jealous.
posted by Mitheral at 4:25 PM on April 4, 2020 [3 favorites]

Best answer: Albuquerque NM in the North Valley. Lots of lovely courtyards etc. Cost of living much better than LA.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 4:31 PM on April 4, 2020

Best answer: i live in rva, which means a LOT of rowhouses and other buildings from the 20s. almost everyone here has a 6-ft privacy fence
posted by megan_magnolia at 6:43 PM on April 4, 2020

That house sold for over $900k in August 2019, which is shockingly cheap for the area, so there must problems with with not clear from the listing.

Also, it isn’t even a good example of typical Los Feliz, to say nothing of the rest of Los Angeles. Tall fences in the front yard are not common in the least.
posted by sideshow at 9:54 AM on April 5, 2020