What processor can/should I upgrade to?
January 7, 2020 11:57 AM Subscribe
My HP desktop has an AMD A4-5300B APU processor, with 8G of RAM. It's too slow. Am I correct that I should update the processor, and if so, to what?
I bought this computer refurbished, dirt cheap. I'm ready to invest a little bit of money to speed it up, if possible. What processor, that has the correct socket (FM2) could I choose? Please note: I know nothing about computer hardware but I'm not afraid to switch parts out.
The main programs I use are photo editors, sometimes inkscape, and my cutting machine software. But even file explorer tasks are painful.
I bought this computer refurbished, dirt cheap. I'm ready to invest a little bit of money to speed it up, if possible. What processor, that has the correct socket (FM2) could I choose? Please note: I know nothing about computer hardware but I'm not afraid to switch parts out.
The main programs I use are photo editors, sometimes inkscape, and my cutting machine software. But even file explorer tasks are painful.
2nding buying a new mobo/cpu combo.
That being said you mentioned that even tasks in File Explorer are... suboptimal. This sounds like you may be well served looking at a storage upgrade first. SSDs are so much cheaper than they were when this processed was new. And so much of perceived performance is reliant on fast access to the file system.
If you already have an SSD as primary storage in this machine you're performance fix may be more complicated.
posted by mce at 12:08 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
That being said you mentioned that even tasks in File Explorer are... suboptimal. This sounds like you may be well served looking at a storage upgrade first. SSDs are so much cheaper than they were when this processed was new. And so much of perceived performance is reliant on fast access to the file system.
If you already have an SSD as primary storage in this machine you're performance fix may be more complicated.
posted by mce at 12:08 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
What kind of hard disk do you have? Is it a magnetic disk or SSD? If it's not an SSD, you'll see more bang for your buck switching to SSD.
You don't say what model HP, but when I'm upgrading a system, I start with the component(s) that likely to be the bottleneck. Before upgrading CPU, make sure that your CPU is actually the bottleneck and not actually the hard drive or insufficient RAM. So without knowing all the other details about your system I'd suggest an SSD if you aren't already using an SSD, then RAM if it will go to 16GB, and then think about a new CPU.
A new motherboard with new components will entail pretty much new everything - you'll probably need new RAM and of course a new CPU, possibly a video card upgrade too. And make sure that the HP system you have takes a standard form factor of motherboard, that's not always the case with low-end cheap consumer systems...
posted by jzb at 12:09 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
You don't say what model HP, but when I'm upgrading a system, I start with the component(s) that likely to be the bottleneck. Before upgrading CPU, make sure that your CPU is actually the bottleneck and not actually the hard drive or insufficient RAM. So without knowing all the other details about your system I'd suggest an SSD if you aren't already using an SSD, then RAM if it will go to 16GB, and then think about a new CPU.
A new motherboard with new components will entail pretty much new everything - you'll probably need new RAM and of course a new CPU, possibly a video card upgrade too. And make sure that the HP system you have takes a standard form factor of motherboard, that's not always the case with low-end cheap consumer systems...
posted by jzb at 12:09 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
File Explorer tasks are IO limited usually. You’d do better to switch out the hard drive for an SSD than replacing the CPU.
The integrated graphics on the CPU mean that you’re sharing your main memory with the GPU over a slow memory bus. You could pick up a cheap graphics card second hand, as that will take some of the pressure off the memory bus, free up a gigabyte or two of memory & generally speed everything up. Pretty much anything modernish will do.
The motherboard socket might be FM2 or FM2+. If it’s FM2 only & you can’t git a separate GPU for space reasons then I think this is roughly the best CPU / integrated GPU you can fit: https://www.newegg.com/amd-a-series-apu-a8-6600k/p/N82E16819113333
BeeDo is correct that your best option is to completely replace the guts of the machine with a new motherboard, CPU and RAM though. RAM is back to being cheap again.
posted by pharm at 12:11 PM on January 7, 2020
The integrated graphics on the CPU mean that you’re sharing your main memory with the GPU over a slow memory bus. You could pick up a cheap graphics card second hand, as that will take some of the pressure off the memory bus, free up a gigabyte or two of memory & generally speed everything up. Pretty much anything modernish will do.
The motherboard socket might be FM2 or FM2+. If it’s FM2 only & you can’t git a separate GPU for space reasons then I think this is roughly the best CPU / integrated GPU you can fit: https://www.newegg.com/amd-a-series-apu-a8-6600k/p/N82E16819113333
BeeDo is correct that your best option is to completely replace the guts of the machine with a new motherboard, CPU and RAM though. RAM is back to being cheap again.
posted by pharm at 12:11 PM on January 7, 2020
Nth-ing that an ssd will make an immediate difference in how responsive the machine is, and you can get a terabyte-ish ssd for USD 100 right now.
Me, I would not invest any money in this machine except for parts that I could move to a new one, unless you're strapped enough that you know that this is your machine for the next several years even if it kinda hurts to use.
Before you start replacing the mb/cpu/ram, it's worth checking that the psu in the machine doesn't use some weird nonstandard pinout that will fry a normal motherboard like hp and dell have done sometimes.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:23 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Me, I would not invest any money in this machine except for parts that I could move to a new one, unless you're strapped enough that you know that this is your machine for the next several years even if it kinda hurts to use.
Before you start replacing the mb/cpu/ram, it's worth checking that the psu in the machine doesn't use some weird nonstandard pinout that will fry a normal motherboard like hp and dell have done sometimes.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:23 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Yikes, this sounds complicated. My hard disk is apparently this SATA one.
posted by kitcat at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2020
posted by kitcat at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2020
In Windows, you can take a look at your hard drive performance by opening Task Manager and going to the Performance tab, and look at Processes review the "Disk" column -- if you're only in the low MB or KB range or using more than 80% of disk bandwidth constantly, a SSD will have a huge impact compared to CPU. If it's the reverse -- fast drive, low Disk usage, but CPU is sitting above 80% constantly, then upgrade your processor.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2020
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2020
Response by poster: That's super interesting. I opened up my cutting software. As it loads, disk goes from 0 to 100 percent. CPU goes from about 10 to between 30 and 60.
posted by kitcat at 12:36 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 12:36 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
In upgrading my old machine (slow Lightroom), I did memory upgrade (8 to 16 gig), then later a new MB with SSD. New one has 8gb memory, and should have been 16, 8 is a bit limiting.
posted by GeeEmm at 1:10 PM on January 7, 2020
posted by GeeEmm at 1:10 PM on January 7, 2020
Should have added: Old memory couldn't be used on new MB, so the 8 to 16gb upgrade was wasted money. I suggest SSD first, then if still unsatisfactory a new MB - with more memory if you think you need it as well.
posted by GeeEmm at 1:13 PM on January 7, 2020
posted by GeeEmm at 1:13 PM on January 7, 2020
Best answer: Yikes, this sounds complicated.
Nah. Whatchadoo is this:
(1) Buy ssd
(2) Buy usb to sata adapter, which'll be cheap, or see if someone in your circle has one to borrow
(3) Download disk cloning software. You *should* be able to get a copy of acronis free from western digital but I won't pinky-swear.
(4) Plug in ssd to usb and run disc cloning software. You might have to futz with stuff in software if you're moving your drive to a bigger drive but usually this is pretty transparent and easy to do. While the drive is copying, keep muttering Baby Elephant Walk to yourself.
(5) Turn off, unplug, and open machine. Unplug cables from hard drive and plug them into ssd. Wedge ssd somewhere, or if you feel really fancy screw it into a disk bay. The computer's manual should be avail online and should say where you can screw in a 2.5" drive.
(6) Restart machine.
(7) If you're feeling moderately fancy, get another sata cable and find another sata power cable in the rats-nest from the power supply and turn your existing hard drive into a secondary drive.
(8) If you're feeling really fancy, remove the old hard drive and bash it open and take out the ridiculously strong li'l magnet inside. They make the best maflidgetator magnets.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:41 PM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
Nah. Whatchadoo is this:
(1) Buy ssd
(2) Buy usb to sata adapter, which'll be cheap, or see if someone in your circle has one to borrow
(3) Download disk cloning software. You *should* be able to get a copy of acronis free from western digital but I won't pinky-swear.
(4) Plug in ssd to usb and run disc cloning software. You might have to futz with stuff in software if you're moving your drive to a bigger drive but usually this is pretty transparent and easy to do. While the drive is copying, keep muttering Baby Elephant Walk to yourself.
(5) Turn off, unplug, and open machine. Unplug cables from hard drive and plug them into ssd. Wedge ssd somewhere, or if you feel really fancy screw it into a disk bay. The computer's manual should be avail online and should say where you can screw in a 2.5" drive.
(6) Restart machine.
(7) If you're feeling moderately fancy, get another sata cable and find another sata power cable in the rats-nest from the power supply and turn your existing hard drive into a secondary drive.
(8) If you're feeling really fancy, remove the old hard drive and bash it open and take out the ridiculously strong li'l magnet inside. They make the best maflidgetator magnets.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:41 PM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
The hard part of swapping out the hard drive in there for an SSD will be migrating the data - ideally you should get a 480-512GB (or larger) 2.5" SATA SSD, mainly to make the migration easier as the new drive will be roughly the same size as the old, and a SATA-to-USB adapter such as perhaps this (which includes a power supply - spinning disk drives take some power to run, so having an actual wall plug is a good idea). That particular adapter/dock thing comes with Acronis TrueImage, which you can use to clone your existing drive to the new one - put the new one in the dock, clone, swap the drives in the computer, and put the old one in the dock for backups or extra storage or whatever. (There are other options for disk cloning including just using a Linux live CD/USB type thing too, but that comes with software, so might as well use that.) You may also need a 2.5" to 3.5" mounting adapter for the new SSD as they don't come in the larger 3.5" format. The cabling is all the same but the SATA SSD will be physically smaller. The only other thing to consider would be SSD brand; Intel and Samsung are the top-end brands and their higher-end models will likely be faster than your computer can really take advantage of. The last one I bought was Adata or Patriot or TeamGroup or something along those lines and has been working fine.
I would specifically not recommend upgrading a CPU in an HP, from experience - I've swapped a (much) faster (and higher power draw, but with other stuff) CPU into an HP all-in-one desktop and, while it works fine after it's booted up, the system was basically shipped with a list in the firmware of all the specific CPUs that they were gonna sell it with and it balks and tries to shut down if it encounters another CPU that's not on that particular list. This does make sense a bit other than trying to get you to buy a faster computer - Socket FM2 spans a wide range of chips and capabilities, of different power draws and such, so while you might be able to swap in a 6-core AMD FX CPU that's also Socket FM2, you might now be plopping in a CPU that draws significantly more power than the system is designed to deal with and potentially that doesn't have onboard graphics, which you probably need unless you've also got a separate graphics card. (And, as others have noted, you're probably I/O and RAM-limited more than anything anyway. If you can't get the data to the CPU quickly, or provide it with enough space to do calculations in RAM, a faster CPU is basically just gonna sit there twiddling its thumbs.)
posted by mrg at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I would specifically not recommend upgrading a CPU in an HP, from experience - I've swapped a (much) faster (and higher power draw, but with other stuff) CPU into an HP all-in-one desktop and, while it works fine after it's booted up, the system was basically shipped with a list in the firmware of all the specific CPUs that they were gonna sell it with and it balks and tries to shut down if it encounters another CPU that's not on that particular list. This does make sense a bit other than trying to get you to buy a faster computer - Socket FM2 spans a wide range of chips and capabilities, of different power draws and such, so while you might be able to swap in a 6-core AMD FX CPU that's also Socket FM2, you might now be plopping in a CPU that draws significantly more power than the system is designed to deal with and potentially that doesn't have onboard graphics, which you probably need unless you've also got a separate graphics card. (And, as others have noted, you're probably I/O and RAM-limited more than anything anyway. If you can't get the data to the CPU quickly, or provide it with enough space to do calculations in RAM, a faster CPU is basically just gonna sit there twiddling its thumbs.)
posted by mrg at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
CPU compatibility is based on more than just the socket, for example, the motherboard must support the CPU on a firmware level as well. Sometimes, newer generations of processors made for the same socket will be made compatible with a motherboards via a BIOS update, which usually involves downloading a ROM file onto a usb or other removeable media, booting into the BIOS, and navigating the menu to upgrade the version. Some manufacturers will be better than others in their support. You will have yo look up your specific HP model, and/or or the specific motherboard model.
Based on the info given so far, and my assumption you want to spend as little as possible, I would asuume the maximum APU your motheboard is likely to support is something like the A10 5800B or its "richland" equivalent, depending on HP's bios updates. Look if your model haas BIOS updates and chack the notes for something like "adds support for richland APUs" or something.
The thing is, old processors tend to be annoyingly expensive for their age and generally not worth it unless you find a steal locally or on ebay or something. As others have pointed out, your best price/performance improvement bet might be an SSD. You can probably drop by your local Best Buy or whatever and buy the cheapest one they have, probably around $20-$30.
The thing is, hardware this old is often more expensive than its worth to upgrade. If you are set on a processor upgrade, probably the A10 5800 or A10 6800 if you're lucky.
posted by hypercomplexsimplicity at 3:58 PM on January 7, 2020
Based on the info given so far, and my assumption you want to spend as little as possible, I would asuume the maximum APU your motheboard is likely to support is something like the A10 5800B or its "richland" equivalent, depending on HP's bios updates. Look if your model haas BIOS updates and chack the notes for something like "adds support for richland APUs" or something.
The thing is, old processors tend to be annoyingly expensive for their age and generally not worth it unless you find a steal locally or on ebay or something. As others have pointed out, your best price/performance improvement bet might be an SSD. You can probably drop by your local Best Buy or whatever and buy the cheapest one they have, probably around $20-$30.
The thing is, hardware this old is often more expensive than its worth to upgrade. If you are set on a processor upgrade, probably the A10 5800 or A10 6800 if you're lucky.
posted by hypercomplexsimplicity at 3:58 PM on January 7, 2020
Response by poster: Thanks all, SSD it is!
posted by kitcat at 8:01 AM on January 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 8:01 AM on January 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by BeeDo at 12:02 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]