Old home, majorly deteriorated peeling paint, blase landlord
March 6, 2020 5:01 AM Subscribe
Just went to look at a house I planned on renting, and there is a very significant amount of chipping/peeling paint throughout the kitchen. House was built in the 1950's, lead-based paint is extremely likely. Should I bail?
Next month I'll be moving to a new city in a new state (KY) and have been making arrangements to rent a house owned by an acquaintance, who doesn't reside there but has been slowly renovating over the last few years. The house was built in the 1950's, and the owner freely disclosed that it still definitely needs a lot of cosmetic work, but he felt that it was reasonably habitable, and sent me photos to give me a general impression of what to expect (i.e. there are still large holes in some of the walls from a plumber who looks like he kind of savaged the walls to get to the pipes).
I drove down yesterday to take measurements and photos, and was dismayed to see that the paint in the kitchen was significantly deteriorated, chipping and peeling away in large chunks on the walls and ceiling, with a few small piles of white powder along the wall where it seems like the drywall or whatever got dinged at some point.
So... aggressively peeling paint in the food prep area was not something the owner mentioned, nor was it visible in his photos, and I am now troubled about (I presume) lead-based paint dust in the house. It sounds like a lot of the work he's done so far has been either diy or by somewhat sketchy contractors, and it really doesn't sound like lead contamination has even been on anyone's mind throughout the renovation process. I chatted with the guy who rents the basement unit but used to rent upstairs area, and when I mentioned the hardwood floors looked nice, he said they were a huge improvement over the old carpet that got torn out last month, which had been giving him serious allergy/asthma issues when he lived upstairs... although he was basically indifferent about any hazard the peeling paint might represent (Quote: "Eh, I'm still alive.")
I don't plan on eating paint chips, but I'm concerned that the degree of paint deterioration + the "casual" approach to renovation + recently torn up carpet (which may have disturbed paint on baseboards) might all add up to a hazardous amount of ambient paint dust. So my question is, given that it's just me, I have no kids, am not pregnant, am not trying to become pregnant etc, is all this enough of a red flag for me to be seriously dubious about environmental safety, or is this more or less tolerable and manageable with, like, extremely frequent surface cleaning?
Next month I'll be moving to a new city in a new state (KY) and have been making arrangements to rent a house owned by an acquaintance, who doesn't reside there but has been slowly renovating over the last few years. The house was built in the 1950's, and the owner freely disclosed that it still definitely needs a lot of cosmetic work, but he felt that it was reasonably habitable, and sent me photos to give me a general impression of what to expect (i.e. there are still large holes in some of the walls from a plumber who looks like he kind of savaged the walls to get to the pipes).
I drove down yesterday to take measurements and photos, and was dismayed to see that the paint in the kitchen was significantly deteriorated, chipping and peeling away in large chunks on the walls and ceiling, with a few small piles of white powder along the wall where it seems like the drywall or whatever got dinged at some point.
So... aggressively peeling paint in the food prep area was not something the owner mentioned, nor was it visible in his photos, and I am now troubled about (I presume) lead-based paint dust in the house. It sounds like a lot of the work he's done so far has been either diy or by somewhat sketchy contractors, and it really doesn't sound like lead contamination has even been on anyone's mind throughout the renovation process. I chatted with the guy who rents the basement unit but used to rent upstairs area, and when I mentioned the hardwood floors looked nice, he said they were a huge improvement over the old carpet that got torn out last month, which had been giving him serious allergy/asthma issues when he lived upstairs... although he was basically indifferent about any hazard the peeling paint might represent (Quote: "Eh, I'm still alive.")
I don't plan on eating paint chips, but I'm concerned that the degree of paint deterioration + the "casual" approach to renovation + recently torn up carpet (which may have disturbed paint on baseboards) might all add up to a hazardous amount of ambient paint dust. So my question is, given that it's just me, I have no kids, am not pregnant, am not trying to become pregnant etc, is all this enough of a red flag for me to be seriously dubious about environmental safety, or is this more or less tolerable and manageable with, like, extremely frequent surface cleaning?
Lead paint or not, the whole place sounds like a nightmare. I'd be looking pretty hard for alternative housing.
posted by rd45 at 5:47 AM on March 6, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by rd45 at 5:47 AM on March 6, 2020 [14 favorites]
So regardless of the lead content of the paint... how do you think this landlord is going to do if something breaks and needs fixing?
posted by bile and syntax at 6:06 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 6:06 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
omg BAIL. Seriously! This person will be a nightmare landlord. You don't need that in your life.
posted by EllaEm at 6:21 AM on March 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by EllaEm at 6:21 AM on March 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
I wouldn't worry too much. Even the EPA has relaxed their recommendations vis-a-vis lead abatement procedures. Anecdotally, I rehabbed a house with lead paint (including sanding, demolition and stripping of lead paint) taking only slap-dash dust control precautions and living in the house for most of the rehab. My lead levels are fine. Lead poisoning was a big issue for calcium deficient children living in areas where the soil was grossly contaminated with lead, but that's not the case here.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:25 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:25 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I might not worry about the paint (I wouldn't for me, but am not sure about pets; I'd do research there) but I sure would not want to deal with living in a house that is still undergoing renovation, at a snail's pace and by sketchy contractors. In your shoes, if I really needed a place to land in a new city, I might consider this but only if it were very cheap and very temporary; say, a three-month launching pad to get my bearings and look for a real place to live.
posted by Stacey at 6:35 AM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 6:35 AM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
In general, the lead paint isn't as a big a concern for adults as it is for children under the age of 6, due to the maturity/formation of brain. And the lead test kits aren't really great for identifying all the lead paint in the house (as lead paint may have been painted over and kits won't detect that well.) It can tell you if there is lead paint, but negative results don't guarantee there is no lead present.
I wouldn't suggest having the landlord remove the paint himself - it could leave a lot of dust around if he doesn't do the work thoughtfully.The dust can get trapped in radiators, fans, gaps in the floorboards, or curtains that may not be obvious. Also, the landlord may strip off some paint and expose more underlying lead paint that initially detected by the scraps.
Sealing in place would be a better option if you're not going to do the lead abatement properly (read: expensively.)
What I mean is that you could basically just paint over the peeling bits without stripping wood first to keep it from flaking. It wouldn't look perfect, but it would keep the dust down to a minimum. At the very least, you could do that work on high contact areas (like door frames and window frames) where things are opened/closed/banged into them on a regular basis.
I think the bigger concern is what the peeling paint indicates about the house, rather than the peeling paint. The allergy carpets, the damaged walls, and the required 'cosmetic work' really don't speak to someone who cares about the property. There may be a lot more hidden problems that weren't addressed by proper maintenance. Those issues may not seem like a big deal to anyone not living there, but could be a literal or figurative headache for you.
Source: Went through lead abatement process on my condo and, eventually, my current house. Company that did abatement on current home really botched it, so learned a lot about the subject as a result.
posted by TofuGolem at 6:53 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't suggest having the landlord remove the paint himself - it could leave a lot of dust around if he doesn't do the work thoughtfully.The dust can get trapped in radiators, fans, gaps in the floorboards, or curtains that may not be obvious. Also, the landlord may strip off some paint and expose more underlying lead paint that initially detected by the scraps.
Sealing in place would be a better option if you're not going to do the lead abatement properly (read: expensively.)
What I mean is that you could basically just paint over the peeling bits without stripping wood first to keep it from flaking. It wouldn't look perfect, but it would keep the dust down to a minimum. At the very least, you could do that work on high contact areas (like door frames and window frames) where things are opened/closed/banged into them on a regular basis.
I think the bigger concern is what the peeling paint indicates about the house, rather than the peeling paint. The allergy carpets, the damaged walls, and the required 'cosmetic work' really don't speak to someone who cares about the property. There may be a lot more hidden problems that weren't addressed by proper maintenance. Those issues may not seem like a big deal to anyone not living there, but could be a literal or figurative headache for you.
Source: Went through lead abatement process on my condo and, eventually, my current house. Company that did abatement on current home really botched it, so learned a lot about the subject as a result.
posted by TofuGolem at 6:53 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Uh, given that the EPA is being gagged I would not say that the fact their recommendations were relaxed means a damn thing. Also, it's completely incorrect that lead poisoning was only an issue for "calcium deficient children" - it's dangerous for all children and soil exposure is most definitely not the only path for lead-related damage to children. Exhibit A: Flint, Michigan. Lead is definitely more harmful for kids than adults, but it's not great for you to be eating it (which you could be, if it's in your food prep area), and if you're living in a lead-dust covered environment do know that you're tracking it out into the world via your clothes, shoes, etc. Likely not in the quantity needed to harm kids, but still. Also, lead is stored in your body, so if you are ever going to be pregnant or breastfeed it could be transmitted to your baby that way.
I would bail on that place. It sounds terrible and that landlord is going to be completely unhelpful when anything is broken.
posted by john_snow at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I would bail on that place. It sounds terrible and that landlord is going to be completely unhelpful when anything is broken.
posted by john_snow at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I work in environmental consulting, not my area of specialty, standard disclaimers, etc.
Lead paint is absolutely a health risk, and eating lead paint dust is the biggest risk factor (it enters your bloodstream faster/at higher levels than inhaling it does). It's less of a risk for adults because it's a dose to body mass comparison, but living in a peeling lead paint environment is not good for adults, and it's downright dangerous for children. Children are more at risk because a) smaller body mass and b) typically heavier direct contact/digestion quantities as little kids are often touching the floor/areas where dust has settled and putting their hands in their mouths.
So then there's the issue of if this house actually has lead paint. Chipping paint and house age does not automatically mean lead-based paint was used, and while it would be extremely likely in the city I live in, I know nothing about the area this house is in. If you're still considering this living situation after the other comments, ask the landlord a) to pay for a lead wipe test and b) if there was any disclosure documentation when he bought the house (this is a requirement where I live, not sure about your area, and it's also to be taken with a very large grain of salt because it's disclosing known use, and prior owner may not have been aware).
If the lead wipe test comes back negative, I wouldn't be concerned about lead (ensuring of course that all visible paint layers are sampled). There may be a lead paint base, but so many layers of paint over it that it's just not part of what's chipping. If there is an unexposed lead paint base, it still may become a future issue if the landlord decides to sand and repaint while you're living there.
Personally I wouldn't rent this house because the landlord is only going to get worse and I wouldn't want to live in a construction site. But if you get the paint checked and do rent it, you should be fine with the following:
-thorough dusting and pre-cleaning of the entire place
-regular cleaning of the kitchen before you cook
-if you leave fruit/veggies on the counter, clean with a veggie wash prior to use
-run the tap for a few minutes prior to drinking in case of lead pipes (which is an arguably larger potential risk than lead-based paint to an adult, and is good practice for a number of reasons other than lead pipes)
posted by DoubleLune at 8:48 AM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lead paint is absolutely a health risk, and eating lead paint dust is the biggest risk factor (it enters your bloodstream faster/at higher levels than inhaling it does). It's less of a risk for adults because it's a dose to body mass comparison, but living in a peeling lead paint environment is not good for adults, and it's downright dangerous for children. Children are more at risk because a) smaller body mass and b) typically heavier direct contact/digestion quantities as little kids are often touching the floor/areas where dust has settled and putting their hands in their mouths.
So then there's the issue of if this house actually has lead paint. Chipping paint and house age does not automatically mean lead-based paint was used, and while it would be extremely likely in the city I live in, I know nothing about the area this house is in. If you're still considering this living situation after the other comments, ask the landlord a) to pay for a lead wipe test and b) if there was any disclosure documentation when he bought the house (this is a requirement where I live, not sure about your area, and it's also to be taken with a very large grain of salt because it's disclosing known use, and prior owner may not have been aware).
If the lead wipe test comes back negative, I wouldn't be concerned about lead (ensuring of course that all visible paint layers are sampled). There may be a lead paint base, but so many layers of paint over it that it's just not part of what's chipping. If there is an unexposed lead paint base, it still may become a future issue if the landlord decides to sand and repaint while you're living there.
Personally I wouldn't rent this house because the landlord is only going to get worse and I wouldn't want to live in a construction site. But if you get the paint checked and do rent it, you should be fine with the following:
-thorough dusting and pre-cleaning of the entire place
-regular cleaning of the kitchen before you cook
-if you leave fruit/veggies on the counter, clean with a veggie wash prior to use
-run the tap for a few minutes prior to drinking in case of lead pipes (which is an arguably larger potential risk than lead-based paint to an adult, and is good practice for a number of reasons other than lead pipes)
posted by DoubleLune at 8:48 AM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
A friend has significant health impairment due to lead from renovating an old house. Ask the landlord to have the place cleaned (TSP/Spic-N-Span is recommended) and painted. Once it has been cleaned, any old risk is mostly okay. The new risk is primarily form opening & closing windows - paint on window frames gets ground into powder and enters your environment. I bought an old house, but it had replacement windows, and we painted. Maine requires lead abatement, not sure about other states.
posted by theora55 at 9:51 AM on March 6, 2020
posted by theora55 at 9:51 AM on March 6, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kdar at 5:28 AM on March 6, 2020 [3 favorites]