I need next steps for usable internet in multi-story house
March 9, 2020 11:31 AM Subscribe
I need some kind of device that makes my internet usable in the third floor of my townhouse and it's not a "wifi range extender" because I bought one and it was worse than useless. From my research I think what I need is a "Wifi mesh network" but it's not clear to me what I actually need to buy and how I would set it up. Has anybody already done this and can tell me what they did?
My house is a narrow 3-story townhouse. I have the modem/router-in-one on the second floor towards the back, and I need the internet to work on the third floor near the front. I can do Netflix streaming pretty well to the TV there but my video calls for work are unstable.
My ATT plan is "Internet 1000" whatever that means (1000 mpbs per second with "IPUB Bolt On Unlimited DTV/HSI" and I recently "upgraded" to the new kind from the old kind but I forget exactly what I upgraded to and I can't find it on my account page.
I'm not sure what other background I should provide so please ask and I will follow up.
Thanks!
My house is a narrow 3-story townhouse. I have the modem/router-in-one on the second floor towards the back, and I need the internet to work on the third floor near the front. I can do Netflix streaming pretty well to the TV there but my video calls for work are unstable.
My ATT plan is "Internet 1000" whatever that means (1000 mpbs per second with "IPUB Bolt On Unlimited DTV/HSI" and I recently "upgraded" to the new kind from the old kind but I forget exactly what I upgraded to and I can't find it on my account page.
I'm not sure what other background I should provide so please ask and I will follow up.
Thanks!
We use an eero wifi mesh network. One unit plugs into (the switch that is plugged into) our cable router. One repeater is plugged in by our back door, the other in the back bedroom. This gave us better coverage in the bedroom (our TV struggled to stream) and across our back yard (on the other side of both repeaters). TP-Link also makes several mesh systems that are cheaper then eero and they aren't owned by Amazon.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:41 AM on March 9, 2020
posted by Lyn Never at 11:41 AM on March 9, 2020
Eero is one brand, the Google Wifi or Nest Wifi (Nest Wifi is a newer version of the Google Wifi) does the same thing. You just buy the product and install it following the directions. Basically the devices have a wireless connection with each other and a separate connection with your devices to improve signal quality.
One issue with any of these devices is that the antennas on all wifi access points are designed to work better horizontally rather than vertically as this is the assumed layout for houses. So in your case you'll want the remote access points to be as close as possible to the base station that's connected to your ISP gateway (presumably directly above if possible).
posted by GuyZero at 11:46 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
One issue with any of these devices is that the antennas on all wifi access points are designed to work better horizontally rather than vertically as this is the assumed layout for houses. So in your case you'll want the remote access points to be as close as possible to the base station that's connected to your ISP gateway (presumably directly above if possible).
posted by GuyZero at 11:46 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Netgear's mesh product is the Orbi, if you want to compare brands. We use it here. Our main wifi router is on one floor with a single satellite upstairs. It was a cinch to set up and has been bulletproof.
posted by jquinby at 11:52 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jquinby at 11:52 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
...and when I say a cinch, I started using it after using Apple airports in a wired-backhaul configuration (main unit downstairs with an ethernet connection to the one up stairs). We got out of that when Apple got out of the wifi business. I was skeptical of the mesh networks, but was willing to give one a try. It was a toss-up between the Orbi and the Eero; I went with Orbi because that's what Best Buy had in stock when I was ready to pick something up. It was extremely simple to set up.
posted by jquinby at 11:55 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jquinby at 11:55 AM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I set up a Google Wifi mesh system and it was super easy. For an older house I have also used powerline internet, though it didn't play well with my (newer) house's breaker system.
posted by Comrade_robot at 11:56 AM on March 9, 2020
posted by Comrade_robot at 11:56 AM on March 9, 2020
An issue I have with a lot of today's routers is that the antennas are all internal to the device and there is no way to adjust their orientation, aside from tilting the entire device, or even to see what their orientation is.
That said, I assume they must have at least one antenna oriented at least partially for vertical radiation, since many homes have more than one level. A fully vertical antenna radiates largely horizontally and there is little to no signal directly above or below it (this area is called "the null").
posted by kindall at 12:00 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
That said, I assume they must have at least one antenna oriented at least partially for vertical radiation, since many homes have more than one level. A fully vertical antenna radiates largely horizontally and there is little to no signal directly above or below it (this area is called "the null").
posted by kindall at 12:00 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have the eero and have had great success with it!
I can't tell from your details if you have the AT&T fiber optic internet or the regular cable internet. I have the AT&T fiber and the guy who installed it told me that they get the fewest follow up questions/problems with the eero.
He also said the Linksys mesh network product (I think it's called Velop) does not play well with the fiber internet system. I don't understand the technical details behind what he told me, just repeating it to you in case it is helpful.
I love the eero but I have resigned myself to domination/assimilation by Amazon and I don't care anymore. YMMV.
posted by mccxxiii at 12:05 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I can't tell from your details if you have the AT&T fiber optic internet or the regular cable internet. I have the AT&T fiber and the guy who installed it told me that they get the fewest follow up questions/problems with the eero.
He also said the Linksys mesh network product (I think it's called Velop) does not play well with the fiber internet system. I don't understand the technical details behind what he told me, just repeating it to you in case it is helpful.
I love the eero but I have resigned myself to domination/assimilation by Amazon and I don't care anymore. YMMV.
posted by mccxxiii at 12:05 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Better than mesh is to have multiple wireless access points which are connected via wired ethernet cable, but few people's homes are set up that way.
Mesh isn't at great as they advertise. Remember that your mesh connection points _still_ need to communicate with each other wirelessly. You don't put your mesh units in a place that has bad connectivity. You have to put them so each mesh unit has a good connection to another mesh unit.
I have a three pack of Google Wifi. I spent quite a bit of time moving units around and running speed tests because moving one of the units 50 feet or so would result in a drastically worse connection.
I also noted that the mesh units, individually, provide worse connectivity than my old access point with its plethora of external antennas.
posted by meowzilla at 12:08 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Mesh isn't at great as they advertise. Remember that your mesh connection points _still_ need to communicate with each other wirelessly. You don't put your mesh units in a place that has bad connectivity. You have to put them so each mesh unit has a good connection to another mesh unit.
I have a three pack of Google Wifi. I spent quite a bit of time moving units around and running speed tests because moving one of the units 50 feet or so would result in a drastically worse connection.
I also noted that the mesh units, individually, provide worse connectivity than my old access point with its plethora of external antennas.
posted by meowzilla at 12:08 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I also noted that the mesh units, individually, provide worse connectivity than my old access point with its plethora of external antennas.
Those antennas are more for show than anything else. The one thing mesh systems will definitely do better than a bunch of individual APs is handoff - most consumer APs don't do any handoff and when you move from room to room you're tend to remain connected to the previous weaker signal unless you cycle wifi off and back on.
posted by GuyZero at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Those antennas are more for show than anything else. The one thing mesh systems will definitely do better than a bunch of individual APs is handoff - most consumer APs don't do any handoff and when you move from room to room you're tend to remain connected to the previous weaker signal unless you cycle wifi off and back on.
posted by GuyZero at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I would go with multiple access points, as meowzilla suggests above. An access point (which can be called an AP or WAP) is essentially a wifi router that's been set into AP mode.
In a nutshell: Your AT&T modem and Wifi router are both routers. One of those routers, it doesn't matter which as long as only one of them does it, has the job of issuing addresses to any machine that connects to your network, wireless or not. That service is called DHCP. When you add a new wifi router, presumably wired from your third floor to your AT&T modem, you add it in Access Point Mode (a simple, top-level setting that's part of the router setup) so that it disables its built-in DHCP (which, if left enabled, would create networking conflicts). Your devices on the top floor will connect to it as the strongest signal, and with some configuration, it should be possible to arrange handoff.
One thing to watch out for Mesh networks is that they sometimes grab one spectrum for themselves and require connection through the other. I've dealt with at least one mesh setup that wouldn't allow connections over 5GHz because that's what they used to talk to each other, so only 2.4GHz connections were allowed.
posted by Sunburnt at 12:42 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
In a nutshell: Your AT&T modem and Wifi router are both routers. One of those routers, it doesn't matter which as long as only one of them does it, has the job of issuing addresses to any machine that connects to your network, wireless or not. That service is called DHCP. When you add a new wifi router, presumably wired from your third floor to your AT&T modem, you add it in Access Point Mode (a simple, top-level setting that's part of the router setup) so that it disables its built-in DHCP (which, if left enabled, would create networking conflicts). Your devices on the top floor will connect to it as the strongest signal, and with some configuration, it should be possible to arrange handoff.
One thing to watch out for Mesh networks is that they sometimes grab one spectrum for themselves and require connection through the other. I've dealt with at least one mesh setup that wouldn't allow connections over 5GHz because that's what they used to talk to each other, so only 2.4GHz connections were allowed.
posted by Sunburnt at 12:42 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Nothing is ever, ever, no matter how much money you throw at it, going to be as reliable as multiple access points connected via a fast wired connection. But the best way to get that wired connection depends wildly on your physical setup. Do you have anything, even coax or phone cables, running between the floors? Would it be possible to poke a hole in the floor or ceiling and run cable through there? People can give general advice, like having at least one AP per floor, but it's hard. One thing for sure is that you're almost certainly not getting your money's worth on a fast Internet package if you don't have corresponding fast WiFi. But it's tough because you really need 5GHz for fast speeds, but it doesn't travel as well.
The newer mesh networks are pricier but better. Ones like the Eero are notably better if you go mesh-only because they have multiple 5GHz radios, so they can talk and listen at the same time. All mesh networks are not created equal.
posted by wnissen at 2:04 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
The newer mesh networks are pricier but better. Ones like the Eero are notably better if you go mesh-only because they have multiple 5GHz radios, so they can talk and listen at the same time. All mesh networks are not created equal.
posted by wnissen at 2:04 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
You may find this article to be useful in wrapping your head around the problem. It gets reasonably technical, but should be readable even by non-enthusiasts, and they've turned their conclusions into a simple set of Rules.
posted by aramaic at 2:31 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aramaic at 2:31 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for this great info so far everyone.
I do have a coax outlet and a phone outlet in the room, can I use those for hard wiring? Is that it's own question?
posted by bleep at 3:29 PM on March 9, 2020
I do have a coax outlet and a phone outlet in the room, can I use those for hard wiring? Is that it's own question?
posted by bleep at 3:29 PM on March 9, 2020
A phone outlet could maybe be repurposed into an ethernet drop depending on how it's wired. There are ethernet-over-coax adapters but again it depends on how it's wired plus you'll need an extra device on each end.
Not-crappy mesh systems use one 5GHz channel for backhaul and a different one for local link + a 2.4 GHz local link. They'll also usually use wide channels for the backhaul so there's sufficient bandwidth for all the connected devices. But you still do have to play with locating them properly although it's not that hard and it generally just works.
posted by GuyZero at 3:49 PM on March 9, 2020
Not-crappy mesh systems use one 5GHz channel for backhaul and a different one for local link + a 2.4 GHz local link. They'll also usually use wide channels for the backhaul so there's sufficient bandwidth for all the connected devices. But you still do have to play with locating them properly although it's not that hard and it generally just works.
posted by GuyZero at 3:49 PM on March 9, 2020
as someone that works in IT I don't want to deal with "roll your own" when I get home. I just bought the Google nest and two repeaters. Took me 15 minutes to set it all up and it just worked.
posted by noloveforned at 4:35 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by noloveforned at 4:35 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Ethernet over coax adaptors are reliable and fast. You can hedge your bets a bit by buying a mesh setup to see how it works, and then adding the Ethernet over coax if mesh by itself isn't enough.
posted by wnissen at 5:04 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by wnissen at 5:04 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you have coax cable running to at least one room on every floor and you have access to the point where cable enters the house but before it splits, you can set up a MoCA network. This is essentially Ethernet over coax cable. You can google MoCA and find articles and videos about how to set it up. Using a filter, a couple adapters, new high frequency splitters, your existing router and a range extender, you can have two access points that are hard wired together. Give both access points the same network name and password and your devices will automatically jump between them.
I have this running in my house and also set one up at my in-laws’ house. It is absolutely trouble free once it is set up. It’s been running at my house for two years without issue, and five months at the in-laws’ house. They haven’t called once for support in that entire time.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have this running in my house and also set one up at my in-laws’ house. It is absolutely trouble free once it is set up. It’s been running at my house for two years without issue, and five months at the in-laws’ house. They haven’t called once for support in that entire time.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
You would be far better off figuring out a way to wire one or more extra APs. If you have coax wires in the wall, you can use a set of MoCA 2.0 adapters to bridge between the APs.
There are some by Netgear sold on Amazon.
posted by wierdo at 7:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are some by Netgear sold on Amazon.
posted by wierdo at 7:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I got this fancy Netgear range extender for my 2 story 2500 sq foot home where the router and cable modem are at one end of the house and my home office is at the other end. Although spendy, it works great. I tried the Orbi (I believe) and couldn't get it to work. Whatever you end up going with, I would recommend getting it from someplace you can return it in case it doesn't work and you want to try something different.
posted by elmay at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2020
posted by elmay at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2020
I recently got an eero Pro setup (the most expensive pack with three full eero units, not Beacons). The benefit of the Pro (as opposed the plain eero) is that it has three radios: two (one each 5 GHz and 2.8 GHz) for communicating with clients, and another for communicating with the other eeros. This makes their max throughput is about double compared to the non-Pro because the radio you're connected to isn't immediately busy sending the packet it just received from you back to base.
Our house isn't that big but it is surprisingly hard to get WiFi throughout it. (One reason is that I can't easily locate my networking gear in the center of the house.) I had bought a couple of Netgear extenders but they proved unreliable, and they don't hand off.
I put the eero system in bridge mode and plugged it into my existing router so I wouldn't have to redo all my networking setup. Turned the 5 GHz off on the router and gave the eero the same SSID and password. Kept the router's 2.8 GHz on since I had a printer hooked up to it and it would have been a pain to move it to a different SSID.
And everything. Just. Worked. 4-5 bars throughout the house and 150 Mbps (our Internet connection's top speed) to every device.
The eero Pro setup I got is probably overkill. It is regularly on sale for $400 (from $500) which is significantly less expensive than most competing three-radio offerings. But I'm glad I spent it. It should cover us if we move to a bigger house.
posted by kindall at 7:40 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Our house isn't that big but it is surprisingly hard to get WiFi throughout it. (One reason is that I can't easily locate my networking gear in the center of the house.) I had bought a couple of Netgear extenders but they proved unreliable, and they don't hand off.
I put the eero system in bridge mode and plugged it into my existing router so I wouldn't have to redo all my networking setup. Turned the 5 GHz off on the router and gave the eero the same SSID and password. Kept the router's 2.8 GHz on since I had a printer hooked up to it and it would have been a pain to move it to a different SSID.
And everything. Just. Worked. 4-5 bars throughout the house and 150 Mbps (our Internet connection's top speed) to every device.
The eero Pro setup I got is probably overkill. It is regularly on sale for $400 (from $500) which is significantly less expensive than most competing three-radio offerings. But I'm glad I spent it. It should cover us if we move to a bigger house.
posted by kindall at 7:40 AM on June 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bleep at 11:36 AM on March 9, 2020