Tick tock tick tock
January 3, 2020 7:41 AM Subscribe
My boyfriend is stalling about taking our nearly 6 year relationship to the next step. I want to save the relationship, but not sure if I can or should. Warning: long.
I’m almost 30F, he’s 25M. I was his first everything, while he was my first most things. We graduated at the same time (I went back to school) so despite the age gap I had felt we were at similar life stages. Currently I’m in a career I love and can see my whole future trajectory; he is in an objectively very good job but hates it and has not worked out what he wants out of a career. We were at the small college town for the first 3 years, then lived in different cities for 2. 6 months ago I moved to his big city which is also my hometown, and I lived with my family until very recently.
He’s my best friend. We share similar values, rhythm in life, backgrounds and intellectual connection. We like the same food, come from the same culture, share our struggles with cultural identity. We know exactly how to make each other laugh. I light up when I spot him across the street; I look at his face and still feels me with love. There is a warm, contented comfort between us and the little moments like our silly routines or silly words just fills me with joy. He just gets me. We met through an activity, which is a significant part of our lives and a primary passion of his; in this respect I also feel that we are comrades.
2 years ago we started conversations about the future. He said he is serious about our relationship, and 100% wants children and marriage in the future, but this is far ahead and can’t envisage clearly right now. I also wanted to establish myself in my career first, and he was still young, and we were long distance. We also had issues around communication at the time, which we worked at and has improved significantly. I brought it up a few more times; each time the communication is a bit better but nothing concretely changes. Each time, I would say it’s OK for now, as what we currently have is good and I don’t want to leave. I was disappointed when he didn't want to live together, for reasons that were no clearer than thinking about the future is scary. But again, I made excuses like cultural influences, me wanting to save money, etc, and thought it would happen soon.
But in the last year he has started to express a loose desire about wanting to go and live abroad for a year while he is still young, in order to fulfil a lifelong dream about our shared activity. I support this, and I would go with him had I not been locked into my current career for at least another 2 years (this is non-negotiable). He is thinking sometime in late 2020, but he’s not sure of specific timelines, logistics or locations yet. Finally I told him in the summer that he needs to tell me what he wants to do by November, and then we should come to a decision about what we want to do about us by January when I turn 30. Last week we talked again. He said he is sure he does want to go at some point, he will regret it later in his life if he doesn’t, but still can’t give me firm dates or plans. Regarding us, he… he loves me and cares for me. He doesn’t want to make me unhappy. He doesn’t know what to do about us, which is why his plans for this is also non-concrete.
I just… broke. All of a sudden I was just so done with always initiating these conversations, feeling like the naggy one, feeling like I was expecting too much. I cried every day since. I went on a facebook spree (tip: don’t do this, EVER) about all the people who are married; those who met after we were together, or those who got married at ages I’ve now surpassed. I 100% want children (2 ideally, but 1 would be OK). I start doing the maths and panic: if I want a kid by 35, then I’d really like to be engaged like, next year. if I have to start over with a new person… I have no time to waste. That is, if I can even find anyone at age 30. All my friends are coupled. Every advice comes from the vantage point that things turned out OK, that they met their husband to be straight after - but I’m sure there are also cases where it didn’t, and where I would still be single and 40. I google how to freeze my eggs and cry. I think about how old my parents have become and it breaks my heart that they won’t be able to spend much time with their grandchildren. Basically I start to lose my mind.
After a few days we talked again. This time I was honest, laying out my expectations. I said that we do have something special together and really want to make us work. Here are my desires regarding children and timelines and commitment. I would support his desires about going abroad, or whatever they are, but we have to come to a compromise to ensure both of our needs are met. If we can't, then we are not compatible anymore. I asked him directly whether he can see himself married to me sometime in the future. He said yes, but the concept is so far away. He said he needs more time to think and he will come back to me in a week.
I think (though he hasn’t said this in words), the concept of marriage to him is something which ends life as you currently know it and should only be embarked on once you’ve figured everything out; he still wants to have the freedom of being young and without responsibility. (Previously, he did admit about being curious about other people - but now he says he has got over that particular hangup and was happy with me. I do believe him about this, having known him for 6 years.) Perhaps I am idealistic - but to me, marriage (not kids!) is not something that needs to be restrictive. I know plenty of married couples changing careers, going to grad school, moving countries, travelling the world; heck, I even know one with a long distance marriage. It’s not about the white picket fence, it’s about creating a joined future together. At the moment I feel that we are two circles on a Venn diagram - two individuals who sometimes crosses over. But marriage should be about creating a third new circle that is Team Us. Perhaps this is something that should already have happened after six years, marriage or not, and that I’m approaching it backwards by trying to force towards marriage to make this happen.
I just can’t fathom breaking up. Practically, our lives are intertwined; I would also lose my community in our shared activity, which I have also dedicated years of my life to. I fear I’ll never find anyone so compatible again, especially starting at this age. And it just breaks me up thinking about ending what we have. He looks so, desperately sad and conflicted each time we talk. There are daily reminders of the six years we’ve spent together in the form of experiences, objects, presents, friends, thoughts. I know he loves me and cares for me. Why is that not enough for him? Is he really OK with losing me?
My friends all tell me I have to end it, that I need to put myself first, that I am not wrong for wanting marriage, that it is hurtful to be stalled like this. If I was my friend I would also say the same. But in my heart I just, desperately, want this relationship to work out, in some way, any way. I think, if only I was able to be patient and wait until he's ready it'll all be fine. I keep looking for stories where this kind of situation has worked out to give me hope. I know part of it is irrational fear about being 30.
Please help.
I’m almost 30F, he’s 25M. I was his first everything, while he was my first most things. We graduated at the same time (I went back to school) so despite the age gap I had felt we were at similar life stages. Currently I’m in a career I love and can see my whole future trajectory; he is in an objectively very good job but hates it and has not worked out what he wants out of a career. We were at the small college town for the first 3 years, then lived in different cities for 2. 6 months ago I moved to his big city which is also my hometown, and I lived with my family until very recently.
He’s my best friend. We share similar values, rhythm in life, backgrounds and intellectual connection. We like the same food, come from the same culture, share our struggles with cultural identity. We know exactly how to make each other laugh. I light up when I spot him across the street; I look at his face and still feels me with love. There is a warm, contented comfort between us and the little moments like our silly routines or silly words just fills me with joy. He just gets me. We met through an activity, which is a significant part of our lives and a primary passion of his; in this respect I also feel that we are comrades.
2 years ago we started conversations about the future. He said he is serious about our relationship, and 100% wants children and marriage in the future, but this is far ahead and can’t envisage clearly right now. I also wanted to establish myself in my career first, and he was still young, and we were long distance. We also had issues around communication at the time, which we worked at and has improved significantly. I brought it up a few more times; each time the communication is a bit better but nothing concretely changes. Each time, I would say it’s OK for now, as what we currently have is good and I don’t want to leave. I was disappointed when he didn't want to live together, for reasons that were no clearer than thinking about the future is scary. But again, I made excuses like cultural influences, me wanting to save money, etc, and thought it would happen soon.
But in the last year he has started to express a loose desire about wanting to go and live abroad for a year while he is still young, in order to fulfil a lifelong dream about our shared activity. I support this, and I would go with him had I not been locked into my current career for at least another 2 years (this is non-negotiable). He is thinking sometime in late 2020, but he’s not sure of specific timelines, logistics or locations yet. Finally I told him in the summer that he needs to tell me what he wants to do by November, and then we should come to a decision about what we want to do about us by January when I turn 30. Last week we talked again. He said he is sure he does want to go at some point, he will regret it later in his life if he doesn’t, but still can’t give me firm dates or plans. Regarding us, he… he loves me and cares for me. He doesn’t want to make me unhappy. He doesn’t know what to do about us, which is why his plans for this is also non-concrete.
I just… broke. All of a sudden I was just so done with always initiating these conversations, feeling like the naggy one, feeling like I was expecting too much. I cried every day since. I went on a facebook spree (tip: don’t do this, EVER) about all the people who are married; those who met after we were together, or those who got married at ages I’ve now surpassed. I 100% want children (2 ideally, but 1 would be OK). I start doing the maths and panic: if I want a kid by 35, then I’d really like to be engaged like, next year. if I have to start over with a new person… I have no time to waste. That is, if I can even find anyone at age 30. All my friends are coupled. Every advice comes from the vantage point that things turned out OK, that they met their husband to be straight after - but I’m sure there are also cases where it didn’t, and where I would still be single and 40. I google how to freeze my eggs and cry. I think about how old my parents have become and it breaks my heart that they won’t be able to spend much time with their grandchildren. Basically I start to lose my mind.
After a few days we talked again. This time I was honest, laying out my expectations. I said that we do have something special together and really want to make us work. Here are my desires regarding children and timelines and commitment. I would support his desires about going abroad, or whatever they are, but we have to come to a compromise to ensure both of our needs are met. If we can't, then we are not compatible anymore. I asked him directly whether he can see himself married to me sometime in the future. He said yes, but the concept is so far away. He said he needs more time to think and he will come back to me in a week.
I think (though he hasn’t said this in words), the concept of marriage to him is something which ends life as you currently know it and should only be embarked on once you’ve figured everything out; he still wants to have the freedom of being young and without responsibility. (Previously, he did admit about being curious about other people - but now he says he has got over that particular hangup and was happy with me. I do believe him about this, having known him for 6 years.) Perhaps I am idealistic - but to me, marriage (not kids!) is not something that needs to be restrictive. I know plenty of married couples changing careers, going to grad school, moving countries, travelling the world; heck, I even know one with a long distance marriage. It’s not about the white picket fence, it’s about creating a joined future together. At the moment I feel that we are two circles on a Venn diagram - two individuals who sometimes crosses over. But marriage should be about creating a third new circle that is Team Us. Perhaps this is something that should already have happened after six years, marriage or not, and that I’m approaching it backwards by trying to force towards marriage to make this happen.
I just can’t fathom breaking up. Practically, our lives are intertwined; I would also lose my community in our shared activity, which I have also dedicated years of my life to. I fear I’ll never find anyone so compatible again, especially starting at this age. And it just breaks me up thinking about ending what we have. He looks so, desperately sad and conflicted each time we talk. There are daily reminders of the six years we’ve spent together in the form of experiences, objects, presents, friends, thoughts. I know he loves me and cares for me. Why is that not enough for him? Is he really OK with losing me?
My friends all tell me I have to end it, that I need to put myself first, that I am not wrong for wanting marriage, that it is hurtful to be stalled like this. If I was my friend I would also say the same. But in my heart I just, desperately, want this relationship to work out, in some way, any way. I think, if only I was able to be patient and wait until he's ready it'll all be fine. I keep looking for stories where this kind of situation has worked out to give me hope. I know part of it is irrational fear about being 30.
Please help.
I think, if only I was able to be patient and wait until he's ready it'll all be fine.
I’ve been there. He’ll always keep you waiting. It sucks to have to initiate the breakup, too, because it’s yet another thing where he’s not showing initiative, but he’s never going to break up with you because he’s got the relationship he wants, even though it’s not the relationship you want.
I’m sorry.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:50 AM on January 3, 2020 [49 favorites]
I’ve been there. He’ll always keep you waiting. It sucks to have to initiate the breakup, too, because it’s yet another thing where he’s not showing initiative, but he’s never going to break up with you because he’s got the relationship he wants, even though it’s not the relationship you want.
I’m sorry.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:50 AM on January 3, 2020 [49 favorites]
I'm sorry. It's hard to end a relationship, especially one that has so many good parts and memories. But you are at different places in life. You want a commitment and children and he can't give that to you. And don't be tempted to tack the 'right now' back on to that sentence--that doesn't change the reality that he's no committing to marriage and children--or even giving you a commitment to his own dream pursuits. He won't give it to you. He is not committing to marriage and kids. He is not committing to the future you want. Go your separate ways and pursue you separate dreams.
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:56 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:56 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you live anywhere other than a rural area, I would temper your fears about dating over 30. True, lots of crappy men want women in their 20s - but that means it will actually make your search easier, because men who will waste your time are eliminated from the pool. Being over 30 might save you a lot of bad dates and crappy relationships, especially if you are finding people online.
I hope you don't lose your community, because it's so important after a hard breakup. I hope his desire to move away can prevent that from happening, and maybe that's something you can negotiate for.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 8:03 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I hope you don't lose your community, because it's so important after a hard breakup. I hope his desire to move away can prevent that from happening, and maybe that's something you can negotiate for.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 8:03 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Oh, I'm so very sorry. I know just how much this hurts, and is going to ache horribly for a good long while.
I agree he is not ready, and is not going to be able to commit to the things you want anytime soon. Please believe me when I say that hanging around "patiently" waiting around for someone to catch up to where you are is a TERRIBLE, soul-draining, express-train-to-resentment kind of purgatory that rarely ends well and I would strive to avoid this at all costs even if it seems like it will be less painful than the alternative.
I think it is time to courageously let him go, spend some time healing yourself, and pursue your own separate paths. In these situations, I believe that if it is truly meant to be, you will find each other again at some point. Take care of yourself.
posted by anderjen at 8:06 AM on January 3, 2020 [13 favorites]
I agree he is not ready, and is not going to be able to commit to the things you want anytime soon. Please believe me when I say that hanging around "patiently" waiting around for someone to catch up to where you are is a TERRIBLE, soul-draining, express-train-to-resentment kind of purgatory that rarely ends well and I would strive to avoid this at all costs even if it seems like it will be less painful than the alternative.
I think it is time to courageously let him go, spend some time healing yourself, and pursue your own separate paths. In these situations, I believe that if it is truly meant to be, you will find each other again at some point. Take care of yourself.
posted by anderjen at 8:06 AM on January 3, 2020 [13 favorites]
marriage (not kids!) is not something that needs to be restrictive. I know plenty of married couples changing careers, going to grad school, moving countries, travelling the world
have you told him this? this might be something he needs to hear, that you aren't going to lock him down from adventure when you're married. that you envision doing awesome things with him when you're married, not just settle into a life at home on the couch.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:07 AM on January 3, 2020 [15 favorites]
have you told him this? this might be something he needs to hear, that you aren't going to lock him down from adventure when you're married. that you envision doing awesome things with him when you're married, not just settle into a life at home on the couch.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 8:07 AM on January 3, 2020 [15 favorites]
Yeah, you had a good run. But you want something that he doesn't.
Be aware though - in his future life, he'll most likely be thinking of you as The One That Got Away. He'll do all sorts of pining & whining & wanting to get back together, even if you're both with other people at whatever point you run into each other again. So be prepared for that when it happens.
posted by rd45 at 8:08 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
Be aware though - in his future life, he'll most likely be thinking of you as The One That Got Away. He'll do all sorts of pining & whining & wanting to get back together, even if you're both with other people at whatever point you run into each other again. So be prepared for that when it happens.
posted by rd45 at 8:08 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
Yeah, have been there, was not exactly this dude but certainly an analogue to this dude, was devastated when I got broke up with but it was the absolute right thing to do. Go, boom.
posted by ominous_paws at 8:31 AM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 8:31 AM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
I don't usually respond to relationship questions, and you've gotten some good advice already, but I want to give my take on one thing you said:
I fear I’ll never find anyone so compatible again [my emphasis]
Your conversations about your future have revealed that you are, in fact, not compatible. You want different things out of life. The fact that you feel comfortable together doesn't change the fundamental incompatibility of your current goals. Waiting around is a bad idea, because unless you change your own goals, it just means that you're relying on the slim hope that he will change his. As my favorite advice columnist, Carolyn Hax, often says, you can't change other people, only how you react to them.
Break up. Let him go off to live overseas. Meet new people and date them. Encourage him to do the same. Stay connected to your shared activity and its community—he doesn't "own" it. It will hurt, but it's the only way you'll find someone who wants to follow the same path as you in life.
posted by brianogilvie at 8:34 AM on January 3, 2020 [43 favorites]
I fear I’ll never find anyone so compatible again [my emphasis]
Your conversations about your future have revealed that you are, in fact, not compatible. You want different things out of life. The fact that you feel comfortable together doesn't change the fundamental incompatibility of your current goals. Waiting around is a bad idea, because unless you change your own goals, it just means that you're relying on the slim hope that he will change his. As my favorite advice columnist, Carolyn Hax, often says, you can't change other people, only how you react to them.
Break up. Let him go off to live overseas. Meet new people and date them. Encourage him to do the same. Stay connected to your shared activity and its community—he doesn't "own" it. It will hurt, but it's the only way you'll find someone who wants to follow the same path as you in life.
posted by brianogilvie at 8:34 AM on January 3, 2020 [43 favorites]
The two of you were a really good match, until you weren't. If I were you, I would not want to wait for marriage and children. If I were him, I would not want to feel tied down to marriage and children at the age of 25. Neither of you are wrong, you just want different things. Don't force a future on him that he clearly doesn't want. Don't settle for a future for yourself that you clearly don't want.
Breaking up is painful but that doesn't make him a bad guy or you a bad gal. The timing sucks. It's that simple. Let him go so you can each be free to find a better match and create the different futures that you each need. Those 5+ years weren't wasted. You spent that time with a wonderful person who made you laugh and together you experienced great joy. Break up now, before you become truly resentful and can still appreciate your partner as a good person. Break up now, before you become ever more desperate to force a solution that is no solution at all. Break up now, because it is what you need to take care of yourself.
If he is not hell yes about marriage and children now, don't wait. Break up, even though you love him. Break up, even though he is wonderful in so many ways. Break up, because you need to love yourself and your own future even more.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:35 AM on January 3, 2020 [17 favorites]
Breaking up is painful but that doesn't make him a bad guy or you a bad gal. The timing sucks. It's that simple. Let him go so you can each be free to find a better match and create the different futures that you each need. Those 5+ years weren't wasted. You spent that time with a wonderful person who made you laugh and together you experienced great joy. Break up now, before you become truly resentful and can still appreciate your partner as a good person. Break up now, before you become ever more desperate to force a solution that is no solution at all. Break up now, because it is what you need to take care of yourself.
If he is not hell yes about marriage and children now, don't wait. Break up, even though you love him. Break up, even though he is wonderful in so many ways. Break up, because you need to love yourself and your own future even more.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:35 AM on January 3, 2020 [17 favorites]
Oh dear. This is sad and hard. You were so young when you started dating. He was especially young, 19 right? He needs to sow his oats. He needs to adventure a bit. Yes, this can be compatible with marriage, but only if he feels that way. I don’t doubt he loves you and you all care about each other a great deal. But you can’t wait for him. He has some ambivalence about your relationship that can’t be resolved while he’s with you.
I just ended a relationship with a lovely man a younger than I am. We were also best friends, and he was also stumbling when we would have big picture talks about our future. He could see it, but he also had this deep yearning to do more exploring. I know in my bones now that he could never have resolved this while we were together.
It’s sad and hard, but the thing is... even if he were to panic and agree to escalate, it wouldn’t resolve the ambivalence. He’d leave when your kids were young, and he’d go out too much, or he’d be home and miserable.
Please let him go. You’ll be okay. There’s a great chance you’ll find someone who is amazing for you in a different set of ways. It’s time to move on. Good luck. Take comfort with your friends and family.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:36 AM on January 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
I just ended a relationship with a lovely man a younger than I am. We were also best friends, and he was also stumbling when we would have big picture talks about our future. He could see it, but he also had this deep yearning to do more exploring. I know in my bones now that he could never have resolved this while we were together.
It’s sad and hard, but the thing is... even if he were to panic and agree to escalate, it wouldn’t resolve the ambivalence. He’d leave when your kids were young, and he’d go out too much, or he’d be home and miserable.
Please let him go. You’ll be okay. There’s a great chance you’ll find someone who is amazing for you in a different set of ways. It’s time to move on. Good luck. Take comfort with your friends and family.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:36 AM on January 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
You know how I know you'll find someone more compatible? Because a relationship is about two people actively working to understand and love each other. To be compatible. He isn't doing that. We think when we're kids then young adults that compatibility just happens... and sometimes it does, but it isn't for everything and we have to work on the rough edges to either accommodate, accept or politely ignore with the understanding that it's balanced out.
Maybe he could, but it doesn't sound like he wants to. Listen when someone tells you what they really want but are "afraid of making you unhappy". They're hedging and softening it, but it is what they want. It'll come out in a torrent later after it builds up for a long time.
I'm glad I realized this and ended one long term relationship (as the man) in my mid-20s. I was the one waffling and didn't want to waste her time. It wasn't the right relationship, I realize that now. I stayed in another for too long where we were very good together, but it wasn't working for other reasons. Now I have what all signs point to is my person, and every day is our actively working to deepen and grow. I can't wait to marry her.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:50 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
Maybe he could, but it doesn't sound like he wants to. Listen when someone tells you what they really want but are "afraid of making you unhappy". They're hedging and softening it, but it is what they want. It'll come out in a torrent later after it builds up for a long time.
I'm glad I realized this and ended one long term relationship (as the man) in my mid-20s. I was the one waffling and didn't want to waste her time. It wasn't the right relationship, I realize that now. I stayed in another for too long where we were very good together, but it wasn't working for other reasons. Now I have what all signs point to is my person, and every day is our actively working to deepen and grow. I can't wait to marry her.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:50 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
You need to break up. I was in a situation with similar parameters up until a couple of years ago. For me, it was a 6-year relationship, we met in my mid-/late-20s, I was over 30 at the end, I desperately wanted to be married and have children and felt increasingly anxious about not being so, the path towards engagement and marriage for us was complicated through distance and visa issues etc., and the last couple of years of the relationship I too would go on Facebook and cry and then Google egg freezing. I loved him and he was wonderful and the relationship otherwise was wonderful.
Thing is, what I realized is that love's not enough. It's less about the person's or the relationship's good qualities in the abstract, and more about how the other person's trajectory for his life intersects with what you want in your trajectory. It's as much about right timing and right place as right person. You have no one soulmate: there are other right men out there, and at least one of them will want what you want on the timescale that you want it. The summer before I broke up with my ex-boyfriend, when I was considering it over and over, I finally came to the realization that in a couple of years' time, I would rather be married to someone else than be in the same girlfriend limbo with the same guy I was with. Marriage (and a baby) was more important to me than staying with my ex-boyfriend. This was very clarifying for me and started me on the months-long process towards finally breaking up.
I won't lie: breaking up was awful. I wasn't able to force myself to pull the trigger at first. I was not only losing my future as I had imagined it with this man, but I was also losing my best friend. And the fact that the break-up wasn't precipitated by obvious incompatibility or abuse or adultery made it more difficult. I too had delayed breaking up because of fear of dating after age 30. I'll be honest that dating was in fact more difficult than six years prior, for me: there seemed to be fewer men available online, and many of kind of guys I'd meet in real life in whom I'd be interested were already taken. Some men did prefer women younger than I was. Plus, because of my age and fertility concerns, there was a pressure on the whole thing that was unpleasant. Nevertheless, I did a lot of dating, and finally ended up in a whirlwind relationship with a wonderful man whom I married this past summer. It was clear early on that we were a great fit. He proposed after only a few months, with no prompting, and was as excited at the prospect of marrying me as I was of marrying him. He had been in past relationships where his girlfriends had stalled and dragged their feet about marriage. We both found the other's keenness exhilarating and refreshing. We hope to have a baby this year. Will you have the same good fortune? I hope so, but you can't even be in the running for it if you don't open yourself up to it by becoming single.
You should break up right now. My biggest regret is not breaking up with my ex-boyfriend sooner (or at least, clarifying the hard contours of the situation sooner). From what you've said, it's clear that your boyfriend is not going to marry you on any sort of timescale that would be remotely acceptable to you - if ever. If he were remotely interested in marrying you on your timescale, he would have said it. He hasn't said it because he isn't sure he wants to marry you. He's either not ready to marry in general, or not ready to marry you specifically. It doesn't matter which because the result for you is the same. And you'd regret it and resent him if you had to force him kicking and screaming to the altar, even if you were to be able to persuade him. There are other men out there who are also wonderful who already want what you want. Break up with your boyfriend and go find one of them to marry.
posted by ClaireBear at 8:54 AM on January 3, 2020 [21 favorites]
Thing is, what I realized is that love's not enough. It's less about the person's or the relationship's good qualities in the abstract, and more about how the other person's trajectory for his life intersects with what you want in your trajectory. It's as much about right timing and right place as right person. You have no one soulmate: there are other right men out there, and at least one of them will want what you want on the timescale that you want it. The summer before I broke up with my ex-boyfriend, when I was considering it over and over, I finally came to the realization that in a couple of years' time, I would rather be married to someone else than be in the same girlfriend limbo with the same guy I was with. Marriage (and a baby) was more important to me than staying with my ex-boyfriend. This was very clarifying for me and started me on the months-long process towards finally breaking up.
I won't lie: breaking up was awful. I wasn't able to force myself to pull the trigger at first. I was not only losing my future as I had imagined it with this man, but I was also losing my best friend. And the fact that the break-up wasn't precipitated by obvious incompatibility or abuse or adultery made it more difficult. I too had delayed breaking up because of fear of dating after age 30. I'll be honest that dating was in fact more difficult than six years prior, for me: there seemed to be fewer men available online, and many of kind of guys I'd meet in real life in whom I'd be interested were already taken. Some men did prefer women younger than I was. Plus, because of my age and fertility concerns, there was a pressure on the whole thing that was unpleasant. Nevertheless, I did a lot of dating, and finally ended up in a whirlwind relationship with a wonderful man whom I married this past summer. It was clear early on that we were a great fit. He proposed after only a few months, with no prompting, and was as excited at the prospect of marrying me as I was of marrying him. He had been in past relationships where his girlfriends had stalled and dragged their feet about marriage. We both found the other's keenness exhilarating and refreshing. We hope to have a baby this year. Will you have the same good fortune? I hope so, but you can't even be in the running for it if you don't open yourself up to it by becoming single.
You should break up right now. My biggest regret is not breaking up with my ex-boyfriend sooner (or at least, clarifying the hard contours of the situation sooner). From what you've said, it's clear that your boyfriend is not going to marry you on any sort of timescale that would be remotely acceptable to you - if ever. If he were remotely interested in marrying you on your timescale, he would have said it. He hasn't said it because he isn't sure he wants to marry you. He's either not ready to marry in general, or not ready to marry you specifically. It doesn't matter which because the result for you is the same. And you'd regret it and resent him if you had to force him kicking and screaming to the altar, even if you were to be able to persuade him. There are other men out there who are also wonderful who already want what you want. Break up with your boyfriend and go find one of them to marry.
posted by ClaireBear at 8:54 AM on January 3, 2020 [21 favorites]
I second the person who recommended you to talk to him about what marriage means to you.
A few years ago, I was in a similar boat. My boyfriend (one year younger than me) never wanted to get married at all, because he thought it meant he had to work a boring job and support a wife who stayed at home. I told him I would hate being a housewife, and we moved in together, I worked while he got his master's, and then we got married and I quit my job to get my master's. We also moved between two different countries and will likely move again. Sure we have less freedom (he can't just pack and move to another country that doesn't have jobs for me), but also more support.
But I also think that maybe your boyfriend might only use this "marriage is so restrictive" argument to avoid making a commitment to you. If you can't get any convincing answers out of him that YOU personally can believe, maybe it's time to look for someone else.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 9:58 AM on January 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
A few years ago, I was in a similar boat. My boyfriend (one year younger than me) never wanted to get married at all, because he thought it meant he had to work a boring job and support a wife who stayed at home. I told him I would hate being a housewife, and we moved in together, I worked while he got his master's, and then we got married and I quit my job to get my master's. We also moved between two different countries and will likely move again. Sure we have less freedom (he can't just pack and move to another country that doesn't have jobs for me), but also more support.
But I also think that maybe your boyfriend might only use this "marriage is so restrictive" argument to avoid making a commitment to you. If you can't get any convincing answers out of him that YOU personally can believe, maybe it's time to look for someone else.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 9:58 AM on January 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
This appears to be pretty straightforward: He wants to cut loose and enjoy his 20s. You want to settle down.
You can talk around it all you want but it's still going to come back to that. Unless you can find a way to meld those two lifestyles (and I have no idea how you would) you're just going to make each other unhappy.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:58 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
You can talk around it all you want but it's still going to come back to that. Unless you can find a way to meld those two lifestyles (and I have no idea how you would) you're just going to make each other unhappy.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:58 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
He’s too young to be ready for marriage. I’m sorry. You most likely didn’t want to get married when you were 25 either, right? I think his overseas trip could be a hard transition, but eventually help you get over him. I hope he actually makes the travel plans instead of just talking about it for years.
I disagree slightly with your future timetable.... if you want to have a baby by 35, I think 30 is a good time to be newly single. You have a few years to be single and dating, then hopefully meet someone and marry at 34. When I was your age, the best advice a friend (older than me) gave me about a pointless relationship was, “be decisive.” Act in the decisive, confident way you will want your someday children to act, and that you will be able to tell them you acted.
It’s not easy, but it gets harder the longer you wait and the longer you stretch it out. Maybe you can take a long break from the shared hobby and come back to it in a year or so, when it’s easier to be around him.
posted by areaperson at 10:37 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
I disagree slightly with your future timetable.... if you want to have a baby by 35, I think 30 is a good time to be newly single. You have a few years to be single and dating, then hopefully meet someone and marry at 34. When I was your age, the best advice a friend (older than me) gave me about a pointless relationship was, “be decisive.” Act in the decisive, confident way you will want your someday children to act, and that you will be able to tell them you acted.
It’s not easy, but it gets harder the longer you wait and the longer you stretch it out. Maybe you can take a long break from the shared hobby and come back to it in a year or so, when it’s easier to be around him.
posted by areaperson at 10:37 AM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
He's not willing to commit to marriage and children with you, either because he's not ready for marriage or children (and may never be ready), or because he doesn't feel you're the one for him. Either way you're going to need to part company in order to travel along the road to where you want to go. Don't prolong the break up, and don't stress out too much about your age/timeline. Just focus on taking the next steps: breaking up with this guy, and then meeting and dating other men once you're ready.
posted by orange swan at 10:41 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by orange swan at 10:41 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
The story you're telling yourself sucks: that when you turn 30 suddenly the movie changes to B&W and you can't find anyone ever again and you'll end up 40 and single and without a kid.
OR: you are 30 and you're brave and you say fuck off to the ridiculous societal notion that AFTER THIRTY (!!!) is some kind of death knell for women and you march forward WITH YOURSELF and learn how to let life unfold without trying desperately to control it, or without sitting by patiently (or maybe not that patiently) waiting for a person you desperately love to want the same things you do. (And you have already spent years making excuses for his lack of commitment.) And maybe don't cry when you google egg freezing? Maybe think how cool it is that modern medicine has gotten to the point where women have the option of preserving their fertility? And how cool it is that you have that option (and at 30 to boot, which, despite that voice telling you that 30 is the end, is a great age to freeze eggs).
I don't know--I am so over this trope that 30 or 40 or whenever is this time when women should shrivel up and die, and I'm also over smart women inadvertently propagating this idea with their unchecked panic. You weren't born with this fear of 30. Misogynistic societal/cultural/Hollywood garbage has fed it to you in both conscious and unconscious ways your entire life. My entire life. You have a glorious life to lead. Don't make it small and don't sell yourself incredibly short because society scared you into thinking that at a certain # all the doors slam shut at once. They don't. But you can definitely slam all those doors shut on yourself if you let this fear and panic dictate your life and your decisions.
(Also, stay off of Facebook, instagram, all of it. Life wasn't meant to make for a pretty, coherent, enviable Facebook timeline, or whatever the hell happens on that site (am not on it). Life is a messy beast, goes in ways we don't expect, thrills and devastates us all. Don't for a second believe that what you saw on Facebook is even 5% of the story.)
posted by namemeansgazelle at 10:54 AM on January 3, 2020 [39 favorites]
OR: you are 30 and you're brave and you say fuck off to the ridiculous societal notion that AFTER THIRTY (!!!) is some kind of death knell for women and you march forward WITH YOURSELF and learn how to let life unfold without trying desperately to control it, or without sitting by patiently (or maybe not that patiently) waiting for a person you desperately love to want the same things you do. (And you have already spent years making excuses for his lack of commitment.) And maybe don't cry when you google egg freezing? Maybe think how cool it is that modern medicine has gotten to the point where women have the option of preserving their fertility? And how cool it is that you have that option (and at 30 to boot, which, despite that voice telling you that 30 is the end, is a great age to freeze eggs).
I don't know--I am so over this trope that 30 or 40 or whenever is this time when women should shrivel up and die, and I'm also over smart women inadvertently propagating this idea with their unchecked panic. You weren't born with this fear of 30. Misogynistic societal/cultural/Hollywood garbage has fed it to you in both conscious and unconscious ways your entire life. My entire life. You have a glorious life to lead. Don't make it small and don't sell yourself incredibly short because society scared you into thinking that at a certain # all the doors slam shut at once. They don't. But you can definitely slam all those doors shut on yourself if you let this fear and panic dictate your life and your decisions.
(Also, stay off of Facebook, instagram, all of it. Life wasn't meant to make for a pretty, coherent, enviable Facebook timeline, or whatever the hell happens on that site (am not on it). Life is a messy beast, goes in ways we don't expect, thrills and devastates us all. Don't for a second believe that what you saw on Facebook is even 5% of the story.)
posted by namemeansgazelle at 10:54 AM on January 3, 2020 [39 favorites]
Just wanted to add: I didn’t mean to say your relationship is pointless. The relationship I was in when my friend advised me was a really poor relationship with someone who had addiction and commitment issues and we didn’t treat each other well or even really like each other. Your relationship sounds FAR more healthy and I didn’t mean to criticize it. Still, when it comes to life choices, I think it’s important to act decisively and give your plans and goals the full weight they deserve.
posted by areaperson at 11:01 AM on January 3, 2020
posted by areaperson at 11:01 AM on January 3, 2020
Pick two dates:
And if weddings aren't his thing -- if that's something holding him back -- maybe make it cheap and simple and fast. Go to city hall, sign the papers, take a small number of people to dinner, and you're done. Ta-dah! We are married! Let's leave the birth control behind and go climb that mountain.
posted by pracowity at 11:14 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
- Wedding date. Tell him you two are going to get married by some wedding date or you're going to split up and one or both of you are going to move out so you can start again. An ultimatum sort of proposal.
- Answer date. Based on the wedding date, you need his solid answer (marry or split) by some date that will give him time to think it over and talk to people, and will give you time to cancel any wedding plans you have set in motion based on the wedding date. Also be ready for stuff related to a no -- one or both of you moves out of the current place (lease considerations), you split finances cleanly and finally, etc., all by or soon after the answer date.
And if weddings aren't his thing -- if that's something holding him back -- maybe make it cheap and simple and fast. Go to city hall, sign the papers, take a small number of people to dinner, and you're done. Ta-dah! We are married! Let's leave the birth control behind and go climb that mountain.
posted by pracowity at 11:14 AM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
With all due respect to pracowity and others who have proposed ultimatum-like suggestions, I would encourage you, anonymous OP, to think about whether that would really make you happy, even if it results in marriage to your boyfriend. Before I broke up with him, I had had a number of conversations with my ex-boyfriend about the importance of marriage to me, how anxious and depressed it was making me feel to be in limbo for so long, and how I needed a firmer timeline, etc. I thought about issuing an ultimatum, but then decided that it was really important to me to marry someone who was independently as excited to marry me as I was to marry him. I wanted the kind of man who wanted me so much that he would independently propose. The idea of having to take all the agency in the process ruined it for me. I felt humiliated, resentful, and undesired, and knew it would sour our prospective marriage for me if I felt I had forced him into it. I wanted it to be something that he wanted too, not did as a concession to me or because he felt cornered. If you've expressed yourself clearly about how much you want to marry him, and he doesn't respond with a "hell, yes!", that is also an answer. It's just not the one you want to hear.
posted by ClaireBear at 11:51 AM on January 3, 2020 [40 favorites]
posted by ClaireBear at 11:51 AM on January 3, 2020 [40 favorites]
He's already told you how he feels: he's not ready for marriage, he's not even ready to move in together, he still has dreams of doing things that are incompatible with your plans, and you've spent a couple of years trying to discuss this with him and he isn't able to meet you where you are. This isn't a case of him not understanding the concept of a marriage that isn't old-fashioned, it's about him not being ready. In your late teens and early 20's a 5 year age difference is a big one. He's not wrong for wanting to have more time in his 20's to explore and be independent and you're not wrong to be 30 and thinking about your desired future, especially given your attention to fertility and when you want to be raising children.
This is the heartbreak of a certain type of incompatibility. You both love one another. You have common interests and enjoy one another, but your life stages aren't in sync. That's a terminal problem. There's no special way that you can talk about marriage concepts that will catch him up to where you are. It's time to let him go and you'll have to be very firm. His response may be to pretend that he's ready when he sees that the consequence is breaking up. But, you already know he's not ready, so be firm and concentrate on getting over the heartbreak and looking toward the future with someone who is just as compatible and also is ready for the same things you are. You do not need to give up shared interests and he's not the only one for you. If he were, you two would already be living together and would be engaged and planning the next stages of your life together. If you truly want marriage and children, don't waste time wishing that things were different than they are.
posted by quince at 12:17 PM on January 3, 2020 [10 favorites]
This is the heartbreak of a certain type of incompatibility. You both love one another. You have common interests and enjoy one another, but your life stages aren't in sync. That's a terminal problem. There's no special way that you can talk about marriage concepts that will catch him up to where you are. It's time to let him go and you'll have to be very firm. His response may be to pretend that he's ready when he sees that the consequence is breaking up. But, you already know he's not ready, so be firm and concentrate on getting over the heartbreak and looking toward the future with someone who is just as compatible and also is ready for the same things you are. You do not need to give up shared interests and he's not the only one for you. If he were, you two would already be living together and would be engaged and planning the next stages of your life together. If you truly want marriage and children, don't waste time wishing that things were different than they are.
posted by quince at 12:17 PM on January 3, 2020 [10 favorites]
As one of many many women who made bad relationship decisions as part of an 'I'm turning 30' freakout:
Don't do this.
I had a relationship that was bad and I was bad and still feel bad about it and I just kept it going because I'd dug myself a hole and I was scared and embarrassed.
I had a kid and got married in my late thirties; it's now twenty years later, but man, I still look back on that period and think 'that was the single dumbest thing I've ever done'. And I've done *dumb*.
I really wish the tradition of the 'I'm turning 30' freakout would end. It's kind of disturbing to know this still happens to young women who should be learning to know and grow and trust themselves and not feel like rapidly expiring cartons of milk.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:31 PM on January 3, 2020 [12 favorites]
Don't do this.
I had a relationship that was bad and I was bad and still feel bad about it and I just kept it going because I'd dug myself a hole and I was scared and embarrassed.
I had a kid and got married in my late thirties; it's now twenty years later, but man, I still look back on that period and think 'that was the single dumbest thing I've ever done'. And I've done *dumb*.
I really wish the tradition of the 'I'm turning 30' freakout would end. It's kind of disturbing to know this still happens to young women who should be learning to know and grow and trust themselves and not feel like rapidly expiring cartons of milk.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:31 PM on January 3, 2020 [12 favorites]
In my opinion, he does not know how to make irrevocable decisions, and he is looking for a reason/way to make them. That's a skill he needs to learn. If he has any friends who have made major life decisions (not just marrying -- perhaps moving, changing careers, etc.), maybe get them to talk with him about how they made that choice?
If (geographically and financially) couples' counseling is an option, consider it. It may give him some scaffolding and tools to help him figure out what is blocking his ability to commit to you. And, if there's something specific he is reticent to tell you (because he wants you to be happy but this thing he doesn't want to say would make you unhappy), the approaching appointment may spur him to tell you in private before he has to say it in the doctor's office.
posted by brainwane at 2:15 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
If (geographically and financially) couples' counseling is an option, consider it. It may give him some scaffolding and tools to help him figure out what is blocking his ability to commit to you. And, if there's something specific he is reticent to tell you (because he wants you to be happy but this thing he doesn't want to say would make you unhappy), the approaching appointment may spur him to tell you in private before he has to say it in the doctor's office.
posted by brainwane at 2:15 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
30 is not that old! Sounds like it might be time to move on, but don't use the big 3-0 as the drop dead date...
You have lots of good advice here, but one thing, as a friend of a good number of women who thought it vitally important to have children by a certain age (and that age varied between 32 and 38 years old) and then made that happen - not one of them is with the man that fathered the child.
posted by RajahKing at 2:20 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
You have lots of good advice here, but one thing, as a friend of a good number of women who thought it vitally important to have children by a certain age (and that age varied between 32 and 38 years old) and then made that happen - not one of them is with the man that fathered the child.
posted by RajahKing at 2:20 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
I was pretty much your significant other, though assigned female at birth. My male partner was you. Same age difference, too--he's six years older. After I graduated, I desperately needed to get out of my state. He couldn't come, as he was finishing his own degree.
We did long distance for two years, with a definite end date. Is there a reason this isn't being considered? It seems like it would work fine with your timeline, especially if you get engaged before he leaves. I had plenty of people tell me we wouldn't work out and I'd end up with someone else, but I knew that wasn't the case for us, and I was right. We got married right after we moved in together and had a child shortly after.
If you really believe that marriages can be long distance and open like this, it really baffles me that you would not consider this an option.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:26 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
We did long distance for two years, with a definite end date. Is there a reason this isn't being considered? It seems like it would work fine with your timeline, especially if you get engaged before he leaves. I had plenty of people tell me we wouldn't work out and I'd end up with someone else, but I knew that wasn't the case for us, and I was right. We got married right after we moved in together and had a child shortly after.
If you really believe that marriages can be long distance and open like this, it really baffles me that you would not consider this an option.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:26 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hey! About 3 years ago, this was me. I left, and it just totally broke my own heart, but it was also exactly the right thing to do. I was 31 and had lots of fears about being unable to find someone, but I have found a person who is just absurdly well-matched for me, and we're getting married this year.
I have never felt like I left a relationship too soon when I've started to have doubts like these - the resentment and sadness just keeps growing. I have always ended up feeling like I held on too long. YMMV, but I think the best thing for your heart and future is to end it.
posted by superlibby at 7:45 PM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
I have never felt like I left a relationship too soon when I've started to have doubts like these - the resentment and sadness just keeps growing. I have always ended up feeling like I held on too long. YMMV, but I think the best thing for your heart and future is to end it.
posted by superlibby at 7:45 PM on January 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
Something I learned about myself regarding kids (after observing it in my partner) was this: if you always want something "someday" but never want it "now" then you don't actually want it.
posted by Lady Li at 9:38 AM on January 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 9:38 AM on January 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
You have lots of good advice here, but one thing, as a friend of a good number of women who thought it vitally important to have children by a certain age (and that age varied between 32 and 38 years old) and then made that happen - not one of them is with the man that fathered the child.
Seconding RajahKing’s comment. That also describes me: I gave birth at 30, 32, & 38 and then their (eventually d/x’d Cluster B personality-disordered) father abandoned us. So, he claimed he had only had sex with 2 other women before we got together, then later, as he approached 40, he suddenly regretted his relative lack of youthful Wild Oats-sowing. Despite assuring me at the time he proposed to me at age 26 that would never be a concern of his; he did not know who the fuck he is and he still doesn’t. I’d have been FAR better off using donor sperm. So I do not think it wise to trust virgin-ish young males to ever be “one and done” when it comes to sex partners. Rather they will lie about it down the line when they cheat on you though.
Women have got to be ruthless about honoring & preserving their own personal fertility goals and not letting your goals be dependent on the whims of a young virgin-prior-to-you male who is, in your case, at 25 he’s only now reaching the age where his brain has fully matured.
No way will he go the rest of his life having only had sex with one woman. Adding new sex partners will be part of his foreign travel plans that do not include you. It ain’t pretty, but having heard this story a gazillion times, it’s true. Sorry. Best to assume that and protect your health accordingly.
Leave this nice-for-now relationship before things turn ugly and you wake up one day and do not like the anxious person not fully living out her dreams that you will have become. Hugs. Trust that there are many, many “soul mates” but you absolutely must leave your current relationship in order to find one of your other ones.
posted by edithkeeler at 9:33 AM on January 5, 2020
Seconding RajahKing’s comment. That also describes me: I gave birth at 30, 32, & 38 and then their (eventually d/x’d Cluster B personality-disordered) father abandoned us. So, he claimed he had only had sex with 2 other women before we got together, then later, as he approached 40, he suddenly regretted his relative lack of youthful Wild Oats-sowing. Despite assuring me at the time he proposed to me at age 26 that would never be a concern of his; he did not know who the fuck he is and he still doesn’t. I’d have been FAR better off using donor sperm. So I do not think it wise to trust virgin-ish young males to ever be “one and done” when it comes to sex partners. Rather they will lie about it down the line when they cheat on you though.
Women have got to be ruthless about honoring & preserving their own personal fertility goals and not letting your goals be dependent on the whims of a young virgin-prior-to-you male who is, in your case, at 25 he’s only now reaching the age where his brain has fully matured.
No way will he go the rest of his life having only had sex with one woman. Adding new sex partners will be part of his foreign travel plans that do not include you. It ain’t pretty, but having heard this story a gazillion times, it’s true. Sorry. Best to assume that and protect your health accordingly.
Leave this nice-for-now relationship before things turn ugly and you wake up one day and do not like the anxious person not fully living out her dreams that you will have become. Hugs. Trust that there are many, many “soul mates” but you absolutely must leave your current relationship in order to find one of your other ones.
posted by edithkeeler at 9:33 AM on January 5, 2020
despite the age gap I had felt we were at similar life stages
we should come to a decision about what we want to do about us by January when I turn 30.
The general rule is for the older person in a relationship to believe that being the same age means the younger person should rise up and act as if they're older, rather than the older person being the one who arrests their mental aging and regresses to meet their partner. It's also the rule for the older person to be the dominant party and to get their way about this. You want the two of you to make decisions on your timetable; you want your own birthday milestones, not his, to be the deadlines. I don't think that this is good.
It may feel as if there's a counterweight when the younger person is male and the older one is female, but the two unequal power relations co-exist without really correcting each other. It's a lot like income disparities in heterosexual relationships -- sure, it's a lot better when the richer person is female, but the basic responsibility of the older/richer person to consider their partner's need not to live above their emotional/financial means doesn't evaporate in that case either.
marriage (not kids!)
But you clearly indicated that you want to be married first and have kids second, and that you want kids in 5 years! so come on, this distinction isn't serious. you've linked them in your own life plans, so of course he does too. of course it is prudent and safe for him to put off the otherwise harmless first step if he's sure he doesn't want to get to the second step yet.
If it is more important to you to be married and eventually have children with an unknown partner than it is important to you to be with this particular known partner, with or without marriage and children ever, you should break up.
(4/5 years shouldn't count as an age difference, some would say. and it doesn't count at a certain point. that certain point is when decade-end birthdays stop feeling cataclysmically significant to either party.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:18 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
we should come to a decision about what we want to do about us by January when I turn 30.
The general rule is for the older person in a relationship to believe that being the same age means the younger person should rise up and act as if they're older, rather than the older person being the one who arrests their mental aging and regresses to meet their partner. It's also the rule for the older person to be the dominant party and to get their way about this. You want the two of you to make decisions on your timetable; you want your own birthday milestones, not his, to be the deadlines. I don't think that this is good.
It may feel as if there's a counterweight when the younger person is male and the older one is female, but the two unequal power relations co-exist without really correcting each other. It's a lot like income disparities in heterosexual relationships -- sure, it's a lot better when the richer person is female, but the basic responsibility of the older/richer person to consider their partner's need not to live above their emotional/financial means doesn't evaporate in that case either.
marriage (not kids!)
But you clearly indicated that you want to be married first and have kids second, and that you want kids in 5 years! so come on, this distinction isn't serious. you've linked them in your own life plans, so of course he does too. of course it is prudent and safe for him to put off the otherwise harmless first step if he's sure he doesn't want to get to the second step yet.
If it is more important to you to be married and eventually have children with an unknown partner than it is important to you to be with this particular known partner, with or without marriage and children ever, you should break up.
(4/5 years shouldn't count as an age difference, some would say. and it doesn't count at a certain point. that certain point is when decade-end birthdays stop feeling cataclysmically significant to either party.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:18 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
First of all, adding my vote to "break up and find someone who says HELL YES to marrying you". You deserve more than this wishy washy chap, however nice he is and comfortable you are with him.
But secondly, to this: " I start doing the maths and panic"
Don't. I mean, because life has it's plans for you regardless of what your own plans are. But also - things move at a different timescale as you get older. When I was in my 20s, relationships developed slowly as we played games around each other, or dithered over what we wanted or where we were going, or tried to figure out what they even were to us, newly minted adults.
I met my now spouse when I was 30, we were engaged within the first year, married in the second, kid born two years after that.
Being single at 30 was kind of daunting, I'm not gonna lie. But it turns out that meeting a mature person who is on the same page as you means you can skip all the drama, and the faffing around, and the will he ask or shall I. And you can crack on with the stuff you want to do, together, as soon as you like.
posted by greenish at 6:52 AM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
But secondly, to this: " I start doing the maths and panic"
Don't. I mean, because life has it's plans for you regardless of what your own plans are. But also - things move at a different timescale as you get older. When I was in my 20s, relationships developed slowly as we played games around each other, or dithered over what we wanted or where we were going, or tried to figure out what they even were to us, newly minted adults.
I met my now spouse when I was 30, we were engaged within the first year, married in the second, kid born two years after that.
Being single at 30 was kind of daunting, I'm not gonna lie. But it turns out that meeting a mature person who is on the same page as you means you can skip all the drama, and the faffing around, and the will he ask or shall I. And you can crack on with the stuff you want to do, together, as soon as you like.
posted by greenish at 6:52 AM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
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The only thing irrational about your fear is thinking that your love life will end after 30 - that's ridiculous. I feel in love at 36. Lots of people find their match later. Don't let that fear dictate your actions. I mean, chances are pretty good that even if you tried to lock this down now, you might end up with a less amicable breakup, but at an even later age.
I don't see why you have to lose your "shared activity" and its community, though maybe that would be easier to understand if we knew what it was. In any case, an amicable breakup can keep you connected with things you love. And if he's planning to go abroad, he wouldn't be around to compete with you for others' time.
The writing seems to be on the wall here. He's just not ready for this, and that's fair. You know what you want and are ready to move toward it, and that's fair too. Sometimes these things just happen, even with people who love each other and are otherwise compatible. I'm sorry.
posted by Miko at 7:48 AM on January 3, 2020 [26 favorites]