How Does "Unlimited" Vacation Work?
January 21, 2020 8:41 AM Subscribe
I understand the downsides of an “unlimited vacation and sick days” policy. Please help me understand the upsides.
I’m looking for personal experience of how an unlimited vacation policy actually benefits those who want or need it. If you had an unlimited policy at work, and actually liked it and used it more than the standard X days off per year [common in the USA], please share how you made good use of it.
Hearing that it is a real benefit and was used as such would help me think it’s more than a marketing gimmick and understand the outer bounds of this benefit.
Also curious if your company was small and intimate (i.e. less than 20 employees, owner is closely involved in day-to-day operations) or a large company (e.g. Netflix)
I’m looking for personal experience of how an unlimited vacation policy actually benefits those who want or need it. If you had an unlimited policy at work, and actually liked it and used it more than the standard X days off per year [common in the USA], please share how you made good use of it.
Hearing that it is a real benefit and was used as such would help me think it’s more than a marketing gimmick and understand the outer bounds of this benefit.
Also curious if your company was small and intimate (i.e. less than 20 employees, owner is closely involved in day-to-day operations) or a large company (e.g. Netflix)
I've been fortunate to have this policy at three differently-sized companies in recent years. It's usually framed as "discretionary PTO" rather than "unlimited vacation" but it basically means you don't have to track or submit anything to a manager. If you're sick, you're sick and you don't go to work. If you have a dentist appointment at 2 and go home afterwards, fine. If you want a 2 week vacation, go nuts. As long as you get the work done and arrange coverage for key tasks, no one is monitoring your comings and goings. It's quite lovely and humane.
posted by nkknkk at 8:54 AM on January 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by nkknkk at 8:54 AM on January 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
I work for a company of roughly 9k employees, that moved from a defined PTO system to a DTO/Discretionary Time Off/Unlimited Time Off system at the beginning of 2018. Before this, I worked at a startup of around 50 people that also had unlimited time off. At the startup, it was absolutely the scam that every analysis has said it is. Leave rarely got approved, because we were always in some variety of crunch and everyone was always necessary (they flamed out spectacularly, and I enjoyed watching it).
At BiggerCo., it's actually real, and it's been pretty great. I took around 16-18 weeks of total time off over the last two years, including vacations, sick days, time for appointments and running errands, what have you. I do think a lot of it is reliant on who approves leave and how good/not good they are. My boss is basically a good person and we have a good relationship, so it's never been a problem for me to get leave approved. I'm actually taking a last-minute half-day (like, I requested it this morning) today to pick up my in-laws from the airport.
I still think it's mostly/usually a scam, but I have appreciated it at my current position.
posted by protocoach at 8:59 AM on January 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
At BiggerCo., it's actually real, and it's been pretty great. I took around 16-18 weeks of total time off over the last two years, including vacations, sick days, time for appointments and running errands, what have you. I do think a lot of it is reliant on who approves leave and how good/not good they are. My boss is basically a good person and we have a good relationship, so it's never been a problem for me to get leave approved. I'm actually taking a last-minute half-day (like, I requested it this morning) today to pick up my in-laws from the airport.
I still think it's mostly/usually a scam, but I have appreciated it at my current position.
posted by protocoach at 8:59 AM on January 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
I had unlimited vacation once. During the interview process I asked about it a few times because I had heard that it really means "no vacation" but everyone said it wasn't like that, people just took their vacations and occasional days off and it was just one less bureaucratic hassle to deal with. They were right, and it was glorious. I miss it so much.
Now that I have strictly limited vacation it goes like this:
September: oh man I only have 3 days left, I better save them in case of emergency.
December: "well no emergency came and I still have 3 days, can I roll them over to take off Jan 2 & 3?" "No my spreadsheet can't handle that." Who does this benefit??
posted by bleep at 9:10 AM on January 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Now that I have strictly limited vacation it goes like this:
September: oh man I only have 3 days left, I better save them in case of emergency.
December: "well no emergency came and I still have 3 days, can I roll them over to take off Jan 2 & 3?" "No my spreadsheet can't handle that." Who does this benefit??
posted by bleep at 9:10 AM on January 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
From what I recall at google and some other places, your vacation is unlimited in the sense that you can buy time off (deduct from salary) if you run out of PTO. People refer to that model as unlimited too. Less gimmicky because you pay for everything beyond N weeks
posted by shaademaan at 9:27 AM on January 21, 2020
posted by shaademaan at 9:27 AM on January 21, 2020
A couple of years ago, I hit my 10 year anniversary at a very large company, and finally earned 4 weeks of vacation. Four months later, they enacted unlimited vacation, with the limit of no more than two weeks in a row. We do still request them through the HR system and get approval from our manager.
Knowing the marketing hype, I planned out all of my vacation to ensure I took AT LEAST my 4 weeks. I ended up taking 6 weeks. XD
The next year, I took about 5 weeks (not counting sick days).
Since then, I've become a manager. One employee of 20 years took two sets of two weeks in a row last year - one set in the spring and another in the fall. I approved them both. I have no concerns about this employee's work.
Another manager, when first seeing this policy, was absolutely convinced that HR is routinely pulling reports about how much vacation people are taking. If that is true, I haven't seen it yet. And seems to go against the policy of unlimited, unless a person is under suspicion for a certain reason.
Our company had many higher level directors/managers/etc who had been there for decades before the unlimited kicked in. That meant many of them had lots of roll over vacation and paid out vacation. One thing about unlimited vacation is that there is no more pay out of unused days in case of layoffs.
posted by jillithd at 9:33 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Knowing the marketing hype, I planned out all of my vacation to ensure I took AT LEAST my 4 weeks. I ended up taking 6 weeks. XD
The next year, I took about 5 weeks (not counting sick days).
Since then, I've become a manager. One employee of 20 years took two sets of two weeks in a row last year - one set in the spring and another in the fall. I approved them both. I have no concerns about this employee's work.
Another manager, when first seeing this policy, was absolutely convinced that HR is routinely pulling reports about how much vacation people are taking. If that is true, I haven't seen it yet. And seems to go against the policy of unlimited, unless a person is under suspicion for a certain reason.
Our company had many higher level directors/managers/etc who had been there for decades before the unlimited kicked in. That meant many of them had lots of roll over vacation and paid out vacation. One thing about unlimited vacation is that there is no more pay out of unused days in case of layoffs.
posted by jillithd at 9:33 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm at a ~300ish person place. Part of the business makes stuff. Those people are hourly and are lied to by management about having unlimited PTO (sotto voce: at manager's discretion. Their managers have been instructed to limit their team's PTO to 14 days per person). For them, I think it would be better to have a generous defined benefit vacation policy, and I say as much loudly and often in meetings.
But for me it's great. I'm a figurative firefighter and often have to come in outside of my regularly scheduled hours, so rather than figuring out comp time or something for all of that on call work I generally just work shorter days and still get more actual days off than anywhere I've worked before.
But, no one is (usually) going to hound you to actually take your vacation, like they would at places that have defined days and a limited ability to roll them over. So definitely some people take none.
Also, you don't get paid out for unused PTO when you leave, which is again screwing over those hourly folk who switch jobs more frequently.
posted by booooooze at 9:35 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
But for me it's great. I'm a figurative firefighter and often have to come in outside of my regularly scheduled hours, so rather than figuring out comp time or something for all of that on call work I generally just work shorter days and still get more actual days off than anywhere I've worked before.
But, no one is (usually) going to hound you to actually take your vacation, like they would at places that have defined days and a limited ability to roll them over. So definitely some people take none.
Also, you don't get paid out for unused PTO when you leave, which is again screwing over those hourly folk who switch jobs more frequently.
posted by booooooze at 9:35 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
A coworker of mine has been with the company for less than two years and is hesitant to take much or any vacation. They are not my employee, but I do rag on them a bit that they should take vacation to avoid burn out. The hard part is for those new-to-the-company folks who don't know culture or expectations for a vague unlimited vacation plan. That's the hard part. So talk with your manager (or if a manager, talk with your new employees) to specify unwritten expectations around the policy.
posted by jillithd at 9:42 AM on January 21, 2020
posted by jillithd at 9:42 AM on January 21, 2020
How was it a benefit? I can take off all of the says my kid's school is not in session, with no worries. I can also plan family vacations with no worries. I don't have to count hours and figure out if I have enough or argue with my boss to give and take for doctor appointments or snow days. It is something I no longer have to waste brain cycles on to track.
posted by jillithd at 9:46 AM on January 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by jillithd at 9:46 AM on January 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
No brain cycles lost on "oh shit, do I have time to get sick/mail this package/pick up the kid early/etc."
(Haha, jillithd said exactly the same thing!)
posted by the_blizz at 9:48 AM on January 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
(Haha, jillithd said exactly the same thing!)
posted by the_blizz at 9:48 AM on January 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
(Also: I work for a nonprofit; we're about 50+ people.)
One thing I learned to look for is unlimited vacation that comes with a minimum required vacation policy, aka you must take at least three weeks or whatever. It's a pretty good clue to the underlying spirit of the policy.
posted by the_blizz at 9:52 AM on January 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
One thing I learned to look for is unlimited vacation that comes with a minimum required vacation policy, aka you must take at least three weeks or whatever. It's a pretty good clue to the underlying spirit of the policy.
posted by the_blizz at 9:52 AM on January 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm part of a 3000 person company but we had "unlimited" (they called it "personalized") PTO enacted when we were less than 500. As long as there was coverage, I could take off whenever while I worked in direct support. This meant a rush of requests to get holidays off as soon as they were available to request (about 3 months ahead).
Now that it's a bigger company and I'm not in direct coverage type work, it means that anytime I would take a couple of days off, I take the whole week off. Holiday in the middle of the week? I'm taking the whole week. Planning a trip for vacation? I'll take a couple of days off on either side of the trip to prep and recover from travel.
posted by sleeping bear at 10:00 AM on January 21, 2020
Now that it's a bigger company and I'm not in direct coverage type work, it means that anytime I would take a couple of days off, I take the whole week off. Holiday in the middle of the week? I'm taking the whole week. Planning a trip for vacation? I'll take a couple of days off on either side of the trip to prep and recover from travel.
posted by sleeping bear at 10:00 AM on January 21, 2020
I am a woman who works in a very bureaucratic environment (highly rigid PTO) and my husband has unlimited vacation time. It is incredibly valuable for us because we have a child (soon to be 2) and there are the inevitable sick days/daycare closures. His flexibility absolutely makes our family work, and finding a similar situation would be a high, high priority if he ever needed to look for a new job.
His company is ~150 and the unlimited time off is real -- he's never had any request be denied, and he doesn't get weird pushback or snark. He probably uses 5-ish weeks per year, though he's never asked for 2 full weeks consecutively (but I know he has coworkers who have taken that amount of consecutive time).
I really respect that his company honors the unlimited time off they promise. I especially like that there are several manager-level men who regularly use their time off for childcare issues (like my husband does), and are open about this. It makes the whole culture feel better and more safe for parents. Of course there are also plenty of childless employees who take 2 weeks to vacation in Iceland, and that's supported too! It's all good.
posted by Bebo at 10:01 AM on January 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
His company is ~150 and the unlimited time off is real -- he's never had any request be denied, and he doesn't get weird pushback or snark. He probably uses 5-ish weeks per year, though he's never asked for 2 full weeks consecutively (but I know he has coworkers who have taken that amount of consecutive time).
I really respect that his company honors the unlimited time off they promise. I especially like that there are several manager-level men who regularly use their time off for childcare issues (like my husband does), and are open about this. It makes the whole culture feel better and more safe for parents. Of course there are also plenty of childless employees who take 2 weeks to vacation in Iceland, and that's supported too! It's all good.
posted by Bebo at 10:01 AM on January 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
I work in a start-up with fewer than ten employees. This means I'm the only one that can do my job, so I'm nervous about taking time off. Work culture is actually fine with it, enormous props to my CEO, but between actually liking my company's mission and my equity, I don't always feel like I can take time off. It's like I have too much invested in the company, you know?
I think it's really good for the employee with small children, since they can take off when their kids get sick or whatever. As frustrating as it sometimes is, it is a way to live in the world that I want to exist, so for that alone I think I'd appreciate it. I like knowing that I'm trusted to take time off as and when I need it, but I think I'll enjoy it better when we hire someone else who can take over my basic duties, and I can take two weeks off and just enjoy myself.
posted by kalimac at 10:12 AM on January 21, 2020
I think it's really good for the employee with small children, since they can take off when their kids get sick or whatever. As frustrating as it sometimes is, it is a way to live in the world that I want to exist, so for that alone I think I'd appreciate it. I like knowing that I'm trusted to take time off as and when I need it, but I think I'll enjoy it better when we hire someone else who can take over my basic duties, and I can take two weeks off and just enjoy myself.
posted by kalimac at 10:12 AM on January 21, 2020
I have a friend who has this now and at a previous company.
Previous company had so much internal pressure that she wasn't comfortable requesting vacation, and in fact was often asked to work while on vacation and on weekends. They were in general a completely toxic workplace.
Current company seems to be a pretty amazing place to work in general, and honor the unlimited vacation policy. When she had a medical condition she was basically able to use a month of unlimited vacation at their suggestion.
posted by DoubleLune at 10:14 AM on January 21, 2020
Previous company had so much internal pressure that she wasn't comfortable requesting vacation, and in fact was often asked to work while on vacation and on weekends. They were in general a completely toxic workplace.
Current company seems to be a pretty amazing place to work in general, and honor the unlimited vacation policy. When she had a medical condition she was basically able to use a month of unlimited vacation at their suggestion.
posted by DoubleLune at 10:14 AM on January 21, 2020
the only upside I have found is that you don't have to wait for it to accrue. however I have gotten plenty of weird pushback and guilt. now I make my requests a year in advance so they can't really say no. don't be mislead. it is only to benefit the company. they don't have to buy back your vacation when you leave.
posted by evilmonk at 10:31 AM on January 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by evilmonk at 10:31 AM on January 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
I've seen the upside at Google, where vacation days are counted but nobody really bothers you about taking time to go to the doctor, go see your kid's school play, etc. And when my Dad was dying they let me go to the UK and spend time with him that I don't think was counted anywhere.
Conversely I've worked at a toxic startup, TuneIn, where it seemed nobody dared take any of the "unlimited" vacation because good people were being fired for no good reason every week.
posted by w0mbat at 10:40 AM on January 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
Conversely I've worked at a toxic startup, TuneIn, where it seemed nobody dared take any of the "unlimited" vacation because good people were being fired for no good reason every week.
posted by w0mbat at 10:40 AM on January 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
The PTO system works pretty well if you are young, healthy, and childless. Once you begin to age, have kids, etc. the PTO system really breaks down, unless you have a spouse with a more flexible work life, or is a stay/work-at-home partner. Kids, especially, are the wildcard, what with the barrage of common childhood maladies and illnesses, requiring you to take time away from work to tend to them, take them to the doctor, etc.
I'm old enough to have worked several jobs under the old system where you have separate vacation and sick days. The PTO systems I've also worked under were far worse, generally ending up to be just the old number of vacation days, but now you have to take sick time out of those, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm old enough to have worked several jobs under the old system where you have separate vacation and sick days. The PTO systems I've also worked under were far worse, generally ending up to be just the old number of vacation days, but now you have to take sick time out of those, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Echo-ing those above - I think unlimited sick and/or vacation time (versus accrued PTO) is especially valuable for employees who are likely to need to flex their schedule and take random days off because they have small children, other caregiving responsibilities, or health issues. With a set pool of PTO, you end up eating through all your vacation on that 1-2 days/month that you need to take time off when you have non-flexible responsibilities outside of work. My husband has unlimited sick leave that he can use for dependents and it makes a huge difference in making our lives work-able with two small kids.
On the other hand, my sense is that a set pool of PTO does make it easier to take longer vacations, because it's more often looked at by management as an earned part of the compensation package and if they don't approve it, they're still on the hook for *paying* for it if you leave. Like Thorzdad says, I think the young, healthy, and childless folks are the ones who reap the most potential benefit from this.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:03 PM on January 21, 2020
On the other hand, my sense is that a set pool of PTO does make it easier to take longer vacations, because it's more often looked at by management as an earned part of the compensation package and if they don't approve it, they're still on the hook for *paying* for it if you leave. Like Thorzdad says, I think the young, healthy, and childless folks are the ones who reap the most potential benefit from this.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:03 PM on January 21, 2020
As someone who lives in California (where vacation time gets paid out), we had to always make a calculation of like "well is this day off actually work the $X that I would get if I didn't take it? Now my husband has unlimited and like... he just took off all of Christmas to New Years. He took off MLK day because I had it off & so did the kids. He definitely wouldn't have if that were actual money there. It's nice to not have to worry about whether that day is worth it, so he can actually take the 4 weeks a year (or more!) that he deserves.
posted by brainmouse at 1:25 PM on January 21, 2020
posted by brainmouse at 1:25 PM on January 21, 2020
Had it and loved it. Worked the hours I wanted, came and went when I wanted for appointments, errands, and 2.5 (or 3) day weekends. Took a big 4-week sabbatical (1 week of which was New Year’s) 18 months in. Basically it didn’t matter how many hours or days we worked as long as shit got done (and it did - it was an incredibly ambitious team that accomplished big things). I took a 1-2 week international vacation every year, plus essentially had the weeks of Xmas and New Year’s off, plus as many 3 day weekends as I wanted. We did not have to request or track for single days or half days. We generally let our boss or people we were close with know. Bosses “approved” requests for longer trips but I had never heard of one being denied.
posted by amaire at 1:57 PM on January 21, 2020
posted by amaire at 1:57 PM on January 21, 2020
As someone who's had academic jobs since my second year in college. . . I've never really not had unlimited vacation time, or a job where I couldn't have left for weeks at a time without anybody noticing. The great thing is that everyone can meet their personal needs and re-arrange schedules however they like. The bad thing is that everyone constantly feels the need to question how much time they're taking off.
Now that I pay students and postdocs, I spend a lot of time urging them to actually take vacations and not feel bad about it. In some ways, having an institutional expectation and a fixed amount of time would be a lot easier than negotiating every single vacation on an individual basis. Expecting every junior employee to decide for themselves what's appropriate is kind of weird. At least in my experience, the down side is definitely not people taking too much time off. It's people burning themselves out by not taking any time off at all.
I'm not sure how that relates to a large/small company. I guess it's roughly the equivalent of a 10 person team with a very hands-on boss. It's embedded in a ~10k person institution, but the team has it's own funding and nearly entirely independent operation. But, the team is also made up of weird, obsessive geeks who (mostly) love the work. I'm not sure how well that translates to non-academic jobs. But, in general, evaluating people on what they do rather than how much time they spend doing it seems like a pretty good incentive.
posted by eotvos at 2:34 PM on January 21, 2020
Now that I pay students and postdocs, I spend a lot of time urging them to actually take vacations and not feel bad about it. In some ways, having an institutional expectation and a fixed amount of time would be a lot easier than negotiating every single vacation on an individual basis. Expecting every junior employee to decide for themselves what's appropriate is kind of weird. At least in my experience, the down side is definitely not people taking too much time off. It's people burning themselves out by not taking any time off at all.
I'm not sure how that relates to a large/small company. I guess it's roughly the equivalent of a 10 person team with a very hands-on boss. It's embedded in a ~10k person institution, but the team has it's own funding and nearly entirely independent operation. But, the team is also made up of weird, obsessive geeks who (mostly) love the work. I'm not sure how well that translates to non-academic jobs. But, in general, evaluating people on what they do rather than how much time they spend doing it seems like a pretty good incentive.
posted by eotvos at 2:34 PM on January 21, 2020
I work for a large company with ~9k employees that went from PTO to DTO (discretionary time off) sometime in 2018. We kept the Xmas to New Year's company shutdown and 6-week paid sabbatical every 4 years. It does mean they don't have to pay out unused vacation time but so far I love it. I was especially glad to have it last year when I had to take weeks off, on and off throughout most of the year starting in January, because of post-concussion symptoms. A few other things also came up so I had lots of dental and medical appointments and stayed home for urgent plumbing work and it's been a huge relief not to worry about tracking time off for any of it. I also took the 6-week sabbatical I'd had on the team calendar since mid-2018, along with the occasional 3-day weekend to go camping. Cumulatively it was somewhere between 12-16 weeks of time off and no one has blinked an eye.
When we were on PTO (and before last year's medical issues), we got 12 days a year and I used to use it all. The year before the DTO policy was implemented, I somehow ended up with -8hrs PTO despite trying to be really conscientous about using only what I'd accrued and trying to track it accurately.
posted by kiripin at 3:00 PM on January 21, 2020
When we were on PTO (and before last year's medical issues), we got 12 days a year and I used to use it all. The year before the DTO policy was implemented, I somehow ended up with -8hrs PTO despite trying to be really conscientous about using only what I'd accrued and trying to track it accurately.
posted by kiripin at 3:00 PM on January 21, 2020
I work at a small non-profit. There are about ten of us in the office. We all have unofficial unlimited time-off which basically comes down to being essentially "forced" to take at least two weeks off a year (as in, if you haven't had a break, someone will notice and be like, "dude, go take a vacation" -- it's a very stressful environment at times so vacations are seen as vital to people's mental health).
They're also flexible about sick days since we can do a lot of work online, as well as flexible about other life things, like kid stuff and other events going on. I'm moving next week and they're cool with me not coming in for a couple of days because they know it's a big life event.
But we do have some huge important events that everyone knows not to schedule vacation time during because that it's all hands on deck, so that's a pay-off knowing that you HAVE to be available during those times. Last year one of our events just happened to be during Memorial Weekend and someone took off on a week-long family trip. While we all survived, there was definitely some gnashing of teeth from those of us who had to pick up the slack. (This person is no longer with us, but mostly because they realized they weren't a good fit and found a different job.)
There's been rumors about updating the Employee's Handbook to have a more "official" description about time-off with the standard two-weeks that most businesses use, but that probably won't change unless we start to get more employees (or someone abuses the unlimited time off, which hasn't happened so far).
We also have unofficial flex holidays. We're officially closed on federal holidays, but if someone decides that they'd rather get some work done that day, they're encouraged to take that time off later in the year.
Overall, this "unlimited time off" has been a pleasant experience after coming from years at a small business where it had to be staffed 24/7 and the only reason you could call out sick is if you were dying. I was one of the FT people there at the time so I did actually accrue vacation hours, but most people were PT so if they took time off, they didn't get paid. So when I started working at the non-profit and a couple months later was super sick, but came in to work because, well, that's what I was used to, I was astonished when they sent me home and made me stay home a few days until I felt better. Treating your employees like human beings and not just cogs in the machine shouldn't be such a shock, but yay capitalism.
Last year my father unexpectedly passed away the first week into my vacation. I had originally scheduled two-and-a-half weeks off, but it turned out to be almost four weeks just because of everything that had happened and the logistics of traveling to different countries. That's on top of the random days here and there due to appointments, sickness, and long-weekend getaways throughout the year. It was a relief to know that I wouldn't be fired for taking the time to be with my mother and dealing with the funeral and the logistical nightmare of helping my mother move half-way across the world.
Because in my old job, that could have happened -- by taking off more time than I was allowed, they could have given me the ultimatum of "show up when you're scheduled or don't show up ever again." (I doubt that necessarily would have happened since I was one of their best employees, but it wasn't unusual for other staff to be like, "Fine, then I quit.") At bare minimum, I wouldn't have been paid for that time I took off once it exceeded the vacation hours I had accrued, including bereavement (three days).
I don't expect those kind of life-changing events that require a lot of time off to happen frequently (at least, I hope not!), but it's nice to feel secure that if something ever did happen, I wouldn't be stressed about choosing my family or my health over my job.
posted by paisley sheep at 3:20 PM on January 21, 2020
They're also flexible about sick days since we can do a lot of work online, as well as flexible about other life things, like kid stuff and other events going on. I'm moving next week and they're cool with me not coming in for a couple of days because they know it's a big life event.
But we do have some huge important events that everyone knows not to schedule vacation time during because that it's all hands on deck, so that's a pay-off knowing that you HAVE to be available during those times. Last year one of our events just happened to be during Memorial Weekend and someone took off on a week-long family trip. While we all survived, there was definitely some gnashing of teeth from those of us who had to pick up the slack. (This person is no longer with us, but mostly because they realized they weren't a good fit and found a different job.)
There's been rumors about updating the Employee's Handbook to have a more "official" description about time-off with the standard two-weeks that most businesses use, but that probably won't change unless we start to get more employees (or someone abuses the unlimited time off, which hasn't happened so far).
We also have unofficial flex holidays. We're officially closed on federal holidays, but if someone decides that they'd rather get some work done that day, they're encouraged to take that time off later in the year.
Overall, this "unlimited time off" has been a pleasant experience after coming from years at a small business where it had to be staffed 24/7 and the only reason you could call out sick is if you were dying. I was one of the FT people there at the time so I did actually accrue vacation hours, but most people were PT so if they took time off, they didn't get paid. So when I started working at the non-profit and a couple months later was super sick, but came in to work because, well, that's what I was used to, I was astonished when they sent me home and made me stay home a few days until I felt better. Treating your employees like human beings and not just cogs in the machine shouldn't be such a shock, but yay capitalism.
Last year my father unexpectedly passed away the first week into my vacation. I had originally scheduled two-and-a-half weeks off, but it turned out to be almost four weeks just because of everything that had happened and the logistics of traveling to different countries. That's on top of the random days here and there due to appointments, sickness, and long-weekend getaways throughout the year. It was a relief to know that I wouldn't be fired for taking the time to be with my mother and dealing with the funeral and the logistical nightmare of helping my mother move half-way across the world.
Because in my old job, that could have happened -- by taking off more time than I was allowed, they could have given me the ultimatum of "show up when you're scheduled or don't show up ever again." (I doubt that necessarily would have happened since I was one of their best employees, but it wasn't unusual for other staff to be like, "Fine, then I quit.") At bare minimum, I wouldn't have been paid for that time I took off once it exceeded the vacation hours I had accrued, including bereavement (three days).
I don't expect those kind of life-changing events that require a lot of time off to happen frequently (at least, I hope not!), but it's nice to feel secure that if something ever did happen, I wouldn't be stressed about choosing my family or my health over my job.
posted by paisley sheep at 3:20 PM on January 21, 2020
I ran a team of 40 with unlimited at one company, and a team of 70 with unlimited at another. Very different company cultures.
For the team of 40, the absolutely MOST PRODUCTIVE people took the most vacation (work productivity was very easy to quantitatively track) by far. Everyone was responsible about it This company had a 3 week minimum required vacation policy — AND they gave you a $1000 vacation stipend to use if you actually took your three weeks. I loved it because I never felt guilty or like I was "spending" my vacation time or needed to "save days" just in case. This was time-off-heaven.
For the team of 70, it was a mix. Some people abused it (the only time I've heard of this!) and I had employees taking 6-8 weeks of vacation in their first year at the company, or gone nearly 20% of the time during the week. Some people never took it and burned out. This company didn't have a required minimum, but said a lot of bullshit about self-care that they didn't back up in their company culture.
posted by yearly at 5:28 AM on January 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
For the team of 40, the absolutely MOST PRODUCTIVE people took the most vacation (work productivity was very easy to quantitatively track) by far. Everyone was responsible about it This company had a 3 week minimum required vacation policy — AND they gave you a $1000 vacation stipend to use if you actually took your three weeks. I loved it because I never felt guilty or like I was "spending" my vacation time or needed to "save days" just in case. This was time-off-heaven.
For the team of 70, it was a mix. Some people abused it (the only time I've heard of this!) and I had employees taking 6-8 weeks of vacation in their first year at the company, or gone nearly 20% of the time during the week. Some people never took it and burned out. This company didn't have a required minimum, but said a lot of bullshit about self-care that they didn't back up in their company culture.
posted by yearly at 5:28 AM on January 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
I work for a small company (~200) and we have unlimited PTO. We also have a strong, flexible work-from-home culture that existed before we had unlimited PTO and are heavily results driven, so taking random time to wait for the cable installer or go to the doctor was never a problem. With unlimited now, I target normally about 5 weeks a year. I have not received push back at any time when scheduling vacation or taking a random afternoon off either previously or now. Well, except "jokingly" from one boss, but he was an overworked dick.
In talking to my coworkers about our unlimited vacation (many of who are 10+ years younger than me), they struggle to take it, feel they can't find the time, etc. I urge them to take a long weekend a month, plus a week or so vacation a year. That gets them up into at least 3 weeks (our PTO before unlimited) and is never something that anyone would complain about.
posted by chiefthe at 7:17 PM on January 22, 2020
In talking to my coworkers about our unlimited vacation (many of who are 10+ years younger than me), they struggle to take it, feel they can't find the time, etc. I urge them to take a long weekend a month, plus a week or so vacation a year. That gets them up into at least 3 weeks (our PTO before unlimited) and is never something that anyone would complain about.
posted by chiefthe at 7:17 PM on January 22, 2020
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At larger companies (1000+ employees), I have never had an issue. I always made sure to not leave any fires burning and hand off responsibilities, and no one ever gave me any grief.
As a founder of a startup, we instituted an unlimited vacation policy with a minimum. You had to take at least 4 weeks of vacation every year, and we preferred that two weeks were continuous.
Finally, as a manager at a larger company, my explicit policy is to blanket approve vacation for employees who were meeting expectations. I can't imagine any short-term gain from pressuring an employee about vacation ever outweighing the loss of good will associated with it.
posted by AaRdVarK at 8:52 AM on January 21, 2020 [20 favorites]