Should I quit?
January 16, 2020 9:10 AM Subscribe
I’ve been having a very difficult time at my new job. The role isn't what I expected, the culture is challenging, and I am tempted to quit after 6 months.
I’ve been having a very difficult time at my new job. I’ve only been there 6 months. On the surface I can’t complain much - I’m paid very generously for not many hours (more than I would elsewhere). My manager for the most part is supportive. However, it’s very stressful and has a weird culture that has impacted my self esteem.
The main issue is that I’ve produced great work with positive feedback but consistently left out of meetings that are on topics that I work on. I’ve pointed out that my male counterpart in my same department is invited, but I’ve been told my role is different. We’re peers. Which is true but it really upsets me. I’ve also been told not to hire a certain minority as their manager is racist. This is illegal obviously, and I’ve ignored that as I’ve looked for the best candidates in the role. However I feel guilty and not right about hiring people into that situation or even culture. There’s other issues - I am not learning much in my day to day, everything is very slow and ineffective (unlike my other job). While hiring is new for me, I am not sure if I want to build a team here.
I’ve never encountered this in my ten year career and the whole thing really depresses me. I’ve already brought it up twice to my manager and he seems empathetic but not super flexible on it as it sounds like there’s other people who are touchy about it. I could try to go to those people, but I’m at a place where I’m realizing the role and the culture isn’t what I expected.
I’m torn between quitting and gritting it out for at least a year. The industry I work in is a small one, and I feel trapped and concerned that I can’t leave only 6 months in. The other variable here is that I recently bought a house, and I am not super comfortable going without an income (I do have enough to support myself for a year). Assume that it’s not a possibility for me to secretly recruit for another job as I want to leave in good standing (and it’s not an option).
What should I do? I originally wanted to quit but now after sleeping on it, I want to try to grind it out.
I’ve been having a very difficult time at my new job. I’ve only been there 6 months. On the surface I can’t complain much - I’m paid very generously for not many hours (more than I would elsewhere). My manager for the most part is supportive. However, it’s very stressful and has a weird culture that has impacted my self esteem.
The main issue is that I’ve produced great work with positive feedback but consistently left out of meetings that are on topics that I work on. I’ve pointed out that my male counterpart in my same department is invited, but I’ve been told my role is different. We’re peers. Which is true but it really upsets me. I’ve also been told not to hire a certain minority as their manager is racist. This is illegal obviously, and I’ve ignored that as I’ve looked for the best candidates in the role. However I feel guilty and not right about hiring people into that situation or even culture. There’s other issues - I am not learning much in my day to day, everything is very slow and ineffective (unlike my other job). While hiring is new for me, I am not sure if I want to build a team here.
I’ve never encountered this in my ten year career and the whole thing really depresses me. I’ve already brought it up twice to my manager and he seems empathetic but not super flexible on it as it sounds like there’s other people who are touchy about it. I could try to go to those people, but I’m at a place where I’m realizing the role and the culture isn’t what I expected.
I’m torn between quitting and gritting it out for at least a year. The industry I work in is a small one, and I feel trapped and concerned that I can’t leave only 6 months in. The other variable here is that I recently bought a house, and I am not super comfortable going without an income (I do have enough to support myself for a year). Assume that it’s not a possibility for me to secretly recruit for another job as I want to leave in good standing (and it’s not an option).
What should I do? I originally wanted to quit but now after sleeping on it, I want to try to grind it out.
I'm guessing the OP means it's impossible to keep a job search secret in their industry and others will find out if they are hunting while employed.
IF you've decided to grind it out, then grind it out, I guess. Usually the bare minimum people tell you to do is a year anyway, right?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
IF you've decided to grind it out, then grind it out, I guess. Usually the bare minimum people tell you to do is a year anyway, right?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
How much can you disassociate with the job on a daily basis? Because if they're paying you well and you can successfully disassociate with it, you can probably grind out a year. If you can't leave work at work and it's really impacting the rest of your life negatively, you'll want to leave. I don't recommend quitting a job with nothing lined up if you just bought a house and this will leave you living off your savings unless the job is negatively impacting your life so much that you will have a personal mental health catastrophe. Health first.
Outside of work, you can look for opportunities to make yourself whole again by seeking out volunteering, community building, etc. that can help you balance the workplace. Lots of folks do this.
posted by juniperesque at 9:38 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Outside of work, you can look for opportunities to make yourself whole again by seeking out volunteering, community building, etc. that can help you balance the workplace. Lots of folks do this.
posted by juniperesque at 9:38 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Assuming you’re in the US, secretly looking for another job is absolutely what you should do and would not be a problem for any reasonable employer. Employers doing hiring, even in very small industries, should keep it in confidence that you are applying as a courtesy. Otherwise, how does anyone find a new job in your industry? Do they all just wait until they are fired or laid off?
If you stay for a year, what is your plan then if you can’t look for other jobs? Just stay there forever?
The “you have to stay for a year” advice is mostly outdated. If you have a lot of short stints on your resume it is probably a good idea. If your profession history is otherwise solid, you can take a shorter tenure at one place as long as you can articulate why you are leaving. “The role didn’t match what was advertised and I wasn’t growing my skills. Rather than stagnate for a year, I decided to move on so I could continue to build my expertise in x.” Something that makes you sound motivated. I probably wouldn’t bring up the culture stuff in an interview.
posted by jeoc at 9:42 AM on January 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
If you stay for a year, what is your plan then if you can’t look for other jobs? Just stay there forever?
The “you have to stay for a year” advice is mostly outdated. If you have a lot of short stints on your resume it is probably a good idea. If your profession history is otherwise solid, you can take a shorter tenure at one place as long as you can articulate why you are leaving. “The role didn’t match what was advertised and I wasn’t growing my skills. Rather than stagnate for a year, I decided to move on so I could continue to build my expertise in x.” Something that makes you sound motivated. I probably wouldn’t bring up the culture stuff in an interview.
posted by jeoc at 9:42 AM on January 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
I could have been you two years ago, I stayed eighteen months and it is still having ramifications for my health and happiness. I would strongly urge you to get out as quickly as possible, because staying will impact you in ways you can't imagine.
posted by winna at 10:28 AM on January 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by winna at 10:28 AM on January 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
Are you eligible for any sort of leave, paid or unpaid? Medical leave? Might help you stretch out you "at company" time period and give you the space to strategize without fully leaving.
posted by shaademaan at 11:03 AM on January 16, 2020
posted by shaademaan at 11:03 AM on January 16, 2020
Get out!!!
Toxic environments are toxic in the present AND for your future!
They trash your self-esteem and taint your self-concept.
They shift your baseline of what's normal, and inject doubt into your future decision making.
You are likely already inventing coping mechanisms that are bad habits, and those habits will likely impact your work life and interpersonal relationships for years.
Bad environments (all of them- mean bosses, demeaning jobs, abusive romances, dysfunctional family relationships, mismatched cohabitations, underhanded friendships, etc) are so insidious because they chew up your energy and lessen your quality of life while you're in them... AND beyond, for a period of time that's proportionate to how long you spend in the toxic environment. The longer you stay, the longer the ripple effects will taint your future.
Again: Get out!!
If money is truly a thing, definitely start looking for a job asap, and quit (diplomatically) as soon as you have an offer! But if you can package yourself out or afford a little breathing room- quit sooner.
Life is short! Do something cool with yours.
(Source: stayed in a toxic work environment for too long, and 8 years later I'm STILL feeling the reverberations of the self-doubt it imposed on me, which literally costs me money as it makes me less good at my job and less confident taking risks.)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:12 AM on January 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
Toxic environments are toxic in the present AND for your future!
They trash your self-esteem and taint your self-concept.
They shift your baseline of what's normal, and inject doubt into your future decision making.
You are likely already inventing coping mechanisms that are bad habits, and those habits will likely impact your work life and interpersonal relationships for years.
Bad environments (all of them- mean bosses, demeaning jobs, abusive romances, dysfunctional family relationships, mismatched cohabitations, underhanded friendships, etc) are so insidious because they chew up your energy and lessen your quality of life while you're in them... AND beyond, for a period of time that's proportionate to how long you spend in the toxic environment. The longer you stay, the longer the ripple effects will taint your future.
Again: Get out!!
If money is truly a thing, definitely start looking for a job asap, and quit (diplomatically) as soon as you have an offer! But if you can package yourself out or afford a little breathing room- quit sooner.
Life is short! Do something cool with yours.
(Source: stayed in a toxic work environment for too long, and 8 years later I'm STILL feeling the reverberations of the self-doubt it imposed on me, which literally costs me money as it makes me less good at my job and less confident taking risks.)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:12 AM on January 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
If you stick around, can you reframe the issue of not being invited to meetings, which you say is the main issue? While there may be nuances involved that mean it really is a bad thing that you're being excluded, I'm thrilled when I'm not scheduled to be in meetings because it lets me get more productive work done. I also sometimes invite only some of the people involved in a project to meetings because I don't want to take up more people's time than necessary. If you can pivot to appreciate the time it gives you, instead of being upset about it, that would likely improve your situation.
posted by metasarah at 11:18 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by metasarah at 11:18 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not exactly the same situation but you may find the unanimous replies to my recent question helpful
posted by ferret branca at 11:19 AM on January 16, 2020
posted by ferret branca at 11:19 AM on January 16, 2020
The manager stating not to hire a particular race is nuts -- the rest sounds like perhaps you can disassociate as other commenters have suggested.
Generous pay and nice hours might be enough to stay for another six months. Take your money and the manageable hours and try not to take the rest personally.
Learning opportunities are limited at my job. I have to take the initiative to research and learn on my own for the most part. I still won't leave because the hours can't be beat. I'm a "professional" but more like a glorified stewardess some days and that's okay. My skills are underused. I see my job as a way to earn money and benefits (and serve others even though I'm rushing and very busy most days there are still fulfilling encounters). My boss is also crazy.
I used to have more dissatisfaction in my job which was probably a symptom of my general state of mind. Nowadays, I value my job more than ever because I realize that I'm lucky to have such good hours. Life outside of work is very important to me. I can handle the work because I know it's just a job and no job is perfect.
So maybe frame your situation in a different way --you could treasure the fact that you are left out of meetings. Not having to attend meetings sounds wonderful to me.
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:19 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Generous pay and nice hours might be enough to stay for another six months. Take your money and the manageable hours and try not to take the rest personally.
Learning opportunities are limited at my job. I have to take the initiative to research and learn on my own for the most part. I still won't leave because the hours can't be beat. I'm a "professional" but more like a glorified stewardess some days and that's okay. My skills are underused. I see my job as a way to earn money and benefits (and serve others even though I'm rushing and very busy most days there are still fulfilling encounters). My boss is also crazy.
I used to have more dissatisfaction in my job which was probably a symptom of my general state of mind. Nowadays, I value my job more than ever because I realize that I'm lucky to have such good hours. Life outside of work is very important to me. I can handle the work because I know it's just a job and no job is perfect.
So maybe frame your situation in a different way --you could treasure the fact that you are left out of meetings. Not having to attend meetings sounds wonderful to me.
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:19 AM on January 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Plan B. Save as much of your generous income as you possible can. Skimp on everything - that should be your focus. When you have enough to support yourself for a year start looking for another job. When your current employer fires you collect unemployment while continuing your job search. Hire for cultural fit next time, not money. Stress will kill you faster than lack of money.
posted by ptm at 1:03 PM on January 16, 2020
posted by ptm at 1:03 PM on January 16, 2020
I've been trying to deal with the crushing disappointment that is being left out of meetings (like literally all of them) no matter what when I was hired at an equivalent role TO A GOOD FRIEND 2 years ago. It's quite baffling but also the most demoralizing thing possible. No matter what I do and how well I do it, I'm just not invited to the meetings where my boss and he decide everything and meet with clients.
So I get it. And it hurts. It hurts almost more than anything daily, even bad feedback would be better than usually no feedback (or good feedback which is even more baffling).
I almost quit. Then I transitioned to a new thing doing data at the company but... the culture... was bad. Fraud bad. So I'm still here but going to grad school starting next week (for data!). Literally the only way I can stay sane is by imagining that I'm getting paid to go to school. Feel free to memail me if you want, I get so many parts of your question including the culture being ABOUT being ineffective and slow. I think that's because we both bill our hours? I saved my boss and friend 20+ hours of work each last week by automating a task and they were not thankful. I had to beg to even try my automation. I realized in thinking that's because they only care about billing hours.
Meanwhile we also add fake hours to our timesheets so my time is literally meaningless.
So if this sounds familiar:
1. You value efficiency and clarity.
2. Your work seems to not.
3. You get no feedback and are left out of everything.
4. There's no point in doing anything or you have done it so fast that you now have nothing else to do until you're finally given another piece of work.
It is a constant assault on your ego if that's true. You have to plan for how you'll get out whether that's a new job or career transition because they will not change their culture. I really do think it's about the billable hours.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:49 PM on January 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
So I get it. And it hurts. It hurts almost more than anything daily, even bad feedback would be better than usually no feedback (or good feedback which is even more baffling).
I almost quit. Then I transitioned to a new thing doing data at the company but... the culture... was bad. Fraud bad. So I'm still here but going to grad school starting next week (for data!). Literally the only way I can stay sane is by imagining that I'm getting paid to go to school. Feel free to memail me if you want, I get so many parts of your question including the culture being ABOUT being ineffective and slow. I think that's because we both bill our hours? I saved my boss and friend 20+ hours of work each last week by automating a task and they were not thankful. I had to beg to even try my automation. I realized in thinking that's because they only care about billing hours.
Meanwhile we also add fake hours to our timesheets so my time is literally meaningless.
So if this sounds familiar:
1. You value efficiency and clarity.
2. Your work seems to not.
3. You get no feedback and are left out of everything.
4. There's no point in doing anything or you have done it so fast that you now have nothing else to do until you're finally given another piece of work.
It is a constant assault on your ego if that's true. You have to plan for how you'll get out whether that's a new job or career transition because they will not change their culture. I really do think it's about the billable hours.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:49 PM on January 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry this is happening. Start looking for a new job. If your present employer asks why, just say you can't abide this kind of thing:
I’ve also been told not to hire a certain minority as their manager is racist.
Honest to gosh, if someone said that to me, I'd be so astonished I'd slap myself.
Good luck.
posted by james33 at 6:47 AM on January 17, 2020
I’ve also been told not to hire a certain minority as their manager is racist.
Honest to gosh, if someone said that to me, I'd be so astonished I'd slap myself.
Good luck.
posted by james33 at 6:47 AM on January 17, 2020
Another vote for GTFO. Seconding nouvelle-personne, that really spells it out -- it's way more dangerous than you think to stick around.
I hung around a shitty job for far too long -- we were trying to buy a house, and it was taking forever -- and I ended up getting fired a month after we closed. But that turned out to be no big deal; I had savings and found freelance work quickly. But the PTSD from that gig lingered for years /notbitter. You've already got the house, and what sounds like a decent chunk of savings; at the very least you should start actively pursuing your escape.
posted by Bron at 7:36 AM on January 17, 2020
I hung around a shitty job for far too long -- we were trying to buy a house, and it was taking forever -- and I ended up getting fired a month after we closed. But that turned out to be no big deal; I had savings and found freelance work quickly. But the PTSD from that gig lingered for years /notbitter. You've already got the house, and what sounds like a decent chunk of savings; at the very least you should start actively pursuing your escape.
posted by Bron at 7:36 AM on January 17, 2020
I'd leave. I don't think you need to just go without an income - I think the thing to do is secretly job search and quit when you have something else lined up.
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:58 PM on January 17, 2020
posted by Ragged Richard at 1:58 PM on January 17, 2020
OnTheLastCastle mentioned study and that was going to be my suggestion. When I was doing my MBA - half the class could have been you.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:56 PM on January 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:56 PM on January 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
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I don't understand this sentence. It's not an option to get a new job? It's not "good standing" to leave for another job, everyone's just supposed to never work again after working there?
posted by Lyn Never at 9:27 AM on January 16, 2020 [8 favorites]