help us understand and handle volunteer who is weirdly miscalibrated
November 19, 2019 11:05 PM Subscribe
Asking for a friend, who is having some odd interactions with a fellow volunteer he is training. New Guy seems to give polite and reasonable responses based on weird misunderstandings of reality. Friend has no idea what's going on in New Guy's head, or how Friend should handle New Guy.
Friend is a long-time volunteer at a place that takes walk-in volunteers. He does a technical thing that the place needs. Generally plays well with others, including the mostly older, affluent, white population that staffs and is served by this place, despite not being of that demographic.
New Guy looks like roughly that demographic, except probably mid-twenties. No immediate red flags. Just graduated from a small liberal arts school in Vermont (or something), moved here for work, plays squash, etc. Said he wanted to do the technical thing even though he had no prior experience. They're happy to train people, so fine.
The weirdness started shortly after Friend took New Guy to learn the thing. There's a lot of noise, so you wear hearing protection and shout at each other.
New Guy said, "When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." Friend said, "I'm not mad at you. It's just loud," while gesturing at his hearing protection. New Guy said, "That doesn't make it right." Friend didn't know how to respond to that, so he just went on with the lesson.
Later, New Guy said to Friend, "When you single me out for criticism, I feel like you don't trust my judgment." Except Friend was introduced as the guy to teach New Guy a totally unfamiliar thing, there were only two of them, and the alleged criticism was something super objective and impersonal, like, "You forgot to turn it on."
There were a few more head-scratcher moments like that. New Guy behaves like a reasonable and polite person doing his best with a difficult coworker, except that's...just not what the situation actually is. We don't know what to make of it.
This is an obscure volunteer job at an obscure volunteer-run organization, so plan A is to hope that New Guy doesn't come back.
In case he does, though, does the hive mind have any idea what's going on in New Guy's head and how Friend should handle him?
Turning him away is an option but not great. There's not really precedent for it, so Friend will have to consult others. There will be long, earnest, soul-searching discussions. Much email will be written.
Continuing to train him is also not a great option. Friend suspects he won't learn the thing well. For one thing, he does not appear to understand that he is here to learn it. But it'll take time to let that play out and Friend will have to deal with him the whole time.
The ideal outcome would be to learn the magic words that make New Guy stop making these weird comments.
Friend is a long-time volunteer at a place that takes walk-in volunteers. He does a technical thing that the place needs. Generally plays well with others, including the mostly older, affluent, white population that staffs and is served by this place, despite not being of that demographic.
New Guy looks like roughly that demographic, except probably mid-twenties. No immediate red flags. Just graduated from a small liberal arts school in Vermont (or something), moved here for work, plays squash, etc. Said he wanted to do the technical thing even though he had no prior experience. They're happy to train people, so fine.
The weirdness started shortly after Friend took New Guy to learn the thing. There's a lot of noise, so you wear hearing protection and shout at each other.
New Guy said, "When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." Friend said, "I'm not mad at you. It's just loud," while gesturing at his hearing protection. New Guy said, "That doesn't make it right." Friend didn't know how to respond to that, so he just went on with the lesson.
Later, New Guy said to Friend, "When you single me out for criticism, I feel like you don't trust my judgment." Except Friend was introduced as the guy to teach New Guy a totally unfamiliar thing, there were only two of them, and the alleged criticism was something super objective and impersonal, like, "You forgot to turn it on."
There were a few more head-scratcher moments like that. New Guy behaves like a reasonable and polite person doing his best with a difficult coworker, except that's...just not what the situation actually is. We don't know what to make of it.
This is an obscure volunteer job at an obscure volunteer-run organization, so plan A is to hope that New Guy doesn't come back.
In case he does, though, does the hive mind have any idea what's going on in New Guy's head and how Friend should handle him?
Turning him away is an option but not great. There's not really precedent for it, so Friend will have to consult others. There will be long, earnest, soul-searching discussions. Much email will be written.
Continuing to train him is also not a great option. Friend suspects he won't learn the thing well. For one thing, he does not appear to understand that he is here to learn it. But it'll take time to let that play out and Friend will have to deal with him the whole time.
The ideal outcome would be to learn the magic words that make New Guy stop making these weird comments.
Sounds like New Guy is very insecure, which may be a permanent state of being or merely the anxiety that comes with walking in cold to a new situation.
I would consider the arc: is he chilling out as time goes by?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:25 PM on November 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
I would consider the arc: is he chilling out as time goes by?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:25 PM on November 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
Possible to do a background check on him?
And is it possible if he does come back to steer him to something easier? When you volunteer in my experience you get whatever garbage job the people who got there first don't want to do, and you don't get a choice.
posted by bleep at 11:58 PM on November 19, 2019 [9 favorites]
And is it possible if he does come back to steer him to something easier? When you volunteer in my experience you get whatever garbage job the people who got there first don't want to do, and you don't get a choice.
posted by bleep at 11:58 PM on November 19, 2019 [9 favorites]
Friend needs to document what New Guy is saying in nice polite language now in an email to another volunteer who is on Friend's side, or at least in an email to himself or a sympathetic supervisor to say, here's a heads-up, I'm concerned about this volunteer and would like to give him another chance but if he's behaving oddly with me when I'm teaching him in friendly and polite ways now, we need to be cautious about him with other volunteers who may not be as calm as me.
If there's a chance New Guy will be expected to work with the general public or clients as a representative of the organisation, I would bring this up earlier.
There's not enough info to know if New Guy is manipulative, awkward or neurodivergent. Whatever he is, he's going to need special handling as a volunteer because he can't cope with an ordinary routine volunteer assignment.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:10 AM on November 20, 2019 [21 favorites]
If there's a chance New Guy will be expected to work with the general public or clients as a representative of the organisation, I would bring this up earlier.
There's not enough info to know if New Guy is manipulative, awkward or neurodivergent. Whatever he is, he's going to need special handling as a volunteer because he can't cope with an ordinary routine volunteer assignment.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:10 AM on November 20, 2019 [21 favorites]
Friend is a long-time volunteer at a place that takes walk-in volunteers. He does a technical thing that the place needs. Generally plays well with others, including the mostly older, affluent, white population that staffs and is served by this place, despite not being of that demographic.
New Guy looks like roughly that demographic, except probably mid-twenties. No immediate red flags. Just graduated from a small liberal arts school in Vermont (or something), moved here for work, plays squash, etc. Said he wanted to do the technical thing even though he had no prior experience. They're happy to train people, so fine.
I take it from this that your friend is a person of color.
If that's true, then a worst case scenario is that the new guy is one of those white people who tell themselves that people of color are the real racists because of their negative attitudes toward white people, and that they get away with it because of 'political correctness'.
Which might make him try to twist perfectly innocuous things your friend says to him into attacks on him because he is white, as well as to represent to other people in the organization that he is being unfairly attacked.
posted by jamjam at 12:21 AM on November 20, 2019 [30 favorites]
New Guy looks like roughly that demographic, except probably mid-twenties. No immediate red flags. Just graduated from a small liberal arts school in Vermont (or something), moved here for work, plays squash, etc. Said he wanted to do the technical thing even though he had no prior experience. They're happy to train people, so fine.
I take it from this that your friend is a person of color.
If that's true, then a worst case scenario is that the new guy is one of those white people who tell themselves that people of color are the real racists because of their negative attitudes toward white people, and that they get away with it because of 'political correctness'.
Which might make him try to twist perfectly innocuous things your friend says to him into attacks on him because he is white, as well as to represent to other people in the organization that he is being unfairly attacked.
posted by jamjam at 12:21 AM on November 20, 2019 [30 favorites]
The ideal outcome would be to learn the magic words that make New Guy stop making these weird comments.
This is probably more labor than your friend has in mind, but the way New Guy is phrasing his comments makes me think he trying to use Non-Violent Communication strategies, hence the “I feel...” statements. Perhaps NVC techniques are the “magic words” that could help your friend manage this guy?
posted by ceramicspaniel at 12:30 AM on November 20, 2019 [28 favorites]
This is probably more labor than your friend has in mind, but the way New Guy is phrasing his comments makes me think he trying to use Non-Violent Communication strategies, hence the “I feel...” statements. Perhaps NVC techniques are the “magic words” that could help your friend manage this guy?
posted by ceramicspaniel at 12:30 AM on November 20, 2019 [28 favorites]
Has your friend tried talking to the new guy? Taking him out of the environment maybe for a coffee and having a conversation about all this? It's worth a try if your friend can get through to him that training is necessary and not a personal attack. If not then you have more evidence that this guy is intractable and not suitable for the role and therefore will have a better case for his dismissal. It's perfectly legit to ask a volunteer not to come back if they are not able to perform the task they are assigned and are not willing to learn how to do it.
posted by Balthamos at 12:44 AM on November 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Balthamos at 12:44 AM on November 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
As I understand it, your friend is volunteering to use x technology and/ or teach the technology to newcomers, right?
Given this, he is under very different pressures than someone who would be employed there, and he has no reason to play the protracted 'let's endlessly communicated about this' game that he think people in admin would play.
Just talk to the guy - once - as per Balthamos' recommendation, then tell higher ups 'I cannot work with this guy due to irreconcilable personality differences' and then just don't work with that guy - guy is not your friend's problem.
posted by doggod at 1:45 AM on November 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
Given this, he is under very different pressures than someone who would be employed there, and he has no reason to play the protracted 'let's endlessly communicated about this' game that he think people in admin would play.
Just talk to the guy - once - as per Balthamos' recommendation, then tell higher ups 'I cannot work with this guy due to irreconcilable personality differences' and then just don't work with that guy - guy is not your friend's problem.
posted by doggod at 1:45 AM on November 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
If that's true, then a worst case scenario is that the new guy is one of those white people who tell themselves that people of color are the real racists because of their negative attitudes toward white people, and that they get away with it because of 'political correctness'.
The worst case scenario is that new guy is acting in bad faith to engineer a viral media incident and sabotage your organization. “I feel attacked” when you speak loudly to somebody wearing industrial hearing protection is obvious nonsense and a huge red flag. I’d be cautiously suggesting to this person that they might be better suited for other opportunities and get them out of the building as soon as possible.
posted by mhoye at 2:50 AM on November 20, 2019 [88 favorites]
The worst case scenario is that new guy is acting in bad faith to engineer a viral media incident and sabotage your organization. “I feel attacked” when you speak loudly to somebody wearing industrial hearing protection is obvious nonsense and a huge red flag. I’d be cautiously suggesting to this person that they might be better suited for other opportunities and get them out of the building as soon as possible.
posted by mhoye at 2:50 AM on November 20, 2019 [88 favorites]
Fragility is a fucking nuisance and working with people who bung it on at every opportunity is hard work and a pain in the arse.
The basic choice when dealing with fragility: either treat it like any other disability and work around it, in the hope that the ensuing relationship is enough to settle it down, or say fuck it, this isn't a disability at all, this is just a failure to grow the fuck up; this person is too much hard work and I just can't even. Your friend will be facing that choice every day. If he's up for the first option, here are a couple of tactics that might make it less of a complete fucking pain.
The passive voice can be made to do a lot of the heavy lifting. So instead of "you need to do X before Y to prevent Z" substitute "X needs to be done before Y to prevent Z" in the most neutral, factually informative tone that can be mustered.
Almost any "you" statement can be quickly recast in the passive voice with a little practice, and doing so could well help avoid triggering spurious emotional responses in somebody prone to feeling attacked when interacting with scary dark-skinned people.
There's a lot of noise, so you wear hearing protection and shout at each other.
Another option might be to wear hearing protection and scribble written notes to each other.
Just keep a record of the accommodations being requested using that strangely irritating mixture of perfect courtesy and complete fucking unreasonableness, and read over them every now and then to check their trajectory. If they're being driven by genuine anxiety, they'll settle down over time. If they're being driven by some kind of bullshit whiteboy superiority complex, they'll get more and more ridiculous and yes, there might well be some kind of viral media incident waiting in the wings. Either way, the record will be valuable.
posted by flabdablet at 3:00 AM on November 20, 2019 [26 favorites]
The basic choice when dealing with fragility: either treat it like any other disability and work around it, in the hope that the ensuing relationship is enough to settle it down, or say fuck it, this isn't a disability at all, this is just a failure to grow the fuck up; this person is too much hard work and I just can't even. Your friend will be facing that choice every day. If he's up for the first option, here are a couple of tactics that might make it less of a complete fucking pain.
The passive voice can be made to do a lot of the heavy lifting. So instead of "you need to do X before Y to prevent Z" substitute "X needs to be done before Y to prevent Z" in the most neutral, factually informative tone that can be mustered.
Almost any "you" statement can be quickly recast in the passive voice with a little practice, and doing so could well help avoid triggering spurious emotional responses in somebody prone to feeling attacked when interacting with scary dark-skinned people.
There's a lot of noise, so you wear hearing protection and shout at each other.
Another option might be to wear hearing protection and scribble written notes to each other.
Just keep a record of the accommodations being requested using that strangely irritating mixture of perfect courtesy and complete fucking unreasonableness, and read over them every now and then to check their trajectory. If they're being driven by genuine anxiety, they'll settle down over time. If they're being driven by some kind of bullshit whiteboy superiority complex, they'll get more and more ridiculous and yes, there might well be some kind of viral media incident waiting in the wings. Either way, the record will be valuable.
posted by flabdablet at 3:00 AM on November 20, 2019 [26 favorites]
the way New Guy is phrasing his comments makes me think he trying to use Non-Violent Communication strategies
NVC is a fine thing if both parties are using it in good faith. It can be abused in the service of passive aggression at least as easily as any other flavour of courtesy.
posted by flabdablet at 3:02 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
NVC is a fine thing if both parties are using it in good faith. It can be abused in the service of passive aggression at least as easily as any other flavour of courtesy.
posted by flabdablet at 3:02 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
Yeah, those are I Statements, aren't they?
FNG might just just be a delicate flower, who is communicating his feelings and needs, as he has been taught. Unfortunately those are simply not as important to the organization as they were in his past environments.
I agree with flabdablet, and I would tell Friend to stay the course of neutral language & the passive voice. FNG probably isn't planning a media event or anything, he's just set-centered and needs to grow up. It's a drag that The Organization will have to help FNG with that before they can get value from his presence.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:12 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
FNG might just just be a delicate flower, who is communicating his feelings and needs, as he has been taught. Unfortunately those are simply not as important to the organization as they were in his past environments.
I agree with flabdablet, and I would tell Friend to stay the course of neutral language & the passive voice. FNG probably isn't planning a media event or anything, he's just set-centered and needs to grow up. It's a drag that The Organization will have to help FNG with that before they can get value from his presence.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:12 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
New guy is not a good fit for this technical role. This is not beneficial to him, or to the organization. It's not an efficient use of his time, or of friend's time. Find him something that is a better fit (even if it's low-skill, it's still work that needs to be done) or let him go.
posted by Sparky Buttons at 3:59 AM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Sparky Buttons at 3:59 AM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
New Guy learned this fragility somewhere, and it would be a kindness if someone taught him that this isn’t OK or he is going to have a very hard time in life. I worked with a much ruder version of this (yelled “Jesus Christ” when I was training her and pointed out an error), and unfortunately, the organization was happy with very slight improvement on her part, which was not a service to her.
Someone needs to be very direct with this guy. Is there no volunteer coordinator or someone else higher up? A friend who held that kind of position had to wrangle snowflake volunteers all the time (lots of people who were offended that they needed training, for instance).
posted by FencingGal at 4:26 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
Someone needs to be very direct with this guy. Is there no volunteer coordinator or someone else higher up? A friend who held that kind of position had to wrangle snowflake volunteers all the time (lots of people who were offended that they needed training, for instance).
posted by FencingGal at 4:26 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
I teach college students. Ime, sometimes when a student uses these types of phrases, they are on the autism spectrum, and have learned some stock phrases as a way to interact with other humans. But they may not be able to quite figure out the appropriate time and place to use these phrases. Hence, perfectly fine ways of speaking used in inappropriate contexts.
I don't have a solution for you though. Not sure if the ADA applies to volunteer situations.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 4:31 AM on November 20, 2019 [20 favorites]
I don't have a solution for you though. Not sure if the ADA applies to volunteer situations.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 4:31 AM on November 20, 2019 [20 favorites]
When I first read this it struck me that the person may be neurodivergent. I would consider that before automatically jumping to the idea that he's racist or excessively fragile.
posted by christinetheslp at 4:31 AM on November 20, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by christinetheslp at 4:31 AM on November 20, 2019 [18 favorites]
It's not clear to me whether he's had one training session or whether he's come back multiple times.
Either way, though, the strategy I would use is to respond to any comment like that in a very friendly tone, as though what they just said was a normal way to talk. And I would say, "Okay, thanks for telling me. I need to teach you this stuff, including telling you when you need to make a change to what you're doing. How would you prefer I do that?" (or "I need to communicate with you in this loud room with these headsets on. How would you prefer I do that?")
But you have to say it with the relaxed positivity as if they'd said, "Oh, please don't tap me on the shoulder, I have a sunburn," and you were saying "Oh, sorry, what should I do to get your attention?" There may be a reason or there may not, but treating them as though they were doing the best they can is pretty much always the way to get the best out of people.
If he tries to turn this into a detailed menu of how you're allowed to behave with him (please preface suggestions with three sentences about how great I'm doing), you can push back with "I'm afraid that's not possible, we have to do things a certain way. If this doesn't work for you, we understand that another opportunity might be a better fit" or something positive.
I work with the public, including a lot of people who either do not abide by the social contract or, weirder, those who do for a while and then suddenly shift to not (public libraries FTW!). I've always had the best luck keeping my attitude and behavior as though this was definitely a reasonable person who has a good reason that I just don't know for acting this way, but that doesn't mean I can necessarily do what they ask.
And I'd talk with someone above him in the org about what to do if the person does something objectively inappropriate or unmanageable. What would be the practical procedure if he started shouting insults at everyone around him? Knowing what actions to take when a line is crossed helps me be more patient and less anxious in the time when everything is still behind the line.
posted by gideonfrog at 5:03 AM on November 20, 2019 [60 favorites]
Either way, though, the strategy I would use is to respond to any comment like that in a very friendly tone, as though what they just said was a normal way to talk. And I would say, "Okay, thanks for telling me. I need to teach you this stuff, including telling you when you need to make a change to what you're doing. How would you prefer I do that?" (or "I need to communicate with you in this loud room with these headsets on. How would you prefer I do that?")
But you have to say it with the relaxed positivity as if they'd said, "Oh, please don't tap me on the shoulder, I have a sunburn," and you were saying "Oh, sorry, what should I do to get your attention?" There may be a reason or there may not, but treating them as though they were doing the best they can is pretty much always the way to get the best out of people.
If he tries to turn this into a detailed menu of how you're allowed to behave with him (please preface suggestions with three sentences about how great I'm doing), you can push back with "I'm afraid that's not possible, we have to do things a certain way. If this doesn't work for you, we understand that another opportunity might be a better fit" or something positive.
I work with the public, including a lot of people who either do not abide by the social contract or, weirder, those who do for a while and then suddenly shift to not (public libraries FTW!). I've always had the best luck keeping my attitude and behavior as though this was definitely a reasonable person who has a good reason that I just don't know for acting this way, but that doesn't mean I can necessarily do what they ask.
And I'd talk with someone above him in the org about what to do if the person does something objectively inappropriate or unmanageable. What would be the practical procedure if he started shouting insults at everyone around him? Knowing what actions to take when a line is crossed helps me be more patient and less anxious in the time when everything is still behind the line.
posted by gideonfrog at 5:03 AM on November 20, 2019 [60 favorites]
This is probably more labor than your friend has in mind, but the way New Guy is phrasing his comments makes me think he trying to use Non-Violent Communication strategies, hence the “I feel...” statements.
This stood out to me too. About 50% of the volunteers I work with are like this and it is somewhat normal in that setting. Nothing New Guy said would even raise eyebrows for me, assuming he’s between 18-30 and his politics are more to the left.
posted by corb at 5:06 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
This stood out to me too. About 50% of the volunteers I work with are like this and it is somewhat normal in that setting. Nothing New Guy said would even raise eyebrows for me, assuming he’s between 18-30 and his politics are more to the left.
posted by corb at 5:06 AM on November 20, 2019 [5 favorites]
Just to provide a counterpoint, I do a lot of volunteering and I've never encountered this kind of talk-back from someone was being trained. I'd drop this guy like a hot rock if he kept making training sessions about his own needs rather than learning the right way to accomplish a task, especially if he had no native skill at that task.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:08 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:08 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
Wanted to second that my first thought was that this sounded like a person on the autism spectrum who is trying to communicate discomforts through misapplied language learned by rote.
posted by Pwoink at 6:10 AM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by Pwoink at 6:10 AM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
I used to do a lot volunteer on-boarding and experienced similar things - people who come out to volunteer are frequently somewhat isolated or in their own head (cf. every "how do I make friends" thread that includes many suggestions to volunteer).
I agree with the suggestion that next time he comes back, suggest a much more basic task, if one is available. (This could even be like "organize the bathroom supplies). If he can do that task a few times, and comes back for a few sessions and is willing to do the menial stuff reliably, then move him on to the technical training.
posted by pilot pirx at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2019 [16 favorites]
I agree with the suggestion that next time he comes back, suggest a much more basic task, if one is available. (This could even be like "organize the bathroom supplies). If he can do that task a few times, and comes back for a few sessions and is willing to do the menial stuff reliably, then move him on to the technical training.
posted by pilot pirx at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2019 [16 favorites]
There are all kinds of reasons why this person might be using this language, and one of the possible reasons is that they have a disability they are trying to manage. There is, in my view, a moral responsibility, owed to disabled people as a whole, to investigate and examine that possibility, and consider what appropriate adjustments could be made if, further to investigation, this appears likely to be a disability issue. Failing to do this isolates and marginalises disabled people; ask me how I know.
More broadly, I don't think people should follow advice to drop someone like a hot racist rock because they do weird or maybe even difficult things. People are complicated, and we owe each other our best efforts to communicate, even though that comes with a risk that you may be wasting your time. Consider how many marginalised people would be further marginalised by deliberately withholding the attempt at empathy whenever anyone acts weird, on the assumption that this means they must be our enemy.
posted by howfar at 6:55 AM on November 20, 2019 [30 favorites]
More broadly, I don't think people should follow advice to drop someone like a hot racist rock because they do weird or maybe even difficult things. People are complicated, and we owe each other our best efforts to communicate, even though that comes with a risk that you may be wasting your time. Consider how many marginalised people would be further marginalised by deliberately withholding the attempt at empathy whenever anyone acts weird, on the assumption that this means they must be our enemy.
posted by howfar at 6:55 AM on November 20, 2019 [30 favorites]
Sounds like a guy I worked with once years ago that would be described as on the Autism Spectrum now a days. Being overloaded with noise, feeling attacked by people speaking loudly, had trouble taking criticism etc. He had a lot of stock phrases he used in situations when he didn't know what to say and it always came off a little off like this, as more therapist speak than actual communication.
I'd honestly start him on simpler, more entry level volunteer type jobs. If he's serious about wanting to do technical thing he can then slowly build up his confidence and knowledge of the organisation & prove he's not going to be trouble in those areas & be given more responsibility as he learns & proves reliable. As others have said, that's how every volunteer group I've worked for has gone.
posted by wwax at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'd honestly start him on simpler, more entry level volunteer type jobs. If he's serious about wanting to do technical thing he can then slowly build up his confidence and knowledge of the organisation & prove he's not going to be trouble in those areas & be given more responsibility as he learns & proves reliable. As others have said, that's how every volunteer group I've worked for has gone.
posted by wwax at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I can't deal with people suddenly raising their voices either, even if it makes sense for the circumstance. This is worse if I am focusing and have largely tuned out the noise around me and have to re-calibrate. I go from being unable to hear you at all to hearing VERY LOUD AND THREATENING NONSENSE SOUNDS. I am less awkward about it than New Guy, apparently.
I think you should wave to get his attention, then beckon him back to a quieter place when you need to talk to him so you can do so at a lower level. Then, if you need to talk to him out where the machines are, warn him that you'll need to raise your voice.
To deal with very fragile people who you must offer constructive criticism, use the compliment sandwich strategy: "New Guy, I love that you're getting right to work! Did you forget to press the On button? It's cool, you're all set now!" Some people need a very gentle approach. If your goal is to do the thing but not fire New Guy, maybe accept that he is an awkward person and work with it.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:23 AM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think you should wave to get his attention, then beckon him back to a quieter place when you need to talk to him so you can do so at a lower level. Then, if you need to talk to him out where the machines are, warn him that you'll need to raise your voice.
To deal with very fragile people who you must offer constructive criticism, use the compliment sandwich strategy: "New Guy, I love that you're getting right to work! Did you forget to press the On button? It's cool, you're all set now!" Some people need a very gentle approach. If your goal is to do the thing but not fire New Guy, maybe accept that he is an awkward person and work with it.
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:23 AM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
howfar:
posted by adamrice at 8:52 AM on November 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
There is, in my view, a moral responsibility, owed to disabled people as a whole, to investigate and examine that possibility, and consider what appropriate adjustments could be made if, further to investigation, this appears likely to be a disability issue.Does a person with such a disability have any responsibility to say "hey, I have this disability"? I don't ask this to be contentious: I deal with a lot of volunteers, some of them I know are not neurotypical, some might just be difficult.
posted by adamrice at 8:52 AM on November 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
One of the difficulties is that they may well not know. They may also be used to experiencing discrimination due to revealing their disability, and so be wary about doing so. They may also just be ashamed. Or have any number of reasons, pretty much like anyone, but particularly members of groups of marginalised people. The prerogative to/not disclose this sort of status is, I think, that of the person subject to it (subject to certain reasonable limits relating primarily to safety). There are going to be edge cases where there is a strong reason to disclose, but very few in relation to neurodiverse people, as far as I can think of. So I think you have to assume that disability is a possibility in all cases when you deal with other people. It's the same basic acknowledgement that disabled people are a full part of world as not assuming that someone who says they are married is married to someone of a different gender. This sort of awareness can be difficult work, but I think it is difficult almost entirely because we live in highly ableist society. So, in my view, the burden falls on society, and particularly those who do not suffer the direct negative effects of ableism, to try to address that.
So, yeah, I'd say in your case keep your mind open, stay observant and seek verification before drawing conclusions.
Also, in the end, we all need to extend and receive empathy. Obviously people should keep themselves safe, and they should not feel obliged to take on other people's burdens: Christ knows most of us have enough already. And it is hard, sometimes, to know the line between being empathetic and being a mug. These are difficult and subjective issues we all have to judge for ourselves. But, that said, I think it's a good general policy to be open minded to the idea that anyone's difficult behaviour is usually a result of circumstances they didn't choose, and maybe you can help, because the worst that seems likely to happen is you'll be a bit kinder to someone who doesn't really deserve it. But sometimes that's the time when it's most useful.
posted by howfar at 9:21 AM on November 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
So, yeah, I'd say in your case keep your mind open, stay observant and seek verification before drawing conclusions.
Also, in the end, we all need to extend and receive empathy. Obviously people should keep themselves safe, and they should not feel obliged to take on other people's burdens: Christ knows most of us have enough already. And it is hard, sometimes, to know the line between being empathetic and being a mug. These are difficult and subjective issues we all have to judge for ourselves. But, that said, I think it's a good general policy to be open minded to the idea that anyone's difficult behaviour is usually a result of circumstances they didn't choose, and maybe you can help, because the worst that seems likely to happen is you'll be a bit kinder to someone who doesn't really deserve it. But sometimes that's the time when it's most useful.
posted by howfar at 9:21 AM on November 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
You can't know what New Guy is thinking, and worrying about that is a distraction. I would engage with him comments totally forthrightly and flatfootedly:
"When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." "That sounds like something you're going to need to figure out for yourself when you're working in a loud environment."
"When you single me out for criticism, I feel like you don't trust my judgment." "Because you're still learning and making mistakes as appropriate to your level of training, I don't trust your judgment, yet. As you grow your skills, I'll adapt my expectations accordingly."
posted by spindrifter at 9:43 AM on November 20, 2019 [23 favorites]
"When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." "That sounds like something you're going to need to figure out for yourself when you're working in a loud environment."
"When you single me out for criticism, I feel like you don't trust my judgment." "Because you're still learning and making mistakes as appropriate to your level of training, I don't trust your judgment, yet. As you grow your skills, I'll adapt my expectations accordingly."
posted by spindrifter at 9:43 AM on November 20, 2019 [23 favorites]
If your friend were me or if I was your friend, I would have a third person there the next time this person showed up to volunteer.
posted by AugustWest at 10:01 AM on November 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 10:01 AM on November 20, 2019 [19 favorites]
I agree with spendrifter's phrases.
If possible, I would walk outside the loud environment, take the ear protection off, and say something like "It's loud in there. I am going to raise my voice when I'm talking to you, because you won't hear me otherwise. If you're uncomfortable, this may not be a good volunteer opportunity for you. Do you want to continue, knowing that I'm going to raise my voice when we're in there?"
"Reminding you of the procedure is different from criticism. I'm training you, and there are times when I'm going to mention that you've done something the wrong way. If you are uncomfortable with that, this may not be a good volunteer opportunity for you. Would you feel more comfortable if we included the volunteer coordinator in this discussion?"
posted by vitabellosi at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2019 [22 favorites]
If possible, I would walk outside the loud environment, take the ear protection off, and say something like "It's loud in there. I am going to raise my voice when I'm talking to you, because you won't hear me otherwise. If you're uncomfortable, this may not be a good volunteer opportunity for you. Do you want to continue, knowing that I'm going to raise my voice when we're in there?"
"Reminding you of the procedure is different from criticism. I'm training you, and there are times when I'm going to mention that you've done something the wrong way. If you are uncomfortable with that, this may not be a good volunteer opportunity for you. Would you feel more comfortable if we included the volunteer coordinator in this discussion?"
posted by vitabellosi at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2019 [22 favorites]
I volunteer a lot. A lot.
It's often frustrating and thankless work. At least at your job you get paid. Volunteering is just all out of the goodness of your heart and your devotion to the cause. And it's demoralizing when that gets taken for granted. And that demoralization is cumulative over time. Which is to say: eating extra shit because some random person decides to feed it to you is not a good idea for the volunteer, or for the org, because demoralization of valuable volunteers presents a threat to the staffing and functionality of the org.
I don't understand why folks are suggesting your friend - who's already volunteering what is presumably a valuable technical service, without which the org would be less able to deliver whatever it's delivering -- take on the additional frustrating task, for which they are neither qualified nor paid, and which is not part of the org's mission -- of diagnosing or massaging or coddling this new person, who is delivering nothing but headaches.
New guy does not belong in this role, as demonstrated repeatedly in the facts of the post.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:33 AM on November 20, 2019 [28 favorites]
It's often frustrating and thankless work. At least at your job you get paid. Volunteering is just all out of the goodness of your heart and your devotion to the cause. And it's demoralizing when that gets taken for granted. And that demoralization is cumulative over time. Which is to say: eating extra shit because some random person decides to feed it to you is not a good idea for the volunteer, or for the org, because demoralization of valuable volunteers presents a threat to the staffing and functionality of the org.
I don't understand why folks are suggesting your friend - who's already volunteering what is presumably a valuable technical service, without which the org would be less able to deliver whatever it's delivering -- take on the additional frustrating task, for which they are neither qualified nor paid, and which is not part of the org's mission -- of diagnosing or massaging or coddling this new person, who is delivering nothing but headaches.
New guy does not belong in this role, as demonstrated repeatedly in the facts of the post.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:33 AM on November 20, 2019 [28 favorites]
Can your friend do some expectations-setting with New Guy before they go in the loud room? Like, what are your goals as a volunteer, here is an overview of how to do the task, does that sound okay? That gives New Guy a chance to say "I can't deal with noise" and get diverted into another job and/or set the expectation that he's being trained. Is there, like, a YouTube video of this skill that he could watch?
Most orgs have some kind of volunteer onboarding like this, even if it's pretty basic (surely volunteers are already signing liability waivers, at least?). It would be a good practice to do this for everyone.
New Guy wants to do the technical thing that the org needs. If your friend doesn't want to do training, that's one thing. If there are objective things that suggest New Guy can't learn it in a reasonable timeframe or do it safely, that's another. But it sounds like the problem "this guy is annoying and I don't want to deal with him," and it sounds like the org values inclusion. I'd give him a little grace and shrug off his weird manners unless he's a safety hazard or wasting intolerable amounts of supplies or something.
posted by momus_window at 10:53 AM on November 20, 2019
Most orgs have some kind of volunteer onboarding like this, even if it's pretty basic (surely volunteers are already signing liability waivers, at least?). It would be a good practice to do this for everyone.
New Guy wants to do the technical thing that the org needs. If your friend doesn't want to do training, that's one thing. If there are objective things that suggest New Guy can't learn it in a reasonable timeframe or do it safely, that's another. But it sounds like the problem "this guy is annoying and I don't want to deal with him," and it sounds like the org values inclusion. I'd give him a little grace and shrug off his weird manners unless he's a safety hazard or wasting intolerable amounts of supplies or something.
posted by momus_window at 10:53 AM on November 20, 2019
There is a long history of people of colour being expected to bend over backwards to modulate their tone in order to not offend white people's sensibilities. This is the background and the unvoiced expectation that informs both the new guy and the terribly uniform demographic of this organisation.
That is to say that if the conflict between your friend and new guy comes to a head and if your friend decides to leverage the organisation's need of his skills, (as in "I'm not prepared to work with this guy. If you want me to continue working with you, this guy needs to go),he may not have as much leverage as he thinks. There will be a lot of words spoken about how he needs to meet the guy halfway and work with him and cater to his sensibilities.
The situation is not as cut and dry as it would be if your friend were a white guy with a valued skill setting a professional boundary about another white guy. Your friend can and should assert himself - but it is quite possible that the organisation will not back him up as much as people here seem to expect. Even if they end up losing your friend over it.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:11 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
That is to say that if the conflict between your friend and new guy comes to a head and if your friend decides to leverage the organisation's need of his skills, (as in "I'm not prepared to work with this guy. If you want me to continue working with you, this guy needs to go),he may not have as much leverage as he thinks. There will be a lot of words spoken about how he needs to meet the guy halfway and work with him and cater to his sensibilities.
The situation is not as cut and dry as it would be if your friend were a white guy with a valued skill setting a professional boundary about another white guy. Your friend can and should assert himself - but it is quite possible that the organisation will not back him up as much as people here seem to expect. Even if they end up losing your friend over it.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:11 AM on November 20, 2019 [11 favorites]
Whoa. I'm kind of surprised by some of the reactions here, that anticipate that this guy is going to pose a legal problem in the future, or that he currently poses a problem to the functioning of the organization or its staff on the days that he's there.
Maybe ask him if he's feeling comfortable volunteering there, and if there's anything he would need to feel more comfortable. Come from a place of caring and concern, where the goal is to find the answer to the question "how do we include you better?". Maybe he'll disclose a disability, or that he lives with trauma and can't deal with loud noises. Maybe he won't. Don't assume he's just being entitled unless he really asks for special treatment. I guarantee there is more to this story.
People without great social skills don't get better when we treat them like a threat. It makes them feel more threatened and then they freeze and do more weird things because of the frozen feeling. Assume that diversity and tolerance will make your organization a better place not a worse one.
posted by unstrungharp at 2:13 PM on November 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Maybe ask him if he's feeling comfortable volunteering there, and if there's anything he would need to feel more comfortable. Come from a place of caring and concern, where the goal is to find the answer to the question "how do we include you better?". Maybe he'll disclose a disability, or that he lives with trauma and can't deal with loud noises. Maybe he won't. Don't assume he's just being entitled unless he really asks for special treatment. I guarantee there is more to this story.
People without great social skills don't get better when we treat them like a threat. It makes them feel more threatened and then they freeze and do more weird things because of the frozen feeling. Assume that diversity and tolerance will make your organization a better place not a worse one.
posted by unstrungharp at 2:13 PM on November 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
New guy sucks. Sounds manipulative. Doesn't sound neurodivergent. Dude is a giant red flag.
posted by chuntered inelegantly from a sedentary position at 4:53 PM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by chuntered inelegantly from a sedentary position at 4:53 PM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
I have had almost universally bad experiences being a young minority teaching older white people something simple but technical. I'm not an IT person, but have tried to help someone open an email system she didn't understand, teach keyboard shortcuts, etc.
Other kind people had to just tell me, "Hey just stop trying to help this person because they don't appreciate it and seem weirdly upset...."
The New Awkward Guy saying he feels attacked and doesen't like criticism is too close to home for me. He can't be taught and your friend should say he is not good with simple stresses and troubleshooting. The friend should have proof of technical foolishness just in case.
posted by Freecola at 5:04 PM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
Other kind people had to just tell me, "Hey just stop trying to help this person because they don't appreciate it and seem weirdly upset...."
The New Awkward Guy saying he feels attacked and doesen't like criticism is too close to home for me. He can't be taught and your friend should say he is not good with simple stresses and troubleshooting. The friend should have proof of technical foolishness just in case.
posted by Freecola at 5:04 PM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
Whoa. I'm kind of surprised by some of the reactions here, that anticipate that this guy is going to pose a legal problem in the future, or that he currently poses a problem to the functioning of the organization or its staff on the days that he's there.
Yeah, speaking as someone who is socially awkward I’m actually made a little nervous about the conclusions being drawn about what seem like a relatively few first interactions.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:15 PM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
Yeah, speaking as someone who is socially awkward I’m actually made a little nervous about the conclusions being drawn about what seem like a relatively few first interactions.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:15 PM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I dunno, if we can't agree on the same reality, I don't think we're ever gonna work well together, sorry. Same reality is required for most jobs.
posted by some loser at 6:25 PM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by some loser at 6:25 PM on November 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Like if I ask someone to set the safety cutoff at 15 PSIg or else the whole thing will blow up I NEED to know that 15PSIg is the same in your reality as it is in mine.
posted by some loser at 6:30 PM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by some loser at 6:30 PM on November 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
To me, setting aside issues of character, it doesn't much matter why he's acting this way--whether he's a budding prankster, an entitled doofus who doesn't like POC interacting with him from a position of superior knowledge, or has some kind of mental disability (though I can't say lecturing a POC at a predominantly white organization about the need to be more sensitive to "marginalized groups" is a great look regardless, especially as (c) doesn't necessarily exclude (b)). He can't cope with working with others around loud noises, which the work apparently requires (note that even when the friend explicitly stated that he wasn't angry, but was only raising his voice out of obvious physical necessity, the guy persisted in treating it as an inappropriate personal attack), and he can't cope with (accepting the friend's characterization of the interaction) non-abusive training/correction, which means he won't be able to cope with any negative feedback in the future. That means he's not going to be able to do the work. Even assuming it's that kind of issue, if you're not at a level of functioning where you can handle being corrected, you're not going to be able to perform most group tasks, and I don't think it's fair to delegate the work of training someone up in basic work skills to a random volunteer at a random organization who is already being resisted. (Note that if it's in part a sensory issue, this person apparently has no insight into it nor any strategies for accommodation lined up, but merely identifies it as being personally and inappropriately attacked, even after it's explained, and, again, if it's "social awkwardness," experiences criticism as a form of personal attack that must be protested. This is someone whose responses, if sincere, are so maladaptive (or jerkish, depending) that asking other people who just happen to be thrown in with him to try to figure out how to work with him without "attacking" him is a big request. What happens when the guy decides he's been being "attacked" and "mistrusted" for weeks and has had enough? Maybe he just quits; maybe you end up with a big interpersonal conflict on your hands.)
posted by praemunire at 7:41 PM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:41 PM on November 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
Expectations weren’t set correctly, but I empathize more w/ the experienced volunteer over the New Guy. Many paid jobs describe the work environment ( working outdoors, standing at a kiosk for the whole shift) and that seems like a good practice for the future so everyone knows what’s up.
posted by Freecola at 8:19 PM on November 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Freecola at 8:19 PM on November 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
Someone like this accusing you of stuff can really hurt your reputation. I'd just tell the volunteer coordinator and ED "hey, this guy kept accusing me of stuff. Im not comfortable working with him." Then walk off and let whoever is actually paid to be there deal with it.
posted by fshgrl at 9:57 PM on November 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 9:57 PM on November 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
I'm pretty dispirited to see responses here that basically say "well, if it's a disability and he's not figured it out by now it's his problem so screw him". Yet another example of the pervasive ableism I see everywhere, including on Metafilter.
posted by howfar at 1:28 AM on November 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by howfar at 1:28 AM on November 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
No, if it's a disability then you accommodate, obviously.
But the overwhelming majority of this kind of behaviour that I've encountered personally has not been due to disability, just overweening self-importance.
New Guy said, "When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." Friend said, "I'm not mad at you. It's just loud," while gesturing at his hearing protection. New Guy said, "That doesn't make it right."
...and the needle on the dickheadometer edges up one more notch.
If the initial complaint were in the useful, standard form of "When you X, I feel Y so I would prefer Z instead" then it would be edging downward instead, because that's information that both parties can work with collaboratively. But this isn't that. The Z part is missing, so it's just passive-aggressive attitude dumping.
There's no way on God's green Earth that this is the first loud environment that New Guy has ever been in, but he offers no preferred alternative to raised voices as a way to work around that loudness. That isn't "not figured it out by now", that's acting like the workplace totally revolves around him which yeah, screw that.
posted by flabdablet at 4:25 AM on November 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
But the overwhelming majority of this kind of behaviour that I've encountered personally has not been due to disability, just overweening self-importance.
New Guy said, "When you raise your voice to me, I feel attacked." Friend said, "I'm not mad at you. It's just loud," while gesturing at his hearing protection. New Guy said, "That doesn't make it right."
...and the needle on the dickheadometer edges up one more notch.
If the initial complaint were in the useful, standard form of "When you X, I feel Y so I would prefer Z instead" then it would be edging downward instead, because that's information that both parties can work with collaboratively. But this isn't that. The Z part is missing, so it's just passive-aggressive attitude dumping.
There's no way on God's green Earth that this is the first loud environment that New Guy has ever been in, but he offers no preferred alternative to raised voices as a way to work around that loudness. That isn't "not figured it out by now", that's acting like the workplace totally revolves around him which yeah, screw that.
posted by flabdablet at 4:25 AM on November 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
As someone looking into an ADD diagnosis in adulthood, how can you ever know the difference between "entitled" and "dealing with sensory issues in the best way he knows how" when *I* cannot tell the difference *in myself* between "lazy and irresponsible" and "executive functioning disorder"? Is there even a difference? I'm still not convinced, and I have a prescription for Adderall.
I am going to repeat what I said--you don't have to change your behavior, but the way to be a decent person is to treat him as though what he is asking for, as unusual as it may be, is legitimately what he needs. If he is asking for something you can't or don't feel comfortable giving, you can refuse him with the same politeness and sympathy you'd use to refuse a legitimate request that you just can't fulfill.
Like the guy who comes into the library and wants to take our copy of today's paper home. No, I can't give that to you. I don't know if you're a jerk trying to steal it, mentally ill and confused, an immigrant from somewhere obscure who has never been to the library before and doesn't understand the rules, or some combination of the above. And it doesn't matter! I'm going to kindly and politely forbid you from taking the newspaper with you, because I'm genuinely sorry to be the one to tell you this, but no, you can't have the paper.
If there's any chance that you're not a thief--even a slim one--I'm not going to treat you like a thief. And hey, if you are *definitely* a thief, the lowest-conflict way to get rid of you is also to not treat you like a thief. So I am never going to treat you like a thief.
Don't treat this guy like an entitled jerk. Treat him like someone who has very special requirements for getting through the day--like not being shouted at in any context--that you are sadly unable to accommodate.
posted by gideonfrog at 6:42 AM on November 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
I am going to repeat what I said--you don't have to change your behavior, but the way to be a decent person is to treat him as though what he is asking for, as unusual as it may be, is legitimately what he needs. If he is asking for something you can't or don't feel comfortable giving, you can refuse him with the same politeness and sympathy you'd use to refuse a legitimate request that you just can't fulfill.
Like the guy who comes into the library and wants to take our copy of today's paper home. No, I can't give that to you. I don't know if you're a jerk trying to steal it, mentally ill and confused, an immigrant from somewhere obscure who has never been to the library before and doesn't understand the rules, or some combination of the above. And it doesn't matter! I'm going to kindly and politely forbid you from taking the newspaper with you, because I'm genuinely sorry to be the one to tell you this, but no, you can't have the paper.
If there's any chance that you're not a thief--even a slim one--I'm not going to treat you like a thief. And hey, if you are *definitely* a thief, the lowest-conflict way to get rid of you is also to not treat you like a thief. So I am never going to treat you like a thief.
Don't treat this guy like an entitled jerk. Treat him like someone who has very special requirements for getting through the day--like not being shouted at in any context--that you are sadly unable to accommodate.
posted by gideonfrog at 6:42 AM on November 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
If he has a disability, your organization needs to make accommodations, yes. But note:
(a) IF he has a disability. The only way anyone can know is if this guy discloses that he has one. Right now, this is Schrodinger's Disability, and it's silly and patronizing to make accommodations that you can only guess at. Like, what if he actually has PTSD and you make accommodations based on the assumptions that he's on the Autism spectrum? Until he discloses, you can't make accommodations. You can only react to what he has communicated and meta-communicated, which is: he can't do this work under these conditions.
(b) YOUR ORGANIZATION needs to make accommodations. Not you personally! He has demonstrated an antipathy towards you. You are a person of color who might now be wrongly accused of anger, yelling, and inappropriate behavior by a white guy. You're allowed to draw some boundaries to protect yourself. You are not in a role where you are morally or professionally duty-bound to continue to interact with people (disabled or not) who are hostile to you. This is officially Not Your Problem. Just report the incident to your superiors -- in a neutral way is fine: "He thinks I was yelling at him even after I clarified I was merely talking loud enough to be heard, and he felt personally attacked when I offered guidance on how to do his work. I don't think he's a good fit. If you want to keep him, someone else should take over for me."
posted by MiraK at 7:23 AM on November 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
(a) IF he has a disability. The only way anyone can know is if this guy discloses that he has one. Right now, this is Schrodinger's Disability, and it's silly and patronizing to make accommodations that you can only guess at. Like, what if he actually has PTSD and you make accommodations based on the assumptions that he's on the Autism spectrum? Until he discloses, you can't make accommodations. You can only react to what he has communicated and meta-communicated, which is: he can't do this work under these conditions.
(b) YOUR ORGANIZATION needs to make accommodations. Not you personally! He has demonstrated an antipathy towards you. You are a person of color who might now be wrongly accused of anger, yelling, and inappropriate behavior by a white guy. You're allowed to draw some boundaries to protect yourself. You are not in a role where you are morally or professionally duty-bound to continue to interact with people (disabled or not) who are hostile to you. This is officially Not Your Problem. Just report the incident to your superiors -- in a neutral way is fine: "He thinks I was yelling at him even after I clarified I was merely talking loud enough to be heard, and he felt personally attacked when I offered guidance on how to do his work. I don't think he's a good fit. If you want to keep him, someone else should take over for me."
posted by MiraK at 7:23 AM on November 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
I am pretty sure that accusing people of wrong doing without cause is not a disability. People seem to be ignoring the damage that could be done to OPs friend if this man formally accuses him of being abusive towards volunteers, the accusations alone will follow him for years. And god forbid, something happens to him due to not observing safety rules.
For a non-paid position? Hell no, I wouldn't risk that. OPs friend is under not obligation to work with this guy, in fact he probably has an obligation to tell the org he's not safe to do that task. And organizations are under no obligation to let anyone volunteer just because they want to.
There is a time and place to work on social skills and anywhere you need to wear industrial hearing protection is NOT that place.
posted by fshgrl at 12:28 PM on November 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
For a non-paid position? Hell no, I wouldn't risk that. OPs friend is under not obligation to work with this guy, in fact he probably has an obligation to tell the org he's not safe to do that task. And organizations are under no obligation to let anyone volunteer just because they want to.
There is a time and place to work on social skills and anywhere you need to wear industrial hearing protection is NOT that place.
posted by fshgrl at 12:28 PM on November 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: Friend received the following series of emails:
1. From a board member, explaining that New Guy had asked for Friend's work schedule on his way out because he didn't think the two of them were "a good fit" and he'd "be more comfortable" continuing to learn the thing with someone else. The board was "concerned" and wanted to get Friend's side of the story, which Friend gave.
2. From several other board members, not all of whom appeared to understand that they were copying Friend, wondering whether it was possible for Friend to have misheard, given the background noise; whether it was possible for Friend to have misunderstood, given his non-native English; whether it was possible for Friend to "step back" from training of new volunteers, given how hard it was to find and retain volunteers able and willing to do the thing.
3. From Other Volunteer, warning everyone who does the thing that there was a new volunteer who wanted to learn the thing, who should not learn the thing, and who should instead be sent out to the front for a different work assignment.
Apparently, New Guy came back for another shift with Other Volunteer. Nobody really knows what happened. But he brought New Guy back to the front after an hour, took the coordinator aside, and said something like (accounts vary), "Can you find my friend something to do, alone but not unsupervised, and not anything that'll make us sad when he cocks it up, yeah?"
My friend hasn't heard anything more from the board since then. He's reconsidering how much he wants to spend his Sundays at this place.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 6:25 AM on December 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
1. From a board member, explaining that New Guy had asked for Friend's work schedule on his way out because he didn't think the two of them were "a good fit" and he'd "be more comfortable" continuing to learn the thing with someone else. The board was "concerned" and wanted to get Friend's side of the story, which Friend gave.
2. From several other board members, not all of whom appeared to understand that they were copying Friend, wondering whether it was possible for Friend to have misheard, given the background noise; whether it was possible for Friend to have misunderstood, given his non-native English; whether it was possible for Friend to "step back" from training of new volunteers, given how hard it was to find and retain volunteers able and willing to do the thing.
3. From Other Volunteer, warning everyone who does the thing that there was a new volunteer who wanted to learn the thing, who should not learn the thing, and who should instead be sent out to the front for a different work assignment.
Apparently, New Guy came back for another shift with Other Volunteer. Nobody really knows what happened. But he brought New Guy back to the front after an hour, took the coordinator aside, and said something like (accounts vary), "Can you find my friend something to do, alone but not unsupervised, and not anything that'll make us sad when he cocks it up, yeah?"
My friend hasn't heard anything more from the board since then. He's reconsidering how much he wants to spend his Sundays at this place.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 6:25 AM on December 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
"Can you find my friend something to do, alone but not unsupervised, and not anything that'll make us sad when he cocks it up, yeah?"
I am so stealing that. Well played, that man.
Thanks for the update, msp.
posted by flabdablet at 10:46 AM on December 19, 2019
I am so stealing that. Well played, that man.
Thanks for the update, msp.
posted by flabdablet at 10:46 AM on December 19, 2019
Wow, I struggle to see how new guy and (some) board members are not racist - I would something else more edifying to do with my Sundays, including counting hypothetical chickens.
posted by doggod at 12:38 PM on December 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by doggod at 12:38 PM on December 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
saddened but not surprised to hear this is how it went down. It's exactly what I was talking about when I responded above. The Board surely thought they were just being kind and patient in giving the new guy the benefit of the "doubt." The more salient fact was that they got their priorities entirely wrong, and in so doing flushed your friend's expertise and goodwill and years of experience down the toilet.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:29 PM on December 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:29 PM on December 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
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posted by rdr at 11:18 PM on November 19, 2019 [32 favorites]