Behavior Help with My 1st-Grade Daughter
February 14, 2020 10:57 AM Subscribe
We are having a lot of behavior issues at school with my daughter. We recently had her tested for gifted classes, and her test scores were very high, high enough to enter the program...but she was not admitted into the program because she does not work independently in class.
Here is an example of communication I received from her teacher:
This week, the students have been researching U.S. symbols of their choice. I passed out a one-page assignment to write the names of the U.S. symbol under the picture, and gave them a word bank on the board. I also read it continually throughout class. She had 30 minutes to put the 9 names under the pictures but didn't finish. She appeared to be looking at the iPad of the girl next to her who had finished all of her assignments for the week. I kept reminding her to stay focused and gave her a privacy folder in hopes she could keep her eyes inside that and it would block out distractions some, but it wasn't much help. I also have to give her more reminders than the other children about her organization of folders, papers, books and supplies. Can you make any suggestions for me?
She is also distracted at home. I feel like I don't know what to do to help her. Right now, she loves school, but I'm worried that she will eventually start hating it because she will be labeled as a bad kid.
I'm also not entirely convinced this is related to her being gifted. Sometimes I think I'm just not equipping her properly to behave in school. I was a very compliant child, so I often have no clue how to parent her.
If she needs help, I want to be able to give that to her or get it from someone else.
Here is an example of communication I received from her teacher:
This week, the students have been researching U.S. symbols of their choice. I passed out a one-page assignment to write the names of the U.S. symbol under the picture, and gave them a word bank on the board. I also read it continually throughout class. She had 30 minutes to put the 9 names under the pictures but didn't finish. She appeared to be looking at the iPad of the girl next to her who had finished all of her assignments for the week. I kept reminding her to stay focused and gave her a privacy folder in hopes she could keep her eyes inside that and it would block out distractions some, but it wasn't much help. I also have to give her more reminders than the other children about her organization of folders, papers, books and supplies. Can you make any suggestions for me?
She is also distracted at home. I feel like I don't know what to do to help her. Right now, she loves school, but I'm worried that she will eventually start hating it because she will be labeled as a bad kid.
I'm also not entirely convinced this is related to her being gifted. Sometimes I think I'm just not equipping her properly to behave in school. I was a very compliant child, so I often have no clue how to parent her.
If she needs help, I want to be able to give that to her or get it from someone else.
So yeah, being gifted and having ADHD is super common. We dealt with both with my son, who ended up being very successful in school, home, and everywhere else with lots of help. I'd recommend getting an evaluation.
posted by cooker girl at 11:06 AM on February 14, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 11:06 AM on February 14, 2020 [11 favorites]
I was an absolute horrorshow in school.
What you described above with your kid? Was exactly how I acted in 1st Grade. I remember spending an hour trying to write my name 10 times, only to give up in a temper tantrum. Yet I was also one of the first ones to master reading.
Turns out that I had a speech delay, and also ADHD with an Auditory Processing Disorder. I am also possibly Autistic. I'd get your kid evaluated for ADHD and/or Learning Difficulties.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
What you described above with your kid? Was exactly how I acted in 1st Grade. I remember spending an hour trying to write my name 10 times, only to give up in a temper tantrum. Yet I was also one of the first ones to master reading.
Turns out that I had a speech delay, and also ADHD with an Auditory Processing Disorder. I am also possibly Autistic. I'd get your kid evaluated for ADHD and/or Learning Difficulties.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:09 AM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
This sounds exactly like my kid, who is now almost 12. Up until 6th grade she was very distracted and forgetful, but is very smart. We had her evaluated for ADD (she's not hyper), which was basically the pediatrician providing questionnaires for the parents and teachers who work with her. All of us had very similar answers with respect to her forgetfulness and distractedness, and that she was very well behaved and not disruptive in any way. She took adderall for about 6 months but it didn't seem to help. We were very dilgent about sticking to a schedule when she got home from school, that she has a snack and short break but then gets to doing homework. It was a constant struggle for her to remember to hand in completed assignments. Then about half way through 6th grade she improved a lot. Granted, middle school is more demanding and requires more independence, so she really had to work at it. Also, middle school is better for the parents to monitor what assignments are late because they list it all online so I can see what needs handed in. Having that tool helped me help her to learn how to check the list online. Her grades were much better last quarter and I see her getting her homework done without being reminded, although she still occasionally forgets to hand them in. Oh, and she hasn't taken addrall since last year.
TLDR My kid seems to be growing out of it and has shown marked improvement in independence but it was a struggle for years to keep her on track.
posted by waving at 11:15 AM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
TLDR My kid seems to be growing out of it and has shown marked improvement in independence but it was a struggle for years to keep her on track.
posted by waving at 11:15 AM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Was she born in the early months of the year?
If so, it might just be that although she's administratively old enough for first grade, she's not quite developmentally ready for it even though her cognitive skills are well ahead of the pace.
The older kids in any given class generally do better. This is an effect that persists all the way from first grade to college. If your daughter's birthday is indeed early in the year and you can find a way to give her an extra year of preschool with a view to having another crack at first grade next year, you'd be setting her up for life.
posted by flabdablet at 11:29 AM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
If so, it might just be that although she's administratively old enough for first grade, she's not quite developmentally ready for it even though her cognitive skills are well ahead of the pace.
The older kids in any given class generally do better. This is an effect that persists all the way from first grade to college. If your daughter's birthday is indeed early in the year and you can find a way to give her an extra year of preschool with a view to having another crack at first grade next year, you'd be setting her up for life.
posted by flabdablet at 11:29 AM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
Some kids in a first grade class are getting to use an iPad and the others are expected to just continue on with their work? I'm not the teacher here, but I can't see that being very conducive to helping them focus. Those things are crazy distracting for kids at this age. It's like trying to have a conversation with someone at a Planet Hollywood.
posted by ODiV at 11:33 AM on February 14, 2020 [50 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 11:33 AM on February 14, 2020 [50 favorites]
She is me. I am not diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, but I was very easily distracted as a kid, because I had usually figured out the assignment within a few minutes and then spent the rest of the time wondering what was wrong with me or the world, since it didn't make sense to spend 30 minutes to combine 9 names and pictures. I always imagined there must be something more difficult that I hadn't figured out and I actually worried a lot about that. That would explain why she was looking at the other girl's iPad. (Why can they even have iPads in class!?!?)
I have helped my daughters (with more or less success) by telling them that yes, that is the assignment, there is no secret meaning. And yes, you just have to repeat what was in your homework, and then you are good. The next level is then that they are bored, and specially my youngest zoned out of school completely. But if you can just persuade them to do the required stuff, you may get a better dialogue with the school.
Alternatively, maybe you should look for a Steiner or Freinet type school where the kids learn more individually. I went to one for a year and was very confused, so I didn't choose it for my kids, but I have regretted I didn't find one for the youngest. I can see how a more individual approach would have stimulated her much more, with better results.
posted by mumimor at 11:36 AM on February 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
I have helped my daughters (with more or less success) by telling them that yes, that is the assignment, there is no secret meaning. And yes, you just have to repeat what was in your homework, and then you are good. The next level is then that they are bored, and specially my youngest zoned out of school completely. But if you can just persuade them to do the required stuff, you may get a better dialogue with the school.
Alternatively, maybe you should look for a Steiner or Freinet type school where the kids learn more individually. I went to one for a year and was very confused, so I didn't choose it for my kids, but I have regretted I didn't find one for the youngest. I can see how a more individual approach would have stimulated her much more, with better results.
posted by mumimor at 11:36 AM on February 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: She is very young for her grade level. You have to be 6 on September 1, and her birthday is in August, so she is likely one of the youngest in her class.
posted by JXM368 at 11:52 AM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by JXM368 at 11:52 AM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
look, putting aside whatever special thing might be going on with her, there's no way a 6 year old is going to be able to stop herself from being distracted by a screen within her field of vision. It's damn near impossible even for adults. It's a ridiculous practice for the teacher to be allowing.
You may not be able to get the teacher to change that practice, but the very least she can do is seat your daughter in the first row, and adjust the angle of seats to help solve the screen-in-peripheral-vision problem.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:53 AM on February 14, 2020 [28 favorites]
You may not be able to get the teacher to change that practice, but the very least she can do is seat your daughter in the first row, and adjust the angle of seats to help solve the screen-in-peripheral-vision problem.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:53 AM on February 14, 2020 [28 favorites]
I mean, that assignment sounds boring, especially compared to an iPad. When I was in first grade, we were assigned homework to write out letters and consonant clusters and things like that on little pieces of paper to practice our writing. I didn't do any of them for quite a while, and a parent-teacher conference resulted. I still got into the gifted program a few years later, when they started it (they did not start it in first grade in my district, but rather third grade, if I recall correctly). I was subsequently in all the gifted programs and honors classes throughout my schooling. I ended up in two honor societies in college. I absolutely wouldn't despair that your gifted, young for her grade first-grader isn't into matching up stuff from a word bank when the person next to her is on an iPad.
I'm wondering if you could provide guidance on that to the teacher, since they asked—iPads are really hypersalient for kids who are so young, so of course things such as organizing papers and books and completing a boring word-bank exercise are going to be less exciting to her by comparison. This seems potentially like a case of your first-grader being a little young, but also potentially like a case of your first-grader being bored by the assignment, especially compared to the other options available.
posted by limeonaire at 11:58 AM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm wondering if you could provide guidance on that to the teacher, since they asked—iPads are really hypersalient for kids who are so young, so of course things such as organizing papers and books and completing a boring word-bank exercise are going to be less exciting to her by comparison. This seems potentially like a case of your first-grader being a little young, but also potentially like a case of your first-grader being bored by the assignment, especially compared to the other options available.
posted by limeonaire at 11:58 AM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sometimes I think I'm just not equipping her properly to behave in school.
Please don't think of this as a discipline issue. She's so young - the compliance and self focus our schools often ask of children isn't necessarily something they are developmentally ready for. My son is in 3rd grade and has always had issues similar to the ones you describe. Before his ADHD diagnosis this fall we started occupational therapy starting in 1st grade. Getting the OT evaluation was a real eye opener for me and explained so much of his early childhood and situations where I would just wonder - where is my kid so different from these other children we're around (just mentioning this b/c you say she has trouble at home as well). If you do feel like this is a pattern and there ....something going on beyond just age, weekly OT has been very beneficial for my son on some many levels. It also paved the way for help us ask for different types of support from the classroom - fidgets to squeeze, a rubber band for his feet or a pillow for his chair - mostly ways of meeting his need for sensory input w/out being disruptive.
re: the ipads, from volunteering in my kids class it seems that screens are pretty prevalent - the kids are working independently on different tasks some of which will be computer based and the kids are often at their desks, so one might have a screen and the other not. It sounded like the privacy screen her teacher gave her was probably a reasonable solution.
posted by snowymorninblues at 12:01 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Please don't think of this as a discipline issue. She's so young - the compliance and self focus our schools often ask of children isn't necessarily something they are developmentally ready for. My son is in 3rd grade and has always had issues similar to the ones you describe. Before his ADHD diagnosis this fall we started occupational therapy starting in 1st grade. Getting the OT evaluation was a real eye opener for me and explained so much of his early childhood and situations where I would just wonder - where is my kid so different from these other children we're around (just mentioning this b/c you say she has trouble at home as well). If you do feel like this is a pattern and there ....something going on beyond just age, weekly OT has been very beneficial for my son on some many levels. It also paved the way for help us ask for different types of support from the classroom - fidgets to squeeze, a rubber band for his feet or a pillow for his chair - mostly ways of meeting his need for sensory input w/out being disruptive.
re: the ipads, from volunteering in my kids class it seems that screens are pretty prevalent - the kids are working independently on different tasks some of which will be computer based and the kids are often at their desks, so one might have a screen and the other not. It sounded like the privacy screen her teacher gave her was probably a reasonable solution.
posted by snowymorninblues at 12:01 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, consider that when you were a kid, just like when I was, I'm going to guess you did not have iPads or smartphones. That alone is a very different set of circumstances, and consider how most adults now can scarcely keep their hands off their phones. I'm wishing on your behalf that schools wouldn't include individual screens as an option when others in the room are working on tasks on paper—I remember when going to the computer lab was something the entire class did together—but since it's probably not going to happen, maybe there are other ways the teacher can help set things up that would lessen this distraction. I feel like the teacher's attempting to give your kid a privacy screen, then complaining when she inevitably wants to peek around it at the much more salient thing next to her, is setting her up to fail a bit. That would be like if I set food behind a privacy screen in my living room, then punished the cats when they inevitably peeked behind the screen and tried to eat the food. Not all kids are able to delay in a situation like that. The teacher needs to also do her part to set conditions under which all students in the classroom can be successful, just like I need to set up my home environment in a way that the cats can be successful and good and we don't have to fight all the time because of choices I've made in re home setup.
That said, one thing you could also work with her on would be ability to delay. That will be important throughout her life, not just in these situations, because there will always be times when she needs to make the choice to do boring work or otherwise put off more gratifying activities to get through whatever is at hand. It is entirely possible to teach kids the ability to delay—to save up for toys they want and make hard choices about that, to wait for a larger dessert or candy reward later, to limit screen time, etc. I would suggest that you look into strategies for teaching ability to delay.
posted by limeonaire at 12:14 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
That said, one thing you could also work with her on would be ability to delay. That will be important throughout her life, not just in these situations, because there will always be times when she needs to make the choice to do boring work or otherwise put off more gratifying activities to get through whatever is at hand. It is entirely possible to teach kids the ability to delay—to save up for toys they want and make hard choices about that, to wait for a larger dessert or candy reward later, to limit screen time, etc. I would suggest that you look into strategies for teaching ability to delay.
posted by limeonaire at 12:14 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
That assignment sounds terribly boring (and useless), and the iPad so deliciously inviting. There are lots of kids who struggle with attention in gifted classes; I find it odd that she wasn't admitted for that reason, as these problems sometimes clear up when kids are more challenged.
Try really laying on the challenge at home and see what happens. And an OT evaluation would also be incredibly helpful -- I would not want to diagnose a kid that young with anything, esp. as the youngest kids in the class are far likelier to be labeled.
posted by caoimhe at 12:25 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Try really laying on the challenge at home and see what happens. And an OT evaluation would also be incredibly helpful -- I would not want to diagnose a kid that young with anything, esp. as the youngest kids in the class are far likelier to be labeled.
posted by caoimhe at 12:25 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
(Commentators may wish to note that iPads are common in classrooms now, and asking a teacher to remove them from the classroom may interfere with another child's IEP, which is not lawful.)
posted by DarlingBri at 12:31 PM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 12:31 PM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
I don’t have any advice as a parent, but I can tell you that as a 1st grader, I was easily distractible and not very engaged in class because, I remember, I was so bored. Honestly, I’m bored now reading the teacher’s description of the activity. If we had iPads then, I’d certainly have been distracted. (Side note: iPads for first graders are a terrible idea pedagogically!) I 1was also young for my grade (turned 6 in November). I ended up doing very well starting in high school when classes got interesting and graduated at the top of my class and ended up with a PhD. I’m not saying this is the same situation or discouraging you from getting an ADHD diagnosis if you think it’s warranted, but if you think your daughter is all right, she probably is.
posted by redlines at 12:44 PM on February 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by redlines at 12:44 PM on February 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
On the iPad question: when I taught college, I requested that those who wanted to use laptops in class sit at the back so they minimize distracting their classmates. Can the teachers separate the iPad users for the duration somehow?
posted by redlines at 12:46 PM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by redlines at 12:46 PM on February 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
Oh geez, somehow I missed that she's just in first grade! And she's on the younger side of first graders. So that's probably some of the distractability problem solved right there, especially if she came to first grade from a 1/2 kindergarten or no kindergarten at all. And even if she did come from full day kindergarten, first grade is a big jump in their little worlds and she is, as you said, on the younger side. She's probably slightly behind her older peers in the focus department, and that is totally to be expected.
If she's having problems at home (is her distractedness actually a problem or is it merely an annoyance) and she's having problems socializing with her peers (you didn't say that but kids with ADD often have problems socializing), and she's having issues at school, it would be worth getting an evaluation. If the issues at home only amount to "well, she gets her chores done eventually but only if we ask her like three times," and if she's okay with peer activities, but school is the problem? School is the problem, then, and you need to get with the teachers and administration to figure out next steps.
I'm happy to discuss this with you via MeMail; I have lots of experience with both a kid who was gifted and had ADHD and with a kid who was fine everywhere else but school because she was bored to tears.
posted by cooker girl at 12:53 PM on February 14, 2020
If she's having problems at home (is her distractedness actually a problem or is it merely an annoyance) and she's having problems socializing with her peers (you didn't say that but kids with ADD often have problems socializing), and she's having issues at school, it would be worth getting an evaluation. If the issues at home only amount to "well, she gets her chores done eventually but only if we ask her like three times," and if she's okay with peer activities, but school is the problem? School is the problem, then, and you need to get with the teachers and administration to figure out next steps.
I'm happy to discuss this with you via MeMail; I have lots of experience with both a kid who was gifted and had ADHD and with a kid who was fine everywhere else but school because she was bored to tears.
posted by cooker girl at 12:53 PM on February 14, 2020
I'll Nth an evaluation for learning disabilities and ADD / ADHD. Lots of smart folks have this and slide through the system without getting help for years because they're smart and everyone just yells at them to BEHAVE. Get her tested, it will make the rest of her life better.
posted by bile and syntax at 1:20 PM on February 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 1:20 PM on February 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
So, my kid is in 2nd grade, a July birthday so also young for his grade, also gifted and also a behavior challenge in his regular classroom placement (though thankfully my district does not require children to be perfect quiet little bookworms in order to be considered gifted, so he does do that program as well).
This year his behavior turned a big big corner through one really simple intervention: he got a desk. I know that it's supposed to be The Thing These Days that rows of desks are bad and all kids should collaborate at group tables but that does not work for all children. My son needs his own space where he can at least attempt to concentrate on his work without 3 other 7-year-olds doing 7-year-old things in the same space. So, that might be something to ask for.
I've otherwise found a weird "we've tried nothing and nothing works" kind of vibe with a lot of my son's teachers. I'm trained as a teacher myself, I want to be on their side, but they make it real difficult sometimes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:22 PM on February 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
This year his behavior turned a big big corner through one really simple intervention: he got a desk. I know that it's supposed to be The Thing These Days that rows of desks are bad and all kids should collaborate at group tables but that does not work for all children. My son needs his own space where he can at least attempt to concentrate on his work without 3 other 7-year-olds doing 7-year-old things in the same space. So, that might be something to ask for.
I've otherwise found a weird "we've tried nothing and nothing works" kind of vibe with a lot of my son's teachers. I'm trained as a teacher myself, I want to be on their side, but they make it real difficult sometimes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:22 PM on February 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
Can you make any suggestions for me?
This little condescending ending to the letter is ruffling my feathers. I think this is a canned response that some teachers employ. I've never had an email until this year when my youngest child, who is a teenager, was habitually seconds late to the field for band practice. I thought it was odd to receive an email over this since he a teenager and also drives himself to practice. Instead of an email I think it would have been more age-appropriate and effective to make him sit out or knock points off, or whatever assistant band directors do, but don't email the parent over something so minor. I told my kid to be on time -- don't be late again and I don't want another email. He wasn't late again.
Is your teacher young or inexperienced or not have kids of her own? Because this is completely normal and not something to be concerned about unless assignments are habitually incomplete. It's odd that you got a note home in the first place about this very minor problem. It's okay and normal that your first-grader is distracted or riveted over an iPad or whatever it may be. I wouldn't worry one bit and I would only give your daughter friendly and firm reminders that she must complete her work and listen to the teacher. Reiterate that all assignments must be done and it's not a choice. She's still learning how to manage her time. Other than that reassure the teacher that you are aware and making efforts to remind her to complete her work. And the teacher could have told your daughter to take another desk until work was complete instead of emailing.
About the gifted thing -- your daughter's intelligence won't be affected if she's in "gifted" classes or not. She has plenty of time to take more challenging curriculum down the road and if she's curious learner she will find a way with or without gifted classes.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
This little condescending ending to the letter is ruffling my feathers. I think this is a canned response that some teachers employ. I've never had an email until this year when my youngest child, who is a teenager, was habitually seconds late to the field for band practice. I thought it was odd to receive an email over this since he a teenager and also drives himself to practice. Instead of an email I think it would have been more age-appropriate and effective to make him sit out or knock points off, or whatever assistant band directors do, but don't email the parent over something so minor. I told my kid to be on time -- don't be late again and I don't want another email. He wasn't late again.
Is your teacher young or inexperienced or not have kids of her own? Because this is completely normal and not something to be concerned about unless assignments are habitually incomplete. It's odd that you got a note home in the first place about this very minor problem. It's okay and normal that your first-grader is distracted or riveted over an iPad or whatever it may be. I wouldn't worry one bit and I would only give your daughter friendly and firm reminders that she must complete her work and listen to the teacher. Reiterate that all assignments must be done and it's not a choice. She's still learning how to manage her time. Other than that reassure the teacher that you are aware and making efforts to remind her to complete her work. And the teacher could have told your daughter to take another desk until work was complete instead of emailing.
About the gifted thing -- your daughter's intelligence won't be affected if she's in "gifted" classes or not. She has plenty of time to take more challenging curriculum down the road and if she's curious learner she will find a way with or without gifted classes.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:25 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Agree with the rest: this is primarily an instruction/instructor problem, and I’d be walking up the chain of command on it if the teacher is not hearing you.
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:31 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 1:31 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
[teacher wrote:] I also have to give her more reminders than the other children about her organization of folders, papers, books and supplies.
Yes, you probably do want to get her screened for ADHD. Also find a teacher/school who understands that kids can be academically gifted and still not be gifted at organization or focus.
As a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood: The only reason I did not get this note as a kid in school every single week was that I was quiet and behaviorally compliant as well as being academically gifted. That let me get away with my complete inability to manage ”organization of folders, papers, books and supplies”. Until I got to fifth grade, where my teacher got fed up and yelled at me in front of the class for forgetting to bring my completed homework for the nth time. Well, or I guess fourth grade, when the teacher got fed up with more than one kid and snapped at the entire class “You’re supposed to be AG! Why can’t you ever remember your folders?”
I still carry around loads of guilt and shame for not being better at organizational/admin stuff like this. I’m still not great at it as a grownup. I’ve developed better coping strategies, but I still drop a lot of these balls.
I really wish adults in my life had explicitly taught me some strategies when I was a kid, rather than just scolding me when I failed.
posted by snowmentality at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2020 [12 favorites]
Yes, you probably do want to get her screened for ADHD. Also find a teacher/school who understands that kids can be academically gifted and still not be gifted at organization or focus.
As a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood: The only reason I did not get this note as a kid in school every single week was that I was quiet and behaviorally compliant as well as being academically gifted. That let me get away with my complete inability to manage ”organization of folders, papers, books and supplies”. Until I got to fifth grade, where my teacher got fed up and yelled at me in front of the class for forgetting to bring my completed homework for the nth time. Well, or I guess fourth grade, when the teacher got fed up with more than one kid and snapped at the entire class “You’re supposed to be AG! Why can’t you ever remember your folders?”
I still carry around loads of guilt and shame for not being better at organizational/admin stuff like this. I’m still not great at it as a grownup. I’ve developed better coping strategies, but I still drop a lot of these balls.
I really wish adults in my life had explicitly taught me some strategies when I was a kid, rather than just scolding me when I failed.
posted by snowmentality at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2020 [12 favorites]
To clarify my answer if it matters:
I would only reassure teacher that you are on top of it and making efforts to be sure work is being completed. I would not accuse teacher of inappropriately emailing or anything of the sort. Keep it short, light, and professional. She may have overreacted and emailed you but you don't have to overreact or think anything of it. This is all a minor problem and should be allowed to blow over. Kid, teacher, and parent are all going to be fine.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:38 PM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would only reassure teacher that you are on top of it and making efforts to be sure work is being completed. I would not accuse teacher of inappropriately emailing or anything of the sort. Keep it short, light, and professional. She may have overreacted and emailed you but you don't have to overreact or think anything of it. This is all a minor problem and should be allowed to blow over. Kid, teacher, and parent are all going to be fine.
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:38 PM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Just chiming in as the umpteenth woman who took gifted classes and was finally diagnosed with ADD as an adult to say "Oh, hi there, JXM368's kiddo, you are me in first grade!" That assignment is so boring that it flips all the way around from easy to tedious.
I'm not sure what to tell you to do, except to say that wanting her to be more compliant and "good" just for sake of doing well in school is mostly a path to insecurity and suppressed anxiety and imposter syndrome as a middle-aged Gen Xer working in the nonprofit sector and ohhhh yeah, I'm totally projecting.
But look, think about this assignment from an adult perspective for a second, what is it supposed to DO? It's just an exercise in following directions. Of course, that's not evil, you have to have some sort of structured assignment in class to get six-year-old kids started on a subject. But man, it's hard to swallow if your brain jumps three steps ahead and wanders two steps to the right as a matter of course. Also, it's really disheartening to be punished for not finishing classwork for reasons you can't articulate. Does that sound like your kid?
I am resistant to following other people's rules about how to keep my work "orderly," but paradoxically I can get a lot of satisfaction out of categorizing and recategorizing things/concepts/objects. However, I'm usually in-between systems, which, practically speaking, can equate to kind of a mess and mishmosh. Does that sound like your kid?
We recently had her tested for gifted classes, and her test scores were very high, high enough to enter the program...but she was not admitted into the program because she does not work independently in class.
One last thing. I obviously don't know the full story of what they told you, how she tested, or how this gifted program works, but on the face of it, this reasoning would effectively discriminate against so many very bright ADD/ADHD kids that it's laughable. Now, I'm not making any dark accusations here. And I'm not suggesting that she should run amok with no behavioral expectations or self-regulation. I'm saying that you're definitely going to have to assertively push and question and advocate for your kid to get her into the classes that stimulate her intellectually, and since you say that you were a compliant child, this may feel a little uncomfortable for you.
posted by desuetude at 2:18 PM on February 14, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure what to tell you to do, except to say that wanting her to be more compliant and "good" just for sake of doing well in school is mostly a path to insecurity and suppressed anxiety and imposter syndrome as a middle-aged Gen Xer working in the nonprofit sector and ohhhh yeah, I'm totally projecting.
But look, think about this assignment from an adult perspective for a second, what is it supposed to DO? It's just an exercise in following directions. Of course, that's not evil, you have to have some sort of structured assignment in class to get six-year-old kids started on a subject. But man, it's hard to swallow if your brain jumps three steps ahead and wanders two steps to the right as a matter of course. Also, it's really disheartening to be punished for not finishing classwork for reasons you can't articulate. Does that sound like your kid?
I am resistant to following other people's rules about how to keep my work "orderly," but paradoxically I can get a lot of satisfaction out of categorizing and recategorizing things/concepts/objects. However, I'm usually in-between systems, which, practically speaking, can equate to kind of a mess and mishmosh. Does that sound like your kid?
We recently had her tested for gifted classes, and her test scores were very high, high enough to enter the program...but she was not admitted into the program because she does not work independently in class.
One last thing. I obviously don't know the full story of what they told you, how she tested, or how this gifted program works, but on the face of it, this reasoning would effectively discriminate against so many very bright ADD/ADHD kids that it's laughable. Now, I'm not making any dark accusations here. And I'm not suggesting that she should run amok with no behavioral expectations or self-regulation. I'm saying that you're definitely going to have to assertively push and question and advocate for your kid to get her into the classes that stimulate her intellectually, and since you say that you were a compliant child, this may feel a little uncomfortable for you.
posted by desuetude at 2:18 PM on February 14, 2020 [10 favorites]
She has got "reminders" about being organized but has anyone actually shown her her how to do it? I don't think I've even met anyone who could say they know how to keep a never ending stream of meaningless papers in an organized way. Therefore I'm really not sure that not knowing how to do something at 6 that most adults can't do and probably aren't teaching her constitutes a behavioral issue or a need for a diagnosis.
posted by bleep at 2:26 PM on February 14, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by bleep at 2:26 PM on February 14, 2020 [9 favorites]
We’ve been in a similar situation for a bit (very smart kid, August birthday, access to gifted services on the verge of being denied because of classroom behavior problems). Like many posters here we had some reservations about whether the expectations were reasonable, but in the end we decided full cooperation with school staff was our best option. I think the jury is in now and this was the best thing we could have done — it has been difficult at times, but the only good things that have happened, happened because we chose to work as a team. Our daughter, now seven, did wind up with a Label (TM). Happy to talk more via MeMail if you want more details.
posted by eirias at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2020
posted by eirias at 4:15 PM on February 14, 2020
Another female August-born former gifted child with ADD here whose first, totally-unsuccessful intervention was having a cardboard study carrel placed on my desk in first grade...in 1981. I was fortunate that within a couple years my parents got me to a psychiatrist who was ahead of most on ADD, and so I had treatment in an era in which a lot of girls' struggles with it got overlooked, but looking back as an adult, I was continually several years behind on organizational and study skills, and access to the kind of executive function coaching that's available now would have helped so, so much.
posted by jocelmeow at 4:41 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jocelmeow at 4:41 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
What everybody else is saying, and also: not just ADD, but autism can present differently in girls. Is this the only issue? My ASD kiddo fell through the cracks (I was told "executive function delay" and believed it for years), and I regret it deeply.
posted by moira at 4:43 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by moira at 4:43 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
If your daughter does have ADHD and attends a public school, she may be eligible for special education that would provide more intensive behavior support that would allow her to thrive in the gifted classes she is clearly capable of succeeding in.
The exact procedures around special education eligibility vary greatly from state to state, but one commonality is that they rely heavily on obscure technical requirements that parents can inadvertently fall afoul of without some advance planning. The best people to help with that are at the special education parent training and information centers in each state. They are staffed by parents who have been through the process and can tell you what to ask for from the school. You can find your parent center on this page.
The term for kids who are intellectually gifted and have learning or thinking disabilities is "twice exceptional." Here's a good overview from Understood, a website run by a consortium of non-profits with the goal of helping parents and teachers of kids with learning disabilities, ADHD, and ASD. Their entire website is very helpful.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 5:29 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
The exact procedures around special education eligibility vary greatly from state to state, but one commonality is that they rely heavily on obscure technical requirements that parents can inadvertently fall afoul of without some advance planning. The best people to help with that are at the special education parent training and information centers in each state. They are staffed by parents who have been through the process and can tell you what to ask for from the school. You can find your parent center on this page.
The term for kids who are intellectually gifted and have learning or thinking disabilities is "twice exceptional." Here's a good overview from Understood, a website run by a consortium of non-profits with the goal of helping parents and teachers of kids with learning disabilities, ADHD, and ASD. Their entire website is very helpful.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 5:29 PM on February 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Another woman with ADHD chiming in here! I wasn't officially diagnosed until age 18 (after nearly flunking out of college during my freshman year), but I had significant and easily-spotted symptoms from very early childhood. Like many of the other women who've shared their experiences, though, my ADHD wasn't spotted in childhood because nobody was looking for it. Obviously I'm not a doctor and am not trying to say that this is definitively what's going on with your daughter, but I will say that I recognized a lot of my younger self in the picture that you paint of your daughter and her struggles.
Her teacher's note about having given your daughter a "privacy folder" to cut down on distractions triggered a long-forgotten memory of when my own elementary school teacher(s) would—in an attempt to get me to focus on my own work—make me move my desk to a quiet corner of the room and do my work while surrounded by a cardboard "study carrel". My teachers used to make me stay in the classroom during lunchtime and clean up the ever-present piles of papers, folders, granola bar wrappers, etc. that seemed to always stack up around me.
No matter how hard I tried to keep my things neat and organized, to stay focused on our lessons, to stop interrupting while someone else was talking, etc, things always eventually spiraled back out of my control. Like your daughter, I was also classified as gifted at an early age, and was also one of the youngest students in my grade. I tested very highly, both on our state's standardized tests and on those giftedness-program eligibility tests. However, my parents opted to keep me with the rest of my regular friends and classmates rather than moving me to the gifted program—given how much trouble I had dealing with school pressure as it was, I think they made the right call.
Whatever's going on with your daughter, please know that this isn't the end of the world. My ADHD may have presented me with significant roadblocks at various points in my life, but it's also imbued me with particular strengths that my non-ADHD peers don't have. Yes, I dropped out of college multiple times before it "took" and still sometimes struggle to manage my life/stay organized, but I'm also now a successful and happy undergraduate! Not only that, but I've managed to transfer to a special program at one of the top schools in the country and am doing very well academically. No matter what ends up being the issue at play here, I have nothing but confidence in your daughter's ability to grow and adapt - especially with a parent as caring and attentive as yourself on her side!
posted by second banana at 7:10 PM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Her teacher's note about having given your daughter a "privacy folder" to cut down on distractions triggered a long-forgotten memory of when my own elementary school teacher(s) would—in an attempt to get me to focus on my own work—make me move my desk to a quiet corner of the room and do my work while surrounded by a cardboard "study carrel". My teachers used to make me stay in the classroom during lunchtime and clean up the ever-present piles of papers, folders, granola bar wrappers, etc. that seemed to always stack up around me.
No matter how hard I tried to keep my things neat and organized, to stay focused on our lessons, to stop interrupting while someone else was talking, etc, things always eventually spiraled back out of my control. Like your daughter, I was also classified as gifted at an early age, and was also one of the youngest students in my grade. I tested very highly, both on our state's standardized tests and on those giftedness-program eligibility tests. However, my parents opted to keep me with the rest of my regular friends and classmates rather than moving me to the gifted program—given how much trouble I had dealing with school pressure as it was, I think they made the right call.
Whatever's going on with your daughter, please know that this isn't the end of the world. My ADHD may have presented me with significant roadblocks at various points in my life, but it's also imbued me with particular strengths that my non-ADHD peers don't have. Yes, I dropped out of college multiple times before it "took" and still sometimes struggle to manage my life/stay organized, but I'm also now a successful and happy undergraduate! Not only that, but I've managed to transfer to a special program at one of the top schools in the country and am doing very well academically. No matter what ends up being the issue at play here, I have nothing but confidence in your daughter's ability to grow and adapt - especially with a parent as caring and attentive as yourself on her side!
posted by second banana at 7:10 PM on February 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not sure how many more examples you might need to be convinced, but hello from a woman who was both in the gifted program as a child and also later diagnosed with ADHD.
I went on to be a pretty successful student, but I always think about how much more successful I would have been (and how much less stressful school and life would have been) had my parents recognized my symptoms and gotten me evaluated. I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my mid 20s. I don't begrudge my parents but I do wish I could go back in time and find a way to tip them off. You're there right now- you don't need the time machine. Now is the time you can make a difference.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:47 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
I went on to be a pretty successful student, but I always think about how much more successful I would have been (and how much less stressful school and life would have been) had my parents recognized my symptoms and gotten me evaluated. I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my mid 20s. I don't begrudge my parents but I do wish I could go back in time and find a way to tip them off. You're there right now- you don't need the time machine. Now is the time you can make a difference.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:47 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
There's a book called Smart but Scattered that was a tremendous help for my son when he was a bit older than your daughter.
posted by selfmedicating at 10:55 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by selfmedicating at 10:55 PM on February 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
My previous response was deleted, so I will just say this: as someone who works in special education, I see a teacher who has quite a few bad teaching practices in the class, I see a parent taking it these wrongheaded things as behavioral issues of concern and I see responders here suggesting further screenings for ADHD and autism and talking about 2e kids, etc.
But the biggest thing I see is a 6 year old first grader who is behaving completely appropriately and responding to a bad teacher really well. She is being given boring work. Her peer has a fun thing to do. There is an expectation of organization that a kid her age cognitively cannot do. This is not a behavioral issue. Worksheets are dumb and when the kid next to you has an iPad, who is going to ignore it and instead focus on a worksheet? That's not distractibility, that's normal.
So if you were a parent in my district and came to me with this, I would talk to the teacher about what's going on in the class and have them read a child development book. I would not suggest further testing or a screening for autism.
Your daughter is behaving completely typically for a kid her age and with the classroom demands given.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:25 AM on February 15, 2020 [9 favorites]
But the biggest thing I see is a 6 year old first grader who is behaving completely appropriately and responding to a bad teacher really well. She is being given boring work. Her peer has a fun thing to do. There is an expectation of organization that a kid her age cognitively cannot do. This is not a behavioral issue. Worksheets are dumb and when the kid next to you has an iPad, who is going to ignore it and instead focus on a worksheet? That's not distractibility, that's normal.
So if you were a parent in my district and came to me with this, I would talk to the teacher about what's going on in the class and have them read a child development book. I would not suggest further testing or a screening for autism.
Your daughter is behaving completely typically for a kid her age and with the classroom demands given.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:25 AM on February 15, 2020 [9 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:02 AM on February 14, 2020 [47 favorites]