Travel to care for potentially sick parent?
March 31, 2020 2:11 PM Subscribe
My friend's mom lives alone a twelve hour drive away, and might have COVID-19 symptoms. Is driving there to take care of her the correct thing to do? If not, what is, and how do you communicate that to the mom?
I'd like to help my friend make an informed decision about weighing the US pandemic guidelines with the responsibility to take care of his mother. Her current symptoms are a slight cough and a slight chest tightness. She is in her fifties, has an upper middle class life (professor, large home), but she lives alone and doesn't have a local support system other than through work. My friend has been in quarantine for two weeks, and would plan to drive down in his own vehicle.
How does this particular situation balance with the goals of public safety, when the default is that we should be staying home? Some related questions: does it make more sense for him to drive down if her symptoms get worse, or does it make even less sense then, since he would be more likely to contract the virus from her? The recommendation is to be in quarantine for two weeks after any travel -- would that apply even by car, with precautions at gas pumps? And, this is the real doozy: if the right thing to do is to not travel, how would it be best to frame it to the mom, who is scared and wants her son nearby?
Thank you in advance for fielding yet another pandemic question, everyone!
I'd like to help my friend make an informed decision about weighing the US pandemic guidelines with the responsibility to take care of his mother. Her current symptoms are a slight cough and a slight chest tightness. She is in her fifties, has an upper middle class life (professor, large home), but she lives alone and doesn't have a local support system other than through work. My friend has been in quarantine for two weeks, and would plan to drive down in his own vehicle.
How does this particular situation balance with the goals of public safety, when the default is that we should be staying home? Some related questions: does it make more sense for him to drive down if her symptoms get worse, or does it make even less sense then, since he would be more likely to contract the virus from her? The recommendation is to be in quarantine for two weeks after any travel -- would that apply even by car, with precautions at gas pumps? And, this is the real doozy: if the right thing to do is to not travel, how would it be best to frame it to the mom, who is scared and wants her son nearby?
Thank you in advance for fielding yet another pandemic question, everyone!
I have those symptoms and I'm fine home alone. I can't imagine what having someone else here would do other than get them sick too. I have a doctor who is aware and I have (far too many) people calling and checking in constantly. Plus, for all Iknow I just have a cold.
posted by fshgrl at 3:02 PM on March 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 3:02 PM on March 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
Similar issues have been discussed in previous AskMes, including: I can leave NYC. Should I? (it's in a rural area that has asked visitors to stay away), NYC-Dwelling Daughter Will Not Leave, Covid19 Edition (seeking advice to convince her), I Don't Know Which Bastard to Be (friend is dying, wants me to come see him, but getting there involves air travel), living with someone who is being reckless about COVID (partner is unconcerned about COVID and going about business as usual.), COVID-19 gathering (Happy to look at articles backing up what is or isn't okay and why), Social Distance Dilemma (how do I stand my ground), Physical distancing within an intentional community (how to communicate effectively), Help me persuade my dad to stay inside (focused on the specific point about risk)
Also: Younger Adults Make Up Big Portion of Coronavirus Hospitalizations in U.S. (NYT)
via the MeFi Wiki Disaster Planning & Recovery Page, Medical Pandemic section
posted by katra at 3:06 PM on March 31, 2020 [12 favorites]
Also: Younger Adults Make Up Big Portion of Coronavirus Hospitalizations in U.S. (NYT)
via the MeFi Wiki Disaster Planning & Recovery Page, Medical Pandemic section
posted by katra at 3:06 PM on March 31, 2020 [12 favorites]
So right now she doesn't sound that sick. Is he worried that she'll get very sick and won't be able to go to the hospital so he wants to get there sooner? I guess, if she's a 12-hour drive away, if he truly felt like she was getting sicker but couldn't go to the hospital, he could just be ready to leave?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:10 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 4:10 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's not relevant that other people feel fine alone when sick - his particular mother is alone and scared and asked for him to come, and her feelings are not less valid than anyone else's. I don't think leaving people to weather illness alone is morally right, but your friend may feel differently, as clearly others in this thread do. The reason I haven't seen my parents is largely to protect them and yes, the public - but protecting mom is clearly a ship that's sailed for your friend at this point. Personally I would not be happy refusing this request from my older, lonely, frightened parent if I could reasonably protect myself, which is the question at hand.
So this hinges on safety. Would he be able to be in her home and shop for groceries/cook without having physical contact with her? Is there a bathroom he could use that's not the same as hers? Could she essentially be quarantined in her own bedroom? Can he come with gloves and a mask and disinfect any surface she may have touched, which will become "his" until 14 days past her symptoms OR he returns home? Is this possible? If so, I'd go. If not, I'd assess point by point.
For gas stations, get rubber gloves and dispose of them immediately after use. Pee on the roadside and plan to hold in poop for 12 hours. Plan to bring all food and water for the trip with him. Can he sleep in the car or make the trip in one day?
posted by namesarehard at 4:59 PM on March 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
So this hinges on safety. Would he be able to be in her home and shop for groceries/cook without having physical contact with her? Is there a bathroom he could use that's not the same as hers? Could she essentially be quarantined in her own bedroom? Can he come with gloves and a mask and disinfect any surface she may have touched, which will become "his" until 14 days past her symptoms OR he returns home? Is this possible? If so, I'd go. If not, I'd assess point by point.
For gas stations, get rubber gloves and dispose of them immediately after use. Pee on the roadside and plan to hold in poop for 12 hours. Plan to bring all food and water for the trip with him. Can he sleep in the car or make the trip in one day?
posted by namesarehard at 4:59 PM on March 31, 2020 [10 favorites]
Best answer: "Older" is a weird way to describe this woman, parent or no; we are all of us older than somebody, but she is not elderly. She is an adult who is scared of a frightening disease, as we all are. She is old enough to die from it if things go badly. So is her child. If she wants to be taken care of up close instead of from a distance, he will almost certainly catch it too. Who then will take care of him?
What he might do is make sure she's been in contact with her primary care doctor and arrange delivery of groceries and other necessities, which has to be done remotely anyway. If it were me, I would then set up twice-daily phone check-ins, with the understanding that if he can't get hold of her within a certain number of hours (allowing for sleep and not hearing the phone ring), he calls emergency services to come get her.
And, this is the real doozy: if the right thing to do is to not travel, how would it be best to frame it to the mom, who is scared and wants her son nearby?
Being scared is a reason to deserve deep sympathy and empathy and as much constant phone/video contact as can be managed. It is a reason for your kid to do the stressful work of figuring out all the insurance details and who to call in the worst-case scenario. but I don't think that being scared is a good reason to infect your son with something that might kill him.
A good son says, I would rather die than miss my last chance to see my mother again just because I was afraid. A good parent says I am terrified but if I have to die, at least I'll know my child is all right. The right thing for a son to do is offer to come, and the right thing for his mother to do is say No.
But if he must go, he must also stay wherever she is until all this is over--the justification for going to her doesn't justify the return trip. does she understand that's what she's asking?
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:27 PM on March 31, 2020 [31 favorites]
What he might do is make sure she's been in contact with her primary care doctor and arrange delivery of groceries and other necessities, which has to be done remotely anyway. If it were me, I would then set up twice-daily phone check-ins, with the understanding that if he can't get hold of her within a certain number of hours (allowing for sleep and not hearing the phone ring), he calls emergency services to come get her.
And, this is the real doozy: if the right thing to do is to not travel, how would it be best to frame it to the mom, who is scared and wants her son nearby?
Being scared is a reason to deserve deep sympathy and empathy and as much constant phone/video contact as can be managed. It is a reason for your kid to do the stressful work of figuring out all the insurance details and who to call in the worst-case scenario. but I don't think that being scared is a good reason to infect your son with something that might kill him.
A good son says, I would rather die than miss my last chance to see my mother again just because I was afraid. A good parent says I am terrified but if I have to die, at least I'll know my child is all right. The right thing for a son to do is offer to come, and the right thing for his mother to do is say No.
But if he must go, he must also stay wherever she is until all this is over--the justification for going to her doesn't justify the return trip. does she understand that's what she's asking?
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:27 PM on March 31, 2020 [31 favorites]
I would prepare and wait a bit to see if her symptoms worsen--there seems to be a significant onset period, so he doesn't need to leave instantly, and, honestly, what she reports could as easily be anxiety as anything else, especially if she doesn't have a fever. But, no, I would not leave an actually ill elderly parent on her own without care.
posted by praemunire at 5:28 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 5:28 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
(I agree with QOB, though--if he goes, he stays indefinitely.)
posted by praemunire at 5:29 PM on March 31, 2020
posted by praemunire at 5:29 PM on March 31, 2020
Yeah, a lot of us are scared right now. It's a scary time. And a lot of parents want their kids close by right now. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
posted by bluedaisy at 6:21 PM on March 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bluedaisy at 6:21 PM on March 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think it is important to consider the risk of potential infection that may exist for your friend's mom, e.g. Infected but Feeling Fine: The Unwitting Coronavirus Spreaders (NYT / reprint)
I'm personally doing a lot of brainstorming with my much older parents about how to adapt to the lockdowns and their high-risk conditions, including things like working within financial constraints to make it possible to stay at home as much as possible. There are community resources (211.org), there are delivery services, and there is a lot of technology available to make some of this a little easier. But it is very hard, and it is understandable to just want someone to sweep in and make it better.
In this instance, there is real risk, and we are learning more about the coronavirus every day, and perhaps the risk to your friend's mom is a key point to focus on, because even with testing, a ‘negative’ coronavirus test result doesn’t always mean you aren’t infected (WaPo / MSN).
posted by katra at 8:49 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
[...] experts kept returning to social distancing as the single best tool for stopping the chain of transmission in the long term — not lockdowns, necessarily, but canceling mass events, working from home when possible and closing schools.Whether the obvious point is helpful, e.g. that someone who has an upper middle class life is not actually without care or support, because they can obtain grocery and prescription deliveries, and possibly even a visiting nurse, as well as telehealth appointments with a doctor, and have regular phone and FaceTime/Skype communication with their child, may depend on the relationship dynamics and whether the parent is willing to also use their resources to obtain telehealth emotional support from a therapist to help manage their anxiety.
“We can’t assume that any of us are not potential vectors at any time,” Dr. Bergstrom said. “This is why even though I’m feeling great, and have felt great and haven’t been exposed to anybody with any symptoms of anything, that’s why it would be irresponsible of me to go out and about today.”
I'm personally doing a lot of brainstorming with my much older parents about how to adapt to the lockdowns and their high-risk conditions, including things like working within financial constraints to make it possible to stay at home as much as possible. There are community resources (211.org), there are delivery services, and there is a lot of technology available to make some of this a little easier. But it is very hard, and it is understandable to just want someone to sweep in and make it better.
In this instance, there is real risk, and we are learning more about the coronavirus every day, and perhaps the risk to your friend's mom is a key point to focus on, because even with testing, a ‘negative’ coronavirus test result doesn’t always mean you aren’t infected (WaPo / MSN).
posted by katra at 8:49 PM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
I mean, the reasons he should give her for not doing this are the straightforward recommendations from experts to not travel, the fact that he’d most likely get the virus from her if she has it, and lord knows when he could return to his normal life. And if she doesn’t have it, he could have it and infect her. (Is he truly “quarantined” or is he more self-isolating? I just don’t think anyone can say for sure they don’t have it and will not interact with a single droplet.)
The real question is: what sort of support is she looking for that he can’t do remotely? Is her motive more about illness, or anxiety? Especially given that if she does have this virus they’d need to stay far away from each other in the house.
I’m supporting my much older and high-risk parents by: calling, emailing, video chatting, sending supplies and money, reviewing our plans and preparations if anyone does get sick, exchanging details on insurance, doctors, etc.
posted by kapers at 9:39 PM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
The real question is: what sort of support is she looking for that he can’t do remotely? Is her motive more about illness, or anxiety? Especially given that if she does have this virus they’d need to stay far away from each other in the house.
I’m supporting my much older and high-risk parents by: calling, emailing, video chatting, sending supplies and money, reviewing our plans and preparations if anyone does get sick, exchanging details on insurance, doctors, etc.
posted by kapers at 9:39 PM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
For the purposes of this disease, they mean 65 and up when they say “elderly.” Not 50s.
posted by kapers at 9:44 PM on March 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by kapers at 9:44 PM on March 31, 2020 [4 favorites]
He also has to consider that he might have it and she might not.
posted by Mavri at 11:30 PM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 11:30 PM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: She has a slight cough and slight chest tightness. I’m not sure how him going there is going to help with mild symptoms like that. I get that they’re both concerned it could turn into something more, but for now she sounds fine and able to manage by herself. The son being there in person only serves to put him in a position to either catch it or give her something himself. Which obviously he shouldn’t do, he’s in quarantine! He’ll put himself, her and everyone he comes in contact with in his travels at risk.
It’s not that I’m not sympathetic but it sounds like the main concern right now is both their anxiety around this rather than her actual health. I think she should sit tight, order home delivery, talk to her son very often via FaceTime or whatever and if she’s still anxious get an online mental health consult. If her cough gets worse or she has other symptoms, cross that bridge when it comes.
posted by Jubey at 11:50 PM on March 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
It’s not that I’m not sympathetic but it sounds like the main concern right now is both their anxiety around this rather than her actual health. I think she should sit tight, order home delivery, talk to her son very often via FaceTime or whatever and if she’s still anxious get an online mental health consult. If her cough gets worse or she has other symptoms, cross that bridge when it comes.
posted by Jubey at 11:50 PM on March 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
I unfortunately want to mention that US hospitals have no vistitor policies if she does get sicker and need hospitalization, so his visit would be for if she is sick but not super sick.
I'd vote frequent phone/video check ins.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:50 AM on April 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'd vote frequent phone/video check ins.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:50 AM on April 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
We're all put out by social distancing restrictions. I'm in my third trimester of pregnancy and pretty devastated by everything that is going on. I'd love to see my mum, or at least know when I will be able to see her in person next, but if everyone started to make exceptions then we are, to put it bluntly, fucked.
I think that queenofbithynia's plan is definitely the way to go: What he might do is make sure she's been in contact with her primary care doctor and arrange delivery of groceries and other necessities, which has to be done remotely anyway. If it were me, I would then set up twice-daily phone check-ins, with the understanding that if he can't get hold of her within a certain number of hours (allowing for sleep and not hearing the phone ring), he calls emergency services to come get her.
Please tell your friend for the good of the whole community, please stay home.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:55 AM on April 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
I think that queenofbithynia's plan is definitely the way to go: What he might do is make sure she's been in contact with her primary care doctor and arrange delivery of groceries and other necessities, which has to be done remotely anyway. If it were me, I would then set up twice-daily phone check-ins, with the understanding that if he can't get hold of her within a certain number of hours (allowing for sleep and not hearing the phone ring), he calls emergency services to come get her.
Please tell your friend for the good of the whole community, please stay home.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:55 AM on April 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
There is no added risk to the community if your friend goes to their mother and then STAYS there until this whole situation resolves. Especially if the friend has already been quarantining and is unlikely to carry the virus back to their mother and avoids rest stops and packs their own food for their trip.
Social isolation doesn’t mean you can’t go to your sick parent, it just means you really need to consider how to do it safely.
Also, I hate to be the one to bring up horror stories, but the biggest lament coming out of Italy right now is that the hospitalized sick can’t have any visitors at all, can’t see their loved ones, and can’t even say goodbye. I don’t know if I’d chance not being present to help make medical decisions with my mom (like whether she should go to the hospital, whether she’s better helped at home with assistance).
Another consideration is how quickly your friend can reach their mother if need be. It is very likely that is is mild, but it could also become severe enough for her to need substantial care at home even if she never needs to be hospitalized.
posted by lydhre at 5:24 AM on April 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
Social isolation doesn’t mean you can’t go to your sick parent, it just means you really need to consider how to do it safely.
Also, I hate to be the one to bring up horror stories, but the biggest lament coming out of Italy right now is that the hospitalized sick can’t have any visitors at all, can’t see their loved ones, and can’t even say goodbye. I don’t know if I’d chance not being present to help make medical decisions with my mom (like whether she should go to the hospital, whether she’s better helped at home with assistance).
Another consideration is how quickly your friend can reach their mother if need be. It is very likely that is is mild, but it could also become severe enough for her to need substantial care at home even if she never needs to be hospitalized.
posted by lydhre at 5:24 AM on April 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
Best answer: There is added risk to the community if your friend leaves the house at all in his mother's community for the entire duration of this crisis, becoming a potential additional vector, or needs medical attention for any reason whatsoever unrelated to coronavirus, or needs supplies that are already hard to get, etc., etc. He will be an additional person stressing the resources of a community that is likely already struggling to handle its own.
That on its own doesn't mean he shouldn't go - there are of course some counterarguments, like if he's there to do some errand-running for her after spending two weeks in quarantine there, he can free up a local delivery slot for someone else, etc. But it's a real issue that he should take into consideration when weighing his options.
It's a hard choice in a time full of hard choices. In his shoes I'd do whatever I could to provide remote support - frequent check-ins, arranging deliveries, hooking her up with any local mutual aid support networks and offering to be a go-between with them, etc. I would not go unless she got significantly sicker such that she needed significant in-home medical care that could not be arranged for her remotely, and in the meanwhile I would go into 100% quarantine - no more deliveries, no more walks outside, no more nothing other than perhaps one stock-up trip right now - to be as safe as possible should the time come that I did feel I had absolutely no choice but to go.
posted by Stacey at 5:50 AM on April 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
That on its own doesn't mean he shouldn't go - there are of course some counterarguments, like if he's there to do some errand-running for her after spending two weeks in quarantine there, he can free up a local delivery slot for someone else, etc. But it's a real issue that he should take into consideration when weighing his options.
It's a hard choice in a time full of hard choices. In his shoes I'd do whatever I could to provide remote support - frequent check-ins, arranging deliveries, hooking her up with any local mutual aid support networks and offering to be a go-between with them, etc. I would not go unless she got significantly sicker such that she needed significant in-home medical care that could not be arranged for her remotely, and in the meanwhile I would go into 100% quarantine - no more deliveries, no more walks outside, no more nothing other than perhaps one stock-up trip right now - to be as safe as possible should the time come that I did feel I had absolutely no choice but to go.
posted by Stacey at 5:50 AM on April 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
He shouldn't go, and here's how he can explain it to her.
If he goes, he makes her situation more dangerous. It's entirely possible that she does not have COVID-19, and it's simultaneously possible that he does have it (symptom-free), and/or that he would be exposed to it during his 12-hour journey to her house. If that's the case, because they will be sharing a house, he could end up infecting her.
That's just a totally unacceptable risk, full stop. He shouldn't go, and she shouldn't want him to.
He can be a better son to his mother by staying where he is. He can research symptoms and the trajectory of the disease. He can ask her to send him contact information for her healthcare providers, and he can build an emergency plan for what to do if she starts to have trouble breathing. He can order her a thermometer and oximeter from Amazon, so she can track her temperature and her blood oxygen level. He can ensure she has an inhaler, especially if she has a history of asthma.
Those are the important things he can do to help her.
If his mother's a narcissist she'll try to make him feel guilty about not going, but he still shouldn't go.
posted by Susan PG at 4:22 PM on April 1, 2020
If he goes, he makes her situation more dangerous. It's entirely possible that she does not have COVID-19, and it's simultaneously possible that he does have it (symptom-free), and/or that he would be exposed to it during his 12-hour journey to her house. If that's the case, because they will be sharing a house, he could end up infecting her.
That's just a totally unacceptable risk, full stop. He shouldn't go, and she shouldn't want him to.
He can be a better son to his mother by staying where he is. He can research symptoms and the trajectory of the disease. He can ask her to send him contact information for her healthcare providers, and he can build an emergency plan for what to do if she starts to have trouble breathing. He can order her a thermometer and oximeter from Amazon, so she can track her temperature and her blood oxygen level. He can ensure she has an inhaler, especially if she has a history of asthma.
Those are the important things he can do to help her.
If his mother's a narcissist she'll try to make him feel guilty about not going, but he still shouldn't go.
posted by Susan PG at 4:22 PM on April 1, 2020
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It it were me and I had no conditions that make me vulnerable like asthma, etc, I'd go for sure. Large home means she can have a sick room and isolate a bit.
posted by ReluctantViking at 2:17 PM on March 31, 2020 [4 favorites]