How do I deal with the Queen Bee at my new job?
November 17, 2019 12:22 PM Subscribe
I’ve been at my new job for about 5 months now. While it’s better than my last job, it’s not exactly my “dream job.” I’m having trouble fitting in- The Queen Bee doesn’t seem to like me. She’s the boss’s “right hand” person, so I can’t go to the boss. What should I do? (Snowflakes inside....)
My main problem is with my coworker "Minerva". She seemed wary of me from the start. She makes conversation, but will ignore what I say and will pay attention to my other coworkers. She went out of her way to train the new male hires in the department, but seems cold and short with me. She doesn’t say “Good morning” to me in the morning and ignores me if I say it to her, but will greet everyone else.
She seems to think it’s odd that I'm not married with children. That's all she wanted to do, blah blah blah. She also gives me backhanded compliments like how I could be very pretty if I just wore more makeup, better clothes, exercised, etc.
She's very curt when I ask her work questions, yet warm and friendly with others. She'll ask me personal questions and it makes me uncomfortable. If I’m having trouble with something, she seems to take pleasure from it. It's a small office and we all sit close with one another, so I can't avoid her or distance myself from her. I know we'll never be best friends, but it is wearing on my patience.
She's twice my age, which doesn't matter to me, but maybe it does to her? She's also oddly possessive of our coworker "Fergus". I was laughing with Fergus and Minerva made a comment about how his "wife will get a complex." We were just laughing about something that happened that was work related. Otherwise we barely talk and when we do, it's about work.
Minerva is the boss's "right hand" person, so I don't feel comfortable going to the boss. I haven't been there long enough to know if there is anyone else to offer insight.
I've been in situations like this before, but never know what to do. Is there anything that I should be doing? Any thoughts? Any advice?
My main problem is with my coworker "Minerva". She seemed wary of me from the start. She makes conversation, but will ignore what I say and will pay attention to my other coworkers. She went out of her way to train the new male hires in the department, but seems cold and short with me. She doesn’t say “Good morning” to me in the morning and ignores me if I say it to her, but will greet everyone else.
She seems to think it’s odd that I'm not married with children. That's all she wanted to do, blah blah blah. She also gives me backhanded compliments like how I could be very pretty if I just wore more makeup, better clothes, exercised, etc.
She's very curt when I ask her work questions, yet warm and friendly with others. She'll ask me personal questions and it makes me uncomfortable. If I’m having trouble with something, she seems to take pleasure from it. It's a small office and we all sit close with one another, so I can't avoid her or distance myself from her. I know we'll never be best friends, but it is wearing on my patience.
She's twice my age, which doesn't matter to me, but maybe it does to her? She's also oddly possessive of our coworker "Fergus". I was laughing with Fergus and Minerva made a comment about how his "wife will get a complex." We were just laughing about something that happened that was work related. Otherwise we barely talk and when we do, it's about work.
Minerva is the boss's "right hand" person, so I don't feel comfortable going to the boss. I haven't been there long enough to know if there is anyone else to offer insight.
I've been in situations like this before, but never know what to do. Is there anything that I should be doing? Any thoughts? Any advice?
The only success I’ve had in dealing with a coworker like this is due to chance, in the sense that if an opportunity comes along where you and she both know that you have a chance to screw her over that you could take without any risk, and you don’t take it, she will start to trust you.
It may not seem like it but all the things she’s doing give away that she perceives you as a threat to her, not the other way around. She is nervous about you. She may think she achieved her status as the right-hand man by charming the boss and worry that you will displace her. The shitty things she suggests about your worth (looking pretty, being a wife and mother) are how she feels about herself to some extent, which is why you being younger could feel threatening.
None of that is just (let alone professional) and that doesn’t mean you should pity her or cater to her games. But understanding what she’s feeling can only help you, however you choose to use that knowledge. (Talking to her about this directly will only backfire, however.)
posted by sallybrown at 12:59 PM on November 17, 2019 [7 favorites]
It may not seem like it but all the things she’s doing give away that she perceives you as a threat to her, not the other way around. She is nervous about you. She may think she achieved her status as the right-hand man by charming the boss and worry that you will displace her. The shitty things she suggests about your worth (looking pretty, being a wife and mother) are how she feels about herself to some extent, which is why you being younger could feel threatening.
None of that is just (let alone professional) and that doesn’t mean you should pity her or cater to her games. But understanding what she’s feeling can only help you, however you choose to use that knowledge. (Talking to her about this directly will only backfire, however.)
posted by sallybrown at 12:59 PM on November 17, 2019 [7 favorites]
This would be a great question for Ask a Manager (or her weekend open threads for work-related questions).
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
if you do ask for work related advice from her as drgail suggests you should do it (or follow up on it) via email so that if (IME it's when, not if) she gives you deliberately wrong or bad advice to get you in trouble, you can be like "sorry, i was just doing as minerva told me to do" and she can't claim you misunderstood her.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:21 PM on November 17, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:21 PM on November 17, 2019 [15 favorites]
I've worked with older women in the office, some of whom were nurturing and mentoring, and some who were a bit of both. Gatekeeping, putting me in my place, etc. You say she is your co-worker? Are you doing equal jobs? Is the ratio of men to women very high? As in, you and Minerva are the only women there?
It could be a dynamic where she feels she's been the mother/manager to a lot of men, and you show up, young and fresh and competent, and she has to gatekeep you and put you in your place to hold onto her place. You're upsetting her apple cart, so to speak, her life is built upon being the manager in this place, and you are the interloper. You haven't done anything wrong, and obviously you were hired with your skills in mind, but you just happen to be female and yes, she is threatened by you.
What I did in this situation was take another job. My Minerva was nice, but in a frenemy sort of way, and I was recruited by another division of my company, and taken out to lunch and made an office administrator in charge of lots of things. They flew me to St. Louis and put me up at at nice hotel and had me train with another woman, who took me out to a nice dinner or two, and I took the job to get away from Minerva.
You can try to be nice to her, and pretend to take her advice, but I don't think she will ever give up her gatekeeper status. If you boss likes it that way, well, congratulations: you've got yourself Joan in 1950's Mad Men. I left my job and moved on, and I later advanced due to my work ethic and skills.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
It could be a dynamic where she feels she's been the mother/manager to a lot of men, and you show up, young and fresh and competent, and she has to gatekeep you and put you in your place to hold onto her place. You're upsetting her apple cart, so to speak, her life is built upon being the manager in this place, and you are the interloper. You haven't done anything wrong, and obviously you were hired with your skills in mind, but you just happen to be female and yes, she is threatened by you.
What I did in this situation was take another job. My Minerva was nice, but in a frenemy sort of way, and I was recruited by another division of my company, and taken out to lunch and made an office administrator in charge of lots of things. They flew me to St. Louis and put me up at at nice hotel and had me train with another woman, who took me out to a nice dinner or two, and I took the job to get away from Minerva.
You can try to be nice to her, and pretend to take her advice, but I don't think she will ever give up her gatekeeper status. If you boss likes it that way, well, congratulations: you've got yourself Joan in 1950's Mad Men. I left my job and moved on, and I later advanced due to my work ethic and skills.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:02 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately, if this is obvious and stable in a workplace, some unknown but possibly verrrrry large proportion of the bosses and men like it that way. Enough to be unhappy if you do anything but either fold to Minerva, or replace her and then act like her. It's less painful in the moment to blame her instead of everyone else, but if you're missing the real power structure, you'll make missteps.
Praising her advice for helping you do your job well should help -- I'd be really careful about saying anything that could be twisted into you needing her, though. But I'd be looking elsewhere.
posted by clew at 4:32 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
Praising her advice for helping you do your job well should help -- I'd be really careful about saying anything that could be twisted into you needing her, though. But I'd be looking elsewhere.
posted by clew at 4:32 PM on November 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
This isn't really a dynamic you can beat. If this isn't your 'dream job', then keep looking for the 'dream job' and send out resumes. When you get the interview and they ask you why you are leaving current job, just say - 'this job is ok, but your job? Dream job."
posted by Toddles at 10:35 PM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 10:35 PM on November 17, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm going to make a bunch of generalizations because this has happened to me a few times but here goes nothing:
In my experience in many low-wage non-professional jobs, Minerva-types are miserable people, and the only way they feel anything anymore is by putting you down and making you uncomfortable because you are still young and full of the spark of life that they have long lost. They are often a sign of a dysfunctional work environment as they are drawn to them and thrive in them. A good work place will generally filter out Minervas in the interview process. I've been able to (sort of) turn around one Minerva and make things "work" between us, so it does happen.
Also In my experience, Minerva's will try to underhandedly get you fired or force you to quit by making the working environment terrible. So be ready for that. And start job hunting.
Overtime I have learned to spot potential Minerva's while interviewing for jobs, and I have not pursued those jobs. Usually they are a red herring for a bad working environment. They are usually older (40+), burnt out, and exude misery (the fact that you say she seemed wary of you from the start makes me think you were able to pick up on this vibe). Young, naive people are an easy target for them to unload their anger at the world.
I do not advise being supplicant or asking her for advice, because she sounds like a bully and this will only empower her IMO. Stand your ground, and maybe (using good judgment) use some forced humor to diffuse tense situations like "Ah yes, I'm sure Fergus's wife TOTALLY wants in on our conversation about fax machines! You're so funny Minerva haha!" I've done this at least for my own sanity when dealing with ridiculous people, but I find it also kind of puts them in their place/makes them realize they're being a wierdo.
What MIGHT work is asking about her children/her life. My sister gave me this advice and I was amazed how well it worked with one 40 something mother in my last office, I'll call her Suzy. Suzy became more tolerable after I started asking about her daughter and pretending that I was interested in Suzy's life. Suzy randomly confessed some personal, intense family drama to me at lunch one day. She was still annoying but it took the edge off her hostile behavior.
My ultimate advice is not to put too much energy in "dealing" with it, because I don't see you, fresh-face newbie, winning favor of the hostile right-hand Queen Bee to the boss. Unless you find a crack in her armor, and she ends up being a Suzy. Otherwise I say: Use humor, ask Minerva about her children, and job search.
posted by Finch at 7:30 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
In my experience in many low-wage non-professional jobs, Minerva-types are miserable people, and the only way they feel anything anymore is by putting you down and making you uncomfortable because you are still young and full of the spark of life that they have long lost. They are often a sign of a dysfunctional work environment as they are drawn to them and thrive in them. A good work place will generally filter out Minervas in the interview process. I've been able to (sort of) turn around one Minerva and make things "work" between us, so it does happen.
Also In my experience, Minerva's will try to underhandedly get you fired or force you to quit by making the working environment terrible. So be ready for that. And start job hunting.
Overtime I have learned to spot potential Minerva's while interviewing for jobs, and I have not pursued those jobs. Usually they are a red herring for a bad working environment. They are usually older (40+), burnt out, and exude misery (the fact that you say she seemed wary of you from the start makes me think you were able to pick up on this vibe). Young, naive people are an easy target for them to unload their anger at the world.
I do not advise being supplicant or asking her for advice, because she sounds like a bully and this will only empower her IMO. Stand your ground, and maybe (using good judgment) use some forced humor to diffuse tense situations like "Ah yes, I'm sure Fergus's wife TOTALLY wants in on our conversation about fax machines! You're so funny Minerva haha!" I've done this at least for my own sanity when dealing with ridiculous people, but I find it also kind of puts them in their place/makes them realize they're being a wierdo.
What MIGHT work is asking about her children/her life. My sister gave me this advice and I was amazed how well it worked with one 40 something mother in my last office, I'll call her Suzy. Suzy became more tolerable after I started asking about her daughter and pretending that I was interested in Suzy's life. Suzy randomly confessed some personal, intense family drama to me at lunch one day. She was still annoying but it took the edge off her hostile behavior.
My ultimate advice is not to put too much energy in "dealing" with it, because I don't see you, fresh-face newbie, winning favor of the hostile right-hand Queen Bee to the boss. Unless you find a crack in her armor, and she ends up being a Suzy. Otherwise I say: Use humor, ask Minerva about her children, and job search.
posted by Finch at 7:30 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
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posted by DrGail at 12:49 PM on November 17, 2019 [33 favorites]